Bush Says Disgusted by Abuse of Iraqis, Vows to Act

[Annie]

I'm very tired of the 'the election was stolen' business. We happen to live under a constitutional government. The electoral college is part of that, albeit indirectly. To put in it terms that most can understand, let's look at the last world series:

Game 1 Fla 3 NY 2 Fla
Game 2 Fla 1 NY 6 NY
Game 3 Fla 1 NY 6 NY
Game 4 Fla 4 NY 3 Fla
Game 5 Fla 6 NY 4 Fla
Game 6 Fla 2 Ny 0 Fla

Florida wins best out of 7. Yet, NY scored more runs. 21 for NY v. 17 for Fla. Too bad for NY, the runs were in the wrong games. Same way that elections work. It's Federalist, not Nationist. Get it?

 

[spillmind]

And now you want to obfuscate issues more by bringing DK into the discussion for no good reason other than to direct attention away from yourself. I've seen DK rip Bush when he felt he did something wrong. I've seen him rip Kerry. I've seen him rip Dean. I've seen him praise all the above when it was deserved. He's a self proclaimed liberal who looks at each individual issue impartially and makes sound judgements. He's been a damn good poster in the political section of this board from day one. He contributes to every other aspect of the board as well and is now one of the most respected members on the board. That's the reason he was made a moderator. Instead of trying to drag him into the conversation you should be sitting back and taking notes on how he handles himself.

oh yeah? i compared insein to DK because of this:

And the assinine statement about who was president when 9/11 happened just shows how much of a fucking retard you are.

i found akin to:

So now, instead of being smart and trying to trackdown where something might have been misread, misunderstood, or misposted you moved your sorry ass into the 'FUCKTARD' class for trying to be a smartass.
Do you know what FUCKTARD stands for Spilly? It means you're worse than a Fucking Retard because you don't bother to tell the difference between whos fightin FOR you and whos fighting AGAINST you.
I gave you FAIR warning that despite the crazy ass shit you post on this board I was still trying to back you up on some of it, tried to give you some still friendly 'token liberal' advice on how to further your credibility on this board, and proceeded to tell you how its NOT one side or the other but continuing to act like that is seriously detrimental to the topics at hand and you STILL had to be the FUCKTARD and tell me to 'bring it on'. Well its 'brought on now', dumbshit, because you're too fucking ignorant to know the differences between someone trying to help you and someone who doesn't give a fuck about what you say.

yeah, nothing but RESPECT for this playground banter PLEASE!

you tried to turn it around and bring Bush into the discussion.

BUSH WAS THE TOPIC, when it was said that 'at least we know have a president who does something' remember?

To try and lay the majority of blame on Bush because he was the residing president is lame.

look jim, if it were clinton's watch, it would be HIM i would want out of office. yet no one has lost their job over this. am i the only one that's bothered by this?

My comments were just a rebuttal to your claims about what Clinton did to fight terrorism.

and mine were to the comment about the misconception of clinton doing nothing. that's all there is to it.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by spillmind
oh yeah? i compared insein to DK because of this:

i found akin to:

yeah, nothing but RESPECT for this playground banter PLEASE!

My point being, you brought it up to me when it had nothing to do with what you and I were discussing. Why don't you save your criticisms for Insein and DK for them? I'm confident they can handle themselves and don't need you and I discussing it.

BUSH WAS THE TOPIC, when it was said that 'at least we know have a president who does something' remember? look jim, if it were clinton's watch, it would be HIM i would want out of office. yet no one has lost their job over this. am i the only one that's bothered by this? and mine were to the comment about the misconception of clinton doing nothing. that's all there is to it.

If you have a problem discussing various topics with multiple people, let me know now and I will bail out of this thread. My post was strictly about Clinton and the refusal to have OBL handed over to the USA (which you've still yet to respond to). YOU stated how much he did, then offered to supply links. I asked if you were going to supply the link discussing his fuckup with Sudan. You've since brought up Bush, Insein, DK, the 2000 election & never once responded to what I actually posted.

So let's start anew. What do you think of Clinton turning down Sudan's offer? What do you think of his lying to the commission about ever making those statements? What do you think of his lying to the press about ever making those statements? What do you think about the fact that he apparently forgot his comments were recorded and now a matter or record? Also, the commission claims they were unaware when they met with Clinton that he had made these statements to a group in LI and took him at his word when he claimed it was taken out of context. It was later found out that the 9/11 commission had requested the tape of his speech in LI one month prior to meeting with Clinton. What do you think about the commission claiming to be unaware while they knew enough to request the tape a month earlier?

 

[Annie]

Jimmy I want to thank you for earlier coming to my defense, though God knows I'm nasty enough to deal with attackers, I do thank you.

You are getting to the point I was making with Spillmind. He had linked to his own earlier post on how Clinton was tough on terrorism. I posted a bunch of links that demonstated his inability or weak responses to action. Neither of us have gotten an answer, though I guess he admitted that I can stretch a buck. Still doesn't answer the question.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Spill, do you think that once you make a statement in a post it can be disavowed for future reference? You claim I insulted you without due cause but have you even bothered to read the thread that started my animosity with you?

My guess is that you didn't so you wouldn't have to deal with your imbecile posts.

If you ever decide to grow up and be a man with liberal tendencies in the real world, let me know. I'll be happy to instruct you. Until then, keep your ideological views safely ensconced within your own web of reality, for if you include anyone else in it, guarantee yourself a public shredding by both sides of the political arena.

 

[JIHADTHIS]

Spilly you're a pompous fraud, and you know it.

You and your ilk use the same tactics all the time: change the subject, twist the truth, and spin it as you see fit. Yet you never can answer the questions put forth to you.

Do you work for the DNC by any chance?


True American my ass......

 

[spillmind]

True American my ass......

you can kiss mine.
show up with a little content and some orignal artwork on your avatar, and we might have a little debate. and what exactly is my 'ilk'. oh omniscient one?

What do you think of Clinton turning down Sudan's offer?

it was a mistake. never once did i say this was ok.

What do you think of his lying to the commission about ever making those statements?

i've have to see you link this, i don't really feel like digging for it, since i have no idea where it is.

What do you think about the fact that he apparently forgot his comments were recorded and now a matter or record?

i'll ahve to see proof of this, but remember i NEVER VOTED FOR THE GUY, so i don't understand why i'm defending him? i could have SWORN this topic started off talking about bush...?

Also, the commission claims they were unaware when they met with Clinton that he had made these statements to a group in LI and took him at his word when he claimed it was taken out of context. It was later found out that the 9/11 commission had requested the tape of his speech in LI one month prior to meeting with Clinton. What do you think about the commission claiming to be unaware while they knew enough to request the tape a month earlier?

i certainly don't condone it, but i don't even see what the relevance is?

it *still* doesn't change that the failure happened on Bush's watch, now does it?

kathianne:

You are getting to the point I was making with Spillmind. He had linked to his own earlier post on how Clinton was tough on terrorism. I posted a bunch of links that demonstated his inability or weak responses to action. Neither of us have gotten an answer, though I guess he admitted that I can stretch a buck. Still doesn't answer the question.

that's fine, and i even AGREED with you, but when you APPLAUDED to that childish rant, and then went on to say, (feel sorry for me, this is my life) as if that somehow justified that crap, i called a spade a spade. i treat everyone equal, even i don't receive mutual respect.

 

[jewettjim]

Could it be that Spilly with all his verbosity...is a twisted conservative?? One thing is for sure...he loves the attention!

 

[5stringJeff]

OK, three pages after the thread devloved into flaming...

What these soldiers did was wrong, period. From what I've read, they are going to be court-martialed. As a former soldier, I hope that the people who did this spend some time in Leavenworth. The officers and non-commissioned officers who were supposed to be leading these soldiers are getting career-ending reprimands - which is great news as well.

There is no language strong enough to show my absolute disdain for what these soldiers did. At the same time, I spent enough time in the Army to know that the vast majority of soldiers would never consider these acts, let alone do them.

 

[spillmind]

One thing is for sure...he loves the attention!

actually, it's more out of disbelief that so many people that can figure out AOL and the internet, let alone a chat room STILL SUPPORT BUSH.

even more amazing is his followers (or whatever) standing by his word like he was the second coming of christ or something.

most cannot think of anything bush has done wrong (save for maybe jim, and maybe a smattering here and there), let alone, the brainiac himself. i say accountability needs to be upheld, and we need to TAKE BACK OUR COUNTRY from the corrupt politicians running it. (BOTH PARTIES!)

this topic is for another thread, but it's funny- for all the people screaming bloody murder at me, and ganging up on me, attacking me for not answering questions, the ONLY response i got about the hypocrisy of the topic, is one saying that there is no relation, and no hypocrisy- from the board moderator. to me, both have humanitarian considerations, but i guess i am the only one capable of seeing that. *shrugs*

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by jimnyc
Jesus, Spilly, all she did was agree with someone, and you're going to slam her for that and bring her children into the picture? C'mon man, I know you're better than that. We both have a history of throwing the sarcasm and insults around, and I'm man enough to admit I started plenty of it - but some things just cross the line. Whether you agree with her or not, she's a lady and deserves a bit of respect.

He's not better than that. He's a typical Bay Area liberal lowlife.

 

[spillmind]

There is no language strong enough to show my absolute disdain for what these soldiers did. At the same time, I spent enough time in the Army to know that the vast majority of soldiers would never consider these acts, let alone do them.

i agree, but i still wonder if these are the only times this ever happened... and i can't help but wonder who would want to go public with this stuff? if that person were american, are they a traitor?

 

[5stringJeff]

So Spilly, why don't you just come out and say that all conservatives are stupid, since that's what you seem to imply?

And, if you were on here more often, you would see many criticisms of Bush's policies by conservatives and Republicans - including several from me. You are trying to paint Republicans as brainwashed robots, but it's just not true.

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by spillmind
i agree, but i still wonder if these are the only times this ever happened... and i can't help but wonder who would want to go public with this stuff? if that person were american, are they a traitor?

Are they traitors? I don't think so - they haven't supported the overthrow of the Constitution by torturing EPWs. However, they are certainly breaking military policy and international laws of war. For that, they deserve the punishment they have coming to them.

 

[spillmind]

He's not better than that. He's a typical Bay Area liberal lowlife.

i can guess what's gonna happen at YOUR final judgement day

i worry about myself first and foremost. it would be an obvious statement of my own insecurity if i were to attack you and call you names when i can't even pretend to know you. (let alone post on a topic with no content, just an insult)

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by spillmind
i can guess what's gonna happen at YOUR final judgement day

i worry about myself first and foremost.

Hmmm.....Pot calling the kettle black?

 

[spillmind]

So Spilly, why don't you just come out and say that all conservatives are stupid, since that's what you seem to imply?

don't be ridiculous! why would i even trade posts with people i thought were 'stupid'? (doubt you'll be answering that one) i didn't realize you were joining the esteemed list of those who assume too much....?

And, if you were on here more often, you would see many criticisms of Bush's policies by conservatives and Republicans - including several from me. You are trying to paint Republicans as brainwashed robots, but it's just not true.

sorry, i try to pretend i have a life, and i don't sit on this board all day. i'm speaking from my own experience... many times when i point out things i find as glaring contradictions, or failed policy, etc.... all i get is ganged up on, and RARELY does anybody concede to any facet of the point... i think this is mostly on principle, but i could be wrong?

Are they traitors?

sorry, i misspoke. i meant the people that went public with these photos, and this story.... isn't this something the US wants to keep under wraps? they do a pretty good job of not publicizing things that hurt our 'cause' in iraq.

 

[spillmind]

Hmmm.....Pot calling the kettle black?

if i'm going to burn, i deserve it. i consider myself a pretty good person- far from perfect, helpful to my fellow man anytime i can. if i'm not in the jesus club, and i go to 'hell' for that, i don't think that's right in my heart, but that's life.

 

[OCA]

From the Bay Area originally, know the twisted and psychotic political views of much of the populace there. Lets put it this way, any town that can elect a Willie Brown should be razed and rebuilt. This is not just speaking for the city too, this goes for the penninsula, South Bay, East Bay etc. etc. Gay marriage? San Francisco's giving the homeless a stipend? Nancy Pelosi? Dianne Feinstein? this list could go on and on and on.............The Bay Area is like the political wasteland of America, its where long discarded political ideas go for their final days. It does not surprise me that you are a rabid Bush hater being from there.

BTW a couple months back I asked you what exactly is your political persuasion(i'm guessing Bay Area blackshirt anarchist) but never got an answer. Care to give one today?

 

[st8_o_mind]

Originally posted by jewettjim
...those responsible are identified, court martialed and punished.

US forces are are using the same methonds, even the same prison made famous during the Saddam era for torture. US has appointed former Republican Guard senior military officers to head the new Iraqi army and civilian defense force (read internal security).

Perhaps you're right Jim, but from the Iraqi perspective it looks more and more like they have traded a repressive dictatorship for a repressive occupation army.

Two perspectives from the fallout were reported in today's Washington Post (sorry, no link, I have the hard copy).

"The chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff acknowledged Sunday that allegations that Iraqi prisoners were abused at a detention facility run by the Army have set back efforts to cultivate a positive image for the U.S. military in the region."

I'd say the general has a knack for understatement.

"The release of these pictures may be the point at which the United States lost Iraq" -- Juan Cole, professor of modern Middle Eastern history at the University of Michigan.

The latter may be an overstatement. The impact of the revelations that the good guys have been torturing prisoners is probably somewhere in the middle. This issue goes beyond prosecution of a "few bad apples."

I don't think Iraq is hopeless. While I oppesed the invasion before it happened, not that we are there, I don't think the US can afford to "cut and run." As Colin Powell said -- We own it.

Now that we are there, these constant blunders by the occupation authority and the Bush Administration will end up making the transition in Iraq a more lengthy process, a more expensive process for the US taxpayers, and unfortunately, will increase the numbers of Americans killed in the process.