Bush Envoy Wants Jailed Palestinian Leader Released

NATO AIR

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Jun 25, 2004
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and he should be, because he is likely to win the elections in january and is probably the only man strong enough to stand up to Hamas and their ilk, as well as to the corrupt factions of the Palestinian Authority.

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0445/fahim.php

Bush Envoy Calls on Israel to Release Jailed Palestinian Leader
by Kareem Fahim
November 12th, 2004 3:15 PM

During an interview with host Larry King on CNN last night, James. A Baker, the former U.S. secretary of state, who currently serves as the Bush administration's special envoy on Iraqi debt, called on the Israeli government to release Marwan Barghouti, the jailed Palestinian leader who is serving five life sentences in an Israeli jail for ordering attacks against Israel.

Israel has ruled out any early release for the popular Barghouti, often mentioned as a successor to Yasser Arafat, who died on Thursday. Israeli foreign minister Silvan Shalom was quoted yesterday saying that Barghouti would remain in prison until "the last days of his life."

At Arafat's funeral in Ramallah this morning, many of his supporters were seen holding a picture of Arafat, who in turn is holding up a picture of Barghouti.

Baker served as secretary of state, and then chief of staff under George H.W. Bush, and had a pivotal role convening the Madrid Conference in 1991, a precursor to negotiations between the Israelis and the Palestinians during the last decade. Baker also served as a legal advisor to George W. Bush's campaign during the recount of votes in Florida after the contested 2000 presidential election.

"There is now. . . . in an Israeli prison a man named Marwan Barghouti, who is one of the young guard of Palestinians," Baker told King last night, speaking about the post–Yasser Arafat era. "And if the Palestinians are going to make this work against the really hard-line elements, the Islamists and some of the people of Hamas, they're going to have to have a coalition of the young guard and the old guard."

Baker continued, "t would be really a very positive step in the right direction if Israel would release Marwan Barghouti so that he could participate in bringing about this transition."

Barghouti, a longtime member of Arafat's Fatah faction, spent years in Israeli jails, and had roles in both of the Palestinian uprisings. Known among Palestinians as a homegrown leader—just 45, he spent most of his life in the West Bank, apart from several years exiled in Jordan—he was also a critic of corruption in the Palestinian Authority.

Barghouti's trial after his arrest in 2002 was a media event, and he worked to make it his own indictment of the Israeli occupation. He called the court illegitimate, with no jurisdiction to try him. "This occupation is dying," he said at his sentencing. "They had better start preparing its funeral."
 
I'm curious about this NATO ... If elections where held in the territories today, what type of leader do you think would emerge (not withstanding assasination) ?! I submit that the Palestinians have been so utterly brainwashed, and led so very far astray by their leadership, that they have not choice but to hate Israel. It's a purpose in a purposeless land. It's the one job that's hiering. Therefore, no leader can possibly emerge that advocates any land for peace on the Palestinian side. You are correct that this guy would probably win, but that's because he is not a moderate. He has no intention of negotiating either. It makes zero difference ... only the wall does. The de facto peacemaker.
 
DaTroof said:
I'm curious about this NATO ... If elections where held in the territories today, what type of leader do you think would emerge (not withstanding assasination) ?! I submit that the Palestinians have been so utterly brainwashed, and led so very far astray by their leadership, that they have not choice but to hate Israel. It's a purpose in a purposeless land. It's the one job that's hiering. Therefore, no leader can possibly emerge that advocates any land for peace on the Palestinian side. You are correct that this guy would probably win, but that's because he is not a moderate. He has no intention of negotiating either. It makes zero difference ... only the wall does. The de facto peacemaker.

he has been on record numerous times as saying there must be a two-state solution, that israel's occupation of gaza and the west bank is his main qualm, and that peace will have to happen one day, but only after the palestinians clean up their own house and rid their government of the rampant corruption and dangerous fundamentalism rotting the palestinian community from the core.

we shall see.
 
Arafat is on the record many times saying the exact same thing ... 2 state solution. Did you know that Mohamed actually allows his folowers to out and out lie to non-Muslems for the advancement of Islam ?! It's absolutely true. So my point is that I have heard a lot of lip service from a lot of Palestinian/Arab leaders and have yet to see anything physically change on the ground level. As long as the Palestinians are fed a steady stream of nonesense about retaking all of Israel, or the '67 lines, or Jerusalem as the capital they can dream on suckers. Want to move ahead, get over this whole right of return bullshit and the fanatical Islam blood cries and get on with it. Might want to do something about the 60% unemployment and irresponsible population growth while they are at it.

I say we just seperate the 2 states and let the Palestinians elect who they want and do as they please .. on their side of the wall. You are much much much more optimistic regarding Palestinian asperations than I am NATO, and I lived there for 13 years.
 
NATO AIR said:
of course, but i don't think he is. call it a feeling, this is the guy to lead the palestinians away from extremism and depotism and into democracy and peace.

Oh. You know what. I thought you were still talking about arafat there. I didn't read good.
 
LOL. Hey Nato. Would you be opposed to the wall just in case. Let the Palestinians elect this guy and let's see how he really does. See if he can actually excersize some semblence of control. I'll tell you why ... My sister and lots of family live in Jerusalem. I am not about to gamble their lives on any Muslem's promises ... mostly because I believe that this is one that he can't deliver even if he has awsome intentions .. which he doesn't. He wants the '67 borders which Israel won't give .. so end of story for this guy as the salvation. It comes down to this ... I trust a concrete wall more than I do any Muslem cum politician until I see a reason to change my view.

I know ... Israel should give back the land to the 67 borders. But you are from Japan, so there is little room to speak with regard to wholesale landgrabs. If you are from the US, what I just said still applies, and I reside in Ohio. Israel will not respect borders that even the Arab nations don't respect until it's a favorable situation for them. Did they respect the 48 borders ... NO. So why should I respect the borders that they now wish for ?
 
DaTroof said:
LOL. Hey Nato. Would you be opposed to the wall just in case. Let the Palestinians elect this guy and let's see how he really does. See if he can actually excersize some semblence of control. I'll tell you why ... My sister and lots of family live in Jerusalem. I am not about to gamble their lives on any Muslem's promises ... mostly because I believe that this is one that he can't deliver even if he has awsome intentions .. which he doesn't. He wants the '67 borders which Israel won't give .. so end of story for this guy as the salvation. It comes down to this ... I trust a concrete wall more than I do any Muslem cum politician until I see a reason to change my view.

I know ... Israel should give back the land to the 67 borders. But you are from Japan, so there is little room to speak with regard to wholesale landgrabs. If you are from the US, what I just said still applies, and I reside in Ohio. Israel will not respect borders that even the Arab nations don't respect until it's a favorable situation for them. Did they respect the 48 borders ... NO. So why should I respect the borders that they now wish for ?
However you only represent one faction in Israel. Other Israelis are willing to give the land for peace idea a chance. Admiit it---you don't want peace-you want the Arabs to disappear just as much as they would like to see you vanish. Denial runs thru Palestine--De Nile runs thru Africa.
 
dilloduck said:
However you only represent one faction in Israel. Other Israelis are willing to give the land for peace idea a chance. Admiit it---you don't want peace-you want the Arabs to disappear just as much as they would like to see you vanish. Denial runs thru Palestine--De Nile runs thru Africa.
sure, majority of the israelis will trade land for peace, question is how much land and how.
I doubt that majority will support some arbitrary line such as "green line". Even more, majority probably will not support 'peace under fire'.

In the datroof defence, i am yet to see him expressing the desire to "you want the Arabs to disappear just as much as they would like to see you vanish" (do not confuse him with aj), wall will not produce that effect. (imho)

cheers
 
Hey Dillo. Did I say that I wanted all of the land from river to sea ?! I said I advocate Jews remaining on some of the land rightfully conquered in 67 to ensure their survival. It's not all or nothing on either side. Both will have to compromise .. regarding the land taken in 67. Why would Israel give back land to sworn killers when lord knows if they had a chance they would exterminate every Israeli they can get their hands on. So no, I do not admit that I do not want peace ... I'm just not an idiot with my head buried. You ever heard the saying "fuck me once shame on you, fuck me twice, shame on me" ?! In this case it's a "fuck me at every opportunity" scenerio. Would you rather that Israel just appease ?! "Yes, you attack me a lot and blow crap up in my country all the time and teach your kids to hate me and dance in the streets at news of my people's death, but here's your land back .. please try again." Not bloody likely. Maybe it's time that you grow up too. There are consequences to actions, and one of them is that now the Palestinians have to take care of their own internal affairs, on their side of the wall. Trust me, the Muslim people will not "vanish" if bereft of those few square miles that the wall deviates from the 67 lines. Admit it, you are pretty certain that left to their own devices, the Palestinians would fail miserabely as a nation. The difference is that it's not your neck you want to gamble with. Stop looking at Israel as a tool for you to appease the Muslim world with. Ask Chamberlain if sacrificing Austria and Checoslovakia made Adolf even 1% less determined to stay his course.
 
Dillo .. Two more question. Do you really believe that the Palestinian - Israeli conflict is about a few square miles of deviation ? Before you answer, I warn you that I will bring up what was offered to the Palestinians in 2000 which they flatly rejected. Second question .. If Israel did relinquish everything up to the 67 border, do you think the Palestinians would let go of the ridiculous demand for right of return ?! I am suggesting that even if appeased, there might be no pleasing the Palestinians. Would love to hear your views. We seem to view things so very differently, just trying to get perspective of where you are coming from.
 

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