Bullycide

[Sunshine]

At the risk of sounding like a total asshole to the sensitive folk here...........

WTF?
A prosecutor is investigating a suicide?
Tragic as it may be, the teen killed himself. It wasn't a murder.
As a society, have we now become so pansyfied that we now have to try and blame suicide on somebody else and then prosecute? Really?

Way back when I was a teen (and even before that), some kids were bullied, some were the bullies. Nobody committed suicide when I was a kid because some jerk bullied them.
Was it right that some kids were bullied? No, it wasn't. But back then, they pulled up their panties and dealt with it. Back then, bullies would beat you up, steal your lunch money, intimidate you, all face to face. Nowadays, cyber bullying is considered a threat by the pussies our society has become. Seriously? Threatened by somebody over the internet? How fucking cowardly does one have to be to get bullied over the internet? Sometimes I'm amazed that the USA can still produce a standing army with all the PC pansy-ass cowards I read about, and those that would support said PC pansy-ass cowards.

Chanel, I ranted all over your thread.
I bet you'll pull up your big girl panties and not be upset though.

There have been efforts in the past to either prosecute or apply civil liability to suicides. As of yet, there has been no case of suicide which the SCOTUS has held to be the responsibility of anyone other than the person who suicided. Even assisted suicides in which the person himself pulls the plug, flips the switch, whatever have been found the sole responsilibity of the person. The suicide itself is known as the 'intervening' cause.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intervening_cause

But what you have to remember is that there are legions out there like our own little TM who want to hold others responsible for the poor judgment of themselves and others like themselves. I think the time is coming when someone will find an angle to hold someone else accountable in a suicide death. I don't agree with it, but you know how it goes with TM and her minions. They always want someone else to pay the price.

When it comes to a teen suicide, there are those who would have you believe that it is always predictable. Teen suicide can, in some instances, have warning signs. But teens, as part of their normal life span issues, are notoriously impulsive. A teen can suicide at the drop of a hat. I would hazard a guess that this wasn't the only teen in the school who was bullied. Likely there are others just like him in every class there. But he is the only one who suicided.

 

[syrenn]

There's also many other ways to lessen it. Stop it? It's a human characteristic. Civilization simply attempts to moderate it.

You could argue its the parents that are to blame for their children being cyber bullied. Who provides them the medium for he abuse?

No, you could argue that. I'm not arguing it.

Who provides the medium?

Humanity of course.

So bullying is nothing new... why make it into something new?


The medium for cyber bullying...is the cyber part of it. The parents are the ones who provide the phones and computers. Kids dont need smart phones with access to the web or texting. A phone should be used as a leash for parents to keep in contact with their children. The parents provide the internet access and computers and do not monitor what is going on.


So..... who is responsible for the death. The bullies? the parents? .... the the hand that did the killing?

 

[syrenn]

At the risk of sounding like a total asshole to the sensitive folk here...........

WTF?
A prosecutor is investigating a suicide?
Tragic as it may be, the teen killed himself. It wasn't a murder.
As a society, have we now become so pansyfied that we now have to try and blame suicide on somebody else and then prosecute? Really?

Way back when I was a teen (and even before that), some kids were bullied, some were the bullies. Nobody committed suicide when I was a kid because some jerk bullied them.
Was it right that some kids were bullied? No, it wasn't. But back then, they pulled up their panties and dealt with it. Back then, bullies would beat you up, steal your lunch money, intimidate you, all face to face. Nowadays, cyber bullying is considered a threat by the pussies our society has become. Seriously? Threatened by somebody over the internet? How fucking cowardly does one have to be to get bullied over the internet? Sometimes I'm amazed that the USA can still produce a standing army with all the PC pansy-ass cowards I read about, and those that would support said PC pansy-ass cowards.

Chanel, I ranted all over your thread.
I bet you'll pull up your big girl panties and not be upset though.

There have been efforts in the past to either prosecute or apply civil liability to suicides. As of yet, there has been no case of suicide which the SCOTUS has held to be the responsibility of anyone other than the person who suicided. Even assisted suicides in which the person himself pulls the plug, flips the switch, whatever have been found the sole responsilibity of the person. The suicide itself is known as the 'intervening' cause.

Intervening cause - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But what you have to remember is that there are legions out there like our own little TM who want to hold others responsible for the poor judgment of themselves and others like themselves. I think the time is coming when someone will find an angle to hold someone else accountable in a suicide death. I don't agree with it, but you know how it goes with TM and her minions. They always want someone else to pay the price.

When it comes to a teen suicide, there are those who would have you believe that it is always predictable. Teen suicide can, in some instances, have warning signs. But teens, as part of their normal life span issues, are notoriously impulsive. A teen can suicide at the drop of a hat. I would hazard a guess that this wasn't the only teen in the school who was bullied. Likely there are others just like him in every class there. But he is the only one who suicided.

Lets not forget that teen suicide has also become vogue. Is THE thing to do. We have had a swarm of death by train here as something popular to do.

 

[Ropey]

At the risk of sounding like a total asshole to the sensitive folk here...........

WTF?
A prosecutor is investigating a suicide?
Tragic as it may be, the teen killed himself. It wasn't a murder.
As a society, have we now become so pansyfied that we now have to try and blame suicide on somebody else and then prosecute? Really?

Way back when I was a teen (and even before that), some kids were bullied, some were the bullies. Nobody committed suicide when I was a kid because some jerk bullied them.
Was it right that some kids were bullied? No, it wasn't. But back then, they pulled up their panties and dealt with it. Back then, bullies would beat you up, steal your lunch money, intimidate you, all face to face. Nowadays, cyber bullying is considered a threat by the pussies our society has become. Seriously? Threatened by somebody over the internet? How fucking cowardly does one have to be to get bullied over the internet? Sometimes I'm amazed that the USA can still produce a standing army with all the PC pansy-ass cowards I read about, and those that would support said PC pansy-ass cowards.

Chanel, I ranted all over your thread.
I bet you'll pull up your big girl panties and not be upset though.

There have been efforts in the past to either prosecute or apply civil liability to suicides. As of yet, there has been no case of suicide which the SCOTUS has held to be the responsibility of anyone other than the person who suicided. Even assisted suicides in which the person himself pulls the plug, flips the switch, whatever have been found the sole responsilibity of the person. The suicide itself is known as the 'intervening' cause.

Intervening cause - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But what you have to remember is that there are legions out there like our own little TM who want to hold others responsible for the poor judgment of themselves and others like themselves. I think the time is coming when someone will find an angle to hold someone else accountable in a suicide death. I don't agree with it, but you know how it goes with TM and her minions. They always want someone else to pay the price.

When it comes to a teen suicide, there are those who would have you believe that it is always predictable. Teen suicide can, in some instances, have warning signs. But teens, as part of their normal life span issues, are notoriously impulsive. A teen can suicide at the drop of a hat. I would hazard a guess that this wasn't the only teen in the school who was bullied. Likely there are others just like him in every class there. But he is the only one who suicided.

And the other side is that modern humanity attempts to moderate the new forms of bullying as they pop up.

 

[Sunshine]

You could argue its the parents that are to blame for their children being cyber bullied. Who provides them the medium for he abuse?

No, you could argue that. I'm not arguing it.

Who provides the medium?

Humanity of course.

So bullying is nothing new... why make it into something new?


The medium for cyber bullying...is the cyber part of it. The parents are the ones who provide the phones and computers. Kids dont need smart phones with access to the web or texting. A phone should be used as a leash for parents to keep in contact with their children. The parents provide the internet access and computers and do not monitor what is going on.


So..... who is responsible for the death. The bullies? the parents? .... the the hand that did the killing?

As matters stand now, the SCOTUS has consistently held that the person who killed himself is responsible for the death.

 

[Ropey]

You could argue its the parents that are to blame for their children being cyber bullied. Who provides them the medium for he abuse?

No, you could argue that. I'm not arguing it.

Who provides the medium?

Humanity of course.

So bullying is nothing new... why make it into something new?

The medium for cyber bullying...is the cyber part of it. The parents are the ones who provide the phones and computers. Kids dont need smart phones with access to the web or texting. A phone should be used as a leash for parents to keep in contact with their children. The parents provide the internet access and computers and do not monitor what is going on.

So..... who is responsible for the death. The bullies? the parents? .... the the hand that did the killing?

New medium formats require new addressing. These formats can and do change as humanity changes.

These changing forms are then addressed by the very nature of what happens on those new mediums.

Who is responsible for death?

All cases are individual Syrenn.

 

[Sunshine]

At the risk of sounding like a total asshole to the sensitive folk here...........

WTF?
A prosecutor is investigating a suicide?
Tragic as it may be, the teen killed himself. It wasn't a murder.
As a society, have we now become so pansyfied that we now have to try and blame suicide on somebody else and then prosecute? Really?

Way back when I was a teen (and even before that), some kids were bullied, some were the bullies. Nobody committed suicide when I was a kid because some jerk bullied them.
Was it right that some kids were bullied? No, it wasn't. But back then, they pulled up their panties and dealt with it. Back then, bullies would beat you up, steal your lunch money, intimidate you, all face to face. Nowadays, cyber bullying is considered a threat by the pussies our society has become. Seriously? Threatened by somebody over the internet? How fucking cowardly does one have to be to get bullied over the internet? Sometimes I'm amazed that the USA can still produce a standing army with all the PC pansy-ass cowards I read about, and those that would support said PC pansy-ass cowards.

Chanel, I ranted all over your thread.
I bet you'll pull up your big girl panties and not be upset though.

There have been efforts in the past to either prosecute or apply civil liability to suicides. As of yet, there has been no case of suicide which the SCOTUS has held to be the responsibility of anyone other than the person who suicided. Even assisted suicides in which the person himself pulls the plug, flips the switch, whatever have been found the sole responsilibity of the person. The suicide itself is known as the 'intervening' cause.

Intervening cause - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But what you have to remember is that there are legions out there like our own little TM who want to hold others responsible for the poor judgment of themselves and others like themselves. I think the time is coming when someone will find an angle to hold someone else accountable in a suicide death. I don't agree with it, but you know how it goes with TM and her minions. They always want someone else to pay the price.

When it comes to a teen suicide, there are those who would have you believe that it is always predictable. Teen suicide can, in some instances, have warning signs. But teens, as part of their normal life span issues, are notoriously impulsive. A teen can suicide at the drop of a hat. I would hazard a guess that this wasn't the only teen in the school who was bullied. Likely there are others just like him in every class there. But he is the only one who suicided.

And the other side is that modern humanity attempts to moderate the new forms of bullying as they pop up.

50 years ago there were those who believed that 'cowboy shows' on TV were the cause of increasing violence among teenagers. Dr. Spock said that kids need to 'express themselves.' So, kids express themselves without any repercussions whatsoever. Could it be that children in general and teens in particular actually need some limits set for them? Taking 'cowboy shows' off didn't do it. Teaching sex in the classroom didn't do it. Blaming computers and cell phones won't do it either. Only the people who are in charge of those children can reign them in. But so many of the people in charge of the children are stoned on meth, cannabis, or whatever the latest head drug is, that is not likely to happen.

I chose to be in charge in my house. Glad I did.

 

[Trajan]

At the risk of sounding like a total asshole to the sensitive folk here...........

WTF?
A prosecutor is investigating a suicide?
Tragic as it may be, the teen killed himself. It wasn't a murder.
As a society, have we now become so pansyfied that we now have to try and blame suicide on somebody else and then prosecute? Really?

Way back when I was a teen (and even before that), some kids were bullied, some were the bullies. Nobody committed suicide when I was a kid because some jerk bullied them.
Was it right that some kids were bullied? No, it wasn't. But back then, they pulled up their panties and dealt with it. Back then, bullies would beat you up, steal your lunch money, intimidate you, all face to face. Nowadays, cyber bullying is considered a threat by the pussies our society has become. Seriously? Threatened by somebody over the internet? How fucking cowardly does one have to be to get bullied over the internet? Sometimes I'm amazed that the USA can still produce a standing army with all the PC pansy-ass cowards I read about, and those that would support said PC pansy-ass cowards.

Chanel, I ranted all over your thread.
I bet you'll pull up your big girl panties and not be upset though.

I would like so see some stats. I am wondering if we are just hearing more about it than we used to, what are the stats for teen suicide say 1950-1990, then say 1990--now, in what we consider the media onslaught of 24 hour news cycles and content scavenging? -


for example-

Suicide in the age group 15-24

For the group 15-34 years of age, suicide is today one of the three leading causes of death in all countries (where mortality data is available). In the United States (2001) suicide was the third leading cause of death, among people between 15 and 24 years of age, with a rate of 9.9/100,000. The two leading causes was accidental injuries and homicide.

The suicide rate in Sweden, for this age group, is similar to the American rate. In Sweden, however, the total number of deaths by suicide has dropped significantly since the 1980s, except for this specific group.

The United States and Sweden still have a relatively low rate for this group, compared to the average number in Europe. The European suicide rate is 22.2 for boys and 4.8 for girls, or around 13 in average.
more at-
Youth and Teen Suicide Statistics


edit-this seems incredible-

http://www.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.pu.08.050187.002221

 

[Sunshine]

At the risk of sounding like a total asshole to the sensitive folk here...........

WTF?
A prosecutor is investigating a suicide?
Tragic as it may be, the teen killed himself. It wasn't a murder.
As a society, have we now become so pansyfied that we now have to try and blame suicide on somebody else and then prosecute? Really?

Way back when I was a teen (and even before that), some kids were bullied, some were the bullies. Nobody committed suicide when I was a kid because some jerk bullied them.
Was it right that some kids were bullied? No, it wasn't. But back then, they pulled up their panties and dealt with it. Back then, bullies would beat you up, steal your lunch money, intimidate you, all face to face. Nowadays, cyber bullying is considered a threat by the pussies our society has become. Seriously? Threatened by somebody over the internet? How fucking cowardly does one have to be to get bullied over the internet? Sometimes I'm amazed that the USA can still produce a standing army with all the PC pansy-ass cowards I read about, and those that would support said PC pansy-ass cowards.

Chanel, I ranted all over your thread.
I bet you'll pull up your big girl panties and not be upset though.

There have been efforts in the past to either prosecute or apply civil liability to suicides. As of yet, there has been no case of suicide which the SCOTUS has held to be the responsibility of anyone other than the person who suicided. Even assisted suicides in which the person himself pulls the plug, flips the switch, whatever have been found the sole responsilibity of the person. The suicide itself is known as the 'intervening' cause.

Intervening cause - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But what you have to remember is that there are legions out there like our own little TM who want to hold others responsible for the poor judgment of themselves and others like themselves. I think the time is coming when someone will find an angle to hold someone else accountable in a suicide death. I don't agree with it, but you know how it goes with TM and her minions. They always want someone else to pay the price.

When it comes to a teen suicide, there are those who would have you believe that it is always predictable. Teen suicide can, in some instances, have warning signs. But teens, as part of their normal life span issues, are notoriously impulsive. A teen can suicide at the drop of a hat. I would hazard a guess that this wasn't the only teen in the school who was bullied. Likely there are others just like him in every class there. But he is the only one who suicided.

Lets not forget that teen suicide has also become vogue. Is THE thing to do. We have had a swarm of death by train here as something popular to do.

When a suicide occurs it empowers others to do the same thing. Not sure the term is 'vogue.' But when we do a psych assessment it is important to find out if the person has a friend or family member who suicided. That fact alone increases the risk. Here are the 8 critical factors:

Eight factors found critical in assessing suicide risk

 

[alan1]

Hopefully it is a matter of there being information we don't have which points to bullying as a potential factor, rather than any overly aggressive search for someone to blame.

Regardless of that, it was a suicide. More information does not change the fact that it was a suicide. There is no reason for a prosecutor to investigate.

PROSECUTOR

I was thinking along these lines : The kid commits suicide. The police and/or parents investigate, in the case of police to determine if it was in fact suicide and not homicide, the parents to try and find out why the child took this path. In looking at it, perhaps there is evidence of bullying/harassment that was not known before. The prosecutor becomes involved in the investigation to see if that bullying/harassment fell into the range of illegal activity.

It depends on what the laws, regulations and/or procedures are in the place this happened, as well as whatever facts might be available to the parties involved that we are not currently privy to. I don't think the suicide itself should be considered the crime, rather the suicide could have brought crimes to light. It's just a possibility which I find more palatable then the idea that this may be some sort of witch-hunt.

yep, lets whack-a-mole, rope-a-dope and make suicide an offense that we must prosecute somebody for, because that is what the prosecutor is looking for.
Suicide is exactly that, the taking of ones own life, nobody is to blame except the dead and the killer (which happen to be one and the same).
Some want to claim others are responsible -- those fucking evil bullies made me kill myself, whaaa whaaa.

 

[Montrovant]

Regardless of that, it was a suicide. More information does not change the fact that it was a suicide. There is no reason for a prosecutor to investigate.

PROSECUTOR

I was thinking along these lines : The kid commits suicide. The police and/or parents investigate, in the case of police to determine if it was in fact suicide and not homicide, the parents to try and find out why the child took this path. In looking at it, perhaps there is evidence of bullying/harassment that was not known before. The prosecutor becomes involved in the investigation to see if that bullying/harassment fell into the range of illegal activity.

It depends on what the laws, regulations and/or procedures are in the place this happened, as well as whatever facts might be available to the parties involved that we are not currently privy to. I don't think the suicide itself should be considered the crime, rather the suicide could have brought crimes to light. It's just a possibility which I find more palatable then the idea that this may be some sort of witch-hunt.

yep, lets whack-a-mole, rope-a-dope and make suicide an offense that we must prosecute somebody for, because that is what the prosecutor is looking for.
Suicide is exactly that, the taking of ones own life, nobody is to blame except the dead and the killer (which happen to be one and the same).
Some want to claim others are responsible -- those fucking evil bullies made me kill myself, whaaa whaaa.

Responsibility for suicide doesn't have to be an all or nothing thing. Sure, ultimate responsibility lies with the person who does it; that's obvious. That doesn't mean there can't be others who contribute, either through something like excessive bullying or through parental neglect.

I don't have a problem with the idea that a person's suicide might lead to a brief investigation of their life, which in turn might lead to evidence of criminal harassment. *I'm not commenting on whether bullying/harassment laws are good.

In the case of a 15-year old, we don't consider them adults, mature enough to make their own decisions, in many cases they cannot even drive. So we have someone too immature, too irresponsible to be considered an adult, but they get 100% of the responsibility for their suicide, no matter the circumstances? I think you may be underestimating the kind of hostile environment children can create. Beyond face-to-face bullying, they can make things difficult in any online interaction, bring many more people into it in social media, etc. Again, that doesn't mean suicide should automatically entail some sort of prosecution.

Of course, for the parents involved, I imagine there is usually going to be a search for someone else to blame; who would want to admit, even to themselves, that they were a bad enough parent that their child committed suicide?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

There is nothing wrong with laws and investigations concerning suicide – particularly with regard to that of a minor – provided there is also an understanding as to the Constitutional limitations placed on the state to charge someone with ‘hate speech,’ and that indeed a crime did not occur.

 

[chanel]

I agree. But cyber-bullying is now a crime in NJ.

Dharun Ravi was not charged in the death of Tyler Clementi. But ultimately he was sentenced for it. I fear that's where this case may be headed.

According to the article, students have been asked by school officials not to talk to the press. Obviously they are protecting themselves, but I am certain they are trying to protect the students as well. This could be a witch hunt.

 

[editec]

While it would certainly be swell if bullies and social bullies were held accountable for the mental torture they put their victims though, wouldn't it?

Sadly I have my doubts that any criminal justice system has the sensitivity to study a case of bullyism and actually come up with a fair and balanced punishment for it.

Why?

Well because interaction between people in social settings is enormously complex.

Additionally what might drive one person to suicide might roll off the back of other people without harm.

Its a slippery slope trying to judge events like these.