BUT BLACKS COMMIT MORE CRIMES”: Scholars discuss conservative logic

[Crepitus]

This is a common song here at USMB.

“BUT BLACKS COMMIT MORE CRIMES”: Scholars discuss conservative logic
Todd Beer on July 25, 2016

Since 2014 there has been renewed interest, concern, and protest regarding the police use of deadly force against unarmed Blacks. Various conservative commentators and publications, as well as comments on other posts to this blog, have implied that the reason so many Blacks are killed by police is that Blacks are more likely to be involved in violent crime. For example, in an article in the National Review, David French writes, “Moreover, racial disparities in the use of force are largely explained by racial disparities in criminality. Different American demographics commit crimes at different rates, so it stands to reason that those who commit more crimes will confront the police more often.”

Below is the transcript of a conversation regarding this issue I had with three scholars, all of whom have studied the interaction of police and the African American community.

The scholars are:

RASHAWN RAY, Department of Sociology, University of Maryland.

CODY ROSS, Department of Anthropology, University of California, Davis

DON TOMASKOVIC-DEVEY, Department of Sociology, University of Massachusetts-Amherst.

Rashawn:

"The problem with this type of logic is that we assume that an entire group of people is responsible for the actions of some and that the entire group should be criminalized for it."

So in other words, because of the perception that Blacks commit more crimes this somehow justifies the fact that Black people are actually policed more. The problem is that this shouldn’t be the case. First, an overwhelming percentage of Blacks are not criminals and those that have been convicted of crimes, studies show that roughly 75% of Blacks in prison are in prison for nonviolent drug offenses. The other narrative is that Black neighborhoods are ubiquitously framed as being problematic and crime prone when in fact there are a plethora of predominantly Black neighborhoods around the country, one of which I happen to live in, that has extremely low crime rates and are not part of the narrative. On the other end of the spectrum, there are predominantly White neighborhoods that have high crime rates, but for some reason we leave these two types of neighborhoods out of the narrative as it relates to crime.

So what is happening is that an entire group of people who overwhelmingly are not committing crime and are not guilty, end up being criminalized because of the logic that people have about this.

“BUT BLACKS COMMIT MORE CRIMES”: Scholars discuss conservative logic - Sociology Toolbox

Mangling of the language.. NOBODY SAYS (at least nobody well-read) that "Blacks commit more crimes"... NO fucking BODY...

What is correct is that blacks, especially in predominately black areas "ARE MORE LIKELY" to commit crimes.

The 2 assertions are entirely different and only confusing to you because you refuse to learn the basics of statistics...

Your conservative buddies are saying that repeatedly right here in this thread.

 

[flacaltenn]

This is a common song here at USMB.

“BUT BLACKS COMMIT MORE CRIMES”: Scholars discuss conservative logic
Todd Beer on July 25, 2016

Since 2014 there has been renewed interest, concern, and protest regarding the police use of deadly force against unarmed Blacks. Various conservative commentators and publications, as well as comments on other posts to this blog, have implied that the reason so many Blacks are killed by police is that Blacks are more likely to be involved in violent crime. For example, in an article in the National Review, David French writes, “Moreover, racial disparities in the use of force are largely explained by racial disparities in criminality. Different American demographics commit crimes at different rates, so it stands to reason that those who commit more crimes will confront the police more often.”

Below is the transcript of a conversation regarding this issue I had with three scholars, all of whom have studied the interaction of police and the African American community.

The scholars are:

RASHAWN RAY, Department of Sociology, University of Maryland.

CODY ROSS, Department of Anthropology, University of California, Davis

DON TOMASKOVIC-DEVEY, Department of Sociology, University of Massachusetts-Amherst.

Rashawn:

"The problem with this type of logic is that we assume that an entire group of people is responsible for the actions of some and that the entire group should be criminalized for it."

So in other words, because of the perception that Blacks commit more crimes this somehow justifies the fact that Black people are actually policed more. The problem is that this shouldn’t be the case. First, an overwhelming percentage of Blacks are not criminals and those that have been convicted of crimes, studies show that roughly 75% of Blacks in prison are in prison for nonviolent drug offenses. The other narrative is that Black neighborhoods are ubiquitously framed as being problematic and crime prone when in fact there are a plethora of predominantly Black neighborhoods around the country, one of which I happen to live in, that has extremely low crime rates and are not part of the narrative. On the other end of the spectrum, there are predominantly White neighborhoods that have high crime rates, but for some reason we leave these two types of neighborhoods out of the narrative as it relates to crime.

So what is happening is that an entire group of people who overwhelmingly are not committing crime and are not guilty, end up being criminalized because of the logic that people have about this.

“BUT BLACKS COMMIT MORE CRIMES”: Scholars discuss conservative logic - Sociology Toolbox

Mangling of the language.. NOBODY SAYS (at least nobody well-read) that "Blacks commit more crimes"... NO fucking BODY...

What is correct is that blacks, especially in predominately black areas "ARE MORE LIKELY" to commit crimes.

The 2 assertions are entirely different and only confusing to you because you refuse to learn the basics of statistics...

Your conservative buddies are saying that repeatedly right here in this thread.

That's exactly what's so ironic and hypocritical here. Racists of ANY color tend to warp facts and abuse statistics in their favor.. The tactics USED by white racists are almost IDENTICAL to those used by Black racists.

Reasonable people are obliged to criticize them equally.....

 

[IM2]

This is a common song here at USMB.

“BUT BLACKS COMMIT MORE CRIMES”: Scholars discuss conservative logic
Todd Beer on July 25, 2016

Since 2014 there has been renewed interest, concern, and protest regarding the police use of deadly force against unarmed Blacks. Various conservative commentators and publications, as well as comments on other posts to this blog, have implied that the reason so many Blacks are killed by police is that Blacks are more likely to be involved in violent crime. For example, in an article in the National Review, David French writes, “Moreover, racial disparities in the use of force are largely explained by racial disparities in criminality. Different American demographics commit crimes at different rates, so it stands to reason that those who commit more crimes will confront the police more often.”

Below is the transcript of a conversation regarding this issue I had with three scholars, all of whom have studied the interaction of police and the African American community.

The scholars are:

RASHAWN RAY, Department of Sociology, University of Maryland.

CODY ROSS, Department of Anthropology, University of California, Davis

DON TOMASKOVIC-DEVEY, Department of Sociology, University of Massachusetts-Amherst.

Rashawn:

"The problem with this type of logic is that we assume that an entire group of people is responsible for the actions of some and that the entire group should be criminalized for it."

So in other words, because of the perception that Blacks commit more crimes this somehow justifies the fact that Black people are actually policed more. The problem is that this shouldn’t be the case. First, an overwhelming percentage of Blacks are not criminals and those that have been convicted of crimes, studies show that roughly 75% of Blacks in prison are in prison for nonviolent drug offenses. The other narrative is that Black neighborhoods are ubiquitously framed as being problematic and crime prone when in fact there are a plethora of predominantly Black neighborhoods around the country, one of which I happen to live in, that has extremely low crime rates and are not part of the narrative. On the other end of the spectrum, there are predominantly White neighborhoods that have high crime rates, but for some reason we leave these two types of neighborhoods out of the narrative as it relates to crime.

So what is happening is that an entire group of people who overwhelmingly are not committing crime and are not guilty, end up being criminalized because of the logic that people have about this.

“BUT BLACKS COMMIT MORE CRIMES”: Scholars discuss conservative logic - Sociology Toolbox

Mangling of the language.. NOBODY SAYS (at least nobody well-read) that "Blacks commit more crimes"... NO fucking BODY...

What is correct is that blacks, especially in predominately black areas "ARE MORE LIKELY" to commit crimes.

The 2 assertions are entirely different and only confusing to you because you refuse to learn the basics of statistics...

Your conservative buddies are saying that repeatedly right here in this thread.

That's exactly what's so ironic and hypocritical here. Racists of ANY color tend to warp facts and abuse statistics in their favor.. The tactics USED by white racists are almost IDENTICAL to those used by Black racists.

Reasonable people are obliged to criticize them equally.....

Bullshit. Because what you call black racism isn't even racism. Reasonable people are obliged to criticize those like you who are trying to push this false equivalence.

Why Whites Call People Of Colour “Racist”

"I have been called “racist” by White people whenever I specifically reject a legislative, political, media/film/art, or cultural manifestation of White supremacy. I’ve also been called “racist” for recounting any experience that I have had with racism. The actual act of naming what I heard or experienced is deemed “racist.” The naming, deconstruction and discussion of experiences of this nature is important, however.

There’s two reasons why Whites call people of colour (especially Black people) “racist.” First of all, it comes from a lack of understanding of the term (through ignorance or willful ignorance and hatred), its history and its consequences. As long as “racism” is viewed solely as “one person being mean to another person because of their race” or basically solely as an individual and arbitrary instance of prejudice with equal social capital between the individuals, Whites can obscure or ignore the ramifications of the historical (whether implied, microaggressions or overt racism), institutional, structural and systemic manifestations of White supremacy (which does NOT require extremism to exist) and racism.

The rejection of White supremacy and racism themselves is not “reverse racism.” Rejecting White supremacy is not then telling Whites to be “ashamed” of Whiteness, as they should be able to live and thrive without the lie that is the claim of inherent superiority.

“Reverse racism,” as well as “misandry” and “heterophobia” are not forms of oppression. The oppressed deconstructing, rejecting and fighting oppression does not then make the privileged become oppressed. The privileged have no “right” to oppress, so losing the opportunity to oppress does not make the privileged become oppressed. If the privileged measure their freedom based on how much they can oppress or not, the know nothing of actual freedom. Nothing."

Gradient Lair - Why Whites Call People Of Colour “Racist”

 

[IM2]

This is a common song here at USMB.

“BUT BLACKS COMMIT MORE CRIMES”: Scholars discuss conservative logic
Todd Beer on July 25, 2016

Since 2014 there has been renewed interest, concern, and protest regarding the police use of deadly force against unarmed Blacks. Various conservative commentators and publications, as well as comments on other posts to this blog, have implied that the reason so many Blacks are killed by police is that Blacks are more likely to be involved in violent crime. For example, in an article in the National Review, David French writes, “Moreover, racial disparities in the use of force are largely explained by racial disparities in criminality. Different American demographics commit crimes at different rates, so it stands to reason that those who commit more crimes will confront the police more often.”

Below is the transcript of a conversation regarding this issue I had with three scholars, all of whom have studied the interaction of police and the African American community.

The scholars are:

RASHAWN RAY, Department of Sociology, University of Maryland.

CODY ROSS, Department of Anthropology, University of California, Davis

DON TOMASKOVIC-DEVEY, Department of Sociology, University of Massachusetts-Amherst.

Rashawn:

"The problem with this type of logic is that we assume that an entire group of people is responsible for the actions of some and that the entire group should be criminalized for it."

So in other words, because of the perception that Blacks commit more crimes this somehow justifies the fact that Black people are actually policed more. The problem is that this shouldn’t be the case. First, an overwhelming percentage of Blacks are not criminals and those that have been convicted of crimes, studies show that roughly 75% of Blacks in prison are in prison for nonviolent drug offenses. The other narrative is that Black neighborhoods are ubiquitously framed as being problematic and crime prone when in fact there are a plethora of predominantly Black neighborhoods around the country, one of which I happen to live in, that has extremely low crime rates and are not part of the narrative. On the other end of the spectrum, there are predominantly White neighborhoods that have high crime rates, but for some reason we leave these two types of neighborhoods out of the narrative as it relates to crime.

So what is happening is that an entire group of people who overwhelmingly are not committing crime and are not guilty, end up being criminalized because of the logic that people have about this.

“BUT BLACKS COMMIT MORE CRIMES”: Scholars discuss conservative logic - Sociology Toolbox

Then blacks need to stop lying about how dangerous their neighborhoods are.

The only reason we think black neighborhoods are so dangerous is because black people tell us that’s how it is.

How many documentaries have we seen with black kids crying about all the gun fire they hear? And how they all know someone who’s been killed by gang violence.

Why do blacks lie? Or exaggerate

That's a lie and you know it. Shut up trying to tell me about black neighborhoods and recognize the danger you ignore in your own. How many documentaries are done about safe low crime black communities WB? They do exist. In high numbers. I grew up in one.

 

[Crepitus]

This is a common song here at USMB.

“BUT BLACKS COMMIT MORE CRIMES”: Scholars discuss conservative logic
Todd Beer on July 25, 2016

Since 2014 there has been renewed interest, concern, and protest regarding the police use of deadly force against unarmed Blacks. Various conservative commentators and publications, as well as comments on other posts to this blog, have implied that the reason so many Blacks are killed by police is that Blacks are more likely to be involved in violent crime. For example, in an article in the National Review, David French writes, “Moreover, racial disparities in the use of force are largely explained by racial disparities in criminality. Different American demographics commit crimes at different rates, so it stands to reason that those who commit more crimes will confront the police more often.”

Below is the transcript of a conversation regarding this issue I had with three scholars, all of whom have studied the interaction of police and the African American community.

The scholars are:

RASHAWN RAY, Department of Sociology, University of Maryland.

CODY ROSS, Department of Anthropology, University of California, Davis

DON TOMASKOVIC-DEVEY, Department of Sociology, University of Massachusetts-Amherst.

Rashawn:

"The problem with this type of logic is that we assume that an entire group of people is responsible for the actions of some and that the entire group should be criminalized for it."

So in other words, because of the perception that Blacks commit more crimes this somehow justifies the fact that Black people are actually policed more. The problem is that this shouldn’t be the case. First, an overwhelming percentage of Blacks are not criminals and those that have been convicted of crimes, studies show that roughly 75% of Blacks in prison are in prison for nonviolent drug offenses. The other narrative is that Black neighborhoods are ubiquitously framed as being problematic and crime prone when in fact there are a plethora of predominantly Black neighborhoods around the country, one of which I happen to live in, that has extremely low crime rates and are not part of the narrative. On the other end of the spectrum, there are predominantly White neighborhoods that have high crime rates, but for some reason we leave these two types of neighborhoods out of the narrative as it relates to crime.

So what is happening is that an entire group of people who overwhelmingly are not committing crime and are not guilty, end up being criminalized because of the logic that people have about this.

“BUT BLACKS COMMIT MORE CRIMES”: Scholars discuss conservative logic - Sociology Toolbox

Mangling of the language.. NOBODY SAYS (at least nobody well-read) that "Blacks commit more crimes"... NO fucking BODY...

What is correct is that blacks, especially in predominately black areas "ARE MORE LIKELY" to commit crimes.

The 2 assertions are entirely different and only confusing to you because you refuse to learn the basics of statistics...

Your conservative buddies are saying that repeatedly right here in this thread.

That's exactly what's so ironic and hypocritical here. Racists of ANY color tend to warp facts and abuse statistics in their favor.. The tactics USED by white racists are almost IDENTICAL to those used by Black racists.

Reasonable people are obliged to criticize them equally.....

You are backing away from your first statement.

 

[sealybobo]

This is a common song here at USMB.

“BUT BLACKS COMMIT MORE CRIMES”: Scholars discuss conservative logic
Todd Beer on July 25, 2016

Since 2014 there has been renewed interest, concern, and protest regarding the police use of deadly force against unarmed Blacks. Various conservative commentators and publications, as well as comments on other posts to this blog, have implied that the reason so many Blacks are killed by police is that Blacks are more likely to be involved in violent crime. For example, in an article in the National Review, David French writes, “Moreover, racial disparities in the use of force are largely explained by racial disparities in criminality. Different American demographics commit crimes at different rates, so it stands to reason that those who commit more crimes will confront the police more often.”

Below is the transcript of a conversation regarding this issue I had with three scholars, all of whom have studied the interaction of police and the African American community.

The scholars are:

RASHAWN RAY, Department of Sociology, University of Maryland.

CODY ROSS, Department of Anthropology, University of California, Davis

DON TOMASKOVIC-DEVEY, Department of Sociology, University of Massachusetts-Amherst.

Rashawn:

"The problem with this type of logic is that we assume that an entire group of people is responsible for the actions of some and that the entire group should be criminalized for it."

So in other words, because of the perception that Blacks commit more crimes this somehow justifies the fact that Black people are actually policed more. The problem is that this shouldn’t be the case. First, an overwhelming percentage of Blacks are not criminals and those that have been convicted of crimes, studies show that roughly 75% of Blacks in prison are in prison for nonviolent drug offenses. The other narrative is that Black neighborhoods are ubiquitously framed as being problematic and crime prone when in fact there are a plethora of predominantly Black neighborhoods around the country, one of which I happen to live in, that has extremely low crime rates and are not part of the narrative. On the other end of the spectrum, there are predominantly White neighborhoods that have high crime rates, but for some reason we leave these two types of neighborhoods out of the narrative as it relates to crime.

So what is happening is that an entire group of people who overwhelmingly are not committing crime and are not guilty, end up being criminalized because of the logic that people have about this.

“BUT BLACKS COMMIT MORE CRIMES”: Scholars discuss conservative logic - Sociology Toolbox

Then blacks need to stop lying about how dangerous their neighborhoods are.

The only reason we think black neighborhoods are so dangerous is because black people tell us that’s how it is.

How many documentaries have we seen with black kids crying about all the gun fire they hear? And how they all know someone who’s been killed by gang violence.

Why do blacks lie? Or exaggerate

That's a lie and you know it. Shut up trying to tell me about black neighborhoods and recognize the danger you ignore in your own. How many documentaries are done about safe low crime black communities WB? They do exist. In high numbers. I grew up in one.

Where did you grow up?

And you know I don’t lie. I’ve seen pbs specials where they interview young black kids and they all say they know someone who’s been killed by gang violence. And gun shots at night are common. I remember one specifically was on Newark nj. Isn’t that a high crime black community?

Detroit, Saginaw and flint are dangerous neighborhoods. Chicago. Compton. Watts. Etc.

Now name a few high crime white neighborhoods with white gangs.

 

[sealybobo]

This is a common song here at USMB.

“BUT BLACKS COMMIT MORE CRIMES”: Scholars discuss conservative logic
Todd Beer on July 25, 2016

Since 2014 there has been renewed interest, concern, and protest regarding the police use of deadly force against unarmed Blacks. Various conservative commentators and publications, as well as comments on other posts to this blog, have implied that the reason so many Blacks are killed by police is that Blacks are more likely to be involved in violent crime. For example, in an article in the National Review, David French writes, “Moreover, racial disparities in the use of force are largely explained by racial disparities in criminality. Different American demographics commit crimes at different rates, so it stands to reason that those who commit more crimes will confront the police more often.”

Below is the transcript of a conversation regarding this issue I had with three scholars, all of whom have studied the interaction of police and the African American community.

The scholars are:

RASHAWN RAY, Department of Sociology, University of Maryland.

CODY ROSS, Department of Anthropology, University of California, Davis

DON TOMASKOVIC-DEVEY, Department of Sociology, University of Massachusetts-Amherst.

Rashawn:

"The problem with this type of logic is that we assume that an entire group of people is responsible for the actions of some and that the entire group should be criminalized for it."

So in other words, because of the perception that Blacks commit more crimes this somehow justifies the fact that Black people are actually policed more. The problem is that this shouldn’t be the case. First, an overwhelming percentage of Blacks are not criminals and those that have been convicted of crimes, studies show that roughly 75% of Blacks in prison are in prison for nonviolent drug offenses. The other narrative is that Black neighborhoods are ubiquitously framed as being problematic and crime prone when in fact there are a plethora of predominantly Black neighborhoods around the country, one of which I happen to live in, that has extremely low crime rates and are not part of the narrative. On the other end of the spectrum, there are predominantly White neighborhoods that have high crime rates, but for some reason we leave these two types of neighborhoods out of the narrative as it relates to crime.

So what is happening is that an entire group of people who overwhelmingly are not committing crime and are not guilty, end up being criminalized because of the logic that people have about this.

“BUT BLACKS COMMIT MORE CRIMES”: Scholars discuss conservative logic - Sociology Toolbox

Then blacks need to stop lying about how dangerous their neighborhoods are.

The only reason we think black neighborhoods are so dangerous is because black people tell us that’s how it is.

How many documentaries have we seen with black kids crying about all the gun fire they hear? And how they all know someone who’s been killed by gang violence.

Why do blacks lie? Or exaggerate

That's a lie and you know it. Shut up trying to tell me about black neighborhoods and recognize the danger you ignore in your own. How many documentaries are done about safe low crime black communities WB? They do exist. In high numbers. I grew up in one.

Colin Farrell was on Howard stern. He said something funny. He said he knows black people who hate white people but would kill for their white friend.

I know you can hate whites without actually hating white people that you see. You know they aren’t all bad but too many of us have what you feel are bigoted attitudes but you have to agree all the people we trash black or white are the losers in our society. We can at least agree most of them are doing it to themselves. Either their parents weren’t good or they’re lazy, or not that bright. They are responsible for their actions.

We shouldn’t be judged for what those bad apples do and neither should you guys have to take responsibility for what some nut does.

I seriously think we can live together if liberals lead the way. We will implement diversity. It will be done in ways that don’t force companies to diversify but encourage. And when economic opportunity is really available to everyone who tries, then it won’t matter what racists believe. They’ll go extinct.

 

[MizMolly]

This is a common song here at USMB.

“BUT BLACKS COMMIT MORE CRIMES”: Scholars discuss conservative logic
Todd Beer on July 25, 2016

Since 2014 there has been renewed interest, concern, and protest regarding the police use of deadly force against unarmed Blacks. Various conservative commentators and publications, as well as comments on other posts to this blog, have implied that the reason so many Blacks are killed by police is that Blacks are more likely to be involved in violent crime. For example, in an article in the National Review, David French writes, “Moreover, racial disparities in the use of force are largely explained by racial disparities in criminality. Different American demographics commit crimes at different rates, so it stands to reason that those who commit more crimes will confront the police more often.”

Below is the transcript of a conversation regarding this issue I had with three scholars, all of whom have studied the interaction of police and the African American community.

The scholars are:

RASHAWN RAY, Department of Sociology, University of Maryland.

CODY ROSS, Department of Anthropology, University of California, Davis

DON TOMASKOVIC-DEVEY, Department of Sociology, University of Massachusetts-Amherst.

Rashawn:

"The problem with this type of logic is that we assume that an entire group of people is responsible for the actions of some and that the entire group should be criminalized for it."

So in other words, because of the perception that Blacks commit more crimes this somehow justifies the fact that Black people are actually policed more. The problem is that this shouldn’t be the case. First, an overwhelming percentage of Blacks are not criminals and those that have been convicted of crimes, studies show that roughly 75% of Blacks in prison are in prison for nonviolent drug offenses. The other narrative is that Black neighborhoods are ubiquitously framed as being problematic and crime prone when in fact there are a plethora of predominantly Black neighborhoods around the country, one of which I happen to live in, that has extremely low crime rates and are not part of the narrative. On the other end of the spectrum, there are predominantly White neighborhoods that have high crime rates, but for some reason we leave these two types of neighborhoods out of the narrative as it relates to crime.

So what is happening is that an entire group of people who overwhelmingly are not committing crime and are not guilty, end up being criminalized because of the logic that people have about this.

“BUT BLACKS COMMIT MORE CRIMES”: Scholars discuss conservative logic - Sociology Toolbox

Mangling of the language.. NOBODY SAYS (at least nobody well-read) that "Blacks commit more crimes"... NO fucking BODY...

What is correct is that blacks, especially in predominately black areas "ARE MORE LIKELY" to commit crimes.

The 2 assertions are entirely different and only confusing to you because you refuse to learn the basics of statistics...

Your conservative buddies are saying that repeatedly right here in this thread.

That's exactly what's so ironic and hypocritical here. Racists of ANY color tend to warp facts and abuse statistics in their favor.. The tactics USED by white racists are almost IDENTICAL to those used by Black racists.

Reasonable people are obliged to criticize them equally.....

Bullshit. Because what you call black racism isn't even racism. Reasonable people are obliged to criticize those like you who are trying to push this false equivalence.

Why Whites Call People Of Colour “Racist”

"I have been called “racist” by White people whenever I specifically reject a legislative, political, media/film/art, or cultural manifestation of White supremacy. I’ve also been called “racist” for recounting any experience that I have had with racism. The actual act of naming what I heard or experienced is deemed “racist.” The naming, deconstruction and discussion of experiences of this nature is important, however.

There’s two reasons why Whites call people of colour (especially Black people) “racist.” First of all, it comes from a lack of understanding of the term (through ignorance or willful ignorance and hatred), its history and its consequences. As long as “racism” is viewed solely as “one person being mean to another person because of their race” or basically solely as an individual and arbitrary instance of prejudice with equal social capital between the individuals, Whites can obscure or ignore the ramifications of the historical (whether implied, microaggressions or overt racism), institutional, structural and systemic manifestations of White supremacy (which does NOT require extremism to exist) and racism.

The rejection of White supremacy and racism themselves is not “reverse racism.” Rejecting White supremacy is not then telling Whites to be “ashamed” of Whiteness, as they should be able to live and thrive without the lie that is the claim of inherent superiority.

“Reverse racism,” as well as “misandry” and “heterophobia” are not forms of oppression. The oppressed deconstructing, rejecting and fighting oppression does not then make the privileged become oppressed. The privileged have no “right” to oppress, so losing the opportunity to oppress does not make the privileged become oppressed. If the privileged measure their freedom based on how much they can oppress or not, the know nothing of actual freedom. Nothing."

Gradient Lair - Why Whites Call People Of Colour “Racist”

When a black person hates white people just because they are white, without even knowing them, that is racist.

 

[MizMolly]

This is a common song here at USMB.

“BUT BLACKS COMMIT MORE CRIMES”: Scholars discuss conservative logic
Todd Beer on July 25, 2016

Since 2014 there has been renewed interest, concern, and protest regarding the police use of deadly force against unarmed Blacks. Various conservative commentators and publications, as well as comments on other posts to this blog, have implied that the reason so many Blacks are killed by police is that Blacks are more likely to be involved in violent crime. For example, in an article in the National Review, David French writes, “Moreover, racial disparities in the use of force are largely explained by racial disparities in criminality. Different American demographics commit crimes at different rates, so it stands to reason that those who commit more crimes will confront the police more often.”

Below is the transcript of a conversation regarding this issue I had with three scholars, all of whom have studied the interaction of police and the African American community.

The scholars are:

RASHAWN RAY, Department of Sociology, University of Maryland.

CODY ROSS, Department of Anthropology, University of California, Davis

DON TOMASKOVIC-DEVEY, Department of Sociology, University of Massachusetts-Amherst.

Rashawn:

"The problem with this type of logic is that we assume that an entire group of people is responsible for the actions of some and that the entire group should be criminalized for it."

So in other words, because of the perception that Blacks commit more crimes this somehow justifies the fact that Black people are actually policed more. The problem is that this shouldn’t be the case. First, an overwhelming percentage of Blacks are not criminals and those that have been convicted of crimes, studies show that roughly 75% of Blacks in prison are in prison for nonviolent drug offenses. The other narrative is that Black neighborhoods are ubiquitously framed as being problematic and crime prone when in fact there are a plethora of predominantly Black neighborhoods around the country, one of which I happen to live in, that has extremely low crime rates and are not part of the narrative. On the other end of the spectrum, there are predominantly White neighborhoods that have high crime rates, but for some reason we leave these two types of neighborhoods out of the narrative as it relates to crime.

So what is happening is that an entire group of people who overwhelmingly are not committing crime and are not guilty, end up being criminalized because of the logic that people have about this.

“BUT BLACKS COMMIT MORE CRIMES”: Scholars discuss conservative logic - Sociology Toolbox

Then blacks need to stop lying about how dangerous their neighborhoods are.

The only reason we think black neighborhoods are so dangerous is because black people tell us that’s how it is.

How many documentaries have we seen with black kids crying about all the gun fire they hear? And how they all know someone who’s been killed by gang violence.

Why do blacks lie? Or exaggerate

That's a lie and you know it. Shut up trying to tell me about black neighborhoods and recognize the danger you ignore in your own. How many documentaries are done about safe low crime black communities WB? They do exist. In high numbers. I grew up in one.

You are delusional. The white neighborhoods are definitely not more dangerous than the black neighborhoods.

 

[gipper]

This is a common song here at USMB.

“BUT BLACKS COMMIT MORE CRIMES”: Scholars discuss conservative logic
Todd Beer on July 25, 2016

Since 2014 there has been renewed interest, concern, and protest regarding the police use of deadly force against unarmed Blacks. Various conservative commentators and publications, as well as comments on other posts to this blog, have implied that the reason so many Blacks are killed by police is that Blacks are more likely to be involved in violent crime. For example, in an article in the National Review, David French writes, “Moreover, racial disparities in the use of force are largely explained by racial disparities in criminality. Different American demographics commit crimes at different rates, so it stands to reason that those who commit more crimes will confront the police more often.”

Below is the transcript of a conversation regarding this issue I had with three scholars, all of whom have studied the interaction of police and the African American community.

The scholars are:

RASHAWN RAY, Department of Sociology, University of Maryland.

CODY ROSS, Department of Anthropology, University of California, Davis

DON TOMASKOVIC-DEVEY, Department of Sociology, University of Massachusetts-Amherst.

Rashawn:

"The problem with this type of logic is that we assume that an entire group of people is responsible for the actions of some and that the entire group should be criminalized for it."

So in other words, because of the perception that Blacks commit more crimes this somehow justifies the fact that Black people are actually policed more. The problem is that this shouldn’t be the case. First, an overwhelming percentage of Blacks are not criminals and those that have been convicted of crimes, studies show that roughly 75% of Blacks in prison are in prison for nonviolent drug offenses. The other narrative is that Black neighborhoods are ubiquitously framed as being problematic and crime prone when in fact there are a plethora of predominantly Black neighborhoods around the country, one of which I happen to live in, that has extremely low crime rates and are not part of the narrative. On the other end of the spectrum, there are predominantly White neighborhoods that have high crime rates, but for some reason we leave these two types of neighborhoods out of the narrative as it relates to crime.

So what is happening is that an entire group of people who overwhelmingly are not committing crime and are not guilty, end up being criminalized because of the logic that people have about this.

“BUT BLACKS COMMIT MORE CRIMES”: Scholars discuss conservative logic - Sociology Toolbox

Mangling of the language.. NOBODY SAYS (at least nobody well-read) that "Blacks commit more crimes"... NO fucking BODY...

What is correct is that blacks, especially in predominately black areas "ARE MORE LIKELY" to commit crimes.

The 2 assertions are entirely different and only confusing to you because you refuse to learn the basics of statistics...

Your conservative buddies are saying that repeatedly right here in this thread.

That's exactly what's so ironic and hypocritical here. Racists of ANY color tend to warp facts and abuse statistics in their favor.. The tactics USED by white racists are almost IDENTICAL to those used by Black racists.

Reasonable people are obliged to criticize them equally.....

Bullshit. Because what you call black racism isn't even racism. Reasonable people are obliged to criticize those like you who are trying to push this false equivalence.

Why Whites Call People Of Colour “Racist”

"I have been called “racist” by White people whenever I specifically reject a legislative, political, media/film/art, or cultural manifestation of White supremacy. I’ve also been called “racist” for recounting any experience that I have had with racism. The actual act of naming what I heard or experienced is deemed “racist.” The naming, deconstruction and discussion of experiences of this nature is important, however.

There’s two reasons why Whites call people of colour (especially Black people) “racist.” First of all, it comes from a lack of understanding of the term (through ignorance or willful ignorance and hatred), its history and its consequences. As long as “racism” is viewed solely as “one person being mean to another person because of their race” or basically solely as an individual and arbitrary instance of prejudice with equal social capital between the individuals, Whites can obscure or ignore the ramifications of the historical (whether implied, microaggressions or overt racism), institutional, structural and systemic manifestations of White supremacy (which does NOT require extremism to exist) and racism.

The rejection of White supremacy and racism themselves is not “reverse racism.” Rejecting White supremacy is not then telling Whites to be “ashamed” of Whiteness, as they should be able to live and thrive without the lie that is the claim of inherent superiority.

“Reverse racism,” as well as “misandry” and “heterophobia” are not forms of oppression. The oppressed deconstructing, rejecting and fighting oppression does not then make the privileged become oppressed. The privileged have no “right” to oppress, so losing the opportunity to oppress does not make the privileged become oppressed. If the privileged measure their freedom based on how much they can oppress or not, the know nothing of actual freedom. Nothing."

Gradient Lair - Why Whites Call People Of Colour “Racist”

You have stated many times your hatred for the white race. You have also stated your admiration of the black race. Doesn’t this indicate rather clearly that you are a racist?

 

[flacaltenn]

"I have been called “racist” by White people whenever I specifically reject a legislative, political, media/film/art, or cultural manifestation of White supremacy. I’ve also been called “racist” for recounting any experience that I have had with racism. The actual act of naming what I heard or experienced is deemed “racist.” The naming, deconstruction and discussion of experiences of this nature is important, however.

There's different levels of truth to "accounts of racism"... It's not TOTALLY objective and unequivocal.. Take those fantasy stories of intentional "radiation poisoning" or "spreading AIDs" in Africa that hit this forum last week.. Stories not validated by a SINGLE human rights or international aid group working on the continent..

Aint racist EVER to discuss the VALIDITY of the tales if they are not widely reported or reported with bias. So the author is a bit touchy on that subject and generalizes way too much...

Personal experiences, tho just anecdotal evidence, are great.. Because there's empathy and reality attached. NPR is mainly anecdotal tales carefully selected to tell stories folks can identify with.. Don't think ANY rational person would resort to calling racism on a personal experience.. BUT -- unless they are famous and live a very public life, there's little ability to verify them...

Obviously if this author ever lived on a message board and used the term "whites should just shut up" about discussing racism without KNOWING that person --- THAT would be racist...

 

[flacaltenn]

And like I said BEFORE you whipped me with that puff piece of analysis -- the tactics and words are SIMILAR for racism of any color... YOU haven't ever consider that apparently... Because it SEEMS that identifying racists in your mind, depends on their skin color and is somehow different....

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Conservatives: devoid of logic and reason, full of bigotry, racism, and hate.

 

[AveryJarhman]

#TheLargerIssue #SingleParenting #ChildNeglectMaltreatment #MentalHealth #Solutions

​

C_Clayton_Jones wrote, "Conservatives: devoid of logic and reason, full of bigotry, racism, and hate."

Hello, CCJ. I have a question regarding declarations of Racism.

Have you ever taken the time to critically examine the character and values, as well as $motivation$ embraced by Americans asserting Racism or "White Supremacy" continues impeding black or American citizens of African descent from enjoying equality, as well as loudly declaring Racism or "White Privilege" is preventing our black American or foreign born neighbors from achieving success during this point in America's on-going societal evolution.

CCJ, calmly reviewing evidence, unquestionably, it is clear in today's ever-evolving American society the primary obstacle impeding our peaceful black or American friends, neighbors and co-workers of African descent from experiencing equality, is IN FACT America's large community of freedom-loving, apparent illogical thinking, HATE-embracing PRO BLACK minded Americans choosing to LOUDLY, as well as actively IMPEDE or PREVENT our free-thinking, successful, accomplished black or American friends, neighbors and co-workers of African descent from peacefully pursuing THEIR OWN individual unique vision for L, L, (Love) & Happiness.

"Sell-out" "C^^n" and "Uncle Tom" are just a few HATEFUL, denigrating terms "Pro Black, Woke or Conscious Black Community" minded American citizens use to LOUDLY demean and INTIMIDATE our peaceful, free-thinking black American friends, neighbors and co-workers of African descent choosing to peacefully pursue THEIR OWN unique vision for L, L, (Love) & Happiness.

Sadly, PRO BLACK minded Americans like Dr. Umar Johnson, Ph.D, Dr. Shonna Etienne, Ph.D Dr. Boyce Watkins Watkins, Ph.D, and 'Anti-Racism Strategist' Tariq Nasheed have learned there is $BIG MONEY$ to be made from declaring RACISM, White Privilege and Supremacy are impeding black or American citizens of African descent from experiencing equality, success and prosperity all peaceful, reasonably responsible American and foreign born citizens are entitled to enjoy.

CCJ, even sadder is witnessing my so-called responsible, apparent 'White Guilt' embracing fellow American citizens sitting SILENT, allowing Americas PRO BLACK community's cries of RACISM and 'White Privilege' to influence and intimidate them, just as they INTIMIDATE and chastise our peaceful black American neighbors for acting "too white".

Become enlightened, YouTube search terms: "mental health illness black community"

CCJ, what is your opinion of the PRO BLACK community HATING, BULLYING, HARASSING, INTIMIDATING and DENIGRATING our peaceful, successful American and foreign born citizens?

​

Peace.
___
American *(Children)* Lives Matter; Take Pride In Parenting; *End Our Nation's *CHILD CARE* PUBLIC HEALTH CRISIS*; End Community Violence, Police Anxiety & Educator's Frustrations

 

[Snouter]

Not even sure if this is not a troll thread. Obviously Blacks commit way, way more street crime, random assaults, rapes, murders than any other race with latinos coming in second. Sorry. In fact, they actually get away a lot of times with no charges and very light sentences. Again, sorry to state facts that might hurt the feelings of insane Black Supremists like the Black Hebrew Israelites!

I have never been approached by a Latino asking for money, "bus fare," "train fare," "money for a sandwich," but invariably Blacks make those demands in democrat run cities. Meanwhile, they have never worked a day in their lives since they get rent paid, food paid, and free medical when they shoot each other with stolen guns.

 

[blastoff]

This is a common song here at USMB.

“BUT BLACKS COMMIT MORE CRIMES”: Scholars discuss conservative logic
Todd Beer on July 25, 2016

Since 2014 there has been renewed interest, concern, and protest regarding the police use of deadly force against unarmed Blacks. Various conservative commentators and publications, as well as comments on other posts to this blog, have implied that the reason so many Blacks are killed by police is that Blacks are more likely to be involved in violent crime. For example, in an article in the National Review, David French writes, “Moreover, racial disparities in the use of force are largely explained by racial disparities in criminality. Different American demographics commit crimes at different rates, so it stands to reason that those who commit more crimes will confront the police more often.”

Below is the transcript of a conversation regarding this issue I had with three scholars, all of whom have studied the interaction of police and the African American community.

The scholars are:

RASHAWN RAY, Department of Sociology, University of Maryland.

CODY ROSS, Department of Anthropology, University of California, Davis

DON TOMASKOVIC-DEVEY, Department of Sociology, University of Massachusetts-Amherst.

Rashawn:

"The problem with this type of logic is that we assume that an entire group of people is responsible for the actions of some and that the entire group should be criminalized for it."

So in other words, because of the perception that Blacks commit more crimes this somehow justifies the fact that Black people are actually policed more. The problem is that this shouldn’t be the case. First, an overwhelming percentage of Blacks are not criminals and those that have been convicted of crimes, studies show that roughly 75% of Blacks in prison are in prison for nonviolent drug offenses. The other narrative is that Black neighborhoods are ubiquitously framed as being problematic and crime prone when in fact there are a plethora of predominantly Black neighborhoods around the country, one of which I happen to live in, that has extremely low crime rates and are not part of the narrative. On the other end of the spectrum, there are predominantly White neighborhoods that have high crime rates, but for some reason we leave these two types of neighborhoods out of the narrative as it relates to crime.

So what is happening is that an entire group of people who overwhelmingly are not committing crime and are not guilty, end up being criminalized because of the logic that people have about this.

“BUT BLACKS COMMIT MORE CRIMES”: Scholars discuss conservative logic - Sociology Toolbox

Black logic has no conception of: per capita. None. Roughly 13% of the population commits disproportionate numbers of crimes year after year.

No argument from me there are some safe black neighborhoods. Not all blacks are criminals, same as any other race or demographic. And I’ll stipulate there may be high crime rate white neighborhoods you allege aren’t talked about. Maybe because they don’t measure up news-wise? I mean what’s white ‘high crime’ compared to the blood in the streets of black high crime neighborhoods from thousands and thousands of murders every year nationwide? It’s a black thing. Whites simply have no such neighborhoods anywhere in America.

You guys have a subculture of murder and mayhem in your community that can only be corrected from within. And you’re doing a shit job thus far.

 

[BS Filter]

This is a common song here at USMB.

“BUT BLACKS COMMIT MORE CRIMES”: Scholars discuss conservative logic
Todd Beer on July 25, 2016

Since 2014 there has been renewed interest, concern, and protest regarding the police use of deadly force against unarmed Blacks. Various conservative commentators and publications, as well as comments on other posts to this blog, have implied that the reason so many Blacks are killed by police is that Blacks are more likely to be involved in violent crime. For example, in an article in the National Review, David French writes, “Moreover, racial disparities in the use of force are largely explained by racial disparities in criminality. Different American demographics commit crimes at different rates, so it stands to reason that those who commit more crimes will confront the police more often.”

Below is the transcript of a conversation regarding this issue I had with three scholars, all of whom have studied the interaction of police and the African American community.

The scholars are:

RASHAWN RAY, Department of Sociology, University of Maryland.

CODY ROSS, Department of Anthropology, University of California, Davis

DON TOMASKOVIC-DEVEY, Department of Sociology, University of Massachusetts-Amherst.

Rashawn:

"The problem with this type of logic is that we assume that an entire group of people is responsible for the actions of some and that the entire group should be criminalized for it."

So in other words, because of the perception that Blacks commit more crimes this somehow justifies the fact that Black people are actually policed more. The problem is that this shouldn’t be the case. First, an overwhelming percentage of Blacks are not criminals and those that have been convicted of crimes, studies show that roughly 75% of Blacks in prison are in prison for nonviolent drug offenses. The other narrative is that Black neighborhoods are ubiquitously framed as being problematic and crime prone when in fact there are a plethora of predominantly Black neighborhoods around the country, one of which I happen to live in, that has extremely low crime rates and are not part of the narrative. On the other end of the spectrum, there are predominantly White neighborhoods that have high crime rates, but for some reason we leave these two types of neighborhoods out of the narrative as it relates to crime.

So what is happening is that an entire group of people who overwhelmingly are not committing crime and are not guilty, end up being criminalized because of the logic that people have about this.

“BUT BLACKS COMMIT MORE CRIMES”: Scholars discuss conservative logic - Sociology Toolbox

Black logic has no conception of: per capita. None. Roughly 13% of the population commits disproportionate numbers of crimes year after year.

No argument from me there are some safe black neighborhoods. Not all blacks are criminals, same as any other race or demographic. And I’ll stipulate there may be high crime rate white neighborhoods you allege aren’t talked about. Maybe because they don’t measure up news-wise? I mean what’s white ‘high crime’ compared to the blood in the streets of black high crime neighborhoods from thousands and thousands of murders every year nationwide? It’s a black thing. Whites simply have no such neighborhoods anywhere in America.

You guys have a subculture of murder and mayhem in your community that can only be corrected from within. And you’re doing a shit job thus far.

They're doing a shit job because of black beaurocrats and white liberals that blame whitey and cops for the problems of inner city crime. The corrupt politicians exploit black people, not fix their problems. Obama was the ultimate.