Bush Foreign Policy "Clintonian" In Sudan

Discussion in 'General Global Topics' started by NATO AIR, Apr 15, 2005.

  1. NATO AIR
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    NATO AIR Senior Member

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    now we have the no.2 american diplomat saying what's happening in darfur isn't a genocide.

    hmm, you know what this sounds like?

    "just die you damn dirty africans, just die! you're ruining our glorious peace deal we're all going to have a legacy for!"

    this is bullshit, why is pres. bush letting his people act like this is the clinton administration, not the bush administration? like we can negotiate with jihadists who have never kept a promise before. like we can trust them. like we should trust them. like we should abandon the people who are being EXTERMINATED and embrace the people responsible for it.

     
  2. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    I don't know NATO, this seems a bit different:

    http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050415/wl_nm/sudan_zoellick_dc_12

     
  3. NATO AIR
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    NATO AIR Senior Member

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    He's giving them a free pass. Going along with what the UN is saying about it not being a genocide ("there's a debate", please give me a fucking break, like the UN or EU even has a right to talk about genocide). Fueling uncertainity and confusion. Hey Zoellick, grow some balls, call it what you know it is, and don't kowtow to Khartoum like you're Sean Penn in Baghdad (the regime isn't that bad you know?)

    We shouldn't be negotiating with these bastards in the first place. I'd threaten to massively arm, supply and train the South and the rebels in Darfur unless the genocide in Darfur stops immediately.

    http://www.state.gov/s/d/rm/44656.htm
    QUESTION: Jonah Fischer, BBC. Secretary of State Powell last year was the first to say what’s going on in Darfur is genocide. Is the United States’ position that genocide is still going on? How many people does the United States think have died in Darfur? (Inaudible).

    DEPUTY SECRETARY ZOELLICK: The State Department analysis has been that the number of people who died beyond what would normally die is in the range of sixty to a hundred and sixty, as I believe. That’s thousands. There are numbers that are higher and what I would emphasize in this is that I don’t think anybody could know for sure. So, I think, you know, one has to be cautious with all these estimates, but since you asked I gave you sort of, our range estimate. But recognize that I, as a policy maker, take it with a certain degree of uncertainty around the sides.

    And as for your first question, well, Secretary Powell made the point he did because he believes strongly and Secretary Rice believes strongly, and I believe strongly, that what has gone on in Darfur, has to stop. It’s been a terrible series of events and as you know, there’s a debate. The UN did a legal analysis of whether this is genocide and their conclusion was it was crimes of humanity as opposed to genocide. I really don’t want to get into a debate about terminology because I think what we have to do is try to solve the problem and solve both the humanitarian problem and solve the political underlying conditions that led to it. So, I don’t want to get in a conflict with the UN about the structure. You know, my government has spoken about what we thought occurred but frankly, the reason I’m here is not just to talk about terminology but to try to deal with the underlying problem.
     
  4. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    OK, have to agree, he's a State Department grad. :rolleyes:
     
  5. NATO AIR
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    NATO AIR Senior Member

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    Please forgive me.

    Just consider what Sudan has been getting away in the past week that the international community has sat back and tolerated.

    - attacking humanitarian aid workers
    - wiping out an entire village of innocent people.
    - sending militia allies to attack Southern positions
    - attacking a Chadian diplomat's convoy.
    - threatening to let the militia leaders join with Bin Laden and start "jihad" (considering their crimes so far, how the hell they figure they haven't started it already?) if the West/UN harms them

    We need a retired Marine who's seen what the janjaweed/Sudanese military has done to the people of Darfur to be the State Dept's sole rep. to Sudan, the only person Sudan is allowed to talk to, the only person they're allowed to deal with.
     
  6. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    No forgiveness necessary, the rolleyes was towards the State Department, not you! :thup:
     
  7. NATO AIR
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    NATO AIR Senior Member

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    :), that's why you need to work for Condi.

    Btw, me and my new Japanese AI friend are taking bets on when AU peace monitors start getting taken hostage by the Sudanese. Wanna join in?

    This thing is looking more and more like Bosnia every week.
     
  8. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    I agree with the Bosnia comparison, one must remember that Europe was not effective in that ON THEIR OWN CONTINENT! They should be joining us for serious UN military intervention, even if it means US/UK/AU but with others footing the bill...
     
  9. NATO AIR
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    Journalists and students I've talked to from Uganda, Rwanda, Kenya and Tanzania seem to be of the mind those 4 nations would be keen on being the African members of the Coalition of the Willing (to Save Darfur). I definitely figure the Rwandans and Ugandans would want to stop it, their own experiences with genocide and mass murder giving their soldiers motivation to do something about Darfur.

    As for myself, I offered to write Pres. Bush's speech to Americans as to why we're sending forces to Darfur. Too bad they weren't interested :)
     
  10. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    Write it and send it to Karl Rove! See if anything comes of it. Avoid hyperbole.
     

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