Bush Uses First Veto To Restrict Scientific Research

[Redhots]

"Embryos and JUNK????" WOW

Anyway point is adult stem cells are just as good, readily available and even better is when we run out of embryonic stem cells we don't need to kill more babies to acquire them.... isn't that neeto?????????

No, the point is we don't really know enough yet. Hampering research by outlawing government sources of funding isn't going to help.

As far as "killing babies" goes I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it would be pointless to argue that point with you... so I wont.

 

[Redhots]

Why aren't private research companies saving these people?

There isn't any money in it yet.

 

[Gunny]

I think we should use the money that pays for abstinence only research and government-funded studies on the power of prayer to save lives.

Notice a pattern here?

Gee...no one complains about the money spent on that stuff. Why only about something that saves lives? Hmmmmmm....

Really? What life has stem cell research saved?

And, as Avatar points out, there is no restriction on stem cell research. Only on the Federal funding of it.

 

[Bonnie]

No, the point is we don't really know enough yet. Hampering research by outlawing government sources of funding isn't going to help.

As far as "killing babies" goes I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it would be pointless to argue that point with you... so I wont.

That's incorrect, plenty of studies have shown adult stem cells to be just as or even better, and plenty of money has been spent. There are a limited number of embryo cells to use..what happens when we run out...MAKE MORE!! That's the point

 

[Mr.Conley]

That's incorrect, plenty of studies have shown adult stem cells to be just as or even better, and plenty of money has been spent. There are a limited number of embryo cells to use..what happens when we run out...MAKE MORE!! That's the point

Did you bother to read my post from the Chicago Tribune?

 

[Avatar4321]

It really is amazing how people can twist things... since human stem cell research wasn't around for any other president to take a stand on. Except for Bill Clinton, but by time that came up he had maybe a year left in office... he allowed federal funding by the way.

Ive already addressed this, You missed my point completely.

His opponents want people to believe he is the preventing embryonic research when he is the first president to support it.

You keep wanting to deny that. But its a fact.

 

[Avatar4321]

There isn't any money in it yet.

So naturally we make the government pay for research and then companies make the money off it.

This is exactly why companies should be doing the research. They are the ones going to make the money off it.

 

[Avatar4321]

Really? What life has stem cell research saved?

And, as Avatar points out, there is no restriction on stem cell research. Only on the Federal funding of it.

Glad someone actually reads what I write. No one is stopping any sort of stem cell research.

 

[jillian]

Why aren't private research companies saving these people?

You've been given the answer to that, repeatedly. The government pays for all kinds of research which is THEN done by private companies. This is seed money.

And, ultimately, it was Bush's grandstanding for the extremists... that (thankfully) teeny part of this country who puts "potential" life above the living. Me? I think Mr P used the right word when he called this immoral.

Oh...and for all the folk who are going to talk about the poor "unborn".... 1) we're talking largely about using frozen embryos which are never going to be used for anything; and 2) why not put fetal tissue to good use when not using it doesn't change anything?

And think about this.... After 6 years *THIS* is the issue that made him veto a bill???? One that could save lives????

 

[rtwngAvngr]

You've been given the answer to that, repeatedly. The government pays for all kinds of research which is THEN done by private companies. This is seed money.

And, ultimately, it was Bush's grandstanding for the extremists... that (thankfully) teeny part of this country who puts "potential" life above the living. Me? I think Mr P used the right word when he called this immoral.

Oh...and for all the folk who are going to talk about the poor "unborn".... 1) we're talking largely about using frozen embryos which are never going to be used for anything; and 2) why not put fetal tissue to good use when not using it doesn't change anything?

And think about this.... After 6 years *THIS* is the issue that made him veto a bill???? One that could save lives????

We know what it is, jillian. The fact is the private sector has come up with many cures all on their own. Quit crying that the government won't fund your nazi death cult human experimentation

 

[theHawk]

Why doesn't George Soros and the “Democracy Alliance” step up to the plate and privately fund it? ... oh yeah ... nevermind.:duh3:

How dare you imply Liberals open up their own wallets and donate to the causes they believe in. Thats what the American Taxpayer is for.

 

[Avatar4321]

You've been given the answer to that, repeatedly. The government pays for all kinds of research which is THEN done by private companies. This is seed money.

And, ultimately, it was Bush's grandstanding for the extremists... that (thankfully) teeny part of this country who puts "potential" life above the living. Me? I think Mr P used the right word when he called this immoral.

Oh...and for all the folk who are going to talk about the poor "unborn".... 1) we're talking largely about using frozen embryos which are never going to be used for anything; and 2) why not put fetal tissue to good use when not using it doesn't change anything?

And think about this.... After 6 years *THIS* is the issue that made him veto a bill???? One that could save lives????

What is amazing in all this is how badly the left wants the federal government to fund the research that is going to make all these companies so much money. The research is going to be done regardless and the companies are going to make money off it regardless. But somehow the tax payers are the one who should spend all the money researching it.

If the federal government is going to spend money on it, the government should get the profit and the people should be given huge tax breaks because the government would then be self sufficient.

And you dont seem to understand. He vetoed the bill to save lives. The last thing the government should be funding is funding that terminates lives

 

[Bullypulpit]

If fetal stem-cell research "...crosses a moral boundary that our decent society needs to respect...", then why isn't Chimpy pushing to outlaw it entirely?

It's not a moral issue for him, it's an economic issue. Private funds can be used for stem-cell research with the discarded blastocysts from IVF clinics. These private interests will have proprietary interests in any treatments derived from this research. Were government funding used to further this research, the findings would be generally available to develop treatments and make those treatmments more widely available than if their development was left solely in the hands of private interests.

Chimpy is a hypocrite, throwing red meat to the religious right-wing nuts in the GOP. His concern for the "emerging human life" represented by a few undifferentiated cells rings hollow in the face of his utter disregard for human lives that already exist.

 

[Avatar4321]

If fetal stem-cell research "...crosses a moral boundary that our decent society needs to respect...", then why isn't Chimpy pushing to outlaw it entirely?

It's not a moral issue for him, it's an economic issue. Private funds can be used for stem-cell research with the discarded blastocysts from IVF clinics. These private interests will have proprietary interests in any treatments derived from this research. Were government funding used to further this research, the findings would be generally available to develop treatments and make those treatmments more widely available than if their development was left solely in the hands of private interests.

Chimpy is a hypocrite, throwing red meat to the religious right-wing nuts in the GOP. His concern for the "emerging human life" represented by a few undifferentiated cells rings hollow in the face of his utter disregard for human lives that already exist.

Lets look at this rationally:

Those who things its morally wrong: Happy because their tax money isnt supporting it.

Those who want to make a profit: Still happy because regardless whether they pay the research cost or the government does, they will make money.

Those wanting cures: Happy because if a cure can be found its going to be found if the government pays for the research or a company does.

Those who want to prevent the expansion of more government: Happy

The only people who should have a problem with this are the ones who want to have the government grow unnecessarily.

I am just sick and tired of people like you who feel the need to lie about what has really happened and pretend as though the President has prevented people from getting cures. Federal money wont change that. In fact, whenever government gets involved in something that doesnt include destroying or killing people its an utter failure.

 

[Redhots]

Ive already addressed this.

I had some catching up to do and didn't reach that part untill after I made the post. :duh3:

I try to edit posts as little as possible.

 

[red states rule]

Libs have little use for babies, unless their candidates are kissing them. Take Joe Klein.........

http://newsbusters.org/node/6549
Apparently the sight of George W. Bush surrounded by cute babies is enough to make Time's Joe Klein "want to throw up." On this weekend's syndicated Chris Matthews Show, the panel discussion turned to Bush's veto of expanded stem cell research and his appearance with "snowflake babies." For Time magazine's Joe Klein it was too much to take: "That photo-op, this week with all of those babies made me want to throw up. It is so transparently political and cynical."

Substituting for Chris Matthews, NBC's David Gregory teased the segment at the top of the show: "Most voters favor full-speed ahead on stem cells but the President hit the brakes. Could this be political disaster in November?" Gregory opened the panel discussion with a soundbite from Nancy Pelosi declaring: "In vetoing the legislation, the President will be saying no to 75 percent of the American people." NBC's Andrea Mitchell then noted that while the veto will energize some in Bush's base it also: "Doesn't track at all politically with people in his own party, with, you know, the soccer moms, with other constituencies that Republicans have been trying to court. It flies in the face of that." Gregory then threw it to Klein:

Gregory: "Joe, is he trying to thread a needle here? I mean, this is for the base that's angry with him on immigration, over the war. But there's a lot of moderates in suburban districts, Republicans who say, ‘Hey, wait a minute, you're on the wrong side of this.'"

Klein: "And there's another aspect to this as well. That photo-op, this week with all of those babies made me want to throw up. It is so transparently political and cynical. I mean, you know, I think that the real thing that the Republican campaign Karl Rove is flying into is whether the level of his cynicism about all of these issues, and these sorts of photo-ops is gonna become an issue in this campaign itself. Are people gonna say, ‘How dumb do they think we are?'"

The following is a full transcript of the exchange:

Gregory: "Welcome back. Political science. Even though huge bipartisan majorities of the House and Senate approved federal money for expanded stem cell research, George Bush vetoed it. Democrats think they see a winner for November. Here's Nancy Pelosi."

[Nancy Pelosi: "In vetoing the legislation, the President will be saying no to 75 percent of the American people."]

Gregory: "Andrea, Nancy Pelosi is right. The public is for expanded federal money for this kind of research. Politically, though, does this have an impact in the fall?"

Mitchell: "It has an impact, I think, because this is a way to energize George Bush's base. And that's the only conceivable reason to do this, is to get people excited, the people who come out and vote..."

Gregory: "Right."

Mitchell: "...about his position on this, which doesn't track at all politically with people in his own party, with, you know, the soccer moms, with other constituencies that Republicans have been trying to court. It flies in the face of that, and there are also other critics who would say, ‘This is your first veto? After all that pork?' So you've got conservative Republicans screaming about the fiscal irresponsibility of this Congress who are stunned that this would be where he would choose to make his stand."

Gregory: "Joe, is he trying to thread a needle here? I mean, this is for the base that's angry with him on immigration, over the war. But there's a lot of moderates in suburban districts, Republicans who say, ‘Hey, wait a minute, you're on the wrong side of this.'"

Klein: "And there's another aspect to this as well. That photo-op, this week with all of those babies made me want to throw up. It is so transparently political and cynical. I mean, you know, I think that the real thing that the Republican campaign Karl Rove is flying into is whether the level of his cynicism about all of these issues, and these sorts of photo-ops is gonna become an issue in this campaign itself. Are people gonna say, ‘How dumb do they think we are?'"

Gregory: "David, the bottom line is that those so-called snowflake babies, where the embryos and cells are donated to people who can't have children on their own, if it's not used for research, most of them are destroyed, not actually donated to other people. David Ignatius, in a race like Missouri, where this is an issue, where Jim Talent is being challenged by McCaskill there over this issue that's on the ballot in the fall, does it resonate?"

David Ignatius, Washington Post: "Well, it seems to. McCaskill seems to be making a lot, a lot of progress. My sense is that this is like the Terri Schiavo issue that we, that we saw earlier, where the, the average voter looks at this question of stem cell research and thinks, ‘This is about my health, this is about my parents, this is about, you know, diseases I might get and ways that they might be cured.' And I, and I think that that's the danger for the president. In animating his base, he animates everybody else on an issue that, that really hurts him."

Mitchell: "And there's another Republican constituency, which is the business community, business and research communities that are stunned that all of this research is moving overseas and has been for a couple of years now."

Gregory: "Chrystia, do you want to add something?"

Chrystia Freeland, Financial Times: "Well, I think it really highlights the danger for, as viewed by the majority of this really black and white moralizing on issues. And so there can be something sort of philosophically beautiful about a moral consistency that says ‘a fetus is human, so even if it's one, a one-day-old embryo, that's human.' But when people start thinking, ‘This is blocking research that could save my mother who has Parkinson's,' I don't think they're gonna bluff that."

 

[Mr.Conley]

I love taking hyperbolic statements out of context. Do you love taking hyperbolic statements out of context?

 

[red states rule]

I love taking hyperbolic statements out of context. Do you love taking hyperbolic statements out of context?

What is "out of context" to liberals - printing what they say word for word?