Bush Pardon for I. Lewis "Scooter" Lbby.

[PubliusInfinitum]

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well that is tall intellectual grass for a leftist...

 

[del]

have you ever served on a jury?
i have and what impressed me most was how seriously everyone took that responsibility.

libby being a fall guy and libby being guilty as charged are not mutually exclusive.

Yes I have been a witness before a jury, not on one.

I know what you are saying, but you are limiting the options. Libby was a fall guy by choice.

certainly libby chose to act as he did, but i doubt he wanted to be the fall guy.

when i say he's an honest man, i mean i don't think he acted for personal gain.

i don't mean he didn't break the law.

life has nuances, no?

 

[del]

pubic

 

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...

from wikipeda:::

On September 26, 2003, at the request of the CIA, the Department of Justice and the FBI began a criminal investigation into the possible unauthorized disclosure of classified information regarding Valerie Wilson’s CIA affiliation to various reporters in the spring of 2003.

Then-Attorney General John Ashcroft initially headed up the investigation.

On 13 August 2005 journalist Murray Waas reported that Justice Department and FBI officials had recommended appointing a special prosecutor to the case because they felt that Rove had not been truthful in early interviews, withholding from FBI investigators his conversation with Cooper about Plame and maintaining that he had first learned of Plame's CIA identity from a journalist whose name Rove could not recall.


Fitzgerald began investigations into the leak working from White House telephone records turned over to the FBI in October 2003.[4]

Fitzgerald learned of Armitage's role in the leak "shortly after his appointment in 2003". [21]

On October 31, 2003, a grand jury was sworn in and began taking testimony. A complete list of witnesses to testify there is not known, in part because Fitzgerald has conducted his investigation with much more discretion than previous presidential investigations.[5]

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Armitage's role was only part of the picture and if anyone refuses to see that it is disingenuous. The investigation does not stop because omne of many suspects and persons involved are known. Evidence is gathered to support the idea (or not) that Armitage unknowingly disclosed the confidential info as the primary source of a leak. There were other leakers.


quote:::: "Libby should have taken the investigation more seriously... but that's hardly grounds for prosecution.":::::::

no shit, but he didn't and he broke a few laws. He also obstructed Fitz from going further. Fitz has said publicly that he was stonewalled by Fitz. Libby was prosecuted for the crimes he committed during a federal investigation into leaking confidential CIA sources. It is of no matter who leaked what...that Libby was charged and convicted.


Did you even read the judge's instructions to the jury that I posted?

During Libby's trial, Judge Reggie Walton told the jury: "No evidence will be presented to you with regard to Valerie Plame Wilson’s status. That is because what her actual status was, or whether any damage would result from disclosure of her status, are totally irrelevant to your decision of guilt or innocence. You must not consider these matters in your deliberations or speculate or guess about them." During court proceedings, when the jury was not present, Walton told the court: "I don’t know, based on what has been presented to me in this case, what her status was...It’s totally irrelevant to this case...I to this day don’t know what her actual status was."[186]

 

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so if Libby was not called to a grand jury a crime would not have been committed? what a defense.

 

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have you ever served on a jury?
i have and what impressed me most was how seriously everyone took that responsibility.

libby being a fall guy and libby being guilty as charged are not mutually exclusive.

Yes I have been a witness before a jury, not on one.

I know what you are saying, but you are limiting the options. Libby was a fall guy by choice.

certainly libby chose to act as he did, but i doubt he wanted to be the fall guy.

when i say he's an honest man, i mean i don't think he acted for personal gain.

i don't mean he didn't break the law.

life has nuances, no?

I know. I do believe he thought he was doing what was right by breaking the law. Burt so lots of people. Personal gain can mean many things...ego, self whatever,. It is no defense. Libby got a stiff sentence. Career law people like Fitz think it was deserved. Fitz said Libby's obstruction kept the investigation from going higher. You can read between the few lines there no?

It would've been a bad day for the country, but we are supposed to be a nation of laws and Libby and company shit all over them.

 

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i disagree

that's cool; it wouldn't be the first time i was wrong.

today

it all looks like it was set up to be a perjury trap

how so? ala Clinton?

nope. Libby was NOT being targeted as Clinton was.

An investigation was leading to Cheney's office. That much has been hinted at and spoken of by Fitz. Nobody was looking to entrap Libby. All Libby had to do is what Armitage, Rove and Novak and the media people and others did: tell the truth.

using your logic all swearing in of people under oath are attempts at trapping people in lies. do you see what I mean?

 

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read this part on Wiki: Possible consequences of the public disclosure of Wilson's CIA identity

Wilson was not a Covert CIA operative... PERIOD. The White House did not out a Covert CIA Operative...

Mrs. Wilson's relationship with the CIA was classified information.[1]

Plame affair - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[DiveCon]

that's cool; it wouldn't be the first time i was wrong.

today

it all looks like it was set up to be a perjury trap

how so? ala Clinton?

nope. Libby was NOT being targeted as Clinton was.

An investigation was leading to Cheney's office. That much has been hinted at and spoken of by Fitz. Nobody was looking to entrap Libby. All Libby had to do is what Armitage, Rove and Novak and the media people and others did: tell the truth.

using your logic all swearing in of people under oath are attempts at trapping people in lies. do you see what I mean?

no
Clinton perjured himself all on his own
he appeared ONCE
libby was called in several times over 3 years

 

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Libby was granted clemency... not a pardon; Libby screwed up... it didn't amount to shit and didn't warrant an indictment, trial and conviction; but he did try to manage his testimony and that cost him his record and it embarassed the President for no reason.

Gw granted the clemency because he knew that Libby didn't commit a crime, just a lapse in judgment... but he did embarass the administration and that's why he didn't receive the pardon.

It should also be noted that there's nothing on the record beyond conjecture that VP Cheney lobbied for a Libby pardon...

please, offer some facts or STFU. just a few facts? your opinion as fact will not do,


it's been fun, but the wingnutocracy has arrived.

outta here guys

thanks for the conversation minus the shouting and ideological idiocies.

 

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it all looks like it was set up to be a perjury trap

how so? ala Clinton?

nope. Libby was NOT being targeted as Clinton was.

An investigation was leading to Cheney's office. That much has been hinted at and spoken of by Fitz. Nobody was looking to entrap Libby. All Libby had to do is what Armitage, Rove and Novak and the media people and others did: tell the truth.

using your logic all swearing in of people under oath are attempts at trapping people in lies. do you see what I mean?

no
Clinton perjured himself all on his own
he appeared ONCE
libby was called in several times over 3 years

Dive, I thought we were talking about a perjury trap. For a trap to be set one has to be targeted.

ltr.

the moonbat is here.
thanks

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Plame affair - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oh MY! Well there ya have it... WIKIPEDIA (The least credible resource on earth...) says it so it must be true...

It's a rare covert CIA agent that sets their politically bent spouse up on politically charged diplomatic missions and then allows them to take EXCEEDINGLY HIGH PROFILE and HIGHLY CONTENTIOUS positions AGAINST THE CHEIF EXECUTIVE OF THE UNITED STATES...

What's more Valarie Plame lived in the US and the CIA cannot execute covert operations in the US... So despite the certainty inherent in WIKI sources, Plame's career as a covert operative ended abrublty, when she was identified in Russian intercepts as being employed by the CIA, after running her suck, telling anyone that would listen, from her gardener to tthe grocer... that she worked for the CIA; this while working undercover in Iraq... LONG before her HUSBAND STARTED WRITING OP-EDS in the nations largest newspapers, regarding his opinion of jobs HIS WOULD 'CIA-SPY WIFE' HAD RECOMMENDED HIM FOR... so she may have been a lot of things, but a covert operative was not one of them.

ROFLMNAO... Leftists...

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Libby was granted clemency... not a pardon; Libby screwed up... it didn't amount to shit and didn't warrant an indictment, trial and conviction; but he did try to manage his testimony and that cost him his record and it embarassed the President for no reason.

Gw granted the clemency because he knew that Libby didn't commit a crime, just a lapse in judgment... but {Libby} did embarass the administration and that's why he didn't receive the pardon.

It should also be noted that there's nothing on the record beyond conjecture that VP Cheney lobbied for a Libby pardon...

Incontestable Facts highlighted in red...

please, offer some facts or STFU. just a few facts? your opinion as fact will not do,


it's been fun, but the wingnutocracy has arrived.

outta here guys

thanks for the conversation minus the shouting and ideological idiocies.

ROFL... the classic default CONCESSION...

And that friends is all there is to eviscerating left-think conspiracies... simply bend them over incontrovertible reason and they fold up like cocktail napkin, soiled, soaked and completely useless.

 

[DiveCon]

Plame affair - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oh MY! Well there ya have it... WIKIPEDIA (The least credible resource on earth...) says it so it must be true...

It's a rare covert CIA agent that sets their politically bent spouse up on politically charged diplomatic missions and then allows them to take EXCEEDINGLY HIGH PROFILE and HIGHLY CONTENTIOUS positions AGAINST THE CHEIF EXECUTIVE OF THE UNITED STATES...

What's more Valarie Plame lived in the US and the CIA cannot execute covert operations in the US... So despite the certainty inherent in WIKI sources, Plame's career as a covert operative ended abrublty, when she was identified in Russian intercepts as being employed by the CIA, after running her suck, telling anyone that would listen, from her gardener to tthe grocer... that she worked for the CIA; this while working undercover in Iraq... LONG before her HUSBAND STARTED WRITING OP-EDS in the nations largest newspapers, regarding his opinion of jobs HIS WOULD 'CIA-SPY WIFE' HAD RECOMMENDED HIM FOR... so she may have been a lot of things, but a covert operative was not one of them.

ROFLMNAO... Leftists...

even rarer, is a covert CIA operative being listed in Who's who.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/10/AR2005081001918_pf.html

Harlow has said that he told Novak that if he wrote about the trip, he should not mention Wilson's wife's name. Novak, who published her maiden name -- Valerie Plame -- has written that Harlow's request was "meaningless" because "once it was determined that Wilson's wife suggested the mission, she could be identified as 'Valerie Plame' by reading her husband's entry in 'Who's Who in America.' "

 

[editec]

Bush didn't need him anymore.

 

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Plame affair - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oh MY! Well there ya have it... WIKIPEDIA (The least credible resource on earth...) says it so it must be true...

okay big mouth.
the source Wikipedia: point out what is in error on the page listed. You have a big mouth but you prove noting. You are the epitome of a blowhard. Lots of condescension. If Wikipedia says it it must not be true? Yeah right. moonbat.

Wikipedia is used as a reference for things and if it is in error they actually correct things.

Point out what exactly is in error or STFU.

 

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It's a rare covert CIA agent that sets their politically bent spouse up on politically charged diplomatic missions and then allows them to take EXCEEDINGLY HIGH PROFILE and HIGHLY CONTENTIOUS positions AGAINST THE CHEIF EXECUTIVE OF THE UNITED STATES...

Is that what you imagine happened? Is this some sort of debate you are having with yourself?

What covert CIA agent are you talking about? "then allows the to, blah blah blah..."??? What?

What's more Valarie Plame lived in the US and the CIA cannot execute covert operations in the US... So despite the certainty inherent in WIKI sources, Plame's career as a covert operative ended abrublty,

Plame's status was confidential.

...when she was identified in Russian intercepts as being employed by the CIA, after running her suck, telling anyone that would listen, from her gardener to tthe grocer... that she worked for the CIA; this while working undercover in Iraq... LONG before her HUSBAND STARTED WRITING OP-EDS in the nations largest newspapers, regarding his opinion of jobs HIS WOULD 'CIA-SPY WIFE' HAD RECOMMENDED HIM FOR... so she may have been a lot of things, but a covert operative was not one of them.

ROFLMNAO... Leftists...

leftists? huh what? moonbat!!!

CIA employment

 

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Plame was ‘covert’ agent at time of name leak
Newly released unclassified document details CIA employment

By Joel Seidman
Producer
NBC News
updated 1:24 p.m. PT, Tues., May. 29, 2007

WASHINGTON - An unclassified summary of outed CIA officer Valerie Plame's employment history at the spy agency, disclosed for the first time today in a court filing by Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald, indicates that Plame was "covert" when her name became public in July 2003.

The summary is part of an attachment to Fitzgerald's memorandum to the court supporting his recommendation that I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Vice President Cheney's former top aide, spend 2-1/2 to 3 years in prison for obstructing the CIA leak investigation.

The nature of Plame's CIA employment never came up in Libby's perjury and obstruction of justice trial.

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Undercover travel
The unclassified summary of Plame's employment with the CIA at the time that syndicated columnist Robert Novak published her name on July 14, 2003 says, "Ms. Wilson was a covert CIA employee for who the CIA was taking affirmative measures to conceal her intelligence relationship to the United States."

Plame worked as an operations officer in the Directorate of Operations and was assigned to the Counterproliferation Division (CPD) in January 2002 at CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia.

The employment history indicates that while she was assigned to CPD, Plame, "engaged in temporary duty travel overseas on official business." The report says, "she traveled at least seven times to more than ten times." When overseas Plame traveled undercover, "sometimes in true name and sometimes in alias -- but always using cover -- whether official or non-official (NOC) -- with no ostensible relationship to the CIA."

Criminal prosecution beat national security
After the Novak column was published and Plame's identity was widely reported in the media, and according to the document, "the CIA lifted Ms Wilson's cover" and then "rolled back her cover" effective to the date of the leak.

The CIA determined, "that the public interest in allowing the criminal prosecution to proceed outweighed the damage to national security that might reasonably be expected from the official disclosure of Ms. Wilson's employment and cover status."

The CIA has not divulged any other details of the nature of Plame's cover or the methods employed by the CIA to protect her cover nor the details of her classified intelligence activities. Plame resigned from the CIA in December 2005.

Plame and her husband, former Ambassador Joseph Wilson have filed a lawsuit against four current or former top Bush administration officials, including Vice President Dick Cheney, accusing them and other White House officials of conspiring to destroy her career at the CIA.

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'I felt like I had been hit in the gut'
In March at a House of Representatives hearing, Plame testified saying, "My name and identity were carelessly and recklessly abused by senior government officials in both the White house and the State Department"

She described how it felt to see her true identity exposed in the morning paper, her career destroyed she said.

"I felt like I had been hit in the gut, it was over in an instant, I immediately thought of my family's safety."

Plame's identity was leaked to reporters in 2003, after her husband began criticizing the Bush administration. She claims her constitutional rights were violated by the administration and is demanding compensation.

No leak charges
Several administration officials, including Libby, former State Department official Richard Armitage and Bush advisor Karl Rove, disclosed Plame's identity to reporters.

No one was ever charged with the leak of Plame's name itself, which would have been a crime only if someone knowingly gave our information about someone covered by a specific law protecting the identities of covert agents.

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ahem!!! ::::::::::which would have been a crime only if someone knowingly gave our information::::::::::::

so here we have IT. Why did Fitz keep investigating since he knew Armitage was the primary source for Novak? Because he was investigating whether a crime had been committed. Fitzgerald was NOT investigating who was Novak's primary source alone. He did not know yet if any or all the participants had knowingly gave out information...so he was investigating when Libby alone...no one else...got caught lying to Federal agents ...then it went all downhill...caught in a web of lies and deceit and deception.

 

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even rarer, is a covert CIA operative being listed in Who's who.

Side Issue in the Plame Case: Who Sent Her Spouse to Africa?

first: you take the word of a poster with moonbatty views, lingo and logic over court filings of unclassified CIA documents...evidence submitted to the courts by Fitzgerald? do you know how that other poster is making you look? think about it. I have been nothing but respectful and open in this thread. what has pubichair-in-mouth-ious done?


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one: here is where your link leads:

 

[editec]

George Bush II used a servant and then threw him to the wolves.

That's what people of his class do, after all.