California Legislature to Expand Illegal Alien Benefits!

WTF? I can't follow you two at all. The punishment for being a "bad American" should be deportation?

To where?
Sure why not, I would love to see alot of criminals deported to any country that would take them.
 
How was my post misconstrued to mean that? American upward mobility isn't good but Mexico's is worse, hence immigration.

So you feel anyone who lives elsewhere and can show he or she would be better off living here has a (natural? legal? moral?) right to emigrate to the US, and we should amend our immigration laws to require no more than a "Hi!" from those seeking entrance?

If someone thinks they'd be better off in America, then they should be able to come to America. What happened to being a country of immigrants? Just because western Europeans happen to be the most common immigrants doesn't mean that they're better than anyone else. Nowadays the concept of borders is kind of disingenuous in that no one goes around conquering countries any more. A lot of problems worldwide are caused by these often arbitrary borders.

There was never a time when people could legally emigrate here simply because they wanted to. When my folks came in the 1920's, they had to show that they were not criminals, did not have any communicable diseases, were promised a job and had some money (although I don't doubt it was a meager sum). No one is saying brown people are unwelcome, polpotterybarn. But people with criminal records and those who will put a strain on the welfare or health care system of this country are -- and why should it be different?

I don't know how to reply to your comment about "arbitrary borders". Seems to me, there is nothing arbitrary about them at all, unless the whole notion of private property offends you.
 
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We take in more LEGAL immigrants than any country in the world.


That quote on the Statue of Liberty was never there when the French gave it to us. It was added well into the 20th Century. Added not by a vote of the people but by a pro-immgration poet who somehow successfully lobbied to get it snuck in.

Besides, there is quite a difference between immigration over 100 years ago and now. 100 years ago there was still vast unsettled territory and absolutely no welfare state. People came here to work. Even then we kept a close eye on immigration and even passed the fair and level-headed national origins immigration act in 1925. We need that act re-instated.

The inscription on the Statue of Liberty is—poetry on a work of art—not a law or government policy of the USA.

Taking in the most "legal" immigration is like being the tallest midget when there are clearly so many yearning to come here and being denied the right.

There is still a ridiculous amount of unsettled land and a welfare state is nonexistent.

The National Origins Act of 1924 (aimed disproportionately at Eastern European immigrants), along with the Chinese Exclusion Act (aimed at Chinese immigrants) and other ridiculous laws like Operation Wetback (aimed at Mexican immigrants) and the current Arizona situation all exemplify America's blatant xenophobia. Restrictive quotas are unnecessary. There is no reason for such protective borders
 
We take in more LEGAL immigrants than any country in the world.


That quote on the Statue of Liberty was never there when the French gave it to us. It was added well into the 20th Century. Added not by a vote of the people but by a pro-immgration poet who somehow successfully lobbied to get it snuck in.

Besides, there is quite a difference between immigration over 100 years ago and now. 100 years ago there was still vast unsettled territory and absolutely no welfare state. People came here to work. Even then we kept a close eye on immigration and even passed the fair and level-headed national origins immigration act in 1925. We need that act re-instated.

The inscription on the Statue of Liberty is—poetry on a work of art—not a law or government policy of the USA.

Taking in the most "legal" immigration is like being the tallest midget when there are clearly so many yearning to come here and being denied the right.

There is still a ridiculous amount of unsettled land and a welfare state is nonexistent.

The National Origins Act of 1924 (aimed disproportionately at Eastern European immigrants), along with the Chinese Exclusion Act (aimed at Chinese immigrants) and other ridiculous laws like Operation Wetback (aimed at Mexican immigrants) and the current Arizona situation all exemplify America's blatant xenophobia. Restrictive quotas are unnecessary. There is no reason for such protective borders

polpotterybarn, you cannot defend a POV by assuming it is correct. What gives any outlier the "right" to emigrate here? What would give a Mexican citizen "more right" to emigrate here than the citizens of any other nation?

As for their being "no reason" for immigration laws or borders....seriously? You think the US can just absorb the poor of all of North, Central and South America? Or all of Planet Earth?
 
So you feel anyone who lives elsewhere and can show he or she would be better off living here has a (natural? legal? moral?) right to emigrate to the US, and we should amend our immigration laws to require no more than a "Hi!" from those seeking entrance?

If someone thinks they'd be better off in America, then they should be able to come to America. What happened to being a country of immigrants? Just because western Europeans happen to be the most common immigrants doesn't mean that they're better than anyone else. Nowadays the concept of borders is kind of disingenuous in that no one goes around conquering countries any more. A lot of problems worldwide are caused by these often arbitrary borders.

There was never a time when people could legally emigrate here simply because they wanted to. When my folks came in the 1920's, they had to show that they were not criminals, did not have any communicable diseases, were promised a job and had some money (although I don't doubt it was a meager sum). No one is saying brown people are unwelcome, polpotterybarn. But people with criminal records and those who will put a strain on the welfare or health care system of this country are -- and why should it be different?

I don't know how to reply to your comment about "arbitrary borders". Seems to me, there is nothing arbitrary about them at all, unless the whole notion of private property offends you.

Denying that browns are unwelcome in America is either extremely ignorant or a lie
 
We take in more LEGAL immigrants than any country in the world.


That quote on the Statue of Liberty was never there when the French gave it to us. It was added well into the 20th Century. Added not by a vote of the people but by a pro-immgration poet who somehow successfully lobbied to get it snuck in.

Besides, there is quite a difference between immigration over 100 years ago and now. 100 years ago there was still vast unsettled territory and absolutely no welfare state. People came here to work. Even then we kept a close eye on immigration and even passed the fair and level-headed national origins immigration act in 1925. We need that act re-instated.

The inscription on the Statue of Liberty is—poetry on a work of art—not a law or government policy of the USA.

Taking in the most "legal" immigration is like being the tallest midget when there are clearly so many yearning to come here and being denied the right.

There is still a ridiculous amount of unsettled land and a welfare state is nonexistent.

The National Origins Act of 1924 (aimed disproportionately at Eastern European immigrants), along with the Chinese Exclusion Act (aimed at Chinese immigrants) and other ridiculous laws like Operation Wetback (aimed at Mexican immigrants) and the current Arizona situation all exemplify America's blatant xenophobia. Restrictive quotas are unnecessary. There is no reason for such protective borders

polpotterybarn, you cannot defend a POV by assuming it is correct. What gives any outlier the "right" to emigrate here? What would give a Mexican citizen "more right" to emigrate here than the citizens of any other nation?

As for their being "no reason" for immigration laws or borders....seriously? You think the US can just absorb the poor of all of North, Central and South America? Or all of Planet Earth?

I said something like borders aren't all that necessary and I do think people should be able to come to America, or any other country for that matter, if they think it's in their best interest. This is especially true for Canada and Mexico because of NAFTA. I'm going to bed
 
Schwartzenegger is a Republican, gautama. Lots of blame for the illegal immigration problem for both sides of the aisle.

Schwartzenegger being a Republican, or even a RINO doesn't change the fact that an UNLAWFUL activity is an UNLAWFUL activity.

Surely even a silly Obamarrhoidal LIEbturd hack like you knows that.

But you don't care.

Being an idiotically Slavish Obamarrhoidal LIEbturd crunt is more important to you, you silly old fart.
 
These undocumented workers are coming here out of necessity. It is immoral to label them as illegal when they are coming here and taking the worst jobs at the worst pay only to send the money back to their families in hope that they can one day come to the United States where a better life is possible for them. There once was a time in America, you know, when we actually encouraged immigration. The statue of liberty reads "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" Can you imagine if your grandparents or great grandparents or whoever brought you here had to go through an inefficient and decades-long citizenship process, only to be the designated gripe catchers of American society?

Also, with NAFTA, capital can cross the United States-Mexico border without a problem. Prospective immigrants, however, have it harder than ever. Are we, then, saying capital is more important than thousands of people whose only hope is a below-minimum wage American job? Either way, advocation for harsher border policy is not only impractical but also morally abhorrent.

Edit:

Only a WASP American baby could ever have a problem with educating the poor. Are you kidding me

Let's just take a moment and examine those words, shall we?

"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Those words were written as a slap in the face of the 'Establishment' of Europe. 'Establishment' was the class structure that made it impossible for the poor to lift themselves out of poverty and achieve wealth and status. What those words mean is NOT give us your poor people and we'll take care of them, they mean 'allow your poor to come here and here (in America) we will consider them our equal. They can work hard here and achieve their dreams. It was a challenge.... to Europe, and to its people, to come here and work and, through your own efforts, you can achieve here. It was not an invite to send us those who need to be taken care of. Idiot.

I am sick and tired of morons, who seem incapable of understanding basic shit, twisting the words on that statue, and using the phrase 'general welfare' in the Declaration, to justify hand outs. We are not, nor were we ever supposed to be, a nation of hand outs. Want hand outs, go to Europe.
 
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We ship mail across borders more readily than people as well. By polpotterybarn's reasoning, that means we value greeting cards more highly than people. This is just goofy.

I suspect polpotterybarn has seen a documentary on migrant farm labor in the US, was *shocked* that US agriculture exploits the poor, and wants that injustice remedied. That's laudable. But he has not yet examined the implications of his premise "Mexican citizens have a right to become American citizens at will".
 
These undocumented workers are coming here out of necessity. It is immoral to label them as illegal when they are coming here and taking the worst jobs at the worst pay only to send the money back to their families in hope that they can one day come to the United States where a better life is possible for them. There once was a time in America, you know, when we actually encouraged immigration. The statue of liberty reads "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" Can you imagine if your grandparents or great grandparents or whoever brought you here had to go through an inefficient and decades-long citizenship process, only to be the designated gripe catchers of American society?

Also, with NAFTA, capital can cross the United States-Mexico border without a problem. Prospective immigrants, however, have it harder than ever. Are we, then, saying capital is more important than thousands of people whose only hope is a below-minimum wage American job? Either way, advocation for harsher border policy is not only impractical but also morally abhorrent.

Edit:

Only a WASP American baby could ever have a problem with educating the poor. Are you kidding me

Let's just take a moment and examine those words, shall we?

"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Those words were written as a slap in the face of the 'Establishment' of Europe. 'Establishment' was the class structure that made it impossible for the poor to lift themselves out of poverty and achieve wealth and status. What those words mean is NOT give us your poor people and we'll take care of them, they mean 'allow your poor to come here and here (in America) we will consider them our equal. They can work hard here and achieve their dreams. It was a challenge.... to Europe, and to its people, to come here and work and, through your own efforts, you can achieve here. It was not an invite to send us those who need to be taken care of. Idiot.

I am sick and tired of morons, who seem incapable of understanding basic shit, twisting the words on that statue, and using the phrase 'general welfare' in the Declaration, to justify hand outs. We are not, nor were we ever supposed to be, a nation of hand outs. Want hand outs, go to Europe.

hahahahhaah you are the personification of an ignorant American who thinks they've worked for themselves their whole life. America is a nation built on stolen land and slave labor and you expect everyone else to be self-made Horatio Alger stories? Odds are, when you were born, you were born into more wealth than a vast majority of the world's population. It's kind of offensive that you even claim to be against handouts when you almost certainly are here because of them.

And the undocumented workers are working here. You know, hence the "workers" in undocumented workers. They aren't "welfare queens" (also nonexistent). Your poetic interpretation couldn't mean less when it's obvious you're a hypocrite and a terrible person
 
We ship mail across borders more readily than people as well. By polpotterybarn's reasoning, that means we value greeting cards more highly than people. This is just goofy.

I suspect polpotterybarn has seen a documentary on migrant farm labor in the US, was *shocked* that US agriculture exploits the poor, and wants that injustice remedied. That's laudable. But he has not yet examined the implications of his premise "Mexican citizens have a right to become American citizens at will".

Again, that's not true at all. Greeting cards aren't important at all in this situation. It's capital and the people who produce it. Here, capital is valued more highly than its producers. Furthermore, I think it's pretentious to think that everyone would want to be an American citizen given the opportunity. Fixing the immigration process to make it much easier doesn't mean 6 billion people will suddenly come rushing to America. American exceptionalism at its finest.
 
These undocumented workers are coming here out of necessity. It is immoral to label them as illegal when they are coming here and taking the worst jobs at the worst pay only to send the money back to their families in hope that they can one day come to the United States where a better life is possible for them. There once was a time in America, you know, when we actually encouraged immigration. The statue of liberty reads "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" Can you imagine if your grandparents or great grandparents or whoever brought you here had to go through an inefficient and decades-long citizenship process, only to be the designated gripe catchers of American society?

Also, with NAFTA, capital can cross the United States-Mexico border without a problem. Prospective immigrants, however, have it harder than ever. Are we, then, saying capital is more important than thousands of people whose only hope is a below-minimum wage American job? Either way, advocation for harsher border policy is not only impractical but also morally abhorrent.

Edit:

Only a WASP American baby could ever have a problem with educating the poor. Are you kidding me

Let's just take a moment and examine those words, shall we?

"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Those words were written as a slap in the face of the 'Establishment' of Europe. 'Establishment' was the class structure that made it impossible for the poor to lift themselves out of poverty and achieve wealth and status. What those words mean is NOT give us your poor people and we'll take care of them, they mean 'allow your poor to come here and here (in America) we will consider them our equal. They can work hard here and achieve their dreams. It was a challenge.... to Europe, and to its people, to come here and work and, through your own efforts, you can achieve here. It was not an invite to send us those who need to be taken care of. Idiot.

I am sick and tired of morons, who seem incapable of understanding basic shit, twisting the words on that statue, and using the phrase 'general welfare' in the Declaration, to justify hand outs. We are not, nor were we ever supposed to be, a nation of hand outs. Want hand outs, go to Europe.

hahahahhaah you are the personification of an ignorant American who thinks they've worked for themselves their whole life. America is a nation built on stolen land and slave labor and you expect everyone else to be self-made Horatio Alger stories? Odds are, when you were born, you were born into more wealth than a vast majority of the world's population. It's kind of offensive that you even claim to be against handouts when you almost certainly are here because of them.

And the undocumented workers are working here. You know, hence the "workers" in undocumented workers. They aren't "welfare queens" (also nonexistent). Your poetic interpretation couldn't mean less when it's obvious you're a hypocrite and a terrible person

O my. Liberal guilt. I have heard of this phenom before but I have never actually seen it in the wild. Let's examine this reasoning a bit more closely, shall we?

* I did not contribute to the US economy before I was born. Agreed.

* The US economy is one of the strongest on Planet Earth. Agreed.

* I was lucky to be born here. Disagree. My parents planned that way.

* Mexico's economy sucks. Agreed.

* Many many many Mexican citizens want to be US citizens instead. Agreed.

* If I don't give away citizenship like it's a self-perpetuating, never-ending supply of tribbles, I am a "terrible person". Uh, that's a big "Disagreed".

Lemme ask you, polpotterybarn, do you think most Mexicans would prefer to live in Mexico if they could have good jobs, education and public safety there? Do you think the US agriculture biz is entitled to a slave labor class? Do you think people who live in US border states have any right whatsoever to limit the number of Mexican criminals in their midst?

 
We ship mail across borders more readily than people as well. By polpotterybarn's reasoning, that means we value greeting cards more highly than people. This is just goofy.

I suspect polpotterybarn has seen a documentary on migrant farm labor in the US, was *shocked* that US agriculture exploits the poor, and wants that injustice remedied. That's laudable. But he has not yet examined the implications of his premise "Mexican citizens have a right to become American citizens at will".

Again, that's not true at all. Greeting cards aren't important at all in this situation. It's capital and the people who produce it. Here, capital is valued more highly than its producers. Furthermore, I think it's pretentious to think that everyone would want to be an American citizen given the opportunity. Fixing the immigration process to make it much easier doesn't mean 6 billion people will suddenly come rushing to America. American exceptionalism at its finest.

I assume the 2 million or so Mexican illegal immigrants already here would prefer to be US citizens. If that makes me guilty of "American exceptionalism", so be it.
 

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