Can a good Muslim be a good American?

[MissileMan]

You are jumping to conclusions. In a perfect world, understanding would always lead to a peaceful solution. Perhaps it is even so in this world, we will never know because people are just too damn quick to pull the trigger.

Now back to the original issue. Hitler persuaded Germany to kill millions of Jews. Do Germans naturally hate Jews? Of course not. Hatred of a race/ethnicity could never be genetic. When Hitler was gone, the problem of Germans killing Jews died as well. Hindsight allows us to understand what risk factors made it possible for the Germans to support Hitler.

The middle east is in the same boat as Germany prior to WWII. They are poor, they have been victimized, they have been betrayed, they are a prideful people, and they are looking for those people who can give them glory. Unfortunately, they have placed their trust in terrorist leaders and others of that nature--manipulators.

So tell me what any campaign in the middle east will accomplish if we do not give significantly better the lives of the people there. Any sort of an "us vs. them" mindset will not at all lead the world to safety.

While I don't consider it the only course of action at the moment, at the rate things are going, we are going to be forced to get rid of them or they will surely be the death of all of us.

 

[1549]

Germany is land, geography. The problem with hating Jews neither started, nor ended with Hitler. He played on something already there and offered a 'solution' to the problem. Ahem, that is why he referred to it as the 'final solution.'

Let's look at your next point and go a little deeper, before proceeding:

Do tell me more, please.

Risk factor: Germany was in a state of complete and utter turmoil. I said 'factors' previously, making notion to everything that utter turmoil is composed of. Inflation, poverty, humiliation, etc. They needed a scapegoat, Hitler gave them one.

The jews were vulnerable for three reasons: anti-semitism is older than the hills; they are associated with money and fincances, and finances in Germany were bad; they were different.

Again, hindsight allows us to see the entire picture: Germans in despair, manipulator offered hope and scapegoat; the Germans bought it in mass.

 

[Annie]

Risk factor: Germany was in a state of complete and utter turmoil. I said 'factors' previously, making notion to everything that utter turmoil is composed of. Inflation, poverty, humiliation, etc. They needed a scapegoat, Hitler gave them one.

The jews were vulnerable for three reasons: anti-semitism is older than the hills; they are associated with money and fincances, and finances in Germany were bad; they were different.

Again, hindsight allows us to see the entire picture: Germans in despair, manipulator offered hope and scapegoat; the Germans bought it in mass.

So, you think that Germany of 1928 is comparable to Iran, Iraq, Syria, the Palestinians, UAE, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Egypt, Indonesia, Malaysia-I'm sure I'm forgetting some, 2006? On all those issues?

 

[1549]

While I don't consider it the only course of action at the moment, at the rate things are going, we are going to be forced to get rid of them or they will surely be the death of all of us.

I am 100% positive that there will be no 'getting rid of'. We will fuck around over there for a while and eventually things will probably cool off for a decade or two. Then maybe flare up again. This pattern will continue until who knows when. Then an asteroid will hit the Earth and it wipe out either their hemisphere or ours. At that moment the problem will be solved.

 

[1549]

So, you think that Germany of 1928 is comparable to Iran, Iraq, Syria, the Palestinians, UAE, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Egypt, Indonesia, Malaysia-I'm sure I'm forgetting some, 2006? On all those issues?

Yes, in a lot of ways. As a rule, the desperate mass will buy into those that seem to be able to promise hope. No matter how extreme the measures. Terrorist leaders seem to offer hope, pride, and a scapegoat.

The classic come back is always "but not all terrorists come from the poor mass". This is true. In the middle east, the terrorist leaders win over the poor with an ultra-conservative mantra. Professors in the region also tend to be conservative. This links some of the educated with the leading manipulators and the poor 'proletariat'.

You seem to doubt the link between a vulnerable Germany and a vulnerable middle east. The only wild-card is religion. Hitler did not do his deeds in the name of a religion, however he talked of Germany as if it was something much larger than just a country. He gave it Godly connotations, men were to die for it, children were to worship it, it was bigger than all. Terrorists treat Islam in an eerily similar manner.

 

[007]

Yes, in a lot of ways. As a rule, the desperate mass will buy into those that seem to be able to promise hope. No matter how extreme the measures. Terrorist leaders seem to offer hope, pride, and a scapegoat.

The classic come back is always "but not all terrorists come from the poor mass". This is true. In the middle east, the terrorist leaders win over the poor with an ultra-conservative mantra. Professors in the region also tend to be conservative. This links some of the educated with the leading manipulators and the poor 'proletariat'.

You seem to doubt the link between a vulnerable Germany and a vulnerable middle east. The only wild-card is religion. Hitler did not do his deeds in the name of a religion, however he talked of Germany as if it was something much larger than just a country. He gave it Godly connotations, men were to die for it, children were to worship it, it was bigger than all. Terrorists treat Islam in an eerily similar manner.

Maybe your summation is true, that many muslims follow terrorists due to brainwashing, or promises. But why then, if there are "good" muslims, no total outrage from the muslim community as a whole condeming the actions of terrorists?

I'll tell you why... partly because of FEAR, that they'll be targeted and killed to silence them, and partly because they silently AGREE with the terrorists. It IS the kuran that COMMANDS them the KILL us.

 

[Boronali]

I'll tell you why... partly because of FEAR, that they'll be targeted and killed to silence them, and partly because they silently AGREE with the terrorists. It IS the kuran that COMMANDS them the KILL us.

Hi,
I don't think so...Muslim are not terrorists except a few part... Most part of them just try to live normally.
Terrorism is sincerily condamned by many of them... The Islam is a religion of understanding and forgive.
But I can understand your point of view cause US (I'm not living there) is actually THE target cause you are the most powerfull....but please don't think that all muslims are guilty...

PS: excuse me for the mistakes

 

[007]

Hi,
I don't think so...Muslim are not terrorists except a few part... Most part of them just try to live normally.
Terrorism is sincerily condamned by many of them... The Islam is a religion of understanding and forgive.
But I can understand your point of view cause US (I'm not living there) is actually THE target cause you are the most powerfull....but please don't think that all muslims are guilty...

PS: excuse me for the mistakes

ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF VIOLENCE with the stated goal of WORLD DOMINATION by any means. Anyone equipped with eyes and ears will by this time know the DIFFERENCE between what muslims SAY and what they DO, the difference most times spells D-E-A-T-H to those unfortunate to be branded by islam and muslims as "kuffar" or "dhimmis" - "unbelievers" - which basically means everyone that is not muslim.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

More discussion:

http://msgboard.snopes.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=print_topic;f=9;t=002198

 

[roomy]

They cannot be anything other than Muslim, nationality doesn't enter the equation where these fucking maniacs are concerned.The world belongs to Allah and it is their duty as good muslims to make sure it conforms to his will, stopping at nothing to reach this conclusion.The world will never be safe while they think we are afraid, we need to make them afraid, very afraid.

 

[JeffWartman]

ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF VIOLENCE with the stated goal of WORLD DOMINATION by any means. Anyone equipped with eyes and ears will by this time know the DIFFERENCE between what muslims SAY and what they DO, the difference most times spells D-E-A-T-H to those unfortunate to be branded by islam and muslims as "kuffar" or "dhimmis" - "unbelievers" - which basically means everyone that is not muslim.

Anyone equipped with eyes and reasonable comprehension skills would eventually see that the quotes about killing nonbelievers are often taken out of context by people who claim to speak for all of Islam, terroists like Osama bin Laden for example, and others. The Quaran has violent parts to it, but so does the Christian bible. Furthermore, the Quaran also contains passages, left out by extremists, about showing mercy and compassion for the enemy.

The problem isn't Islam -- it's organized religion in general. Theres not much difference between the Islam of today and the Christianity of the crusades, and there isn't much more violence in the Quaran than in the Christian bible.

More people have been killed, throughout history, in the name of religion than any other cause.

All this reminds me of an Alan Dershowitz point, during a speech, in which he quotes a letter to Dr. Laura:

"Dear Dr. Laura, Thank you so much for trying to educate people regarding God's law. I have learned a great deal from you, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:12 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

"But I need some advice from you regarding some of the other specific laws and how best to follow them. When I burn a bull on the alter as a sacrifice, I know it creates a 'pleasing odor for the Lord' (Leviticus 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. How should I deal with this? I would like to sell my daughter into slavery as suggested by Exodus 21:7. What do you think a fair price would be? I know I'm allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Leviticus 19:24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but some women take offense. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I obliged morally to kill him myself, or may I hire a hit man? I know you have studied these things extensively, and so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging." (http://www.renewamerica.us/archives/speeches/00_09_27debate.htm)

An interesting thought into the purpose of organized religion.

 

[Annie]

They cannot be anything other than Muslim, nationality doesn't enter the equation where these fucking maniacs are concerned.The world belongs to Allah and it is their duty as good muslims to make sure it conforms to his will, stopping at nothing to reach this conclusion.The world will never be safe while they think we are afraid, we need to make them afraid, very afraid.

The words of an ignorant European.

 

[Annie]

Anyone equipped with eyes and reasonable comprehension skills would eventually see that the quotes about killing nonbelievers are often taken out of context by people who claim to speak for all of Islam, terroists like Osama bin Laden for example, and others. The Quaran has violent parts to it, but so does the Christian bible. Furthermore, the Quaran also contains passages, left out by extremists, about showing mercy and compassion for the enemy.

The problem isn't Islam -- it's organized religion in general. Theres not much difference between the Islam of today and the Christianity of the crusades, and there isn't much more violence in the Quaran than in the Christian bible.

More people have been killed, throughout history, in the name of religion than any other cause.

All this reminds me of an Alan Dershowitz point, during a speech, in which he quotes a letter to Dr. Laura:

"Dear Dr. Laura, Thank you so much for trying to educate people regarding God's law. I have learned a great deal from you, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:12 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

"But I need some advice from you regarding some of the other specific laws and how best to follow them. When I burn a bull on the alter as a sacrifice, I know it creates a 'pleasing odor for the Lord' (Leviticus 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. How should I deal with this? I would like to sell my daughter into slavery as suggested by Exodus 21:7. What do you think a fair price would be? I know I'm allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Leviticus 19:24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but some women take offense. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I obliged morally to kill him myself, or may I hire a hit man? I know you have studied these things extensively, and so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging." (http://www.renewamerica.us/archives/speeches/00_09_27debate.htm)

An interesting thought into the purpose of organized religion.

Equivalency is not going to work. Are there deranged Jews? Yes. Deranged Christians? Yes. Deranged Buddhists? Probably. Do the mainstream of these religions condone their acts or attempts? No. Do they condemn them? Yes. Do they want them held accountable? Yes.

Islam? All polling says, No.

 

[007]

Anyone equipped with eyes and reasonable comprehension skills would eventually see that the quotes about killing nonbelievers are often taken out of context by people who claim to speak for all of Islam, terroists like Osama bin Laden for example, and others. The Quaran has violent parts to it, but so does the Christian bible. Furthermore, the Quaran also contains passages, left out by extremists, about showing mercy and compassion for the enemy.

The problem isn't Islam -- it's organized religion in general. Theres not much difference between the Islam of today and the Christianity of the crusades, and there isn't much more violence in the Quaran than in the Christian bible.

More people have been killed, throughout history, in the name of religion than any other cause.

All this reminds me of an Alan Dershowitz point, during a speech, in which he quotes a letter to Dr. Laura:

"Dear Dr. Laura, Thank you so much for trying to educate people regarding God's law. I have learned a great deal from you, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:12 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

"But I need some advice from you regarding some of the other specific laws and how best to follow them. When I burn a bull on the alter as a sacrifice, I know it creates a 'pleasing odor for the Lord' (Leviticus 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. How should I deal with this? I would like to sell my daughter into slavery as suggested by Exodus 21:7. What do you think a fair price would be? I know I'm allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Leviticus 19:24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but some women take offense. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I obliged morally to kill him myself, or may I hire a hit man? I know you have studied these things extensively, and so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging." (http://www.renewamerica.us/archives/speeches/00_09_27debate.htm)

An interesting thought into the purpose of organized religion.

If the islamic jihadists all laid down their weapons and disbanded never to kill another soul, the world would virtually be at peace. All the violence and killing and terrorism is driven by the kuran, and commanded by allah. It will never end until those who follow this bullshit are all DEAD, DEAD, DEAD.

 

[Gunny]

Equivalency is not going to work. Are there deranged Jews? Yes. Deranged Christians? Yes. Deranged Buddhists? Probably. Do the mainstream of these religions condone their acts or attempts? No. Do they condemn them? Yes. Do they want them held accountable? Yes.

Islam? All polling says, No.

The naked truth, staring mattskramer and the rest of the islamo-apologistas in the face.

 

[Annie]

If the islamic jihadists all laid down their weapons and disbanded never to kill another soul, the world would virtually be at peace. All the violence and killing and terrorism is driven by the kuran, and commanded by allah. It will never end until those who follow this bullshit are all DEAD, DEAD, DEAD.

No, there are others that claim to be Christian, Jews, atheists, agnostics, Buddhists, Hindus, etc. they would kill, in the name of their 'religion', but would not be supported, but condemned. There is one difference.

 

[007]

No, there are others that claim to be Christian, Jews, atheists, agnostics, Buddhists, Hindus, etc. they would kill, in the name of their 'religion', but would not be supported, but condemned. There is one difference.

True... but put all those you just mentioned together, and you still wouldn't have the amount of killing equaled by the islamo-jihadists.

 

[Nuc]

If the islamic jihadists all laid down their weapons and disbanded never to kill another soul, the world would virtually be at peace. All the violence and killing and terrorism is driven by the kuran, and commanded by allah. It will never end until those who follow this bullshit are all DEAD, DEAD, DEAD.

Pardon?

The world was seldom, if ever, at peace before Islam.

Human nature is the driving force in the lack of peace on this planet. Unfortunately Islam appeals to and exploits the worst of human nature.

Nevertheless, eliminate Islam and there will still be violence and hatred.

 

[Annie]

Pardon?

The world was seldom, if ever, at peace before Islam.

Human nature is the driving force in the lack of peace on this planet. Unfortunately Islam appeals to and exploits the worst of human nature.

Nevertheless, eliminate Islam and there will still be violence and hatred.

Not trying to steal your thunder or anything, but how do you propose peace, when it more than obvious tha conflict is the norm?

 

[007]

Pardon?

The world was seldom, if ever, at peace before Islam.

Human nature is the driving force in the lack of peace on this planet. Unfortunately Islam appeals to and exploits the worst of human nature.

Nevertheless, eliminate Islam and there will still be violence and hatred.

Other than little mediocre things, all I ever hear about night after night after night, is all the violence in the middle east, all pertaining to muslims and islam. Sure, maybe it wasn't always that way, but it is now. The islamo-jihadists dominate the world violence scene right now. They're responsible for the killing of more "innocent" men, women and children than this generation has ever seen. And where does it stop? HOW do we stop it?

We know for DAMN sure that you are NOT going to REASON with these blood thirsty fanatics. DEATH is the answer. They want to kill us, because we're infidels, and we NEED to kill them, simply before they kill us. IF we want to survive this jihad that is.