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I think you miss the point. The bible doesn't not encourage blowing up government buildings, in fact Paul the apostle encouraged Christians to respect the government authorities over them and to see them as their protectors.
Also this did not mean that Paul propogated the adherence or devotion to governments or entities of that government that ethically or morally violated God's laws.
Do we have wide scale bombing of planned parenthood clinics, or killing of their personel? Why, cause the biblical God says that it's murder.
Many a biblical Christian joined the 6 million Jews, Gypsies, retarded, mentally ill, etc. in the Nazi death camps.
Corey Tanbaum a biblical Christian as well as her sister spent years in Nazi concentration camps because they hid Jews from the Nazis. I don't remember any notable Muslims doing likewise for their Christian or Jewish counterparts?
Islam, says that their belief system and adherence supercedes any and all governmental authority, unless it's based on Islamic principles, not necessarily moral, or humanitarian principles.
This means that if and when there is a large enough populous within a "said" country of Islamic adherents, then they have the right via the Koran to change even a Democratically formed government into an Islamic Theocracy.
Say all you want about the dangerous Pat Robertson and the now dead Jerry Falwell, their only desire was that their country embrace Christian principles that enhanced democracy, liberty, and fairness to all human beings, unborn and born alike.
It is Christian based cultures that have brought about equality of races, and sexes, as no other cultures have.
The Koran still sees the female human as chattle, and non-Muslims as potential enemies, and basically worthless in the eyes of their god/Allah.
***
When you defend yourself by saying I know many good Muslims, actually your mis-titleing them. They are good people, but not good Muslims, and in order to be good and humanitarian, and tolerant, they must throw aside the main thrust of Mohammed's teachings, that is their "truth". So in a sense, good Muslims as we see them in the U.S. or in any part of the world where they are basically tolerating the rest of us, is actually an act of hypocrisy on their part. Just wait until there is a majority of Muslims in any countyr, and you will see a diminishing of the moderate or P.C. or tolerant, or good Muslim according to your liberal, sensitive, parameters, and philosophy of life and fair-play.
*****
Now bring on the hate stuff, the name calling, the intolerance accusations. It's expected.
Truth hurts, denial hurts worse in the end.
I agree with chips here. The god described by you christians, is a bit of a malignantly self indulged cosmic bully. One who cares more about human sacrifice and worship than anything else? If I was omnipotent, I would not give a shit what tiny little humans think or do. We are like roaches compared to the size and complexity of the universe.
Eightball must have forgot the HISTORY of christianity, as well as other nations that are christian dominated besides the US.
There is so much Christian terrorism in indea with over 20 different religious/ethnic cleansing groups who parade around and force christianity on indian civilians. Just because its not happening as much In the United States does not mean its not happening. So many people are too focused on the US, as if the united state is the first and only nation ever founded on christianity. Its ignorant.
Second, look at the history of christianity. The crusades, the reformation, the spanish inquisition. All very genocidal and violent wars in the name of the bible and christianity. Try sharing your opinion about anything, back then eightball or chips.
You can pick pieces from Christian books and interpret them in ways to suggest that God wants you to impose Christianity on people. You can pick pieces from the Bible and interpret them to suggest that God wants you to be peaceful with those who choose to not believe.
Likewise, you can do the same with the Muslim books. People will interpret selected religious books to suit their own prejudices and agendas.
Just wait until there is a majority of Muslims in any countyr, and you will see a diminishing of the moderate or P.C. or tolerant, or good Muslim according to your liberal, sensitive, parameters, and philosophy of life and fair-play.
First came Christianity, then, - when the eternally warring, petty European fiefdoms coalesced into nations, came white European "racial" superiority
Religionless people tend to be egoless people.
Yup, That God Fearing Soviet Union comes instantly to MIND. Or Communist China. And of course there is peace loving egoless North Korea.
Can a good Christian be a good American?
Theologically - no. Because his allegiance is to God, the God of Abraham
Religiously - no. Because no other religion is accepted by God except Christianity
Scripturally - no. Because his allegiance is to the Ten Commandments and the Bible
Geographically - no. Because his allegiance is to the local Mega-Church, tithes weekly
Socially - no. Because his allegiance to Christianity forbids him to make friends with members of other apostate, heretical religions.
Politically - no. Because he must submit to the televangelist, who teach annihilation of Homosexyuls, libruls and other agents of the anti-Christ.
Domestically - no. Because he is instructed to maintain his wife in a state of submission and pregnancy.
Intellectually - no. Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is not based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be the absolute and incontrovertible word of God .
Philosophically - no. Because Christianity and the Bible do not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Christianity cannot co-exist. Every Christian government we have ever had has been either dictatorial or autocratic
Spiritually - no. Because when we declare "one nation under God," the Christian God is whatever the demagogue of the hour declares him (her/it) to be according to whatever half -baked point they're trying to make
Therefore after much study and deliberation....perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL CHRISTIANS in this country. They obviously cannot be both "good" Christians and good Americans.
Have a nice day!
And don't many Christians put God before country?
The godhead has was replaced with the state.
So you have a nice day and perhaps you should actually learn about what your attacking.Can a good Christian be a good American?
Theologically - no. Because his allegiance is to God, the God of Abraham
Which is NO different then Liberals placing Party before Country
Religiously - no. Because no other religion is accepted by God except Christianity
Simply not true. A true Christian will not do anything except provide information to non believers in the hopes of showing them what they consider to be the correct path. No stigma, no action is required by God except to inform
Scripturally - no. Because his allegiance is to the Ten Commandments and the Bible
Another ignorant attempt to bad mouth with no basis in fact. The laws of this land are required to be followed by any true Christian just as Jesus commands. And what about the 10 commandments is against the laws of this land again?
Geographically - no. Because his allegiance is to the local Mega-Church, tithes weekly
Another mischaracterization, Faith and belief are individual RIGHTS protected under this Government. And most of your supposed Mega churches are not in anyway against the Government, in fact your beloved Democratic party is chock full of Christians, to include religious leaders and churches.
Socially - no. Because his allegiance to Christianity forbids him to make friends with members of other apostate, heretical religions.
An outright lie. Jesus commands Christians to love their neighbors and to pass the word on, if by no other means then by example. Making friends is a great way to provide by example. Provide even one text from the New testament that supports this claim.
Politically - no. Because he must submit to the televangelist, who teach annihilation of Homosexyuls, libruls and other agents of the anti-Christ.
Another outright lie. Jesus commands acceptance and tolerance of all. Only God is allowed to Judge. And no one that is a Christian is required to believe any Televangelist unless they personaly believe he is providing the word of God. And again Jesus commands Christians to obey the laws and the Governments of man.
Domestically - no. Because he is instructed to maintain his wife in a state of submission and pregnancy.
Another outright lie. You are of course aware of the New Testament?
Intellectually - no. Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is not based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be the absolute and incontrovertible word of God .
Jesus COMMANDS believers to obey and follow the laws of the Government they fall under
Philosophically - no. Because Christianity and the Bible do not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Christianity cannot co-exist. Every Christian government we have ever had has been either dictatorial or autocratic
Simply not true, the statement about religious Government IS true but the rest is not. But then God nor Jesus command us to live ina government run by religion. In fact Jesus commands us to obey and follow the laws of the "man's" Government we find ourselves under, with only a few exception. And none of them apply to the United States.
Spiritually - no. Because when we declare "one nation under God," the Christian God is whatever the demagogue of the hour declares him (her/it) to be according to whatever half -baked point they're trying to make
The only half baked garbage here is what you have been spewing in this post
Therefore after much study and deliberation....perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL CHRISTIANS in this country. They obviously cannot be both "good" Christians and good Americans.
Outright LIE.
Have a nice day!
This is something I've wondered about for some time now: How & why do the Muslims hate us & everyone else so much? Doesn't their God teach them to love?
Can a good Muslim be a good American?
I sent that question to a friend who worked in Saudi Arabia for
20 years.
The following is his reply:
Theologically - no. Because his allegiance is to Allah, the moon god of Arabia.
Religiously - no. Because no other religion is accepted by his Allah except Islam (Quran, 2: 256)
Scripturally - no. Because his allegiance is to the five pillars ; of Islam and the Quran (Koran).
Geographically - no. Because his allegiance is to Mecca, to which he turns in prayer five times a day.
Socially - no. Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews.
Politically - no. Because he must submit to the mullah (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and Destruction of America, the great Satan.
Domestically - no. Because he is instructed to marry four women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34).
Intellectually - no. Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.
Philosophically - no. Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran do &g t; not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic
Spiritually - no. Because when we declare "one nation under God," the Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in The Quran's 99 excellent names .
Therefore after much study and deliberation....perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country. They obviously cannot be both "good" Muslims and good Americans.
Call it what you wish....it's still the truth.
If you find yourself intellectually in agreement with the above statements, perhaps you will share this with your friends. The more who understand this, the better it will be for our country a nd our future.
Pass it on, Fellow Americans.
The war is bigger than we know or understand
Can a good Christian be a good American?
Theologically - yes-
Religiously - yes.
Scripturally - yes.
Geographically - yes.
Socially - yes.
Politically - yes. Domestically - yes.
Intellectually - yes.
Philosophically - yes.
Spiritually - yes.
Have a nice day!
The two of you obviously have no idea what a true Christian believes. Yes there are a couple sects of Christians that do not participate at all in "man's" government, but they are hardly a threat since they DO NOT participate.
Jesus teaches that one should obey the laws of the Country one is in and do as the Government commands. The exception of course would be if the Government ordered you to break God's commandments. Which is no different then one of you Liberals believing you should not support the war in Iraq cause you do not believe in it.
As for putting Country first, wouldn't that make you one of those "evil" Nationalists that some of you have portrayed as Nazi's?
RGS sez:
Which is NO different then Liberals placing Party before Country
I wish someone would explain how democrats seeking to win elections because they believe that America would be a better place if their platform and agenda were advanced is any different from republicans seeking and believing the same thing?
Maybe it's because they "key in" on biblical Christians to find or point fault at what they perceive as wrong in this country.
Maybe if they would "lay off" going after folks that want to live with ethical integrity according to what many of our country's founding fathers lived by, there wouldn't be such a disparity of feeling, or debate.
If we could keep this an non-personal, issues based debate without pointing the finger at a large voting population that isn't trying to establish a theocracy, and does love their country, but also follows principles that are of the bible.
Christians aren't trying to overthrow the government. In fact to do so would be sin, unless the government is corporately attempting to violate God's moral/ethical laws. The bible will reveal that His ethics are not radical, just common sense.
I think that Christians get a bad rap because they aren't stopping munitions trains, aren't blocking major commute routes during commute hours to protest some alleged inhumanity, or injustice. Christians in most cases try very hard to work within the bounds of the law of he land in order to influence government to what they believe is ethical.
There are instances of civil disobedience by Christians, i.e. the early civil rights movements where many strong biblical christians did violate unethical southern states segregation laws.
Also many Christian's passions of the unborn human is another area. They believe that the life of an unborn baby supercedes man made laws that degrade that human life to an unviable mass of unsoulical molecules.
Seems that Christians often are on the side of respect and integrity for humanity, but are maligned for not violating laws in order to force an outcome in their favor. I guess that would put most in the conservative category.
Christians don't believe in blowing up utility stations to protest utility company monopolies(Weather Under Ground of the 60's-70's). Christians don't beleive in torching Hummer dealerships in order to save the planet from diminishing fuel resources. Christians don't believe in blocking oil tankers from off loading oil that is the life line of their nation and also employs jobs for fellow citizens who need to put food on their families tables.
Christians want to manage the planet wisely, but not at the expense of putting people out of work, and causing human and familial misery, and more welfare burden to society.
Christians also realize that government is not the enemy of mankind if it is ethical, and abides by and understands that it is an arm of God's care and protection of the human species.
The Christian respects the flag, as a symbol of an idea, an experiment in establishing a government of the people, for the people, under God's umbrella of care.
Republicans want change, so do democrats. It's often how the change is carried out that brings the tensions. One party seems to follow, the adage that any means may be used and is justified to reach that goal (civil disobiedience). The other generally follows the proceedural methods established by written rule of law ( unless there is a ethical issue).
******
If the conservative experiences the loss of his candidate's or his party's ruling majority, he/she generally doesn't see this as "valium" time, or time to change citizenship, but see's it as a time to rethink how it was lost, and what must be done to re-energize and renew possible wrong approaches and thinking on their part. Philosophically, they analyze and try to see where they are not making inroads or in touch with the populous. Where are they right, and where are they wrong?
For the Democrates, a loss, means, "Don't they understand what's right? Has the whole country gone insane?" "Fight on for the principle, the must be convinced of how "off" they are." Any means is necessary, as our goal or agenda must win.
Both sides obviously have strong points that don't change. One thinks the other is wrong and vice versa. The interesting part is how each side views their beliefs. Who is the more flexible or open to respectful debate, and possible change.
I've gone through a lot of change politically from my late teens until the present, roughly 40 years later. I've mellowed in some areas and gotten more stringent in others.
I see the plight of the hungry and those in this country in less of a black and white vison as I did back in my idealistic days as a conservative. I still believe that too much help is not unlike the enablement that encourages folks to stay in a condition of helplessness. Those of us who have recovered from addictions know well what enabling is all about. Also you AA folks know what I mean. People need encouragement. They also need to feel or have the responsibility to receive charity at times of great need, but also the inner integrity to feel or want to give back to the society that has given them a "chance" to get a new start.
I think that at times us conservatives have been too black and white........and also the liberals should admit that too.
There is a common ground that isn't being a moderate necessarily, but looks at the human soul/spirit, as a species made in God's image. Someone that we haven't walked a mile in their shoes, yet often we act or make statements about them as though we know all that is right and correct for their betterment of life.
If we want to help people and our from both political spectrums, maybe we should just start thinking of ways to help folks in a way that instills pride back into them where it has been sucked out by continuous programs that don't promote individuals innate abilities to be creative and contributive members of society. I.E... ineviatably to become for the first time or once again, tax payers, parents, and good role models for their progeny.
Even though, and I know this will shake up a lot of liberals; conservatives actually, per capita give more to charity than liberals, this doesn't mean that someone has won the "goodness" or "sensitivity" contest towards suffering humanity over another group.
We need to dump the old politics aside and take Mother Teresa's approach. Just make ourselves available and turn off the tongue, and let the body start fullfilling or carrying out all the actions of our soul. I don't abide by Streisands politics, but the song, "people who need people, are the luckiest people in the world.", epitomizes to me where the rubber meets the road.
Liberals, conservatives...........We need to show up once a year at a soup kitchen with your children in tow, and volunteer to serve meals, clean toilets, apply bandages, bath someone.
Let our love of the downtrodden have "legs and arms or physical action" not just a lot of talk about whose the most sympathetic in the right way.
Do you realize that if just each of us donated just one can of food, or a frozen turkey, not just on Christmas or Thanksgiving, that there would be more food than rescue missions, and other charitable organizations could handle.
People who are having a hard time getting started in life do much better at looking at future goals for themselves to better themselves in society, and for themselves when they are healthy, well fed, and know that society has a corporate, and personal concern for them. We human beings need and can't survive without acceptance. We are social creatures. We get ourselves into all kinds of tough spots. Sometimes by our doing and sometimes not.
I don't care how secure your 401 K makes you, any of us can end up on the street. Life is not predictable. Some of us have a better innate strength to pull ourselves up than others. Some of us are caught up in "victimology" and need a boost or a minor loving kick in the pants to start crawling out of that rut. One way or another, the downtrodden need mentors. People that are willing to stand the body odor, the frustrations of repeat addicts, and downright frustrating responses from those that have a "give up" philosophy of life. They need patience, acceptance of who they are, not of what they've done or not done. God's love that looked past the outer and saw the inner man. It is from the inner man that the outer man shows his true colors.
It's so easy for all of us conservatives and liberals to pat ourselves on our backs and show everyone how we give to this or that, but it insulates us from being in the trenches and connecting with that humanity that we are trying to help.
Think Mother Teresa. I don't care if she was Catholic, Bhuddist, Hindo, etc.... I don't think that most of the time she thought in those terms. She died close to the time of Princess Dianna's death, yet Mother Teresa's contribution to society and humanity got 1/10th of 1 percent of the media coverage that the Princess received with her humanitarian visits to poor villages in various parts of the world. I'm not knocking Dianna's contributions, but society placed her on a humanitarian, pedestal, and Mother Teresa, just died in the slums of India caring for the forgotten, and the lower class of society. If those tons of flowers at the gates of Buckingham palace had been turned into contributions to the starving and sick of India in some kind of relief donation, what an honor that would have given Princess Dianna's death and Mother Teresa's ministry to the forgotten of humanity.
I'm not Catholic, but this lady is a Saint. She put the rubber to the road of what her faith and life was made of. As James said the bible, my faith is revealed in my works, "how about yours?".
I really think that God looks down from heaven and just shakes his head and grieves, as we cackle and argue over whose the most humanitarian, or loving, or philosophically the most astute. All along, part of humanity goes on, digging in dumpsters, and living like today is just one more day of hell on earth. We go home, teach our children to be sensitive to humanity, say our bedtime prayers, bless uncle X and auntie Y, and help the needy, and help so and so with this or that, and bless my dreams and sleep.
I exposed my kids to humanity when they were very young. I also exposed them to to the bible too when they were very young. I exposed them to a man that was born in a dirty old manger, who expressed his love to the unloveables of society of His contemporary time. I have three sons who have compassion on humanity. They also know what forgiveness is. They don't judge people by their philosophys or their physical appearance, but by their innate inner most being, that may or may not have been damaged for years.
We are all damaged goods, in one way or another. Once we realize this, we are ready to extend some viable and true help to others that suffer greater than ourselves, physically, mentally, emotionally.......etc...
The two of you obviously have no idea what a true Christian believes. Yes there are a couple sects of Christians that do not participate at all in "man's" government, but they are hardly a threat since they DO NOT participate.
Jesus teaches that one should obey the laws of the Country one is in and do as the Government commands. The exception of course would be if the Government ordered you to break God's commandments. Which is no different then one of you Liberals believing you should not support the war in Iraq cause you do not believe in it.
As for putting Country first, wouldn't that make you one of those "evil" Nationalists that some of you have portrayed as Nazi's?
Yup, That God Fearing Soviet Union comes instantly to MIND. Or Communist China. And of course there is peace loving egoless North Korea.
) Maybe if they would "lay off" going after folks that want to live with ethical integrity according to what many of our country's founding fathers lived by, there wouldn't be such a disparity of feeling, or debate.
Seems that Christians often are on the side of respect and integrity for humanity, but are maligned for not violating laws in order to force an outcome in their favor. I guess that would put most in the conservative category.
Christians don't believe in blowing up utility stations to protest utility company monopolies(Weather Under Ground of the 60's-70's). Christians don't beleive in torching Hummer dealerships in order to save the planet from diminishing fuel resources. Christians don't believe in blocking oil tankers from off loading oil that is the life line of their nation and also employs jobs for fellow citizens who need to put food on their families tables.
Christians want to manage the planet wisely, but not at the expense of putting people out of work, and causing human and familial misery, and more welfare burden to society.
Christians also realize that government is not the enemy of mankind if it is ethical, and abides by and understands that it is an arm of God's care and protection of the human species.
The Christian respects the flag, as a symbol of an idea, an experiment in establishing a government of the people, for the people, under God's umbrella of care.
Republicans want change, so do democrats. It's often how the change is carried out that brings the tensions. One party seems to follow, the adage that any means may be used and is justified to reach that goal (civil disobiedience). The other generally follows the proceedural methods established by written rule of law ( unless there is a ethical issue).
If the conservative experiences the loss of his candidate's or his party's ruling majority, he/she generally doesn't see this as "valium" time, or time to change citizenship, but see's it as a time to rethink how it was lost, and what must be done to re-energize and renew possible wrong approaches and thinking on their part. Philosophically, they analyze and try to see where they are not making inroads or in touch with the populous. Where are they right, and where are they wrong?
For the Democrates, a loss, means, "Don't they understand what's right? Has the whole country gone insane?" "Fight on for the principle, the must be convinced of how "off" they are." Any means is necessary, as our goal or agenda must win.
I think that at times us conservatives have been too black and white........and also the liberals should admit that too.
There is a common ground that isn't being a moderate necessarily, but looks at the human soul/spirit, as a species made in God's image. Someone that we haven't walked a mile in their shoes, yet often we act or make statements about them as though we know all that is right and correct for their betterment of life.
Even though, and I know this will shake up a lot of liberals; conservatives actually, per capita give more to charity than liberals, this doesn't mean that someone has won the "goodness" or "sensitivity" contest towards suffering humanity over another group.
Liberals, conservatives...........We need to show up once a year at a soup kitchen with your children in tow, and volunteer to serve meals, clean toilets, apply bandages, bath someone.
Do you realize that if just each of us donated just one can of food, or a frozen turkey, not just on Christmas or Thanksgiving, that there would be more food than rescue missions, and other charitable organizations could handle.
