Bush's invisible tax increase

[Chris]

We are now seeing the effect of what George Bush Sr. called "voodoo economics".........

Inflation surges in July - Aug. 14, 2008

 

[editec]

OUCH!

Decreasing incomes, higher unemployment AND inflation, too?

Of course we can all take great comfort knowing that the top income tiers are doing splendidly... despite it all. They're real soldiers shoulding the burden of keeping the consumer-driven economy buying additional Rolexes and fancy yachts.

Those Atlases are real troopers, aren't they?

Maybe what we should do is decrease the taxes on the superwealthy, still further, and continue to increase the national debt so that the dollar's value declines even more.

I'm sure the neo-cons must be totally thrilled that they're finally killing the beast that was the American way of life.

Isn't there some other nation we can go to war with so we can speed up this process?

Surely we can piss away a couple trillion dollars more on something other than fixing our nation, can't we?

 

[Zoomie1980]

OUCH!

Decreasing incomes, higher unemployment AND inflation, too?

Of course we can all take great comfort knowing that the top income tiers are doing splendidly... despite it all. They're real soldiers shoulding the burden of keeping the consumer-driven economy buying additional Rolexes and fancy yachts.

Those Atlases are real troopers, aren't they?

Maybe what we should do is decrease the taxes on the superwealthy, still further, and continue to increase the national debt so that the dollar's value declines even more.

I'm sure the neo-cons must be totally thrilled that they're finally killing the beast that was the American way of life.

Isn't there some other nation we can go to war with so we can speed up this process?

Surely we can piss away a couple trillion dollars more on something other than fixing our nation, can't we?

What gets me is the Fed and policy makers will now use June inflation numbers, a month in which oil and gasoline EXPLODED in price to make policy on, when anyone with a brain larger than a walnut can see that gasoline is down .50 or more in just three weeks and grain prices down as well, and when August number come out some time in October, we may have JOLTED from modest inflation into a DEFLATIONARY period just like that!! Energy prices control EVERYTHING. When they go up EVERYTHING goes up, when the come down, most things level out or even DECLINE. Add to that continuing falling real estate values....

 

[Zoomie1980]

OUCH!

Decreasing incomes, higher unemployment AND inflation, too?

Of course we can all take great comfort knowing that the top income tiers are doing splendidly... despite it all. They're real soldiers shoulding the burden of keeping the consumer-driven economy buying additional Rolexes and fancy yachts.

Those Atlases are real troopers, aren't they?

Maybe what we should do is decrease the taxes on the superwealthy, still further, and continue to increase the national debt so that the dollar's value declines even more.

I'm sure the neo-cons must be totally thrilled that they're finally killing the beast that was the American way of life.

Isn't there some other nation we can go to war with so we can speed up this process?

Surely we can piss away a couple trillion dollars more on something other than fixing our nation, can't we?

Has nothing to do with taxes. Tax revenues are virtually 100% tied to the economy, not to tax rates. Changing tax rates a few points up or down has virtually NO long term impact on revenues.

What we MUST do is stop spending. Raise SS age to 70 or 75. Do something about rampant FRAUD in Medicade and Medicare. Do something serious about the completely BROKEN Military procurement system and contract award system.

 

[BruceWayne]

Has nothing to do with taxes. Tax revenues are virtually 100% tied to the economy, not to tax rates. Changing tax rates a few points up or down has virtually NO long term impact on revenues.

What we MUST do is stop spending. Raise SS age to 70 or 75. Do something about rampant FRAUD in Medicade and Medicare. Do something serious about the completely BROKEN Military procurement system and contract award system.

That's not really true.
Claim That Tax Cuts “Pay For Themselves” Is Too Good To Be True: Data Show No “Free Lunch” Here, Revised 7/27/06

In 1981, Congress approved very large supply-side tax cuts, dramatically lowering marginal income-tax rates. In 1990 and 1993, by contrast, Congress raised marginal income-tax rates on the well off. Despite the very different tax policies followed during these two decades, there was virtually no difference in real per-person economic growth in the 1980s and 1990s. Real per-person revenues, however, grew about twice as quickly in the 1990s, when taxes were increased, as in the 1980s, when taxes were cut.

 

[editec]

Has nothing to do with taxes. Tax revenues are virtually 100% tied to the economy, not to tax rates. Changing tax rates a few points up or down has virtually NO long term impact on revenues.

Roll back the tax breaks for billionaires and I can assure you that will have an impact on revenues to the benefit of the deficit.

What we MUST do is stop spending. Raise SS age to 70 or 75. Do something about rampant FRAUD in Medicade and Medicare. Do something serious about the completely BROKEN Military procurement system and contract award system.

Good ideas, basically. Details are where the teat hits the fan, though.

 

[Article 15]

What we MUST do is stop spending. Raise SS age to 70 or 75. Do something about rampant FRAUD in Medicade and Medicare. Do something serious about the completely BROKEN Military procurement system and contract award system.

How about we do that ... add a cut off date for eligibilty ... then cease benefits altogether?

I'd be willing to pay into the system for the next 10-20 years ... not get anything in return ... all in exchange for the abolishion of SS ... for the greater good ... you know ... sacrificing to correct the errs of generations before mine.

 

[Chris]

Has nothing to do with taxes. Tax revenues are virtually 100% tied to the economy, not to tax rates. Changing tax rates a few points up or down has virtually NO long term impact on revenues.

What we MUST do is stop spending. Raise SS age to 70 or 75. Do something about rampant FRAUD in Medicade and Medicare. Do something serious about the completely BROKEN Military procurement system and contract award system.

Sorry, I did not make myself clear. When you cut taxes and increase spending that huge deficit creates inflation which is an invisible tax increase.

 

[Zoomie1980]

That's not really true.
Claim That Tax Cuts “Pay For Themselves” Is Too Good To Be True: Data Show No “Free Lunch” Here, Revised 7/27/06

Tax revenues are a reflection of the economy, period. Tax rates are irrelevant, at least in the amounts they are adjusted to in this country (never more than a few percentage points either way).

It's the ECONOMY, stupid....

 

[Zoomie1980]

Sorry, I did not make myself clear. When you cut taxes and increase spending that huge deficit creates inflation which is an invisible tax increase.

Tax revenues reflect the economy. Nothing else matters.

Want to really cut deficits, STOP SPENDING.

 

[Chris]

Tax revenues reflect the economy. Nothing else matters.

Want to really cut deficits, STOP SPENDING.

What a silly thing to say. It all matters.

If you cut taxes and increase spending, it creates HUGE DEFICITS.

 

[Zoomie1980]

What a silly thing to say. It all matters.

If you cut taxes and increase spending, it creates HUGE DEFICITS.

We don't cut taxes, we cut tax RATES. That has almost NEVER resulted in smaller tax revenues, quite the opposite. Actual Tax revenues are almost ENTIRELY a function of ECONOMIC activity. When we stop spending money, sales tax revenue goes down. When incomes decline, income tax revenue drops. When we conserve fuel, highway revenue drops. When we stop smoking, cigarrete tax revenue goes down. Tax RATE changes, at the amounts we always adjust them have NO IMPACT.

 

[Chris]

We don't cut taxes, we cut tax RATES. That has almost NEVER resulted in smaller tax revenues, quite the opposite. Actual Tax revenues are almost ENTIRELY a function of ECONOMIC activity. When we stop spending money, sales tax revenue goes down. When incomes decline, income tax revenue drops. When we conserve fuel, highway revenue drops. When we stop smoking, cigarrete tax revenue goes down. Tax RATE changes, at the amounts we always adjust them have NO IMPACT.

$8 trillion and counting.....

ReaganBushDebt.org

 

[Orange_Juice]

Tax revenues are a reflection of the economy, period. Tax rates are irrelevant, at least in the amounts they are adjusted to in this country (never more than a few percentage points either way).

It's the ECONOMY, stupid....

That's just stupid! Tax rates are important! Of course the size of the economy matters but so does how large a share the government takes in.

 

[Orange_Juice]

Sorry, I did not make myself clear. When you cut taxes and increase spending that huge deficit creates inflation which is an invisible tax increase.

Exactly, when Bush and Republicans create deficits the dollar falls and imports are more expensive. Since we now import almost 70% of our oil, we pay for it. Its a regressive tax to pay for the tax cuts for the wealthy

 

[jreeves]

Exactly, when Bush and Republicans create deficits the dollar falls and imports are more expensive. Since we now import almost 70% of our oil, we pay for it. Its a regressive tax to pay for the tax cuts for the wealthy

Like this right....god you all are stupid...




But I agree we import way to much of our oil which is why we need to drill here in the US. Which Pelosi and other democrats have blocked at all costs.

 

[Chris]

I agree that we need to drill here, but we also need to mandate fuel efficiency standards for cars and develop alternative energy. As long as the Republicans are in power the latter two will never happen.

 

[Zoomie1980]

Exactly, when Bush and Republicans create deficits the dollar falls and imports are more expensive. Since we now import almost 70% of our oil, we pay for it. Its a regressive tax to pay for the tax cuts for the wealthy

There has never been a fall off of tax revenue after a tax cut. Not ever. We have seen spending go through the roof that causes large deficits, though.

Tax revenue in the United States is 100% a function of economic activity. When it is active and thriving, revenues rise, when it slows, they fall.

The villain is SPENDING. We have to stop SPENDING, because there is NO support moving tax rates far enough in either direction to ever make a difference. Of course, out politicians have NEVER cut spending at all throughout history.

So the debt will continue forever and I simply don't care how big it gets. It is irrelevant.

 

[Chris]

There has never been a fall off of tax revenue after a tax cut. Not ever. We have seen spending go through the roof that causes large deficits, though.

Tax revenue in the United States is 100% a function of economic activity. When it is active and thriving, revenues rise, when it slows, they fall.

The villain is SPENDING. We have to stop SPENDING, because there is NO support moving tax rates far enough in either direction to ever make a difference. Of course, out politicians have NEVER cut spending at all throughout history.

So the debt will continue forever and I simply don't care how big it gets. It is irrelevant.

Spending is only one half of the ledger. Cutting taxes while increasing spending creates HUGE deficits, 8 trillion and counting.....

ReaganBushDebt.org

 

[jreeves]

Spending is only one half of the ledger. Cutting taxes while increasing spending creates HUGE deficits, 8 trillion and counting.....

ReaganBushDebt.org

The recent deficits are fueled by spending growing exponentially. Tax revenues have continued to increase while spending has morphed the recent gains in tax revenue....