bush's new book getting him into trouble (admitting to waterboarding)

[Missourian]

I have a hard time viewing Waterboarding as "torture". We do it to our own soldiers. It is an effective interrogation technique, period.
*
Torture is eye gouging, electrical shock, cutting out of tongues, cutting off appendages, putting live bodies into shredders, etc..

*
You have obviously never served on active duty in combat or hazardous zones of operations, Zander. Your comments are yours, and they are worthless in this discussion.

*
Joke Stacky, you are a bald faced liar. Get the hell out of here and do something useful for a change...go spread your bullcrap in the pumpkin patch so we can all have good pie for Thanksgiving.

 

[Sallow]

And Obama's mother was a slut (look what she married) AND a commie who gave birth to the Muslim Marxist in the WH. Too bad he didn't die in a war too. Oh that's right, he would never go into the military. He hates this country.

Wishing the President's death..again?

Sheesh.

 

[martybegan]

No you can look cross-eye if you want to.

The United States signed it on April 18, 1988. The United States became the 63d nation to sign the convention, which was adopted by the UN General Assembly in December 1984 and entered into force on June 26, 1987, after it was ratified by 20 nations.

Then we were idiots. And again, lets see them enforce it. The UN has the same power as a 24V beenie hat propeller.

I hate to derail this into a tangent, but how do all you humanists propose we get intelligence information out of people we capture without any coercive methods?

If you go with the blank statement of "we cant do it' then fine. Next time we get gibbed by some extremist asshats anyone who has the position of we cant use anything coercive to get information out of captured combatants loses every moral standing to question why the government didnt stop the attack. We will just capture and try whoever we manage to snag, regardless of the intel we can have. That way your weak ass conciences can be safe, and more of our people can die. At least you will be able to sleep better at night, as you seem to care more about criminal scum than our own citizens.

The prisoners that were tortured may not be protected by the GC, but that didn't stop Bush's guilty conscience from writing an executive order that exempted the CIA from Common Article 3. He also vetoed a bill that would ban waterboarding. Add this evidence to the fact that we sentenced a sheriff to 10 years in prison for waterboarding in 1983 and I think it's pretty incriminating.

I also posted the true story about Abu Jandal, one of our most important prisoners, who gave us some of the best information we have about al-Qaeda because we gave him... sugarless cookies.

Torture is not necessary and is not even helpful. Once you torture or even coerce somebody forcefully enough, they will just start telling you what you want to hear. People have confessed to worshiping Satan and being witches under torture. The idea that it is a useful tool is a MYTH and is something for TV and not reality.

That aside, don't you think it's a little alarming that the Justice Department and the President basically changed the law because they disagreed with it?

A sherriff waterboarding a prisoner in a state prison is illegal. Again different set of rules. Prisoner in a criminal setting vs. enemy combatant.

and how do you know 100% that coercive interrogation doesnt work? Prove it is a myth. you can't.

The justice department based thier decison on executive privlidge and power. Just because you dont like it doesnt make it illegal.

 

[Samson]

amnesty international filed today:

US must begin criminal investigation of torture following Bush admission

Republican congressman: I have ‘no hesitation whatsoever’ in probing Bush for torture:

Republican congressman: I have ‘no hesitation whatsoever’ in probing Bush for torture | Raw Story

Not that a former president will ever be dealt real justice, but making sure his legacy of torture and hatred of the constitution stays alive is the least we can do

Horseshit.

This is just grandstanding.

Ironically, when you're selling a book, there's no such thing as bad publicity.

rawstory.com and amnestyusa.org are giving it away.

 

[martybegan]

Oh..the United States Constitution?

Let me help you with that..

Waterboarding was not used as a punishment, but as an interrogation technique. Also it was not used on citizens, but on non citizens declared to be fighting outisde of the laws of modern warfare.

The use was authorized at the highest level, and therefore was perfomed in a legal manner.

Just because you are against it doesnt make it illegal or unconstituitonal.

Actually..it does.

Amendment 5 - Trial and Punishment, Compensation for Takings. Ratified 12/15/1791.

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment 6 - Right to Speedy Trial, Confrontation of Witnesses. Ratified 12/15/1791.

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

Amendment 14 - Citizenship Rights. Ratified 7/9/1868. Note History

1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Conservatives are completely clueless about this document.

It's shocking.

Since they were declared enemy combatants, they have been given due process, and they have been determined to have no rights.

Why do we even capture these idiots? if you want to slather them in our rights we might as well give up and implement whatever system they want us to live under.

 

[mudwhistle]

You truly have no idea about any of this.

<snip: does not apply>

You have obviously not served either. Are you like Sean Hannitty, saying you will be boarded then run away like a little girl squealing? You non-military heroes are amazing to read.

Can you read me???

Have I, as you say, served???

 

[Sallow]

A sherriff waterboarding a prisoner in a state prison is illegal. Again different set of rules. Prisoner in a criminal setting vs. enemy combatant.

and how do you know 100% that coercive interrogation doesnt work? Prove it is a myth. you can't.

The justice department based thier decison on executive privlidge and power. Just because you dont like it doesnt make it illegal.

Executive priviledge is not in the United States Constitution. And the Constitution defines executive power. The whole notion of the Unitary Executive breached faith with the citizens of the United States and violated the United States Constitution.

 

[washamericom]

amnesty international filed today:

US must begin criminal investigation of torture following Bush admission

Republican congressman: I have ‘no hesitation whatsoever’ in probing Bush for torture:

Republican congressman: I have ‘no hesitation whatsoever’ in probing Bush for torture | Raw Story

Not that a former president will ever be dealt real justice, but making sure his legacy of torture and hatred of the constitution stays alive is the least we can do

in trouble with whom ??

 

[Sallow]

Waterboarding was not used as a punishment, but as an interrogation technique. Also it was not used on citizens, but on non citizens declared to be fighting outisde of the laws of modern warfare.

The use was authorized at the highest level, and therefore was perfomed in a legal manner.

Just because you are against it doesnt make it illegal or unconstituitonal.

Actually..it does.

Amendment 5 - Trial and Punishment, Compensation for Takings. Ratified 12/15/1791.

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment 6 - Right to Speedy Trial, Confrontation of Witnesses. Ratified 12/15/1791.

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

Amendment 14 - Citizenship Rights. Ratified 7/9/1868. Note History

1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Conservatives are completely clueless about this document.

It's shocking.

Since they were declared enemy combatants, they have been given due process, and they have been determined to have no rights.

Why do we even capture these idiots? if you want to slather them in our rights we might as well give up and implement whatever system they want us to live under.

Go back.

Read what I posted. Or read the Constitution.

 

[martybegan]

Actually..it does.



Conservatives are completely clueless about this document.

It's shocking.

Since they were declared enemy combatants, they have been given due process, and they have been determined to have no rights.

Why do we even capture these idiots? if you want to slather them in our rights we might as well give up and implement whatever system they want us to live under.

Go back.

Read what I posted. Or read the Constitution.

This would only apply to a person born here or naturalized. I agree you cannot use those techniques on american citizens. Where i do not see this applying is to basically brigands operating outside american and interntational law. They respect no treaties, so they deserve no protection.

To allow them the benefits of legal protection without them following the rules as well defeats the purpose of law and treaty. if they dont feel like following it, they abandon any protections and are at the whim of whoever captures them.

 

[barenakedislam]

And Obama's mother was a slut (look what she married) AND a commie who gave birth to the Muslim Marxist in the WH. Too bad he didn't die in a war too. Oh that's right, he would never go into the military. He hates this country.

Wishing the President's death..again?

Sheesh.

This is all I saw from you libscum for 8 years. You pigs paraded in every city with signs just like this and you never said a word about it. Look at the internet, there are hundreds if not thousands of those threat signs still out there. REAL threats.

 

[rightwinger]

Then we were idiots. And again, lets see them enforce it. The UN has the same power as a 24V beenie hat propeller.

I hate to derail this into a tangent, but how do all you humanists propose we get intelligence information out of people we capture without any coercive methods?

If you go with the blank statement of "we cant do it' then fine. Next time we get gibbed by some extremist asshats anyone who has the position of we cant use anything coercive to get information out of captured combatants loses every moral standing to question why the government didnt stop the attack. We will just capture and try whoever we manage to snag, regardless of the intel we can have. That way your weak ass conciences can be safe, and more of our people can die. At least you will be able to sleep better at night, as you seem to care more about criminal scum than our own citizens.

The prisoners that were tortured may not be protected by the GC, but that didn't stop Bush's guilty conscience from writing an executive order that exempted the CIA from Common Article 3. He also vetoed a bill that would ban waterboarding. Add this evidence to the fact that we sentenced a sheriff to 10 years in prison for waterboarding in 1983 and I think it's pretty incriminating.

I also posted the true story about Abu Jandal, one of our most important prisoners, who gave us some of the best information we have about al-Qaeda because we gave him... sugarless cookies.

Torture is not necessary and is not even helpful. Once you torture or even coerce somebody forcefully enough, they will just start telling you what you want to hear. People have confessed to worshiping Satan and being witches under torture. The idea that it is a useful tool is a MYTH and is something for TV and not reality.

That aside, don't you think it's a little alarming that the Justice Department and the President basically changed the law because they disagreed with it?

A sherriff waterboarding a prisoner in a state prison is illegal. Again different set of rules. Prisoner in a criminal setting vs. enemy combatant.

and how do you know 100% that coercive interrogation doesnt work? Prove it is a myth. you can't.

The justice department based thier decison on executive privlidge and power. Just because you dont like it doesnt make it illegal.

Human rights are human rights regardless of the uniform being worn. As soon as you start making excuses for torture, you are no better morally,than the forces of evil you claim to be fighting

The person performing torture always has a justification for why he does it. The victim deseres it, he is really saving lives, it is not really torture....the excuses haven't changed in thousands of years

 

[mudwhistle]

Since they were declared enemy combatants, they have been given due process, and they have been determined to have no rights.

Why do we even capture these idiots? if you want to slather them in our rights we might as well give up and implement whatever system they want us to live under.

Go back.

Read what I posted. Or read the Constitution.

This would only apply to a person born here or naturalized. I agree you cannot use those techniques on american citizens. Where i do not see this applying is to basically brigands operating outside american and interntational law. They respect no treaties, so they deserve no protection.

To allow them the benefits of legal protection without them following the rules as well defeats the purpose of law and treaty. if they dont feel like following it, they abandon any protections and are at the whim of whoever captures them.

This is all old arguments that a bunch of pissy libs brought up because they just got their asses handed to them.

The shit that goes on in other countries and these ingrates want to whine about somebody putting a wet towel over someone's face.

 

[mudwhistle]

The prisoners that were tortured may not be protected by the GC, but that didn't stop Bush's guilty conscience from writing an executive order that exempted the CIA from Common Article 3. He also vetoed a bill that would ban waterboarding. Add this evidence to the fact that we sentenced a sheriff to 10 years in prison for waterboarding in 1983 and I think it's pretty incriminating.

I also posted the true story about Abu Jandal, one of our most important prisoners, who gave us some of the best information we have about al-Qaeda because we gave him... sugarless cookies.

Torture is not necessary and is not even helpful. Once you torture or even coerce somebody forcefully enough, they will just start telling you what you want to hear. People have confessed to worshiping Satan and being witches under torture. The idea that it is a useful tool is a MYTH and is something for TV and not reality.

That aside, don't you think it's a little alarming that the Justice Department and the President basically changed the law because they disagreed with it?

A sherriff waterboarding a prisoner in a state prison is illegal. Again different set of rules. Prisoner in a criminal setting vs. enemy combatant.

and how do you know 100% that coercive interrogation doesnt work? Prove it is a myth. you can't.

The justice department based thier decison on executive privlidge and power. Just because you dont like it doesnt make it illegal.

Human rights are human rights regardless of the uniform being worn. As soon as you start making excuses for torture, you are no better morally,than the forces of evil you claim to be fighting

The person performing torture always has a justification for why he does it. The victim deseres it, he is really saving lives, it is not really torture....the excuses haven't changed in thousands of years

Course only the left feels it was torture in the first place so that has to be decided. Might take about 30 years or so...but by then they'll have another whipping boy to go after.

 

[Trajan]

President Bush's main problem is the same problem most conservatives have..

They've never really read the United States Constitution.

oh I see, so the left is now is so concerned with the Constitution? who would have thought?

 

[Trajan]

amnesty international filed today:

US must begin criminal investigation of torture following Bush admission

Republican congressman: I have ‘no hesitation whatsoever’ in probing Bush for torture:

Republican congressman: I have ‘no hesitation whatsoever’ in probing Bush for torture | Raw Story

Not that a former president will ever be dealt real justice, but making sure his legacy of torture and hatred of the constitution stays alive is the least we can do

so will his 'accomplices' get the same treatment? Pelosi and the senate and house Select Intelligence committees who were briefed as to the water boarding?

 

[Political Junky]

Oh..the United States Constitution?

Let me help you with that..

Amendment 8 - Cruel and Unusual Punishment. Ratified 12/15/1791.

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted

Waterboarding was not used as a punishment, but as an interrogation technique. Also it was not used on citizens, but on non citizens declared to be fighting outisde of the laws of modern warfare.

The use was authorized at the highest level, and therefore was perfomed in a legal manner.

Just because you are against it doesnt make it illegal or unconstituitonal.

Never mind that we executed Japanese who used waterboarding on Americans.

 

[Trajan]

Oh..the United States Constitution?

Let me help you with that..

Waterboarding was not used as a punishment, but as an interrogation technique. Also it was not used on citizens, but on non citizens declared to be fighting outisde of the laws of modern warfare.

The use was authorized at the highest level, and therefore was perfomed in a legal manner.

Just because you are against it doesnt make it illegal or unconstituitonal.

Never mind that we executed Japanese who used waterboarding on Americans.

I have my issues with Nuremberg and the war trials of the Japanese etc.. but aside from that; do you know why the japanese who water boarded were executed?

 

[Missourian]

The prisoners that were tortured may not be protected by the GC, but that didn't stop Bush's guilty conscience from writing an executive order that exempted the CIA from Common Article 3. He also vetoed a bill that would ban waterboarding. Add this evidence to the fact that we sentenced a sheriff to 10 years in prison for waterboarding in 1983 and I think it's pretty incriminating.

I also posted the true story about Abu Jandal, one of our most important prisoners, who gave us some of the best information we have about al-Qaeda because we gave him... sugarless cookies.

Torture is not necessary and is not even helpful. Once you torture or even coerce somebody forcefully enough, they will just start telling you what you want to hear. People have confessed to worshiping Satan and being witches under torture. The idea that it is a useful tool is a MYTH and is something for TV and not reality.

That aside, don't you think it's a little alarming that the Justice Department and the President basically changed the law because they disagreed with it?

A sherriff waterboarding a prisoner in a state prison is illegal. Again different set of rules. Prisoner in a criminal setting vs. enemy combatant.

and how do you know 100% that coercive interrogation doesnt work? Prove it is a myth. you can't.

The justice department based thier decison on executive privlidge and power. Just because you dont like it doesnt make it illegal.

Human rights are human rights regardless of the uniform being worn. As soon as you start making excuses for torture, you are no better morally,than the forces of evil you claim to be fighting

The person performing torture always has a justification for why he does it. The victim deseres it, he is really saving lives, it is not really torture....the excuses haven't changed in thousands of years

You wish to speak of rights, what about the rights of innocent American civilians to live...compared to that, the right to not have water splashed it ones face runs a distant second.

You want the moral high ground, you can have it, I cede it willingly.

I'm not willing to sacrifice a love one for the moral high ground. Not one widow, grieving father or orphaned child will be consoled by the moral high ground and no sane person would trade the life of a husband, wife, father, mother, son or daughter for all the moral high ground in the universe.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

amnesty international filed today:

US must begin criminal investigation of torture following Bush admission

Republican congressman: I have ‘no hesitation whatsoever’ in probing Bush for torture:

Republican congressman: I have ‘no hesitation whatsoever’ in probing Bush for torture | Raw Story

Not that a former president will ever be dealt real justice, but making sure his legacy of torture and hatred of the constitution stays alive is the least we can do

People didn't know until now that terrorists had been waterboarded?