Bush official admits innocent at Gitmo

[DiveCon]

If those released "went back to being terrorists" as you say, why were they released in the first place? Why weren't they tried, convicted and sentenced as they should have been if they were terrorists?

Was it because they were tortured and so anything they said was not admissable in court? To bad the Bush Admin became through their illegal actions an enemy of American justice.

why wasnt Bill Ayers convicted?

Irrelevant.

The question is still 'why didn't Bush try and convict these suppossed terrorists?'.

Probably because they became torturers, and as such were unable to pursue crimes without exposing their own criminal behavior.

Everlasting shame on the traitors to the American justice system, the Bush Amin.

it IS relevant
the same reason why Ayers wasnt convicted
the evidence wouldnt hold up in court

 

[wihosa]

You are just bringing up Bill Ayers in a pathetic attempt to link Obama to his Ayers past behavior. But of course Ayers is irrelevant to the discussion of why Bush failed to prosecute the "worst of the worst", the people Bush put in his extra-legal prison in Guantanamo.

Either Bush couldn't prosecute because of his torturing of prisoners or because there was no evidence of terrorist links to begin with.

Either way Bush was in violation of our laws.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Yep. And.......I'd be willing to bet that Bush and Cheney are brought up on criminal charges in about a year or two, with a conviction and jail as the result.

Can't wait.

 

[DiveCon]

You are just bringing up Bill Ayers in a pathetic attempt to link Obama to his Ayers past behavior. But of course Ayers is irrelevant to the discussion of why Bush failed to prosecute the "worst of the worst", the people Bush put in his extra-legal prison in Guantanamo.

Either Bush couldn't prosecute because of his torturing of prisoners or because there was no evidence of terrorist links to begin with.

Either way Bush was in violation of our laws.

no, i brought him up because he is well know and was in the news recently and he got off on a technicality
its the same issue

 

[DiveCon]

Yep. And.......I'd be willing to bet that Bush and Cheney are brought up on criminal charges in about a year or two, with a conviction and jail as the result.

Can't wait.

you can always dream

 

[wihosa]

We can only hope.

 

[Tech_Esq]

release them all into washington dc............

Hey! Fuck you, some of us have to live here!

 

[Tech_Esq]

Yep. And.......I'd be willing to bet that Bush and Cheney are brought up on criminal charges in about a year or two, with a conviction and jail as the result.

Can't wait.

I don't believe you dislike your country that much. The effect of that would be much more profound on the country as a whole than it ever would on the individuals at issue.

 

[wihosa]

You are just bringing up Bill Ayers in a pathetic attempt to link Obama to his Ayers past behavior. But of course Ayers is irrelevant to the discussion of why Bush failed to prosecute the "worst of the worst", the people Bush put in his extra-legal prison in Guantanamo.

Either Bush couldn't prosecute because of his torturing of prisoners or because there was no evidence of terrorist links to begin with.

Either way Bush was in violation of our laws.

no, i brought him up because he is well know and was in the news recently and he got off on a technicality
its the same issue

You mean like the technicality that Oliver North had his conviction overturned on?

Regardless of your insistance that Ayers "got off on a technicality" it certainly is not "the same issue" as Bush has yet to be scrutinized by any legal authority whereas by your own statement Ayers clearly was.

So again answer for Bush, don't try to change the subject by bringing up something unrelated.

 

[DiveCon]

You are just bringing up Bill Ayers in a pathetic attempt to link Obama to his Ayers past behavior. But of course Ayers is irrelevant to the discussion of why Bush failed to prosecute the "worst of the worst", the people Bush put in his extra-legal prison in Guantanamo.

Either Bush couldn't prosecute because of his torturing of prisoners or because there was no evidence of terrorist links to begin with.

Either way Bush was in violation of our laws.

no, i brought him up because he is well know and was in the news recently and he got off on a technicality
its the same issue

You mean like the technicality that Oliver North had his conviction overturned on?

Regardless of your insistance that Ayers "got off on a technicality" it certainly is not "the same issue" as Bush has yet to be scrutinized by any legal authority whereas by your own statement Ayers clearly was.

So again answer for Bush, don't try to change the subject by bringing up something unrelated.

similar, yes
but Norths wasnt overturned, it was vacated
and yes, there is a difference

and i didnt change anything, i brought up a comparision that was VALID

you can not charge the guys in gitmo in our civil courts because the military is not a police force
they are not trained in evidence presevation

 

[KittenKoder]

no, i brought him up because he is well know and was in the news recently and he got off on a technicality
its the same issue

You mean like the technicality that Oliver North had his conviction overturned on?

Regardless of your insistance that Ayers "got off on a technicality" it certainly is not "the same issue" as Bush has yet to be scrutinized by any legal authority whereas by your own statement Ayers clearly was.

So again answer for Bush, don't try to change the subject by bringing up something unrelated.

similar, yes
but Norths wasnt overturned, it was vacated
and yes, there is a difference

and i didnt change anything, i brought up a comparision that was VALID

you can not charge the guys in gitmo in our civil courts because the military is not a police force
they are not trained in evidence presevation

Even if it was possible to train them in such matters .... who really would want to pay for that? Talk about a tax hike.

There were some people running Gitmo who were torturing for no reason at all, but all these finger pointers let them get away already because they were too busy pointing fingers to get anything done ... oh well ... hindsight and all.

 

[DiveCon]

You mean like the technicality that Oliver North had his conviction overturned on?

Regardless of your insistance that Ayers "got off on a technicality" it certainly is not "the same issue" as Bush has yet to be scrutinized by any legal authority whereas by your own statement Ayers clearly was.

So again answer for Bush, don't try to change the subject by bringing up something unrelated.

similar, yes
but Norths wasnt overturned, it was vacated
and yes, there is a difference

and i didnt change anything, i brought up a comparision that was VALID

you can not charge the guys in gitmo in our civil courts because the military is not a police force
they are not trained in evidence presevation

Even if it was possible to train them in such matters .... who really would want to pay for that? Talk about a tax hike.

There were some people running Gitmo who were torturing for no reason at all, but all these finger pointers let them get away already because they were too busy pointing fingers to get anything done ... oh well ... hindsight and all.

i'm really becoming more and more of a ceterist the more i see idiots from both sides taking everything to the extremes like this

 

[Tech_Esq]

You are just bringing up Bill Ayers in a pathetic attempt to link Obama to his Ayers past behavior. But of course Ayers is irrelevant to the discussion of why Bush failed to prosecute the "worst of the worst", the people Bush put in his extra-legal prison in Guantanamo.

Either Bush couldn't prosecute because of his torturing of prisoners or because there was no evidence of terrorist links to begin with.

Either way Bush was in violation of our laws.

Conclusory and incorrect statement of the law in effect at the time. In dealing with a case of first impression (an international terror organization with the reach and funding to directly carry out attacks on US soil and potentially the sustainability to repeat or continue those attacks), Bush had to determine what the status was of individuals who were captured on the battlefield in this "new" type war. Under the Geneva convention, those people who are armed, ununiformed and participating in hostile action in the battle area are illegal combatants. They are subject to prosecution by the capturing entity under that entity's laws. In many countries, participating in armed combat against a counties government is punishable by death. In many cases, summary execution.

The Bush administration took a more moderate approach than that. They recognized them at legitimate enemy combatants. They then detained them as they would have POWs and treated them with the same accord owed POWs. They did fight over legal status because of the legal meaning of POW and what it would mean for these prisoners vis-a-vis this war.

If they were truly POWs they would never be tried. The would be detained until the cessation of hostilities. Whenever that may be. Who knows, the Russians kept the Germans from WW II until 1955. Ten years after the war ended.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Yep. And.......I'd be willing to bet that Bush and Cheney are brought up on criminal charges in about a year or two, with a conviction and jail as the result.

Can't wait.

I don't believe you dislike your country that much. The effect of that would be much more profound on the country as a whole than it ever would on the individuals at issue.

How so? Because, after the Republicans implode (I think they're reaching critical mass), then there isn't going to be anyone that cares if they are in jail or not. Matter of fact, I'd be willing to bet that those of us left after the destruction of the GOP are going to be rather happy over the fact.

 

[KittenKoder]

similar, yes
but Norths wasnt overturned, it was vacated
and yes, there is a difference

and i didnt change anything, i brought up a comparision that was VALID

you can not charge the guys in gitmo in our civil courts because the military is not a police force
they are not trained in evidence presevation

Even if it was possible to train them in such matters .... who really would want to pay for that? Talk about a tax hike.

There were some people running Gitmo who were torturing for no reason at all, but all these finger pointers let them get away already because they were too busy pointing fingers to get anything done ... oh well ... hindsight and all.

i'm really becoming more and more of a ceterist the more i see idiots from both sides taking everything to the extremes like this

Welcome to the club.

 

[KittenKoder]

Yep. And.......I'd be willing to bet that Bush and Cheney are brought up on criminal charges in about a year or two, with a conviction and jail as the result.

Can't wait.

I don't believe you dislike your country that much. The effect of that would be much more profound on the country as a whole than it ever would on the individuals at issue.

How so? Because, after the Republicans implode (I think they're reaching critical mass), then there isn't going to be anyone that cares if they are in jail or not. Matter of fact, I'd be willing to bet that those of us left after the destruction of the GOP are going to be rather happy over the fact.

Dems are following the exact same track, just on the other side.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Yep. And.......I'd be willing to bet that Bush and Cheney are brought up on criminal charges in about a year or two, with a conviction and jail as the result.

Can't wait.

I don't believe you dislike your country that much. The effect of that would be much more profound on the country as a whole than it ever would on the individuals at issue.

How so? Because, after the Republicans implode (I think they're reaching critical mass), then there isn't going to be anyone that cares if they are in jail or not. Matter of fact, I'd be willing to bet that those of us left after the destruction of the GOP are going to be rather happy over the fact.

I understand what you say from a partisan prospective, but the World doesn't give a rat's ass whether they were Reps or Dems, to them it's just Americans. If the Americans say, by putting them in jail or whatever, "Hey, yeah, we fucked up and went cowboy for a while. But see, we fixed it. We put the assholes in jail. Now you can believe us when we tell you stuff again."

They'll get one message. America is fucked up and they don't know what in the hell they are doing. The Europeans in particular will just roll their eyes and think we are the stupidest fucks on the face of the planet for not knowing how to preserve our power and place. It would be tantamount to the US committing political suicide.

 

[wihosa]

It does not matter what the Bush Admin chose to call the people they locked up in Guantanamo. No matter who they are or what they are accussed of doing, torture is against US law. There are no exceptions, period.

And yes for those of you who are easily fooled, waterboarding is torture. That's why the US prosecuted Japanese soldiers for torture after they waterboarded American prisoners in WWII.

 

[Tech_Esq]

It does not matter what the Bush Admin chose to call the people they locked up in Guantanamo. No matter who they are or what they are accussed of doing, torture is against US law. There are no exceptions, period.

And yes for those of you who are easily fooled, waterboarding is torture. That's why the US prosecuted Japanese soldiers for torture after they waterboarded American prisoners in WWII.

Actually it does matter and if you don't know why, you need to go study up.

 

[DiveCon]

It does not matter what the Bush Admin chose to call the people they locked up in Guantanamo. No matter who they are or what they are accussed of doing, torture is against US law. There are no exceptions, period.

And yes for those of you who are easily fooled, waterboarding is torture. That's why the US prosecuted Japanese soldiers for torture after they waterboarded American prisoners in WWII.

ok, how many of them were tortured?
that is assuming you are correct that ANY were tortured, and if you include waterboarding as torture