Bush Pardon for I. Lewis "Scooter" Lbby.

Fitz knew Armitage was a source, the primary one, but Fitz didn't believe Armitage knew that Plame's relationship with the CIA was classified information.

Libby obstructed a federal investigation that was ongoing.

What was he convicted of? Bush agreed with the convictions, not the sentence.
i call bullshit
Fitz knew who the leaker was and the investigation should have ended there

i disagree. knowing and proving beyond a reasonable doubt in court aren't the same thing.

i think fitzgerald is an honest man doing his job to the best of his ability.
since he didnt press a charge against the leaker, i would say he didnt want to
and if i call you in 5 times before a grand jury(you wont have legal represntation there either) and ask you similar questions over a period of several years, can you honestly say you would answer the questions the exact same way all 5 times?

i highly doubt it
 
scooter was used and abused by his boss(es).

i think what happened to him was unfair from the POV that he was set up. i'd bet he had assurances (unprovable i admit, but c'mon, how hard is it to believe that someone said they'd cover his ass and then bailed on him.) that he'd eventually walk on this. they probably convinced him that it was his duty, and he may even be the kind of man that takes his duty seriously.

i guess that makes him an honest man, too. he's gotten fucked, imo, but it wasn't fitz that fucked him.
 
scooter was used and abused by his boss(es).

i think what happened to him was unfair from the POV that he was set up. i'd bet he had assurances (unprovable i admit, but c'mon, how hard is it to believe that someone said they'd cover his ass and then bailed on him.) that he'd eventually walk on this. they probably convinced him that it was his duty, and he may even be the kind of man that takes his duty seriously.

i guess that makes him an honest man, too. he's gotten fucked, imo, but it wasn't fitz that fucked him.
i disagree
 
Scooter may already be writing a book??

Bush may have in spite stopped doing what Cheney ordered him to do?

If Bush were being ordered around by Cheney you'd still have no clue.

Scooter's pardon is what Cheney lobbied for and didn't get. What was Scooter convicted of?

So the right wingnuts and the left wingnuts were both wrong about Bush and Cheney and Scooter.


gawd, and people wonder why I love politics and wingnuts!
:lol:


What specifically were they wrong about?

Libby was granted clemency... not a pardon; Libby screwed up... it didn't amount to shit and didn't warrant an indictment, trial and conviction; but he did try to manage his testimony and that cost him his record and it embarassed the President for no reason.

Gw granted the clemency because he knew that Libby didn't commit a crime, just a lapse in judgment... but he did embarass the administration and that's why he didn't receive the pardon.

It should also be noted that there's nothing on the record beyond conjecture that VP Cheney lobbied for a Libby pardon...
 
scooter was used and abused by his boss(es).

i think what happened to him was unfair from the POV that he was set up. i'd bet he had assurances (unprovable i admit, but c'mon, how hard is it to believe that someone said they'd cover his ass and then bailed on him.) that he'd eventually walk on this. they probably convinced him that it was his duty, and he may even be the kind of man that takes his duty seriously.

i guess that makes him an honest man, too. he's gotten fucked, imo, but it wasn't fitz that fucked him.
i disagree

that's cool; it wouldn't be the first time i was wrong.

today:lol:
 
scooter was used and abused by his boss(es).

i think what happened to him was unfair from the POV that he was set up. i'd bet he had assurances (unprovable i admit, but c'mon, how hard is it to believe that someone said they'd cover his ass and then bailed on him.) that he'd eventually walk on this. they probably convinced him that it was his duty, and he may even be the kind of man that takes his duty seriously.

i guess that makes him an honest man, too. he's gotten fucked, imo, but it wasn't fitz that fucked him.
i disagree

that's cool; it wouldn't be the first time i was wrong.

today:lol:
it all looks like it was set up to be a perjury trap
 
anmd yet some on the jury voted him guilty because he was the only guy they could vote on
where do you get this? talk to some of the jurors? did you even read the Judge's instructions to the jury I posted?

that tells me more that he was found guilty of "being a republican in DC" more so than what he was charged with

that will remain my opinion, and its not likely gonna change
you are arguing with a straw man here.

Being a Republican in DC? Did you even read what Fitz, a great prosecutor (so said most everyone on all sides pre-Libby) said, that I posted?

I am not trying to change your mind. I am only posting the facts and the truth and wondering why you are resistant to considering you may be...gulp....wrong in your assumptions of what transpired and how it all went down, and wrong in your beliefs. It is possible, no? That you are wrong on some of it?
come on dev, you even quoted it

I don't understand. I quoted you, yes. So what of it?
 
Fitz knew Armitage was a source, the primary one, but Fitz didn't believe Armitage knew that Plame's relationship with the CIA was classified information.

Libby obstructed a federal investigation that was ongoing.

What was he convicted of? Bush agreed with the convictions, not the sentence.

lying to a grand jury....bush commuted his sentence he did not pardon him...

really? heh!

Libby was convicted of one count of obstruction, two counts of perjury and one count of lying to the FBI about how he learned Plame’s identity and whom he told. Prosecutors said he learned about Plame from Cheney and others, discussed her name with reporters and, fearing prosecution, made up a story to make those discussions seem innocuous.

Jury convicts Libby on four charges - Politics- msnbc.com

-------

Despite a “tremendous amount of sympathy” for Lewis “Scooter” Libby, jurors Tuesday found the former aide to Vice President Dick Cheney guilty of perjury and obstruction of justice.
According to one jury member, some believed Libby was being made a “fall guy” for his White House superiors.

But when it got down to the basic question facing them, there was little doubt: Libby, they easily decided, was guilty as charged on four of the five counts against him.

Speaking for the panel Tuesday after its verdict was announced, juror Denis Collins said he and his colleagues regarded this as “the least convincing thing” Libby’s lawyers put forward.
A single word Libby uttered about the case also proved telling.

In his grand-jury testimony, Libby claimed to have heard the identity of an undercover CIA operative from Tim Russert of NBC News, and to have been”surprised” to have that information come up in conversation.

The jurors did not buy it, Collins said, because the prospect that Libby had not known of Valerie Plame’s identity before then was contradicted by so many other witnesses and pieces of evidence.

After verdict, jurors call Libby `fall guy'<br> Ex-Cheney aide guilty of perjury - Chicago Tribune
right there dev
 
since he didnt press a charge against the leaker, i would say he didnt want to
and if i call you in 5 times before a grand jury(you wont have legal represntation there either) and ask you similar questions over a period of several years, can you honestly say you would answer the questions the exact same way all 5 times?

i highly doubt it

D., I understand where you are coming from, I am just at a loss to understand the why. I almost appears you have a conclusion in search of evidence...Libby was not the leaker. And that is a false one anyway. I think Bob N. had three sources. If one source did not know Plame's status they would be clear, but nobody else would. It wasn't so much the primary source as a leaker that was under investigation. That is the johnny come later defense made up after Scooter was know to be caught obstructing.

Fitz wrote about why he called them back. The defenders thought Fitz was going to close the case before they trotted out the Armitage was the leaker idiocy. Armitage was the primary source and there is no evidence he knew Plame's protected status.

::::::::::On October 6, 2005, Fitzgerald recalled Karl Rove, for the fourth time, to take the stand before the grand jury investigating the leak of Plame's identity. Fitzgerald had indicated that the only remaining witnesses to call were Cooper and Miller before he would close his case.[26]:::::


Fitz has addressed all your statements. Do you not believe Fitz and if so why? Why? if you do trust him where does that lead you?

I am sympathetic to Libby as well as hostile.
 
scooter was used and abused by his boss(es).

i think what happened to him was unfair from the POV that he was set up. i'd bet he had assurances (unprovable i admit, but c'mon, how hard is it to believe that someone said they'd cover his ass and then bailed on him.) that he'd eventually walk on this. they probably convinced him that it was his duty, and he may even be the kind of man that takes his duty seriously.

i guess that makes him an honest man, too. he's gotten fucked, imo, but it wasn't fitz that fucked him.

Fitz also decided to lie and obstruct
 
have you ever served on a jury?
i have and what impressed me most was how seriously everyone took that responsibility.

libby being a fall guy and libby being guilty as charged are not mutually exclusive.
 
scooter was used and abused by his boss(es).

i think what happened to him was unfair from the POV that he was set up. i'd bet he had assurances (unprovable i admit, but c'mon, how hard is it to believe that someone said they'd cover his ass and then bailed on him.) that he'd eventually walk on this. they probably convinced him that it was his duty, and he may even be the kind of man that takes his duty seriously.

i guess that makes him an honest man, too. he's gotten fucked, imo, but it wasn't fitz that fucked him.
i disagree

disagree with what?
 
scooter was used and abused by his boss(es).

i think what happened to him was unfair from the POV that he was set up. i'd bet he had assurances (unprovable i admit, but c'mon, how hard is it to believe that someone said they'd cover his ass and then bailed on him.) that he'd eventually walk on this. they probably convinced him that it was his duty, and he may even be the kind of man that takes his duty seriously.

i guess that makes him an honest man, too. he's gotten fucked, imo, but it wasn't fitz that fucked him.

Fitz also decided to lie and obstruct

hello?
 
scooter was used and abused by his boss(es).

i think what happened to him was unfair from the POV that he was set up. i'd bet he had assurances (unprovable i admit, but c'mon, how hard is it to believe that someone said they'd cover his ass and then bailed on him.) that he'd eventually walk on this. they probably convinced him that it was his duty, and he may even be the kind of man that takes his duty seriously.

i guess that makes him an honest man, too. he's gotten fucked, imo, but it wasn't fitz that fucked him.
i disagree

disagree with what?
what i bolded
 
scooter was used and abused by his boss(es).

i think what happened to him was unfair from the POV that he was set up. i'd bet he had assurances (unprovable i admit, but c'mon, how hard is it to believe that someone said they'd cover his ass and then bailed on him.) that he'd eventually walk on this. they probably convinced him that it was his duty, and he may even be the kind of man that takes his duty seriously.

i guess that makes him an honest man, too. he's gotten fucked, imo, but it wasn't fitz that fucked him.
i disagree

disagree with what?

i think the part he bolded is a hint
*wink
 
have you ever served on a jury?
i have and what impressed me most was how seriously everyone took that responsibility.

libby being a fall guy and libby being guilty as charged are not mutually exclusive.

Yes I have been a witness before a jury, not on one.

I know what you are saying, but you are limiting the options. Libby was a fall guy by choice.
 
Fitz did NOT go after Libby as the leaker. Libby obstructed justice and thought he had cover. He didn't. He and his boss were so used to bullying their way over everyone in Washington...before Fitz got a grip on their assess.
that is pure conjecture... you've no evidence which supports those assertions.


But my mind keeps going back there because I bump into lots of people like Dive. Almost like a head in the sand denial. They heard or read a version of what was happening and it is like challenging their world view.

You keep going back there because that issue is laden with etheral myth which you project as fact...


Fitz, was a prosecutor called in by the Bush Justice Dept. There was no witch hunt.

Yep... Fitz was hired by GW... but being hired by the President doesn't make it morally valid to prosecute a guy to teh fullest extent of the law, because he wasn't able to reconcile his memory of 3 year old specifics with his log...

There is such a thing as prosecutorial restraint... and Fitz set aside any such notions in his investigation of the Buch administration.


There was a media frenzy to get Libby, but Fitz was as immune to that as Bush was to the demands of a pardon for Libby.

Fitz was not immune to anything... he wasn't even immune from his own ego, which is the only thing which prevented him from using common sense restraint of his power where Libby was concerned.

Its worth noting that Armitage is the one proven to have 'outed Plame' and since Armitage outing Plames relationship with the CIA is the 'crime' that Fitz was investigating and the guy that is proven to have committed the crime has never been charged with that crime, then the investigation is proven to be something other than what it was represented to be... so it serves reason that the left's cry for cheney blood is the source of the Libby indictment and the DC area jury is the source of the conviction...

Libby should have taken the investigation more seriously... but that's hardly grounds for prosecution.
 

Forum List

Back
Top