Can A Muslim Be A Good American?

[RetiredGySgt]

Got anything to say about a poster who takes an internet chain email and tries to pass it off as his/her own?

Got anything to say to the likes of Truthmatters for his spam and failure to actually provide his OWN words to his spam? Remind me again how bad RSR is.

How about Maineman and his bully tactics, name calling, personal insults and lies if anyone dare disagree with his enlightened position? Or Larkinn and his game with words and pretending if he twists meanings he wins some kind of points in a debating society. The there is Edward and his ignorant rants? Or Chips? How about them?

In fact have you EVER met a liberal you would admonish for ANY reason?

 

[maineman]

RGS sez:

"Until the Islamic religion has a change in their beliefs the religion is a threat."

I would suggest that Islam, like Christianity, has, for the vast majority of its adherents, already changed its beliefs.

RGS bases his condemnation of Islam on a few passages from the Koran. One could condemn Christians - AND CERTAINLY JEWS - for numerous passages in the Old Testament. One only needs to look to the Crusades or to the Spanish Inquisition, or to Pope Pius XII and his contact with the Third Reich - to name just a few highlights - to condemn Christianity.

In fact, the vast vast vast majority of the world's Muslims are NOT committed to violence, but to peace.

And again...if we truly believe that the best way to get a relatively small group of radical Muslims to stop wanting to kill us...is to kill Muslims, then we had better get started because there are SIX BILLION of them around the globe.

Shall we start here in America? Would all you bizarre xenophobes recommend that we round up all Muslim citizens in America and just preemptively slaughter them, because it is only a matter of time before they try to slaughter "us"?

You people are truly frightening.

 

[maineman]

How about Maineman and his bully tactics, name calling, personal insults and lies if anyone dare disagree with his enlightened position?

I don't bully....my language is coarse, I will admit, but I spent a lifetime with sailors. I may insult people on here, but never preemptively, and I have NEVER lied.

This, from the guy who started an entire thread in the taunting zone just to whine and call ME names, by the way!

 

[DeadCanDance]

Got anything to say to the likes of Truthmatters for his spam and failure to actually provide his OWN words to his spam? Remind me again how bad RSR is.

How about Maineman and his bully tactics, name calling, personal insults and lies if anyone dare disagree with his enlightened position? Or Larkinn and his game with words and pretending if he twists meanings he wins some kind of points in a debating society. The there is Edward and his ignorant rants? Or Chips? How about them?

In fact have you EVER met a liberal you would admonish for ANY reason?

First, what's that got to do with a thread, where a dude posted an internet chain email, and passed it off as his own? Don't you see that as dishonest at worst, and bad internet ettiquette at best?

Secondly, I've known maineman for years on messageboards. And I've never seen him directly insult anyone with foul mouthed language, unless they insulted him first.

And yes, I have admonished maineman, for an error he made on another board. An error he apolgized for. An error that doesn't concern you.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

First, what's that got to do with a thread, where a dude posted an internet chain email, and passed it off as his own? Don't you see that as dishonest at worst, and bad internet ettiquette at best?

Secondly, I've known maineman for years on messageboards. And I've never seen him directly insult anyone with foul mouthed language, unless they insulted him first.

And yes, I have admonished maineman, for an error he made on another board. An error he apolgized for. An error that doesn't concern you.

Sure thing. I guess your defense is " golly, I never noticed that" Stick with it.

 

[Larkinn]

Dangerous as in right now? No BUT dangerous in the sense their entire religious goal is total assimilation OR death to all that do not convert. THAT IS IN THE Koran. Muslims are warned by their religious leaders to NEVER make friends with non muslims only to tolerate them. Non Muslims are second class citizens at best in any Muslim Country BECAUSE of the religion and what it teaches.

And Muslims, like those of any religion, pick and choose which part of their holy book to believe and not believe. Other religions have things in their books just as intolerant.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

And Muslims, like those of any religion, pick and choose which part of their holy book to believe and not believe. Other religions have things in their books just as intolerant.

Keep saying that, it may make you feel better, but it sure as hell won't keep you safe or anyone else. Provide me a list of world wide terror organizations that are Christian. Provide me with a list of High level Christian religious leaders that advocate murder in the name of God. That advices their followers to riot and murder anyone that disagrees with them. That proclaims suicide bombers will be rewarded by God in heaven.

Let me help you. There is a Croat High Cleric that is supposedly Christian that advocated murder by his church.... Guess what happened? He was OPENLY condemned by all the other Christian religious leaders that heard about it. And there were no " Buts" to justify his call.

Find me a passage in the New Testament that calls on followers of God to subjegate the entire world by force and either convert or kill everyone. I do not think there is even one of those in the old testament, but I could be wrong.

 

[ReillyT]

Gunny, why cant people stay on topic, this thread has nothing to do with christians, and yet, every thread about muslims, we have people excusing the bad behavior of terrorists by comparing christians, who are not a global threat, but are globally persecuted to radical muslims.

Are some people on this board, really that ignorant, or just that stupid.

Making an argument with hypotheticals is a common practice, not only in everyday life, but also in the law. That is why you invariably see mention of Christians in discussing Muslims.

Are some people on this board really that ignorant, or just that stupid (not sure what you believe to be the difference b/w these two here) to not understand this?

 

[ReillyT]

I think there is a bigger issue here. Which is, people on the left side of the specrum, calling anyone who saying one bad word about muslims or islam a biggot, while at the same time, disparing jewish and christian values, every day.

That is hypocritical.

Well, I don't believe that is not exactly accurate. I disagree with some evangelical Christian beliefs and practices, especially with regard to their rigid (in my opinion) attitudes towards sex. I will even go so far as to say that I dislike some of the more extreme evangelical preachers who are constantly talking about this group condemned to hell or that group condemned to hell. I think the belief that the rapture is going to happen any minute is just plain moronic.

That said, however, with a few exceptions, I don't hold any personal animus towards devout Christian persons. I have some friends who are very religious and we believe differently, but I know them to be kind and compassionate people.

So there you have it. Those are my beliefs and I think they would be roughly echoed by almost every liberal person on the board, and in fact the great majority of liberal people in the country. If you want, you can tell me I am a bigot for these beliefs, although I don't quite see it.

If you look below, this is what I think a real bigot looks like. In fact, he goes beyond mere bigotry into an attitude, which, if taken seriously and carried out, would represent genocide.

Yes, the only good Muslim is a dead one.

Do you see the difference now?

 

[Gunny]

Got anything to say about a poster who takes an internet chain email and tries to pass it off as his/her own?

When you can't attack the post, by all means attack the poster.

 

[Gunny]

I don't bully....my language is coarse, I will admit, but I spent a lifetime with sailors. I may insult people on here, but never preemptively, and I have NEVER lied.

This, from the guy who started an entire thread in the taunting zone just to whine and call ME names, by the way!

Hes started the thread there at my suggestion, to get the pissing contest out of the main forums.

 

[ReillyT]

When you can't attack the post, by all means attack the poster.

These things are not exclusive of one another.

 

[DeadCanDance]

When you can't attack the post, by all means attack the poster.

I didn't realize that, on this board, pointing out that someone trying to pass off another person's writing as their own - without attribution to the original source - was considered "attacking" the poster. On other boards, its considered bad ettiquitte to take the writings of others and try to pass them off as your own.

As for the content of the post, I said it was ridiculously bigoted, and had been debunked elsewhere on the internet.

First, this "friend" identified in the email, who allegedly lived for 20 years in saudi arabia, does not in fact know much about islam. Most of what he/she alleges is demonstrably false.

-Allah is not a "moon God". Islam is a monotheistic religion, just like judaism and christianity. All three faiths worship the same God: the God of Abraham. Muslims trace their ancestory back to Abraham, just like jews and christians. Muslims revere the prophets Moses, Abraham, and Jesus, just like christians do. The difference being that - like the Jews - they do not consider Jesus to be divine. They consider him to be a great prophet of God. But a human prophet.

Second, the emailer from "saudi arabia" makes another huge mistake. He refers to "mullahs" -- who teach annihilation of Israel and Destruction of
America, the great Satan.. This is assinine. There are no mullahs in Saudi Arabia - or elsewhere in the ARAB world. Mullah is a persian word, and religious construct, which exists in Iran and part of the shia muslim world. "Mullah" has not relationship to saudi arabia. Sunni arab muslims have Imams, not 'mullahs".

So this "expert" from saudi arabia, clearly is a hoax, with no knowledge of islam.


Last, if Bush fans and GOPers want to continue to insult american muslims with this type of bigotry, don't let me stand in your way: american muslims used to be a reliable GOP voting bloc. They used to vote overwhelmingly republican. Which makes sense, since many of them are small business entrepenuers, a traditional GOP demographic. However, since 2004, primarily due to GOP bigotry, american muslims are voting overwhelming Democratic. If the GOP wants to throw away several million votes in national presidential races, then carry on. The thinly disguised GOP racism towards hispanic americans has already made the GOP reviled in much of the american hispanic community. If the GOP wants to play insult games, and throw away millions of potential voters, don't let me stand in the way.

 

[Gunny]

I didn't realize that, on this board, pointing out that someone trying to pass off another person's writing as their own - without attribution to the original source - was considered "attacking" the poster. On other boards, its considered bad ettiquitte to take the writings of others and try to pass them off as your own.

As for the content of the post, I said it was ridiculously bigoted, and had been debunked elsewhere on the internet.

First, this "friend" identified in the email, who allegedly lived for 20 years in saudi arabia, does not in fact know much about islam. Most of what he/she alleges is demonstrably false.

-Allah is not a "moon God". Islam is a monotheistic religion, just like judaism and christianity. All three faiths worship the same God: the God of Abraham. Muslims trace their ancestory back to Abraham, just like jews and christians. Muslims revere the prophets Moses, Abraham, and Jesus, just like christians do. The difference being that - like the Jews - they do not consider Jesus to be divine. They consider him to be a great prophet of God. But a human prophet.

Second, the emailer from "saudi arabia" makes another huge mistake. He refers to "mullahs" -- who teach annihilation of Israel and Destruction of
America, the great Satan.. This is assinine. There are no mullahs in Saudi Arabia - or elsewhere in the ARAB world. Mullah is a persian word, and religious construct, which exists in Iran and part of the shia muslim world. "Mullah" has not relationship to saudi arabia. Sunni arab muslims have Imams, not 'mullahs".

So this "expert" from saudi arabia, clearly is a hoax, with no knowledge of islam.


Last, if Bush fans and GOPers want to continue to insult american muslims with this type of bigotry, don't let me stand in your way: american muslims used to be a reliable GOP voting bloc. They used to vote overwhelmingly republican. Which makes sense, since many of them are small business entrepenuers, a traditional GOP demographic. However, since 2004, primarily due to GOP bigotry, american muslims are voting overwhelming Democratic. If the GOP wants to throw away several million votes in national presidential races, then carry on. The thinly disguised GOP racism towards hispanic americans has already made the GOP reviled in much of the american hispanic community. If the GOP wants to play insult games, and throw away millions of potential voters, don't let me stand in the way.

So far, all I have in an unsubstantiated allegation by you that plagarism is involved. If you would like to report a post by proper means, click on the little flag at the top right of your box and report away. Please include whatever substantiation you have.

Bitching about it in a public forum is NOT the right way.

 

[Kagom]

Provide me a list of world wide terror organizations that are Christian.

Just to try and humor you as best I can:

* Army of God - An American pro-life terrorist group. [2]

* God's Army - A terrorist group in Myanmar.[2]

* Nagaland Rebels (1947-present) Active in predominantly Christian state in Hindu majority India. Involved in several bombings in 2004. Goal: Independence from India after annexing parts of neighboring Indian states and Burma if it has Christian majority.[2]

* National Liberation Front of Tripura (1989-present) A group that seeks the independence of Tripura from India to create a Christian Tripura.[2]

* Phineas Priesthood An American based Christian Identity movement. [2]

* National Democratic Front of Bodoland, active terrorist in the Indian state of Assam, involved in the murder of Bineshwar Brahma, prominent Hindu Bodo activist.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_organisations#Christian

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Just to try and humor you as best I can:

* Army of God - An American pro-life terrorist group. [2]

* God's Army - A terrorist group in Myanmar.[2]

* Nagaland Rebels (1947-present) Active in predominantly Christian state in Hindu majority India. Involved in several bombings in 2004. Goal: Independence from India after annexing parts of neighboring Indian states and Burma if it has Christian majority.[2]

* National Liberation Front of Tripura (1989-present) A group that seeks the independence of Tripura from India to create a Christian Tripura.[2]

* Phineas Priesthood An American based Christian Identity movement. [2]

* National Democratic Front of Bodoland, active terrorist in the Indian state of Assam, involved in the murder of Bineshwar Brahma, prominent Hindu Bodo activist.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_organisations#Christian

None of which have any power outside their own demented little areas AND are condemned by the Religion when they spout off. Something Islamic terrorists do not have to worry about, even when some half hearted condemnation is provide against some specific act it is ALWAYS accompanied by a " BUT" and an explanation how basicly terror is exceptable when used in the "right" way.

But do keep trying.

 

[Larkinn]

None of which have any power outside their own demented little areas AND are condemned by the Religion when they spout off. Something Islamic terrorists do not have to worry about, even when some half hearted condemnation is provide against some specific act it is ALWAYS accompanied by a " BUT" and an explanation how basicly terror is exceptable when used in the "right" way.

But do keep trying.

http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php

Please look at each of those examples and show where it is "always" accompanies by a "but" and an explanation of how basicly terror is exceptable (acceptable is what you mean) when used in the right way.

So basically the difference is that one of the religions is better at it. So you are basically condemning them for being competent.

 

[Kagom]

None of which have any power outside their own demented little areas AND are condemned by the Religion when they spout off. Something Islamic terrorists do not have to worry about, even when some half hearted condemnation is provide against some specific act it is ALWAYS accompanied by a " BUT" and an explanation how basicly terror is exceptable when used in the "right" way.

But do keep trying.

Hey, I said I was just going to attempt to humor you to the best of my ability

 

[jillian]

Yes, the only good Muslim is a dead one.

That's fucking sick. Seriously. And your troll thread is no different from the crap people spew saying Jews have "dual loyalty".

Very, very sad and pathetic.

One can easily ask the same perverse questions you did about any religious group. I have a neighbor who is a Jehovah's witness. I was out gathering signatures to put our local judicial candidates on the primary ballot and she declined to sign (which is her right, of course), saying "we already voted for our King and he'll be back around soon". She then gave me literature to "educate" me.

Does her allegience to her religion and refusal to engage in something worldly like voting make her a bad American? No. I think it's odd. But it isn't my place to decide the beliefs of others....

luckily it isn't your place either.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

That's fucking sick. Seriously. And your troll thread is no different from the crap people spew saying Jews have "dual loyalty".

Very, very sad and pathetic.

One can easily ask the same perverse questions you did about any religious group. I have a neighbor who is a Jehovah's witness. I was out gathering signatures to put our local judicial candidates on the primary ballot and she declined to sign (which is her right, of course), saying "we already voted for our King and he'll be back around soon". She then gave me literature to "educate" me.

Does her allegience to her religion and refusal to engage in something worldly like voting make her a bad American? No. I think it's odd. But it isn't my place to decide the beliefs of others....

luckily it isn't your place either.

Jehoviah Witness's do not participate in "man's" government, they do not vote nor sign petitions. So in a sense she is a "bad" citizen, but not dangerous.