Bush Strategy Has Aided Terrorism

[Taomon]

If it wasn't for cowardly liberals and Democrats we wouldn't be divided as a nation....we would all support our agreed upon foreign plicy....
And a crumbling economy is but a figment of your imagination at present...

First of all, my post was not talking about the perps who drove the planes into the buildings on 9/11, it was about al Qaeda, Osama bin Laden and the financial infrastructure that allowed these guys to commit that crime...and it was a crime.

Secondly, not all people in America agree with your assumption of the foreign policy. Perhaps you don't want to live in a free society. Perhaps it would suit you if America was a closed society and everyone just did as they were told.

If that is the case, I am sorry to tell you that there are many more people who disagree with you. And that means you cannot have that closed society where liberals and democrats cannot speak their mind or exercise their rights.

But the point you were trying to make is that our foreign policies are agreed upon. That is not true. In fact, our foreign policies are corrupt, hegemonic, illegal and immoral.

 

[Taomon]

Bullshit, and you know it. We DID finish the job in Afghanistan once already. If Bush had given the order to invade Pakistan against Pakistan's wishes you'd be on the front line of cryin' in your wheaties over THAT just as you are Iraq.

GMAFB.

If the job was finished in Afghanistan, why are we still fighting the Taliban there?

And by the way, the Taliban did eradicate poppy growth. When we drove the Taliban out poppy production started right back up again.

How do you feel about heroin use in America gunny?

 

[Taomon]

WRONG!

We needed to carpet bomb any and all areas where we thought the Taliban dominated the population and/or contained Al-Queda. And we needed to do this immediately following 9/11 in such a way that they would not expect it (so quck) and thus not have gone to ground. It would have been best to give the Taliban a week to hand over Bin-Ladin and then bomb them within 48 hours. There would have been some collateral damage but the losses would have been far less than what has been suffered through the manner in which Afghanistan has been dealt with.

The US had the imperative to respond to 9/11 in a very harsh manner right after the event and no one would have blamed us for the collateral damage as long as it was clear Taliban/AQ were the targets. But this was only true for a few days following 9/11, after that diplomacy is expected to play a part in the response. Its silly but that's how things work.

And I have a bridge to sell you. Do you know who the largest casualties of our bombing campaigns in Afghanistan are? The civilian population.

You are way off on this one dude.

 

[rayboyusmc]

[QUOTEBullshit, and you know it. We DID finish the job in Afghanistan once already. If Bush had given the order to invade Pakistan against Pakistan's wishes you'd be on the front line of cryin' in your wheaties over THAT just as you are Iraq][/QUOTE]

How did we finish it? That is total bullshit. We took our eye off them to fight in Iraq. That left them time and opportunity to rebuild. We let them escape from Tora Bora. Now they are back possibly stronger than before.

At that time, Before the Iraq Fuck up, if Pakistan was sheltering the Taliban and they are the ones who were responsible for 9-11, I would have been all for invading. Most of America would have been for it. It's the current five year fuck up in Iraq that has changed people's opinion. Please don't twist the the fucking story.

It is Iraq that is the fukc up. It is Iraq that let to the resurgence in Afghanistan. Shit, read the history of what has happened.

Bush and company are not only criminals they are fucking stupid.

Take your wheaties and shove them.

 

[nibor]

If the job was finished in Afghanistan, why are we still fighting the Taliban there?

And by the way, the Taliban did eradicate poppy growth. When we drove the Taliban out poppy production started right back up again.

How do you feel about heroin use in America gunny?

I don't think the taliban ever eradicated anything but statues, which we paid them $67,000,000.00 to stop three months before attacking them, sorta like paying for the material damages before the gangfight and making sure they had enough FREAKIN WEAPONS AND BULLETS................

All they've ever produced is weed, hashish, opium,and heroin being the upstanding citizens that they are.........................

 

[maineman]

Suggesting? No...I'm saying flat out the almost all of the slime that hit Clinton was of his own making....

The Republicans didn't plant prohibited FBI files in the White House....

The Republicans didn't compel Hillary to fire the employees of the White House Travel Office without cause...

The Republicans didn't send Paula Jones to then Gov. Clintons room to see if the pervert would expose himself to her....

The Republicans didn't match Flowers with Clinton so he could cheat on his wife...commit adultery, etc....

The Republicans didn't send Monica into the Oval Office to give Clinton oral sex.....

The Republicans didn't cause Foster to take his life...but something did...

The Republicans didn't compel Clinton to lie under oath in a legal deposition, and obstruct justice....but I'm proud the R's did their duty and at least tryed to get Justice to prevail....

So blaming the Republicans is just a crock of bullshit .... the Clintons were responsible for every scandal that hit them...and they walked away as clean a OJ from a double murder.....

R's don't accuse the Clintons with illegally posessing the FBI files...its fact
R's don't accuse Clinton of exposing himself to Jones....she does
R's don't accuse Clinton of having an affair with Flowers...She proved it....
R's don't accuse Clinton of getting oral sex in the Oval Office....He admits it...
R's don't accuse Clinton of lying under oath....He admits that, too...
R's did bring impeachment on Clinton, and the facts show he was quilty as charged and was acquitted by loyalists that would rather ignore the facts.....
Because there happen to be a few right wing nuts that accuse the Clinton on murder or other off the wall is not and never was taken seriously by anyone...and its just some much crap to cloud other issues....

The slime and lying innuendo hitting Bush has gone on 27/7 for 7 yrs...
Some real slimeballs even accusing his wife of DUI and murder....

If Ted Kennedy has been called a "murderer", Laura ain't far behind, is she?

Both involved in traffic accidents that caused someone's death. Republicans have villified Ted for his error for decades, yet completely FORGET about Laura's error. That was always my point. Fucking hypocrites, and you are the king.

And you are such a partisan shit... republicans can castigate the president about his use of the military while troops are on the ground in Bosnia and that doesn't count for SHIT with you... Republicans can accuse the President of murdering Vince Foster and hold congressional hearings about it and that doesnt't count for SHIT with you... but Bush can lie us into a war that costs a half a trillion dollars, 31K dead and wounded Americans, and democrats are slimeballs in your eyes for being upset at that squandering of blood and treasure. Fuck off write...you are, and have always been, a koolaid soaked partisan shithead.

AND, I can kick your ancient ass all over the golf course.

 

[Taomon]

I don't think the taliban ever eradicated anything but statues, which we paid them $67,000,000.00 to stop three months before attacking them, sorta like paying for the material damages before the gangfight and making sure they had enough FREAKIN WEAPONS AND BULLETS................

All they've ever produced is weed, hashish, opium,and heroin being the upstanding citizens that they are.........................

You might want to research this one dude. The Taliban banned all poppy production in Afghanistan. This is a fact. And how many poppy fields are in Afghanistan now?

 

[nibor]

You might want to research this one dude. The Taliban banned all poppy production in Afghanistan. This is a fact. And how many poppy fields are in Afghanistan now?

When did they do that Tao, because I saw pictures brought back from Afghanistan taken by a forward machine gunner from the Tenth Mountain Division who was there for 1 1/2 years, his boots were with the first feet on the ground, and the valley length pictures were poppies as far as the pictures could depict............And from what he told me, with the amount of valleys there's absolutely no way they'll stop it, um I think you should reseach it............especially because last year they harvested more than EVER BEFORE and that ain't eradication.........

http://opioids.com/afghanistan/bumper-harvest.html


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/cc6c18fc-0b56-11db-b97f-0000779e2340.html um..............


http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/2005_Afghan_opium_harvest_begins I think um......................

 

[Taomon]

When did they do that Tao, because I saw pictures brought back from Afghanistan taken by a forward machine gunner from the Tenth Mountain Division who was there for 1 1/2 years, his boots were with the first feet on the ground, and the valley length pictures were poppies as far as the pictures could depict............And from what he told me, with the amount of valleys there's absolutely no way they'll stop it, um I think you should reseach it............especially because last year they harvested more than EVER BEFORE and that ain't eradication.........

http://opioids.com/afghanistan/bumper-harvest.html


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/cc6c18fc-0b56-11db-b97f-0000779e2340.html um..............


http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/2005_Afghan_opium_harvest_begins I think um......................

After Russia was defeated and after the Taliban took over Afghanistan, during the 1990s. That was when the Taliban eradicated poppy production.

 

[Taomon]

http://opioids.com/afghanistan/bumper-harvest.html


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/cc6c18fc-0b56-11db-b97f-0000779e2340.html um..............


http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/2005_Afghan_opium_harvest_begins I think um......................

Um, did you see the dates of those articles? Dude, as I clearly stated, poppy production was brought back to Afghanistan after the US bombing began in 2001. After the Taliban was removed.

Do you live in a vacuum?

 

[nibor]

Um, did you see the dates of those articles? Dude, as I clearly stated, poppy production was brought back to Afghanistan after the US bombing began in 2001. After the Taliban was removed.

Do you live in a vacuum?

A vaccuum..........um Tao the crop was there when we landed, it WAS NOT TOUCHED BY US...................and today they are record harvesting............where's the vaccuum?????

maybe when they were fighting the Soviets they didn't get enough time to harvest as much...............although I seem to remember someone admitting to trading arms for drugs at that time......................hmmmmmmmm, oh yeah RONALD!

 

[Taomon]

A vaccuum..........um Tao the crop was there when we landed, it WAS NOT TOUCHED BY US...................and today they are record harvesting............where's the vaccuum?????

maybe when they were fighting the Soviets they didn't get enough time to harvest as much...............although I seem to remember someone admitting to trading arms for drugs at that time......................hmmmmmmmm, oh yeah RONALD!

Dude, you are blind. Go check it out for yourself,there are plenty of credible sources - even our own government maintains that the Taliban eradicated poppy production. The poppy fields were not brought back until the Taliban was routed out. That is a fact, again, maintained by our own government.

You believe your friend over the official records, which goes beyond Bush & the White House. The UN even acknowledges that the Taliban, as horrible a regime as it was, did eradicate poppy growth in Afghanistan.

You live in a vacuum. You have no idea because you refuse to research it further than "my friend said so."

 

[Warner]

YA WHATS A FEW HUNDRED OR SO DEAD AND MAIMED WOMAN AND CHILDREN TO THE CAPTURE OF A SUSPECTED CRIMINAL

You just don't get it. The civilian death toll in Afghanistan is well over 100,000 and climbing every day. I'm talking about deaths due to the war, not just due to direct violence. You have to include everything. Lots of Afghan's are starving and dying of exposure.

Secondly, I am of the position that a peoples are responsible for the actions of their government. In this case the Afghan people allowed the Taliban to rule and thus share some measure of the blame for 9/11. So they are not really "innocent".

We should have gotten it over with in the beginning. A week of ugliness and then a few months of mop up and it would have been over. We could then have spent the next three years or so rebuilding Afghanistan into a viable ally in the struggle against extremism and made an example to the rest of the middle east that would have meant something.

The point is that in the long run the overall loss of innocent life would have been much smaller and the quality of life in Afghanistan would be much much better today had we cut out the cancer at the start and then let the healing begin. Instead we tried to do a partial biopsy, it didn't work, and now the cancer has spread in such a way that it will be almost impossible to cure.

 

[nibor]

Dude, you are blind. Go check it out for yourself,there are plenty of credible sources - even our own government maintains that the Taliban eradicated poppy production. The poppy fields were not brought back until the Taliban was routed out. That is a fact, again, maintained by our own government.

You believe your friend over the official records, which goes beyond Bush & the White House. The UN even acknowledges that the Taliban, as horrible a regime as it was, did eradicate poppy growth in Afghanistan.

You live in a vacuum. You have no idea because you refuse to research it further than "my friend said so."

Um Tao I showed you mine..................please have the courtesy of showing me YOURS....................

Afghanistan has been "A DRUG LORD" historically as far back as I can remember...................


http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2001/07/04/opium010704.html ..........this article is a lie!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[rayboyusmc]

Secondly, I am of the position that a peoples are responsible for the actions of their government. In this case the Afghan people allowed the Taliban to rule and thus share some measure of the blame for 9/11. So they are not really "innocent".

What bullshit. Nice way to justify killing civilians. They are all guilty. Fukking copout.

Did the people who were killed in 9-11 deserve it? After all they supported a government that the Taliban hated, so according to your logic they weren't innocent.

 

[jillian]

In this case the Afghan people allowed the Taliban to rule and thus share some measure of the blame for 9/11. So they are not really "innocent".

So if the civilians of this country allowed Baby Bush to become president and someone doesn't like the bad things that Baby Bush did, civilian casualties in this country would be ok?

It always amazes me that the most extreme people have absolutely no ability to put themselves in the other guy's shoes.

 

[nibor]

In this case the Afghan people allowed the Taliban to rule and thus share some measure of the blame for 9/11. So they are not really "innocent".

So if the civilians of this country allowed Baby Bush to become president and someone doesn't like the bad things that Baby Bush did, civilian casualties in this country would be ok?

It always amazes me that the most extreme people have absolutely no ability to put themselves in the other guy's shoes.

In essence he IS correct, since no one really has the hair on their ass to show dissent anymore, and we allowed fraud into our processes and it went through accepted, we are basically guilty by capitulation..............and association, and in this cluster fucked world creates an excuse for colateral damage!!!!

 

[jillian]

In this case the Afghan people allowed the Taliban to rule and thus share some measure of the blame for 9/11. So they are not really "innocent".

In essence he IS correct, since no one really has the hair on their ass to show dissent anymore, and we allowed fraud into our processes and it went through accepted, we are basically guilty by capitulation..............and association, and in this cluster fucked world creates an excuse for colateral damage!!!!

So, basically, no one has any empathy for anyone else.

Loverly....

 

[DeadCanDance]

You just don't get it. The civilian death toll in Afghanistan is well over 100,000 and climbing every day. I'm talking about deaths due to the war, not just due to direct violence. You have to include everything. Lots of Afghan's are starving and dying of exposure.

Secondly, I am of the position that a peoples are responsible for the actions of their government. In this case the Afghan people allowed the Taliban to rule and thus share some measure of the blame for 9/11. So they are not really "innocent".

We should have gotten it over with in the beginning. A week of ugliness and then a few months of mop up and it would have been over. We could then have spent the next three years or so rebuilding Afghanistan into a viable ally in the struggle against extremism and made an example to the rest of the middle east that would have meant something.

The point is that in the long run the overall loss of innocent life would have been much smaller and the quality of life in Afghanistan would be much much better today had we cut out the cancer at the start and then let the healing begin. Instead we tried to do a partial biopsy, it didn't work, and now the cancer has spread in such a way that it will be almost impossible to cure.

I am of the position that a peoples are responsible for the actions of their government. In this case the Afghan people allowed the Taliban to rule and thus share some measure of the blame for 9/11. So they are not really "innocent".



Jillian made the point, but I will add that the excuse you're giving is the same one Al Qaeda gives. That is, since US government policies which include, but are not limited to, economic sanctions, aerial attacks, and propping up corrupt authoritarian dictators has resulted in the deaths of tens of thousands of muslims, then we who elected those american governments are equally guilty and subject to attack.

 

[Taomon]

I am of the position that a peoples are responsible for the actions of their government. In this case the Afghan people allowed the Taliban to rule and thus share some measure of the blame for 9/11. So they are not really "innocent".QUOTE]
So we are just as much to blame for 9/11 and Saddam Hussein as we armed, trained and funded Saddam and al Qaeda.