Can A Muslim Be A Good American?

[RetiredGySgt]

Then there are those violent apples that you are likely to find in any religion. There are the David Koresh sects who would rather die fighting than obey a basic warrant. You have other violent Christians too who don’t seem to care about the law of the land. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorist

Koresh never broke a law AND responded to every peaceful summons he EVER received. But hey don't let facts get in your way. I mean what moron plans an armed raid ona compound of ARMED people that EXPECT the Government to attack them? Then loads up in plain view of the town that is known to warn them of trouble coming? I mean heaven forbid they just send an agent out to serve a warrent, as you imply.

I mean what would you do if armed men attacked you for no apparent reason? Further there is absolutely not one shred of evidence any member of that compound fired a single shot that morning. NO Government vehicles had any holes in them, the only agents shot were shot after crawling through a window and their own fellow agent then sprays the window with automatic fire.

You want to make a point, please do so with the skin heads and racists white supremecy groups that claim to be Christian and were and are a threat.

 

[maineman]

RGS sez:

You want to make a point, please do so with the skin heads and racists white supremecy groups that claim to be Christian and were and are a threat.


That IS the point. skinheads and white supremacy racists have as much in common with mainsteam American Christians as Al Qaeda has with mainsteam middle eastern muslims - or AMERICAN muslims, for that matter

 

[mattskramer]

Koresh never broke a law AND responded to every peaceful summons he EVER received. But hey don't let facts get in your way. I mean what moron plans an armed raid ona compound of ARMED people that EXPECT the Government to attack them? Then loads up in plain view of the town that is known to warn them of trouble coming? I mean heaven forbid they just send an agent out to serve a warrent, as you imply.

No. He did not honor every summons. These are the facts:

http://www.usdoj.gov/05publications/waco/wacoexec.html

On February 28, 1993, at approximately 9:30 a.m. Central Time, agents of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF) came under heavy gunfire while attempting to execute an arrest warrant for Vernon Howell, otherwise known as David Koresh. The warrant authorized Koresh's arrest for federal firearms and explosives violations. An accompanying search warrant authorized the ATF agents to search the compound where Koresh and his followers, known as the Branch Davidians, lived near Waco, Texas. Four ATF agents were killed and sixteen were wounded during the shootout with the Branch Davidians on February 28. Additionally, a number of individuals inside the compound were killed and injured; however, the number killed by ATF gunfire cannot be precisely determined.

It is the responsibility of law enforcement to carry out the law. The ATF was carrying out its job regardless of the brainwashing and paranoia at the compound.

I mean what would you do if armed men attacked you for no apparent reason? Further there is absolutely not one shred of evidence any member of that compound fired a single shot that morning. NO Government vehicles had any holes in them, the only agents shot were shot after crawling through a window and their own fellow agent then sprays the window with automatic fire.

They had a reason to attack. These men had official uniforms. They announced their presence. They were attempting to serve a warrant. Koresh refused to cooperate, so the ATF entered as best it could – even if it meant going through a window. There is no reason to believe that the ATF was doing anything wrong. All that Koresh had to do was have the ATF identify itself, take the warrant, and allow them to do their job. That is what I would have done, while a family member called a local attorney.

Also see the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Koresh#Accusations_of_child_abuse_and_statutory_rape

 

[RetiredGySgt]

No. He did not honor every summons. These are the facts:

http://www.usdoj.gov/05publications/waco/wacoexec.html



It is the responsibility of law enforcement to carry out the law. The ATF was carrying out its job regardless of the brainwashing and paranoia at the compound.



They had a reason to attack. These men had official uniforms. They announced their presence. They were attempting to serve a warrant. Koresh refused to cooperate, so the ATF entered as best it could – even if it meant going through a window. There is no reason to believe that the ATF was doing anything wrong. All that Koresh had to do was have the ATF identify itself, take the warrant, and allow them to do their job. That is what I would have done, while a family member called a local attorney.

Also see the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Koresh#Accusations_of_child_abuse_and_statutory_rape

ABSOLUTE HOGWASH. They came loaded for bear they wanted an armed raid because it would look good on the evening news. Koresh came to the door when they ask for him. Then the atf stormed the building.

Isn't it interesting that the front door that had no holes in it from inside the compound came up missing when an independent investigation was launched?

Isn't it interesting that the original tape of the raid, only shown once, clearly shows 3 or 4 atf agents enter a second story window and an ATF agent still on the roof then sprays the window with automatic weapons fire?

Isn't it interesting that prior to the raid the compound had several people living there with federal licenses to buy and sell firearms including automatic weapons and these licenses were secretly revoked prior to the raid?

The ATF did not go to that compound with an army of heavily armed agents hidden in trailers to peacefully arrest anyone. The reality is that EVERY single time Koresh was asked to come to town by the sheriff he did. That the Sheriff routinely drove alone to the compound to talk to or ask Koresh to come to town. That said sheriff offered to summon Koresh to town so the ATF could "arrest" him away from the compound and was told no?

Isn't it interesting that the Government found it necassary to rush a wooden compound full of women and children with tear gas and 2 Tanks, killing almost everyone in the compound, destroying any evidence that might have been harmful to the Governments case in the process?

No one at the compound had ever been a threat to anyone. And they were only made into a threat by an unnecassary raid by armed ATF agents out to make a name for themselves on the nightly news to counter several recent raids by the DEA.

 

[maineman]

the thread is about Muslims making good americans, and when RGS got his prejudices exposed, he quickly hijacked the thread and fiXated on Koresh.

coincidence? I think not.

 

[Larkinn]

ABSOLUTE HOGWASH. They came loaded for bear they wanted an armed raid because it would look good on the evening news. Koresh came to the door when they ask for him. Then the atf stormed the building.

Isn't it interesting that the front door that had no holes in it from inside the compound came up missing when an independent investigation was launched?

Isn't it interesting that the original tape of the raid, only shown once, clearly shows 3 or 4 atf agents enter a second story window and an ATF agent still on the roof then sprays the window with automatic weapons fire?

Isn't it interesting that prior to the raid the compound had several people living there with federal licenses to buy and sell firearms including automatic weapons and these licenses were secretly revoked prior to the raid?

The ATF did not go to that compound with an army of heavily armed agents hidden in trailers to peacefully arrest anyone. The reality is that EVERY single time Koresh was asked to come to town by the sheriff he did. That the Sheriff routinely drove alone to the compound to talk to or ask Koresh to come to town. That said sheriff offered to summon Koresh to town so the ATF could "arrest" him away from the compound and was told no?

Isn't it interesting that the Government found it necassary to rush a wooden compound full of women and children with tear gas and 2 Tanks, killing almost everyone in the compound, destroying any evidence that might have been harmful to the Governments case in the process?

No one at the compound had ever been a threat to anyone. And they were only made into a threat by an unnecassary raid by armed ATF agents out to make a name for themselves on the nightly news to counter several recent raids by the DEA.

Isn't it interesting that you base which government conspiracies you believe based on whether the administration is Democrat or Republican?

 

[tigerbob]

Devout muslims, have a higher chance of becoming lunatics and terrorists

I'm not sure I understand the distinction between that and this...

This is a very fine line here superlative, between an observant muslim, and a fundamentalist muslim.

Where's the dividing line vetween devout and observant?

I take your point regarding fundamentalism. Not sure I understand the other comparison though.

 

[eots]

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