Bush official admits innocent at Gitmo

[garyd]

Can you show they are innocent no of corse not you only assume some of them are and that the oens who were haven't long since been released.

 

[Red Dawn]

Can you show they are innocent no of corse not you only assume some of them are and that the oens who were haven't long since been released.

so its your contention that every single person in Gitmo is guilty, and there is no need to charge them with anything, or prove their guilt. They can just be held without charges for years on end.

gotcha.


that doesn't seem very american to me, but I assume you vote republican?

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Ex-Bush admin official: Many at Gitmo are innocent

I am shocked!

Well I see a lot of implication... but no actual substance on which those implications rests...

The only substantiation is that the Col. is a former member of the Bush administration... a very low level functionary and that's he a Republican... WHOO HOO!

Beyond that, he's advancing his opinion and while it's nice that he was a member of the BA... and that he's a Republican... that in no way even SUGGESTS that his assessment is accurate.

The article leans HEAVY on a failure to vet detainees status as an illegal combatant in the field... but the Col. didn't, at least within the scope of the article, say HOW such vetting SHOULD have been carried out; what's more the article claims that GITMO is still holding "innocents" but he doesn't provide any basis in evidence on what that even means... or specifics as to WHO THESE PEOPLE ARE...

Where are the names? If they're innocent and he knows who they are, the evidence which proves their innocense AND that the Bush administration was the reason that they WERE CAPTURED AND REMAIN THERE... it didn't even occur to the author of this "report' THAT THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION IS NO LONGER OPEATING AS THE US CinC... SO WHY ARE THEY STILL THERE?

I'd say that what ya have here is a boat load of conjecture... from a not so conservative Republican, who is looking for his 15 minutes and has no other way to do so than to stand on the back of the Bush Administration...

With that said... As I spoke to above, there are certainly degrees of innocence.. and I seriously doubt, that there are people who are known to be innocent being held at Gitmo because it would embarass someone if they were released.

It's absurd... People are wrongly detained by US law enforcement EVERY DAY... and it's almost ALWAYS for good reasons, despite being a MISTAKE; and Law enforcement is not even AT WAR... Yet those folks are released.

And it's not enough to claim that they were detained longer than a REASONABLE period given the vetting process at GITMO could provide because that process is not controlled by the US CIVILIAN JUDICIARY...

I do not believe that reasonable men, of whom the US military is comprised, would knowingly detain innocent men FOR YEARS just to keep them around for trinkets of information.

First... their detainment would necessarily relegate ANYTHING that they had to offer about their village or region to that of "STALE"... How the hell would haji know what was going on in his village when his brown ass is locked up in Club Gitmo?

He wouldn't...

And Haji's value as an intelligence resource would be of substantially LESS value, after at the MOST, a month, than ANYONE that lives in the village, who, AT WORST, US intelligent operatives could not snatch right off the street for some one on one 'let's get to know one another' conversation, RIGHT THERE IN IRAQ or AFGHANISTAN... AT ANY TIME. So that just doesn't wash...

It does however serve to feed a lovely popular consensus... which is sure to give someone some notoriety... which it appears is all this screed amounts to.

 

[Gunny]

If he was the only one to state this, that is one thing.

The true believers will go to their graves knowing that everyone who was put in Gitmo and tortured was the worst of the worst.

History, of course, will prove you fools.

Unlike you proving yourself a fool daily.

I can think of a LOT of issues apply your simplistic, "if he was the only one to state this" rationale to that would have you squealing like a pig.

There are undoubtedly innocents in EVERY prison in this country. What about THEM? That's right ... you can't blame them on Bush so who gives a fuck about 'em, right?

Crystal is hazy compared to your transparency.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Several things here........

Bush lied about the economy for the past 2 years, and it is just now coming to light how badly he screwed us.

Cheney denied that we did torture in GITMO for the whole time he was in office, repeatedly told the American people that we don't torture or waterboard. Now? He's admitted it publicly on television (after he got out), that we DID waterboard and torture detainees.

I also find it kinda strange that they wanted to keep them out of the US as well. Especially in light of the fact that Cheney was building prisons left and right in Texas. Why couldn't they be detained and kept here? We've currently got criminals in our prisons RIGHT NOW who are more dangerous than GITMO detainees.

So........if we've been told all those lies over the past 8 years, why is it when something like this comes to light, everyone wants to say it's not true.

Remember.........there were plenty of the GOP that were telling us we didn't waterboard and we weren't in a recession.

I think he may be telling the truth.

 

[Gunny]

Several things here........

Bush lied about the economy for the past 2 years, and it is just now coming to light how badly he screwed us.

Cheney denied that we did torture in GITMO for the whole time he was in office, repeatedly told the American people that we don't torture or waterboard. Now? He's admitted it publicly on television (after he got out), that we DID waterboard and torture detainees.

I also find it kinda strange that they wanted to keep them out of the US as well. Especially in light of the fact that Cheney was building prisons left and right in Texas. Why couldn't they be detained and kept here? We've currently got criminals in our prisons RIGHT NOW who are more dangerous than GITMO detainees.

So........if we've been told all those lies over the past 8 years, why is it when something like this comes to light, everyone wants to say it's not true.

Remember.........there were plenty of the GOP that were telling us we didn't waterboard and we weren't in a recession.

I think he may be telling the truth.

You might want to edit your post. It's full of shit from the first line to the last.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Here's something else. IF these people are so damned innocent, and the military is holding them merely because they want information from them, why are they refusing to simply give them the info they want, thus remaining in custody? Don't you think a truly innocent person would cooperate fully in order to facilitate being released?

 

[Shadow]

Here's something else. IF these people are so damned innocent, and the military is holding them merely because they want information from them, why are they refusing to simply give them the info they want, thus remaining in custody? Don't you think a truly innocent person would cooperate fully in order to facilitate being released?

Not to mention the folks being held aren't even wanted back by their own homelands,because they are dangerous. Figures the libbies want them to be released in the USA...morons.

 

[DavidS]

Here's something else. IF these people are so damned innocent, and the military is holding them merely because they want information from them, why are they refusing to simply give them the info they want, thus remaining in custody? Don't you think a truly innocent person would cooperate fully in order to facilitate being released?

Are you there, down in Gitmo to know the exact questions they're asking? Do you know if these people who they're holding actually have the answers to the questions they're being asked? No. So all of your conjecture is absolutely fucking useless.

 

[manu1959]

Here's something else. IF these people are so damned innocent, and the military is holding them merely because they want information from them, why are they refusing to simply give them the info they want, thus remaining in custody? Don't you think a truly innocent person would cooperate fully in order to facilitate being released?

Are you there, down in Gitmo to know the exact questions they're asking? Do you know if these people who they're holding actually have the answers to the questions they're being asked? No. So all of your conjecture is absolutely fucking useless.

aren't you in the same boat.......

they don't have a count of the alleged innocent......and if they are innocent why hasn't dark bush released them yet.....

 

[Cecilie1200]

Here's something else. IF these people are so damned innocent, and the military is holding them merely because they want information from them, why are they refusing to simply give them the info they want, thus remaining in custody? Don't you think a truly innocent person would cooperate fully in order to facilitate being released?

Not to mention the folks being held aren't even wanted back by their own homelands,because they are dangerous. Figures the libbies want them to be released in the USA...morons.

I did notice that in an earlier story about the Obama administration trying to figure out what to do with detainees when they close Gitmo. Their home countries refuse to take them back.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Here's something else. IF these people are so damned innocent, and the military is holding them merely because they want information from them, why are they refusing to simply give them the info they want, thus remaining in custody? Don't you think a truly innocent person would cooperate fully in order to facilitate being released?

Are you there, down in Gitmo to know the exact questions they're asking? Do you know if these people who they're holding actually have the answers to the questions they're being asked? No. So all of your conjecture is absolutely fucking useless.

So you figure that the military is asking them questions, the people are going, "I don't know anything! I'm cooperating fully!" and the military is just deciding not to believe them and keeping them anyway? Do you have any reason to believe that the military is holding them just for kicks, or doesn't know how to interrogate properly? No? So your response, as always, is absolutely fucking useless.

 

[manu1959]

Here's something else. IF these people are so damned innocent, and the military is holding them merely because they want information from them, why are they refusing to simply give them the info they want, thus remaining in custody? Don't you think a truly innocent person would cooperate fully in order to facilitate being released?

Not to mention the folks being held aren't even wanted back by their own homelands,because they are dangerous. Figures the libbies want them to be released in the USA...morons.

I did notice that in an earlier story about the Obama administration trying to figure out what to do with detainees when they close Gitmo. Their home countries refuse to take them back.

inan interview last week holder said they were exploring releasing them into the population......guess they will make them citizens and give them bail out funds......

our fucking politicians take better care and protect the rights of foreign nationals than the people that fund their stupidity.....

 

[ABikerSailor]

I don't want them released here. I think they should be treated like any other non-citizen who is caught doing a crime here........throw 'em in jail, give 'em a trial, punish them, and send 'em home.

However.............

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkILjPu3KTE]YouTube - ABC Cheney Admits Torture Guilt!![/ame]

Dick Cheney charged over abuse in private prisons
US vice president Dick Cheney has been charged with "organised criminal activity" over allegations about abuse in privately-run prisons.


By Tom Leonard in New York
Last Updated: 10:35PM GMT 19 Nov 2008
Dick Cheney Alberto Gonzales - Dick Cheney charged over jail 'abuses'
Dick Cheney and former attorney general Alberto Gonzales have been indicted by a Texas jury Photo: AFP/GETTY IMAGES

A grand jury in south Texas indicted Mr Cheney and Alberto Gonzales, the former Attorney General, on state charges that they blocked an investigation into the mistreatment of prisoners.

The indictment cites a "money trail" relating to Mr Cheney's financial stake in prison-related businesses, including the Vanguard Group, which has an interest in privately-run federal jails in the region.

According to a grand jury in Willacy County, Mr Cheney is "is "profiteering from depriving human beings of their liberty".

It also accuses him of a conflict of interest and of "at least misdemeanour assaults" on inmates because of his links to the prison companies.

Mr Gonzales is accused of using his position to "stop the investigations as to the wrong doings" in county prisons.

The grand jury wrote that it made its decision "with great sadness" but said it had no other choice but to indict the pair "because we love our country".

The indictment – which is being overseen by Juan Guerra, the local district attorney – has not been seen by a judge, who could dismiss it.

Juan Guerra has a history of launching eccentric court and political battles, and critics accused him of trying to settle old scores in his final weeks in office.

However, he insisted the decision to bring charges was made by the grand jury not by him.

Dick Cheney charged over abuse in private prisons - Telegraph

Your witness Gunny........

 

[garyd]

So an out of control DA in Texas or for that matter anywhere else can get charges against anyone anywhere at anytime via a grand Jury. And what is Chaney's connection he has some stock in the company via a blind trust as required by federaql law of anyone holding public office. By the Blind means that he isn't supposed to know what the holdings are so until this case appeared in the papers he may well not even have known he has shares in the company.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Yo, garyd, what kind of moronic asshole are you? A neo-con?

Get stuffed moron.

Cheney has done some very bad things, no matter HOW tight you wanna shut your beady little eyes.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Several things here........

Bush lied about the economy for the past 2 years, and it is just now coming to light how badly he screwed us.

Gee... this would have been a great spot to post an example of Bush Lying to us about the economy... I mean you claim that there are 2 yeears worth of lies... So reason requires that a person which is in possession of such a litany of lies would post ONE... yet ya didn't...

Cheney denied that we did torture in GITMO for the whole time he was in office, repeatedly told the American people that we don't torture or waterboard. Now? He's admitted it publicly on television (after he got out), that we DID waterboard and torture detainees.

Water-boarding is not torture... and I see an assertion, but no supporting evidence... Huh... I wonder why that is...

I also find it kinda strange that they wanted to keep them out of the US as well.

You find it strange that the US CinC would want to keep Terrorist out of the US?

I find that a wonderfully refreshing honesty... Thank you for that... most leftists wouldn't admit that they find it strange that an American who's in charge of US security would want to keep terrorists out of the US... BRAVO!

Especially in light of the fact that Cheney was building prisons left and right in Texas.

Was he? Where are these Texas Prisons that "Cheney was building"?

Why couldn't they be detained and kept here? We've currently got criminals in our prisons RIGHT NOW who are more dangerous than GITMO detainees.

The reason was to prevent you idiots from trying to convert illegal combatants into innocent civilians; erroneously imparting the protections afforded CIVILIANS WHO ARE RIGHTFULLY ENTITLED TO BE CONSIDERED INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY... the necessary and just threshold of CIVIL JUSTICE... Illegal Combatants are presumed GUILTY. All that needs to be established is that they were engaged in combat absent insignia declaring them combatants and that they were not garrisoned in locations distinct from civilian populations... after that, it's a CERTAINTY that they are GUILTY...

So........if we've been told all those lies over the past 8 years, why is it when something like this comes to light, everyone wants to say it's not true.

That would be due to the stark absence of evidence which would reasonably lead one to conclude that it's true.

Remember.........there were plenty of the GOP that were telling us we didn't waterboard and we weren't in a recession.

I don't know of any Republican that said we weren't waterboarding... which one are you speaking of? SPECIFICALLY?

Show us where the US Economy realized two consequitive quarters of negative growth...

As a fiscal quarter is the period by which financial data is reported and it would take TWO qrtrs to indicate a trend towards NEGATIVE GROWTH... OKA: A RECEDING ECONOMY.

I think...

Sadly, there's no evidence of that either...

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

I don't want them released here. I think they should be treated like any other non-citizen who is caught doing a crime here........throw 'em in jail, give 'em a trial, punish them, and send 'em home.

However.............

YouTube - ABC Cheney Admits Torture Guilt!!

Dick Cheney charged over abuse in private prisons
US vice president Dick Cheney has been charged with "organised criminal activity" over allegations about abuse in privately-run prisons.


By Tom Leonard in New York
Last Updated: 10:35PM GMT 19 Nov 2008
Dick Cheney Alberto Gonzales - Dick Cheney charged over jail 'abuses'
Dick Cheney and former attorney general Alberto Gonzales have been indicted by a Texas jury Photo: AFP/GETTY IMAGES

A grand jury in south Texas indicted Mr Cheney and Alberto Gonzales, the former Attorney General, on state charges that they blocked an investigation into the mistreatment of prisoners.

The indictment cites a "money trail" relating to Mr Cheney's financial stake in prison-related businesses, including the Vanguard Group, which has an interest in privately-run federal jails in the region.

According to a grand jury in Willacy County, Mr Cheney is "is "profiteering from depriving human beings of their liberty".

It also accuses him of a conflict of interest and of "at least misdemeanour assaults" on inmates because of his links to the prison companies.

Mr Gonzales is accused of using his position to "stop the investigations as to the wrong doings" in county prisons.

The grand jury wrote that it made its decision "with great sadness" but said it had no other choice but to indict the pair "because we love our country".

The indictment – which is being overseen by Juan Guerra, the local district attorney – has not been seen by a judge, who could dismiss it.

Juan Guerra has a history of launching eccentric court and political battles, and critics accused him of trying to settle old scores in his final weeks in office.

However, he insisted the decision to bring charges was made by the grand jury not by him.

Dick Cheney charged over abuse in private prisons - Telegraph

Your witness Gunny........

Waterboarding is not torture... speaking as someone who's actually been waterboarded; this in contrast to say... YOU!

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Yo, garyd, what kind of moronic asshole are you? A neo-con?

Get stuffed moron.

Cheney has done some very bad things, no matter HOW tight you wanna shut your beady little eyes.

What SPECIFIC 'Bad things" has Cheney done? And when you fail to provide ANY valid evidence that such is the case, in a reasonable period of time, you will, through that failure CONCEDE that you're completely full of shit.

Take all day...

 

[garyd]

The only MOron here biker girl is you. You buy hook line and sinker every damn bit of Swill the left puts in your bowl without even bothering to think it through first.

Hence you have no idea what the hell you are talking about.