Bush and IQ

[shergald]

So let's discuss it. Can we really entrust the country another four years to this level of intellect?

In a report published Monday, the Lovenstein Institute of Scranton, Pennsylvania detailed its findings of a four month study of the intelligence quotient of President George W. Bush. Since 1973, the Lovenstein Institute has published its research to the education community on each new president, which includes the famous "IQ" report among others.

According to statements in the report, there have been twelve presidents over the past 50 years, from F. D. Roosevelt to G. W. Bush who were all rated based on scholarly achievements, writings that they alone produced without aid of staff, their ability to speak with clarity, and several other psychological factors which were then scored in the Swanson/Crain system of intelligence ranking.

The study determined the following IQs of each president as accurate to within five percentage points:
147 Franklin D. Roosevelt (D)
132 Harry Truman (D)
122 Dwight D. Eisenhower (r)
174 John F. Kennedy (D)
126 Lyndon B. Johnson (D)
155 Richard M. Nixon (r)
121 Gerald Ford (r)
175 James E. Carter (D)
105 Ronald Reagan (r)
098 George HW Bush (r)
182 William J. Clinton (D)
091 George W. Bush (r)

The six Republican presidents of the past 50 years had an average IQ of 115.5, with President Nixon having the highest IQ, at 155. President G. W. Bush was rated the lowest of all the Republicans with an IQ of 91. The six Democrat presidents had IQs with an average of 156, with President Clinton having the highest IQ, at 182. President Lyndon B. Johnson was rated the lowest of all the Democrats with an IQ of 126.

No president other than Carter (D) has released his actual IQ, 176. Among comments made concerning the specific testing of President GW Bush, his low ratings were due to his apparent difficulty to command the English language in public statements, his limited use of vocabulary (6,500 words for Bush versus an average of 11,000 words for other presidents), his lack of scholarly achievements other than a basic MBA, and an absence of any body of work which could be studied on an intellectual basis. The complete report documents the methods and procedures used to arrive at these ratings, including depth of sentence structure and voice stress confidence analysis.

"All the Presidents prior to George W. Bush had a least one book under their belt, and most had written several white papers during their education or early careers. Not so with President Bush," Dr. Lovenstein said. "He has no published works or writings, so in many ways that made it more difficult to arrive at an assessment. We had to rely more heavily on transcripts of his unscripted public speaking."

The Lovenstein Institute of Scranton Pennsylvania think tank includes high caliber historians, psychiatrists, sociologists, scientists in human behavior, and psychologists. Among their ranks are Dr. Werner R. Lovenstein, world-renowned sociologist, and Professor Patricia F. Dilliams, a world-respected psychiatrist.

This study was commissioned on February 13, 2001 and released on July 9, 2001 to subscribing member universities and organizations within the education community

 

[jimnyc]

Are you this gullible that you fall for an internet hoax?

Clinton with an IQ of 182? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Tell us more about this lovenstein institute.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by shergald
So let's discuss it. Can we really entrust the country another four years to this level of intellect?

In a report published Monday, the Lovenstein Institute of Scranton, Pennsylvania detailed its findings of a four month study of the intelligence quotient of President George W. Bush. Since 1973, the Lovenstein Institute has published its research to the education community on each new president, which includes the famous "IQ" report among others.

According to statements in the report, there have been twelve presidents over the past 50 years, from F. D. Roosevelt to G. W. Bush who were all rated based on scholarly achievements, writings that they alone produced without aid of staff, their ability to speak with clarity, and several other psychological factors which were then scored in the Swanson/Crain system of intelligence ranking.

The study determined the following IQs of each president as accurate to within five percentage points:
147 Franklin D. Roosevelt (D)
132 Harry Truman (D)
122 Dwight D. Eisenhower (r)
174 John F. Kennedy (D)
126 Lyndon B. Johnson (D)
155 Richard M. Nixon (r)
121 Gerald Ford (r)
175 James E. Carter (D)
105 Ronald Reagan (r)
098 George HW Bush (r)
182 William J. Clinton (D)
091 George W. Bush (r)

The six Republican presidents of the past 50 years had an average IQ of 115.5, with President Nixon having the highest IQ, at 155. President G. W. Bush was rated the lowest of all the Republicans with an IQ of 91. The six Democrat presidents had IQs with an average of 156, with President Clinton having the highest IQ, at 182. President Lyndon B. Johnson was rated the lowest of all the Democrats with an IQ of 126.

No president other than Carter (D) has released his actual IQ, 176. Among comments made concerning the specific testing of President GW Bush, his low ratings were due to his apparent difficulty to command the English language in public statements, his limited use of vocabulary (6,500 words for Bush versus an average of 11,000 words for other presidents), his lack of scholarly achievements other than a basic MBA, and an absence of any body of work which could be studied on an intellectual basis. The complete report documents the methods and procedures used to arrive at these ratings, including depth of sentence structure and voice stress confidence analysis.

"All the Presidents prior to George W. Bush had a least one book under their belt, and most had written several white papers during their education or early careers. Not so with President Bush," Dr. Lovenstein said. "He has no published works or writings, so in many ways that made it more difficult to arrive at an assessment. We had to rely more heavily on transcripts of his unscripted public speaking."

The Lovenstein Institute of Scranton Pennsylvania think tank includes high caliber historians, psychiatrists, sociologists, scientists in human behavior, and psychologists. Among their ranks are Dr. Werner R. Lovenstein, world-renowned sociologist, and Professor Patricia F. Dilliams, a world-respected psychiatrist.

This study was commissioned on February 13, 2001 and released on July 9, 2001 to subscribing member universities and organizations within the education community

Here's my rebuttal:

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/presiq.htm

 

[_dmp_]

edit...


Jimmy...quick on the draw...

 

[_dmp_]

Fitting rebuttal

The Hollywood group is at it again. Holding anti-war rallies, screaming about the Bush Administration, running ads in major newspapers, defaming the President and his Cabinet every chance they get, to anyone and everyone who will listen. They publicly defile them and call them names like "stupid," "morons," and "idiots." Jessica Lange went so far as to tell a crowd in Spain that she hates President Bush and is embarrassed to be an American.

So, just how ignorant are these people who are running the country? Let's look at the biographies of these "stupid," "ignorant," "moronic" leaders, and then at the celebrities who are castigating them:

President George W. Bush: Received a Bachelors Degree from Yale University and an MBA from Harvard Business School. He served as an F-102 pilot for the Texas Air National Guard. He began his career in the oil and gas business in Midland in 1975 and worked in the energy industry until 1986. He was elected Governor on November 8, 1994, with 53.5 percent of the vote. In a historic reelection victory, he became the first Texas Governor to be elected to consecutive four-year terms on November 3, 1998, winning 68.6 percent of the vote. In 1998 Governor Bush won 49 percent of the Hispanic vote, 27 percent of the African-American vote, 27 percent of Democrats and 65 percent of women. He won more Texas counties, 240 of 254, than any modern Republican other that Richard Nixon in 1972 and is the first Republican gubernatorial candidate to win the heavily Hispanic and Democratic border counties of El Paso, Cameron and Hidalgo.

Vice President Dick Cheney earned a B.A. in 1965 and a M.A. in 1966, both in political science. Two years later, he won an American Political Science Association congressional fellowship. One of Vice President Cheney's primary duties is to share with individuals, members of Congress and foreign leaders, President Bush's vision to strengthen our economy, secure our homeland and win the War on Terrorism. In his official role as President of the Senate, Vice President Cheney regularly goes to Capitol Hill to meet with Senators and members of the House of Representatives to work on the Administration's legislative goals. In his travels as Vice President, he has seen first hand the great demands the war on terrorism is placing on the men and women of our military, and he is proud of the tremendous job they are doing for the United States of America.

Secretary of State Colin Powell was educated in the New York City public schools, graduating from the City College of New York (CCNY), where he earned a Bachelor's Degree in geology. He also participated in ROTC at CCNY and received a commission as an Army second lieutenant upon graduation in June 1958. His further academic achievements include a Master of Business Administration Degree from George Washington University. Secretary Powell is the recipient of numerous U.S. and foreign military awards and decorations. Secretary Powell's civilian awards include two Presidential Medals of Freedom, the President's Citizens Medal, the Congressional Gold Medal, the Secretary of State Distinguished Service Medal, and the Secretary of Energy Distinguished Service Medal. Several schools and other institutions have been named in his honor and he holds honorary degrees from universities and colleges across the country.

Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld: attended Princeton University on Scholarship (AB, 1954) and served in the U.S. Navy (1954-57) as a Naval aviator; Congressional Assistant to Rep. Robert Griffin (R-MI), 1957-59; U.S. Representative, Illinois, 1962-69; Assistant to the President, Director of the Office of Economic Opportunity, Director of the Cost of Living Council, 1969-74; U.S. Ambassador to NATO, 1973-74; head of Presidential Transition Team, 1974; Assistant to the President, Director of White House Office of Operations, White House Chief of Staff, 1974-77; Secretary of Defense, 1975-77.

Secretary of Homeland Security Tom Ridge was raised in a working class family in veterans' public housing in Erie. He earned a scholarship to Harvard, graduating with honors in 1967. After his first year at The Dickinson School of Law, he was drafted into the U.S. Army, where he served as an infantry staff sergeant in Vietnam, earning the Bronze Star for Valor. After returning to Pennsylvania, he earned his Law Degree and was in private practice before becoming Assistant District Attorney in Erie County. He was elected to Congress in 1982. He was the first enlisted Vietnam combat veteran elected to the U.S. House, and was overwhelmingly reelected six times.

National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice earned her Bachelor's Degree in Political Science, Cum Laude and Phi Beta Kappa, from the University of Denver in 1974; her Master's from the University of Notre Dame in 1975; and her Ph.D. from the Graduate School of International Studies at the University of Denver in 1981. (Note: Rice enrolled at the University of Denver at the age of 15, graduating at 19 with a Bachelor's Degree in Political Science (Cum Laude). She earned a Master's Degree at the University of Notre Dame and a Doctorate from the University of Denver's Graduate School of International Studies. Both of her advanced degrees are also in Political Science.)

She is a Fellow of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences and has been awarded Honorary Doctorates from Morehouse College in 1991, the University of Alabama in 1994, and the University of Notre Dame in 1995. At Stanford, she has been a member of the Center for International Security and Arms Control, a Senior Fellow of the Institute for International Studies, and a Fellow (by courtesy) of the Hoover Institution. Her books include Germany Unified and Europe Transformed (1995) with Philip Zelikow, The Gorbachev Era (1986) with Alexander Dallin, and Uncertain Allegiance: The Soviet Union and the Czechoslovak Army (1984). She also has written numerous articles on Soviet and East European foreign and defense policy, and has addressed audiences in settings ranging from the U.S. Ambassador's Residence in Moscow to the Commonwealth Club to the 1992 and 2000 Republican National Conventions. From 1989 through March 1991, the period of German reunification and the final days of the Soviet Union, she served in the Bush Administration as Director, and then Senior Director, of Soviet and East European Affairs in the National Security Council, and a Special Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs. In 1986, while an international affairs fellow of the Council on Foreign Relations, she served as Special Assistant to the Director of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. In 1997, she served on the Federal Advisory Committee on Gender -- Integrated Training in the Military. She was a member of the boards of directors for the Chevron Corporation, the Charles Schwab Corporation, the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation, the University of Notre Dame, the International Advisory Council of J.P. Morgan and the San Francisco Symphony Board of Governors. She was a Founding Board member of the Center for a New Generation, an educational support fund for schools in East Palo Alto and East Menlo Park, California and was Vice President of the Boys and Girls Club of the Peninsula. In addition, her past board service has encompassed such organizations as Transamerica Corporation, Hewlett Packard, the Carnegie Corporation, Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, The Rand Corporation, the National Council for Soviet and East European Studies, the Mid-Peninsula Urban Coalition and KQED, public broadcasting for San Francisco. Born November 14, 1954 in Birmingham, Alabama, she earned her bachelor's degree in political science, cum laude and Phi Beta Kappa, from the University of Denver in 1974; her Master's from the University of Notre Dame in 1975; and her Ph.D. from the Graduate School of International Studies at the University of Denver in 1981. She is a Fellow of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences and has been awarded Honorary Doctorates from Morehouse College in 1991, the University of Alabama in 1994, and the University of Notre Dame in 1995. She resides in Washington, D.C.

So who are these celebrities? What is their education? What is their experience in affairs of State or in National Security? While I will defend to the death their right to express their opinions, I think that if they are going to call into question the intelligence of our leaders, we should also have all the facts on their educations and background:

Barbra Streisand: Completed high school
Career: Singing and acting

Cher: Dropped out of school in 9th grade.
Career: Singing and acting

Martin Sheen: Flunked exam to enter University of Dayton.
Career: Acting

Jessica Lange: Dropped out college mid-freshman year.
Career: Acting

Alec Baldwin: Dropped out of George Washington U. after scandal
Career: Acting

Julia Roberts: Completed high school
Career: Acting

Sean Penn: Completed High school
Career: Acting

Susan Sarandon: Degree in Drama from Catholic University of America in Washington, D.C.
Career: Acting

Ed Asner: Completed High school
Career: Acting

George Clooney: Dropped out of University of Kentucky
Career: Acting

Michael Moore: Dropped out first year University of Michigan.
Career: Movie Director

Sarah Jessica Parker: Completed High School
Career: Acting

Jennifer Anniston: Completed High School
Career: Acting

Mike Farrell: Completed High school
Career: Acting

Janeane Garofelo: Dropped out of College.
Career: Stand up comedienne

Larry Hagman: Attended Bard College for one year.
Career: Acting

While comparing the education and experience of these two groups, we should also remember that President Bush and his cabinet are briefed daily, even hourly, on the War on Terror and threats to our security. They are privy to information gathered around the world concerning the Middle East, the threats to America, the intentions of terrorists and terrorist-supporting governments. They are in constant communication with the CIA, the FBI, Interpol, NATO, The United Nations, our own military, and that of our allies around the world. We cannot simply believe that we have full knowledge of the threats because we watch CNN!! We cannot believe that we are in any way as informed as our leaders.

These celebrities have no intelligence-gathering agents, no fact-finding groups, no insight into the minds of those who would destroy our country. They only have a deep seated hatred for all things Republican. By nature, and no one knows quite why, the Hollywood elitists detest Conservative views and anything that supports or uplifts the United States of America. The silence was deafening from the Left when Bill Clinton bombed a pharmaceutical factory outside of Khartoum, or when he attacked the Bosnian Serbs in 1995 and 1999. He bombed Serbia itself to get Slobodan Milosevic out of Kosovo, and not a single peace rally was held. When our Rangers were ambushed in Somalia and 18 young American lives were lost, not a peep was heard from Hollywood. Yet now, after our nation has been attacked on its own soil, after 3,000 Americans were killed by freedom-hating terrorists while going about their routine lives, they want to hold rallies against the war. Why the change? Because an honest, God-fearing Republican sits in the White House.

Another irony is that in 1987, when Ronald Reagan was in office, the Hollywood group aligned themselves with disarmament groups like SANE, FREEZE and PEACE ACTION, urging our own government to disarm and freeze the manufacturing of any further nuclear weapons, in order to promote world peace. It is curious that now, even after we have heard all the evidence that Saddam Hussein has chemical, biological and is very close to obtaining nuclear weapons, their is no cry from this group for HIM to disarm. They believe we should leave him alone in his quest for these weapons of mass destruction, even though it is certain that these deadly weapons will eventually be used against us in our own cities.

So why the hype out of Hollywood? Could these celebrities believe that since they draw such astronomical salaries, they are entitled to also determine the course of our Nation? That they can make viable decisions concerning war and peace? Did Michael Moore have the backing of the Nation when he recently thanked France, on our behalf, for being a "good enough friend to tell us we were wrong"? I know for certain he was not speaking for me. Does Sean Penn fancy himself a Diplomat, in going to Iraq when we are just weeks away from war? Does he believe that his High School Diploma gives him the knowledge (and the right) to go to a country that is controlled by a maniacal dictator, and speak on behalf of the American people? Or is it the fact that he pulls in more money per year than the average American worker will see in a lifetime? Does his bank account give him clout?

The ultimate irony is that many of these celebrities have made a shambles of their own lives, with drug abuse, alcoholism, numerous marriages and divorces, scrapes with the law, publicized temper tantrums, etc. How dare they pretend to know what is best for an entire nation! What is even more bizarre is how many people in this country will listen and accept their views, simply because they liked them in a certain movie, or have fond memories of an old television sitcom!

It is time for us, as citizens of the United States, to educate ourselves about the world around us. If future generations are going to enjoy the freedoms that our forefathers bequeathed us, if they are ever to know peace in their own country and their world, to live without fear of terrorism striking in their own cities, we must assure that this nation remains strong. We must make certain that those who would destroy us are made aware of the severe consequences that will befall them.

Yes, it is a wonderful dream to sit down with dictators and terrorists and join hands, singing Cumbaya and talking of world peace. But it is not real. We did not stop Adolf Hitler from taking over the entire continent of Europe by simply talking to him. We sent our best and brightest, with the strength and determination that this Country is known for, and defeated the Nazi regime. President John F. Kennedy did not stop the Soviet ships from unloading their nuclear missiles in Cuba in 1962 with mere words. He stopped them with action, and threat of immediate war if the ships did not turn around. We did not end the Cold War with conferences. It ended with the strong belief of President Ronald Reagan... PEACE through STRENGTH.

 

[MtnBiker]

Oh that's too funny. People are still clinging on to that piece. And they want it so bad to be true.

 

[shergald]

Whereas Bush probably has the lowest intelligence of any president in the past 50 years, this article is apparently not true and the thread is withdrawn.

Origins: No,
this isn't a real news report, nor does it describe a real study. There isn't a "Lovenstein Institute" in Scranton, Pennsylvania (or anywhere else in the USA), nor do any of the people quoted in the story exist, because this is just another spoof that was taken too seriously.

The piece is simply a political jibe, made obvious by its ranking all the Democratic presidents of the last several decades as having high (even exceptionally high) IQs — note that Bill Clinton's IQ is listed as being exactly twice George W. Bush's — while ranking all the Republican presidents from the same time frame as average to moderate in intelligence, with the current president and his father assigned below-average figures placing them at the very bottom of the list. (President Nixon is the sole exception, presumably because his reputation is still so tarnished that not even a high IQ measurement can yet redeem him in the court of public opinion.)

[Some noticeable errors: Although the study includes Franklin D. Roosevelt, who died in office in 1945, the report is described as covering presidents in office "over the past 50 years." Also not true is the claim that "all the Presidents prior to George W. Bush had a least one book under their belt" — some of them authored no books until after becoming president, and George W. Bush did have a book to his credit before being elected president, 1999's A Charge to Keep. Plus, if there's a "Swanson/Crain" system for ranking intelligence, nobody else seems to have heard of it.]

In any case, IQ is a dodgy enough concept even when measured by tests designed for the purpose — trying to guess not just relative rankings but specific IQ scores based solely on writings and speeches is bound to be error-prone. Based on President George H. Bush's extemporaneous speech-making, for example, he couldn't "speak with clarity" to save his life, but he was clearly far more intelligent than the insultingly low IQ assigned to him above. And a recent article reports President Kennedy's IQ as 119, far below the genius-level 174 ascribed to him here.

Update: As obvious as this joke was, at least two publications were taken in by it: The [London] Guardian and the New Zealand Southland Times. Both ran the "Presidential I.Q." tale as a factual item (on 19 July and 7 August 2001 respectively). The Associated Press publicized The Guardian's error on 12 August, moving The Guardian to post a retraction on 14 August, and U.S. News & World Report clearly reported the I.Q. item as a hoax on 20 August, 2001.

Gary Trudeau's 26 August 2001 Doonesbury comic strip features an invisible George W. Bush being told about his ranking on the presidential I.Q. ladder by an underling. (This strip appeared on the Doonesbury web site on 2 September 2001).

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by shergald
Whereas Bush is probably has the lowest intelligence of any preesident in the past 50 years, this article is apparently not true and the thread is withdrawn.

Can you please cite evidence of his IQ test.

 

[MtnBiker]

You know this reminds me of another post claiming Bush was a convicted felon. Why is it people will make such false claims, wishing and dreaming them to be true without checking them out first? It add little credence to an overall argument to use such absurdites.

 

[Zhukov]

Can we perhaps create a Liberal Orientation page, so we don't have a new lefty showing up every week to regurgitate the same lovenstein-institute-bush-resume-"imminent"-threat BS? Just a simple listing of all the things that there are already more than 15 threads on.

It's really tiresome.

That was a great article tho dmp. Where did you find that?

 

[MtnBiker]

Originally posted by Zhukov
Can we perhaps create a Liberal Orientation page, so we don't have a new lefty showing up every week to regurgitate the same lovenstein-institute-bush-resume-"imminent"-threat BS? Just a simple listing of all the things that there are already more than 15 threads on.

I was thinking the same thing. Good idea.

 

[shergald]

Maybe Bush will eventually resolve the question and take an IQ test. But for now, all we have are reports of experience. Remember this one....

Former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill's description of President Bush's cabinet meeting demeanor as like that of "a blind man in a room full of deaf people" was a shocking revelation, even to those of us who have questioned Bush's intellect from the outset.

Peter Magowan, owner of the San Francisco Giants, offered similar sentiments about Mr. Bush during his tenure as part owner of the Texas Rangers. Mr. Magowan reported that during baseball's winters meetings, Bush usually had his feet up on the table and his nose buried in a newspaper, completely disengaged from the discussion.

(What I find equally surprising about this is that he was actually reading a newspaper, something he admits to not currently doing. He has "his people" tell him the news of the nation and world - or at least their version).

Unfortunately, like the Oscar worthy movie that debuts too early in the year for consideration, whatever impact the O'Neill charge now carries will eventually fade from memory, and likely have little effect on Bush's re-election bid. But, hopefully, his pandering to special interests, the details of this mismanaged war, costing hundreds of lives and billions of dollars, coupled with the many incomprehensible decisions made concerning the environment, health care, women's rights, energy, education, foreign policy and the economy, will not fade from memory. I'm optimistic that these issues will be raised over and over again in the coming months, and that they will enable the American people to see the damage this administration has done, and continues to do, to our country and our way of life.

The horror of 9/11 and the aftermath became a springboard for a floundering, ineffective Bush presidency. Without that tragedy, this regime is seen as mediocre at best, and exits after one term, no question. The irony is that this benefactor was actually responsible for the intelligence failures that allowed the attack in the first place. That aside, we cannot continue to allow Bush to use his response to those catastrophic events as a cover up for a dangerously misinformed, self-serving administration.

 

[MtnBiker]

You cite an internet hoax on presidential IQ and then try to connect some sort of relevance to this:

Unfortunately, like the Oscar worthy movie that debuts too early in the year for consideration, whatever impact the O'Neill charge now carries will eventually fade from memory, and likely have little effect on Bush's re-election bid. But, hopefully, his pandering to special interests, the details of this mismanaged war, costing hundreds of lives and billions of dollars, coupled with the many incomprehensible decisions made concerning the environment, health care, women's rights, energy, education, foreign policy and the economy, will not fade from memory. I'm optimistic that these issues will be raised over and over again in the coming months, and that they will enable the American people to see the damage this administration has done, and continues to do, to our country and our way of life.

Amazing.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by shergald
Maybe Bush will eventually resolve the question and take an IQ test.

So you're saying he is the least intelligent president in the past 50 years based on hearsay? Do you have any other proof besides that to backup your claims?

 

[_dmp_]

Originally posted by Zhukov
That was a great article tho dmp. Where did you find that?

when I searched Snopes for the President IQ or Bush IQ, it was the 2nd story.

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by jimnyc
Are you this gullible that you fall for an internet hoax?

Clinton with an IQ of 182? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Tell us more about this lovenstein institute.

I'm inclined to believe tha Bubba's cock size might have been 182 but he had to have been the most common sensically dumb sonofabitch hillbilly to ever run anything other than a whisky still.

Shergald produce a copy or record of your old Republican voters registration has i'll lay money that you were never a Republican with some of the crap you actually swallow and believe.

 

[Zhukov]

Mr. Magowan reported that during baseball's winters meetings, Bush usually had his feet up on the table and his nose buried in a newspaper, completely disengaged from the discussion.

How refreshing to see a man who not only doesn't insist on being the center of attention (like a man-child who's parents didn't show him enough love as a boy) and who knows how to shut up once in while because it isn't always neccessary to talk, but sometimes better to listen. I know I can read and listen to people at the same time. Is that really so hard?

How much of importance can be said at a winter baseball meeting at any rate?

Maybe he was reading the sports page.

And finally, I don't even believe the story. I bet it happened once if at all. Feet on the desk? Come on.

 

[Palestinian Jew]

Gotta love Snopes!

But I think he could base the idea of Bush having a low IQ on the fact that he gets a lot of simple statements wrong("put food on your family", "misunderestimate", use of "gooder" instead of better), his admitted problem of changing topics midsentence, and his slurring of words in nonimportant speeches. Then there was him during his presidential run which made everyone except the diehard supporters believe he was an idiot. And he sort of looks like a monkey!

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Palestinian Jew
Gotta love Snopes!

But I think he could base the idea of Bush having a low IQ on the fact that he gets a lot of simple statements wrong("put food on your family", "misunderestimate", use of "gooder" instead of better), his admitted problem of changing topics midsentence, and his slurring of words in nonimportant speeches. Then there was him during his presidential run which made everyone except the diehard supporters believe he was an idiot. And he sort of looks like a monkey!

I would chalk most of that up to just not being a great speaker. I don't think poor speaking ability equates to a low IQ.

I love it when people post them side by side monkey pictures, I love monkeys! I don't think that's such a bad feature. :

Check out this thread:
http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=3996

 

[Palestinian Jew]

Yeah, I chalk it up to being a terrible speaker also, but I can see why people think the guy is dumb. He has come a long way from the man he was in 2000 when every talk show and SNL skit showed him as a bumbling fool.

The monkey pictures are funny, but not nearly good as the pictures i saw on Conan comparing rosie to dean.