Bush Is Wrong: Americans Overwhelmingly Favor Working With UN, Being Multilateralist

Discussion in 'Politics' started by NATO AIR, Oct 3, 2004.

  1. NATO AIR
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    NATO AIR Senior Member

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    so much for him winning many points in the future by knocking kerry for the "global test" remark
    (psst, hit kerry for being inconsistent and contradictory prez)

    this is just more reason why a 2nd term pres. bush or a pres. kerry must work very hard to reform the UN so we can actually use it and take it from a sad joke (what it is today) into a working institution.

    (and this article is written by the notably conservative, iraq war supporter fareed zakaria, not some neurotic liberal living in la-la land)

     
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  2. insein
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    insein Senior Member

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    [​IMG]fuck the UN. [​IMG]
     
  3. no1tovote4
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    no1tovote4 VIP Member

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    I simply do not even know one personally and therefore take that statement and this article with a huge grain of salt. I have seriously Democrat friends that don't like the global test thing.
     
  4. NATO AIR
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    NATO AIR Senior Member

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    most dems are not the neurotic liberal type, but enough of them are to embarass the party and too many times hijack or poison its platform. there are the people who claim we don't intervene in darfur because we're racist, or we intervened in kosovo to control the soon to be built oil pipeline there, or that we invaded iraq to get oil, or that we should let the UN make our major foreign policy decisions.
     
  5. NATO AIR
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    NATO AIR Senior Member

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    hey, i have great anger towards the UN over Iraq and Darfur, but I'm not quite willing to give up just yet. There are enough nations in the world with legitimate power (India, Japan, Britain and America, not to mention numerous others in the Americas, Africa and Asia) who want to try to reform the UN. Perhaps one last chance, with our best effort put forward to enact change. We can do it, I do believe.
     
  6. NATO AIR
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    NATO AIR Senior Member

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    then they had the gall to claim higher morality when we went to war, criticizing us for killing innocent people while their greed sent hundreds of thousands to their deaths and wrecked iraq's infrastructure

    yes reform must happen or else... the UN moves to Paris
     
  7. 007
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    007 Charter Member Supporting Member

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    Before the u.n. is good for anything at all, there needs to be a deep, thorough, and unpartail investigation into the oil for food scandal, which by the way is still developing, not to mention all the other corruption, and all those involved need to be jailed, deported and/or fired.

    Until then, I wouldn't trust the u.n. to take out my garbage.

    Whatever poll you used to make the claim "most people agree" about the United States saying how high and when should we come down everytime the u.n. says jump, I think that poll is probably as crocked as the u.n. is. I don't believe it.
     
  8. NATO AIR
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    NATO AIR Senior Member

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    i wholeheartedly agree... that's why i'm glad congress and fox news are pursuing it so doggedly and fully.
     
  9. Merlin1047
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    Merlin1047 Senior Member

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    Don't know what land Fareed is living in, but I doubt that it's the same as most Americans. There are numerous holes in his article which you failed to notice.

    First, the source of the study is the Chicago Council on Foreign Relations. Chicago? Give me a break here for crying out loud. Here is their own description regarding their group taken from their website:
    http://www.globalchicago.org/about/default.asp

    "Global Chicago is a collaborative project whose mission is to enhance Chicago's strengths as a global city and raise awareness - both here and abroad - of Chicago's global connections by:

    identifying Chicago's global assets and its economic, social, intellectual and cultural links to the rest of the world,
    facilitating communication and collaboration among internationally-minded groups, and
    helping Chicagoans understand the challenges and opportunities of globalization."

    The mission statement of their "Council on Foreign Relations:
    http://www.globalchicago.org/about/welcome.asp
    "The Global Chicago Center of the Chicago Council on Foreign Relations is a collaborative project designed to raise awareness of the various global connections that exist in Chicago, improve communication and cooperation among internationally-minded groups, enhance Chicago's global profile, and help Chicagoans respond effectively to the challenges of globalization. Find out about the history of the Global Chicago Project (MacArthur Report), and read the Global Chicago (Brochure) for more information."

    http://www.ccfr.org/about/about.html

    "The Chicago Council on Foreign Relations (CCFR) is one of the largest independent, non-profit international affairs organizations in the United States, serving over 7,000 members and the community through diversified programming. The Council provides members, specialized groups and the general public with a forum for the consideration of significant international issues and their bearing on American foreign policy. In over 150 meetings annually, including lectures, seminars, conferences, publications, a travel program and other activities, the CCFR seeks to represent all sides of complex issues on the global agenda. Council events feature major policy makers and other foreign experts from around the world, offering participants the opportunity to ask questions, voice their opinions and engage in candid discussions.

    The Council's goal is to further awareness and broaden understanding of international relations and foreign policy as well as promote Chicago's status as an important international center. In addition to remaining the premier platform in the Midwest for international leaders in foreign policy, the Council strives to take the lead in gaining recognition for Chicago as an international business center for the corporate community and to broaden and deepen the Council's role in the community."

    The council is manned by Han Sung Joo, former ambassador to the US from the Republic of Korea, Grant Aldonas, a career State Department bureacrat, and Kenneth Dam, an internationalist egghead, lawyer, State Department hack until he joined the Treasury Department in 2001. No, these guys don't have any agenda, of course not.

    I could find no mention of the methodology used to derive the statistics cited by the study. I suspect that they went downton Chicago and interrupted some break dancing, drug sales and muggings to ask their questions. Chicago is as liberal as New York, Seattle or San Francisco. It is no surprise that these people could find the numbers to support their pre-conceived conclusions.

    There is no doubt that if you conduct your poll among most liberals you would come up with numbers similar to those cited in the article. However if you look around this board, you come up with decidedly different figures. Even the author of the article is an internationalist. The only thing that this proves is that anyone with an agenda can conduct a poll of a carefully chosen group and come up figures supporting any point of view.

    And simply for the sake of honesty, let me add "Screw the UN". They are a total waste of our resources, including the air they breathe.
     
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  10. NATO AIR
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    NATO AIR Senior Member

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    and what a way to break it down, but let me add that can be done to any poll anyone ever posts on here, we'll never know the exact truth until every single american is polled on it, something that i doubt will ever happen for any issue
     

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