California Stem Cell Prop 71 Is Favored In The Polls

Discussion in 'Health and Lifestyle' started by NATO AIR, Oct 17, 2004.

  1. NATO AIR
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    NATO AIR Senior Member

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    the stem cell wars continue.. there's a prop 71 on the ballot that would invest 3 billion dollars for california to fund stem cell research...

    um, not sure how to feel about this... i see where a lot of opponents are coming from saying it seems like a real financial risk at a time when california needs to be fiscally responsible... so i'm gonna lean with those folks.

    however, i also see where people who believe it could lead to advances are coming from too.

    what do you all think?

     
  2. ScreamingEagle
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    ScreamingEagle Gold Member

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    Stem cells...the new and improved Aids issue.

    It's an upgraded hybrid with the following liberal components:

    1)supports abortion (kill human life in the embryonic stage, maybe later stages too)
    2)the homosexual appeal (think the Ron Reagan connection (such irony) and Jr. himself :gay: )
    3)affects a minority group (think handicapped)
    4)has the Hollywood element (think Superman and Christopher Reeve)
    5) holds the necessary bleeding heart component (who doesn't feel sorry for sick people?)
    6) has liberal snob appeal - (such a nice little known about subject - so easy to pontificate/fool the ignorant - who cares about speaking on the boring well-known subjects of heart disease and cancer which cause suffering to overwhelming numbers of people?)
    7) it's a vote-getter (think all of the above components)

    There are probably other factors but these are enough to make liberals flock to the "cause".

    (If the research is on adult stems cells only, fine, but I do not agree with creating human beings and then killing human beings to provide body tissues to others. However, this is what the liberals are supporting.)
     
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  3. NATO AIR
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    NATO AIR Senior Member

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    what was the problem with the AIDS issue in the past?
     
  4. ScreamingEagle
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    ScreamingEagle Gold Member

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    Nothing in the beginning. However it turned into a political football, much like this questionable stem cell reaseach appears to be headed.

    Because of the politicizing, the aids disease has unfairly sucked up vast amounts of CDC budget money from our hard-earned tax dollars that should have gone to help in other areas. What diseases do people in the U.S. suffer from most? It is not aids, never has been.

    In the 2004 CDC budget, the amount of funds earmarked for aids actually matches the amount of money being spent on terrorism preparedness and emergency response. This is outraegeous. But that is where liberal pc political pressure has taken us today.

    http://www.cdc.gov/fmo/FY04 Approp-factsheet.pdf
    http://www.cdc.gov/nccdphp/factsheets/death_causes2000.htm
     
  5. dilloduck
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    dilloduck Diamond Member

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    AMEN---libs love hopeless causes and demanding the disease-de-jour be funded without them ever having to soil their OWN hands. "FUND THIS CRAPPY DISEASE- WE CARE BY DEMANDING YOUR TAX MONEY TO RID US FROM THIS UGLINESS " (we aren't going to actually DO anything though--it's not our bag . We just bitch)
     
  6. Mainframe
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    Im glad you dont live in California.

    Stem Cell research is needed.. whether you like it or not, it is.

    But that would negate the need for for a lot of medicines, which would seriously harm the pharmaceutical companies. boo fucking hoo.

    If you think this its merely "experimental", your mistaken.

    In fact, I read an article where in Europe this guy lost his jaw to cancer or something, but grew a new jaw in his rib area (in a flap of flesh) and they put it in and its functional! that's just the beginning.

    There is proof in stem cell research working, there was never proof in AIDS cures.
     
  7. ScreamingEagle
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    ScreamingEagle Gold Member

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    Ah, California - the liberal land of fruits and nuts. (Isn't it past time for an earthquake to drop it into the sea?)

    I don't think you clearly understand the implications of embryonic stem cell research. If you think growing a new jaw in one's rib area is just spiffy, think what else can happen. The potential ghoulishness is incomprehensible (Halloween will never be the same). Liberals would probably be just fine with the creation of human beings from which to harvest various tissues, parts, etc.- thinking that to be just spiffy too. (think The Matrix )

    The whole idea of embryonic stem cells sounds rather innocent at first, even humane. It starts with a tiny human embryo - to some it's just a glop of cell tissue - which grows a little bit more tissue to be used to help someone with a medical problem. Who does that hurt you say? Never mind that you are killing one human being to help another. (Liberals believe in any means to obtain their ends.)

    At what point does the growing of tissue end? What or who defines the limitations, if any? Do you let the embryo develop eyes, ears, hands, jaws? How large do you allow the human embryo to grow? Into a baby? A child? Into adult size? Frankenstein was small potatoes compared to the possibilities here.

    Since liberals support the killing of a human baby as it actually starts to leave its mother, I can readily see where liberals would support the raising of human embryos, babies, children, and even adults for the harvesting of body parts because they could claim that the baby/child/adult was never actually "born".

    Think cloning. Liberals would probably think it would be a great idea to clone oneself and keep a spare human being on hand to match exactly any body parts that one might need. What the heck, keep several. At 50 trade in your old heart for a new one. Live forever!

    This is not to say that I oppose stem cell research - using adult stem cells does not kill anyone. Using embryos does. Liberals already support the killing of embryos and babies, and potentially older human beings, and their beliefs fall right in line with their support of embryonic stem cell research which is just another form of killing human beings. Their respect for life is abysmal. (unless it's a tree)

    As Bush has said, we need to be a society that supports LIFE. Liberals support death.
     
  8. wade
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    Eagle,

    You have little or no idea what stem cell research is about. It is not cloning, it is the manipulation of the cell dna before the cell(s) has(have) become descripted. I.e., before the cell is programmed to be a finger bone cell or a liver cell.

    The whole point is that the stem cells are not yet defined as any one type of cell, so we hope to be able to cause them to define themselves as we like. If we need pancreatic cells, we could culture a dish full of nothing but pancreatic cells with the desired dna strand on them, then using dna slicing techniques remove that strand and place it in a retro-virus, and then inject that into the diabetic patient to cure his diabetes. Because nothing but pancreatic cells would be involved, your concerns about "ghoulish" atrocities are unfounded.

    There is a real concern along the lines you have presented, but that is not the issue with stem cells or stem cell research, which involve nothing more developed than fertalized ovums or maybe, perhaps, simple zigots. The concern would be that, if I need a new heart, I could have myself cloned to produce a perfectly compatible heart in the clone which I would then have translpanted into me. But that is a different science than stem-cell research, and that science is already mature to the point that such a thing could be done today. It is entirely possible that there are people in the world that have clones being raised for the purpose of providing spare parts - but it takes a long time to raise a clone to maturity, so it is still pretty unlikely. If some way to age such a clone much faster than normal were developed, then it would probably become a thriving business in some foriegn country, and our rich would avail themselves of it you can bet on that!

    Stem-cell research is about life, not death. As long as there are laws against creating fertalized ovums specifically for stem-cell research, no lives are being lost that were not lost already.
     
  9. wade
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    As for it being a risk for California - well maybe, but probably not. If it passes, this will probably ensure that California is the leader in Bio-Tech for at least the next decade, probably the next 5 decades. And that will be worth far far more than a few billion dollars.
     
  10. Mainframe
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    Actually, I wont waste my time with an answer for you, wade did well. You got some serious hate issues, especially with liberals.

    And by the way, Im no liberal. Moderate, yes. Liberal, no. Yes I live in California and fuck you for hating on it. :finger:

    Sorry everyone else, normally Im not aggressive, but when you start insulting my home, then its gloves off time.
     

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