Californians vote in favor of renewable energy

[OKTexas]

I'll be honest, I don't understand what's so bad about putting money into alternative/renewable energy. I mean, all forms of energy, before they become "big", so to speak, have to start somewhere right?

Do I agree with the state doing it themselves? Yes, and no. I believe that states should pay more attention to alt. energy, but I believe that the biggest breakthroughs in it will come from the private sector.

But at least they're trying, unlike Georgia D:

The problem is that electricity produced by solar/wind power is more expensive than electricity produced from fossil fuels so when the government has to provide subsidies to make it competitive, the jobs and tax revenues that subsidy money would have produced if invested elsewhere has to be counted as part of the cost of the electricity. In prosperous times we can absorb these costs, but in lean times such as we are going through now, it means slower economic growth and higher unemployment.

Provide a link for that?

What you need a link to common sense, Britian is rethinking their wind plans because how ineffective it is. That was posted to this very baord a few days ago.

 

[daveman]

The problem is that electricity produced by solar/wind power is more expensive than electricity produced from fossil fuels so when the government has to provide subsidies to make it competitive, the jobs and tax revenues that subsidy money would have produced if invested elsewhere has to be counted as part of the cost of the electricity. In prosperous times we can absorb these costs, but in lean times such as we are going through now, it means slower economic growth and higher unemployment.

Provide a link for that?

What you need a link to common sense, Britian is rethinking their wind plans because how ineffective it is. That was posted to this very baord a few days ago.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/envir...d-wind-at-last-the-consensus-is-cracking.html

 

[Photonic]

Oh no, not more education. How terrible!

 

[LibertyLemming]

Oh no, not more education. How terrible!

More public education is terrible. Discounting it requires the taking by force of people's property, it just fails over and over.

 

[Photonic]

Oh no, not more education. How terrible!

More public education is terrible. Discounting it requires the taking by force of people's property, it just fails over and over.

Against proper education. Check.

 

[LibertyLemming]

Oh no, not more education. How terrible!

More public education is terrible. Discounting it requires the taking by force of people's property, it just fails over and over.

Against proper education. Check.

Against forced education and government designed education. I love proper education.

 

[Photonic]

More public education is terrible. Discounting it requires the taking by force of people's property, it just fails over and over.

Against proper education. Check.

Against forced education and government designed education. I love proper education.

Forced education is ultimately a necessity. Without it, we would be so far behind any other country that has it it would be laughable to claim it was worth it.

 

[LibertyLemming]

Against proper education. Check.

Against forced education and government designed education. I love proper education.

Forced education is ultimately a necessity. Without it, we would be so far behind any other country that has it it would be laughable to claim it was worth it.

You should google appeal to probability.

 

[Photonic]

Against forced education and government designed education. I love proper education.

Forced education is ultimately a necessity. Without it, we would be so far behind any other country that has it it would be laughable to claim it was worth it.

You should google appeal to probability.

I rather think math is a good predictor of things. Do you really want to compare public education to countries that lack it?

Is that really an argument you think you can pull off?

 

[LibertyLemming]

You can't find me an example of the government I want currently in operation so it's pointless to make that comparison.

Public education is wrong because it violates people's liberty through taxation.

 

[toomuchtime_]

You can't find me an example of the government I want currently in operation so it's pointless to make that comparison.

Public education is wrong because it violates people's liberty through taxation.

Interesting. So then are paved roads wrong, too?

 

[ScienceRocks]

Oh no, not more education. How terrible!

More public education is terrible. Discounting it requires the taking by force of people's property, it just fails over and over.

Against proper education. Check.

You're against rewarding teachers that do a good job with extra. We need to give our teachers a reason to do their best within our schools.

To many teachers within our innercities aren't taking their jobs seriously.

 

[shintao]

I'll be honest, I don't understand what's so bad about putting money into alternative/renewable energy. I mean, all forms of energy, before they become "big", so to speak, have to start somewhere right?

Do I agree with the state doing it themselves? Yes, and no. I believe that states should pay more attention to alt. energy, but I believe that the biggest breakthroughs in it will come from the private sector.

But at least they're trying, unlike Georgia D:

CA doesn't have the luxury of playing with solar panels and windmills.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/21/us/california-debt-higher-than-earlier-estimates.html

Gov. Jerry Brown of California announced when he came into office last year that he had found an alarming $28 billion “wall of debt” looming over the state, which had to be dismantled.

Since then, he has slowed the issuance of municipal bonds, called for spending cuts and tried to persuade the state’s famously antitax voters to approve a tax increase this fall.

On Thursday, an independent group of fiscal experts said Mr. Brown’s efforts were all well and good, but in fact, the “wall of debt” was several times as big as the governor thought.

--

The task force estimated that the burden of debt totaled at least $167 billion and as much as $335 billion. Its members warned that the off-the-books debts tended to grow over time, so that even if Mr. Brown should succeed in pushing through his tax increase, gaining an additional $50 billion over the next seven years, the wall of debt would still be there, casting its shadow over the state.​

They need to get their shit together.

LOL! Your state needs to get it's chit together dude. 167 Billion debt for the 8th largest economy in the world with a gross state product of over $1.9 trillion is a spit in a bucket. What state are you in? One of the ones we support with our taxes while you run your own deficits full bore?? LMAO!!

 

[Photonic]

I'll be honest, I don't understand what's so bad about putting money into alternative/renewable energy. I mean, all forms of energy, before they become "big", so to speak, have to start somewhere right?

Do I agree with the state doing it themselves? Yes, and no. I believe that states should pay more attention to alt. energy, but I believe that the biggest breakthroughs in it will come from the private sector.

But at least they're trying, unlike Georgia D:

CA doesn't have the luxury of playing with solar panels and windmills.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/21/us/california-debt-higher-than-earlier-estimates.html

Gov. Jerry Brown of California announced when he came into office last year that he had found an alarming $28 billion “wall of debt” looming over the state, which had to be dismantled.

Since then, he has slowed the issuance of municipal bonds, called for spending cuts and tried to persuade the state’s famously antitax voters to approve a tax increase this fall.

On Thursday, an independent group of fiscal experts said Mr. Brown’s efforts were all well and good, but in fact, the “wall of debt” was several times as big as the governor thought.

--

The task force estimated that the burden of debt totaled at least $167 billion and as much as $335 billion. Its members warned that the off-the-books debts tended to grow over time, so that even if Mr. Brown should succeed in pushing through his tax increase, gaining an additional $50 billion over the next seven years, the wall of debt would still be there, casting its shadow over the state.​

They need to get their shit together.

LOL! Your state needs to get it's chit together dude. 167 Billion debt for the 8th largest economy in the world with a gross state product of over $1.9 trillion is a spit in a bucket. What state are you in? One of the ones we support with our taxes while you run your own deficits full bore?? LMAO!!

It's a good example of what happens when you aren't allowed to raise taxes, I'll admit.

 

[shintao]

You can't find me an example of the government I want currently in operation so it's pointless to make that comparison.

Public education is wrong because it violates people's liberty through taxation.

Hmm, so wiping your ass with toilet paper is wrong because toilet paper comes from trees, and cutting down trees robs the air of oxygen that denys me oxygen and harms me.

 

[grunt11b]

To be honest, if it was for federal money, these dumbasses would not be doing this.

 

[shintao]

CA doesn't have the luxury of playing with solar panels and windmills.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/21/us/california-debt-higher-than-earlier-estimates.html

Gov. Jerry Brown of California announced when he came into office last year that he had found an alarming $28 billion “wall of debt” looming over the state, which had to be dismantled.

Since then, he has slowed the issuance of municipal bonds, called for spending cuts and tried to persuade the state’s famously antitax voters to approve a tax increase this fall.

On Thursday, an independent group of fiscal experts said Mr. Brown’s efforts were all well and good, but in fact, the “wall of debt” was several times as big as the governor thought.

--

The task force estimated that the burden of debt totaled at least $167 billion and as much as $335 billion. Its members warned that the off-the-books debts tended to grow over time, so that even if Mr. Brown should succeed in pushing through his tax increase, gaining an additional $50 billion over the next seven years, the wall of debt would still be there, casting its shadow over the state.​

They need to get their shit together.

LOL! Your state needs to get it's chit together dude. 167 Billion debt for the 8th largest economy in the world with a gross state product of over $1.9 trillion is a spit in a bucket. What state are you in? One of the ones we support with our taxes while you run your own deficits full bore?? LMAO!!

It's a good example of what happens when you aren't allowed to raise taxes, I'll admit.

At least we have not sold off our capitol buildings like Arizona did. If the state took over the sales of our own resources we could pay that off in a year or two with our oil alone.
Alaska paid it's citizens around $3,000. ea. for their share on oil sales. Now that would pay some serious taxes.

 

[Dick Tuck]

The problem is that electricity produced by solar/wind power is more expensive than electricity produced from fossil fuels so when the government has to provide subsidies to make it competitive, the jobs and tax revenues that subsidy money would have produced if invested elsewhere has to be counted as part of the cost of the electricity. In prosperous times we can absorb these costs, but in lean times such as we are going through now, it means slower economic growth and higher unemployment.

Provide a link for that?

You need a link to common sense?

If wind and solar could compete without government subsidies, they wouldn't need government subsidies, would they?

You seem to be the one lacking in common sense. Did you ever hear of a a term called, "life cycle cost"? And why do we still subsidize oil?

 

[squinch]

I'll be honest, I don't understand what's so bad about putting money into alternative/renewable energy. I mean, all forms of energy, before they become "big", so to speak, have to start somewhere right?

Do I agree with the state doing it themselves? Yes, and no. I believe that states should pay more attention to alt. energy, but I believe that the biggest breakthroughs in it will come from the private sector.

But at least they're trying, unlike Georgia D:

The problem is that electricity produced by solar/wind power is more expensive than electricity produced from fossil fuels so when the government has to provide subsidies to make it competitive, the jobs and tax revenues that subsidy money would have produced if invested elsewhere has to be counted as part of the cost of the electricity. In prosperous times we can absorb these costs, but in lean times such as we are going through now, it means slower economic growth and higher unemployment.

Is Operation Iraqui Liberation still off budget?

 

[editec]

Given how badly Californians got screwed by ENRON, one can hardly blame them for wanting to kick their hydrocarbon dependence