B’Tselem report delivers blow to narrative that November attack on Gaza was ‘surgical

[Hossfly]

Actually, there are Muslim organizations engaged in humantarian relief in Syria, a couple of examples:
Life in Syria - Life for Relief and Development
Help Syrian people - Donate Now : Muslim Aid

I am glad to hear that, Coyote. Are they helping the needy Christians too, the way Americans give to relief organizations to help the needy Muslims in their impoverished countries?

It would seem so: Life/MBRC Team Distributing Food inside Haiti - Life for Relief and Development

Do you think the one that says Muslim Aid also includes Christians? By the way, do you know of any Muslim relief organization which helped the Haitians? Meanwhile, these people, whatever their religion, need a lot of help as a result of what is going on there. It's good to hear that there are people on the ground keeping track of what is going on. Let's hope this war ends pretty soon so that we don't read about more tens of thousands dead and a humongous amount wounded with more people becoming refugees..

https://now.mmedia.me/lb/en/nowsyri...d-in-syria-conflict-ngo-revised-toll-assesses

 

[Hossfly]

Jumping back in briefly, to follow-up on my earlier Quisling or Fifth Columnist remarks concerning this particular Israeli N(on) P(rofit) O(rganization)...

The long-standing conclusion that I have drawn - rightly or wrongly - from my own personal experience with with large-scale charity or social-services or advocacy NPO's here in the US - is that Advocacy or Rights organizations such as B'teselm are usually directed and managed and largely staffed by humanists.

Such NPO's are usually more devoted to humanity-at-large than they are their own country and their own countrymen.

In theory, this is actually a good thing rather than a bad thing, but, in practice, this inherent Bias (or Anti-Bias) can sour and become highly problematic, and lead to a loss of objectivity and credibility - especially if the NPO is a One-Trick-Pony with a narrow range of focus, such as focusing exclusively upon one particular conflict or topical domain.

Such organizations do not remain on their feet for long unless there is something to fuss about; without ongoing controversy and nastiness to investigate and to trumpet or protest, there is no organization.

This can have the effect of slowly-but-surely slanting the nature of the Findings of the research and investigations of such NPO's - reaching more negative or damning or one-sided conclusions than might be obtained by bringing fresh faces and fresh minds to bear upon the investigation of a particular incident.

Conversely, there is something to be said in praise of experience in such investigations and research and publication and protest - nolo contendere - no contest - and it may prove accurate to posit that an experienced investigative body will do a better job of it than would a gaggle of amateurs or outsiders or novices.

But we need to be equally aware of the Justify-Our-Existence aspect of such long-standing groups - without something to fuss about, they go out of business - and, as much as we would all like to believe that all Human Rights Organizations are entirely objective and unbiased, the sad truth is that everything is political - including the operations and the outcomes produced by such NPO's.

This is not to say that such an NPO might not be entirely accurate and truthful and appropriate and professional in their research and investigations, and this is not to say that the conclusions they've drawn or the findings they've published pertaining to Incident A or B or C might not be dead-on-target... but we need to look at each and every Case, and we need to look at each and every set of Findings, with a keen eye, and to be aware of the inherent prejudices of the NPO, as well.

It's easy to dismiss the prejudices of an NPO as minimal or nonexistent because they often criticize their own government or military or policy, but a potential bias against one's own people holds its own prospects for problems with reliability and credibility and objectivity.

I have noticed two main schools of thought on this and other boards over time... the Internationalist School which ignores borders and 'local' loyalties in favor of humanity at large, and the Nationalist School which favors one's own country and countrymen.

Most of us here seem to belong to the Nationalist School which favors our own country and countrymen over others, but a lot of us are what I would term practitioners of a 'modified Nationalist outlook' - inclined and most frequently siding with their own folks, but capable of seeing the other side of the coin and even occasionally sympathizing with the other side; a healthy state of affairs that blends God-King-and-Country with some modern Global Village and Humanitarian thinking.

And I (and I suspect, many others) would not have it any other way.

Nevertheless, folks tend to distrust people - or organizations (NPOs) - whose business is to find (or fabricate or warp or spin) material that becomes grist for the propaganda mills of the Enemy during wartime or times of Great National Danger.

In such circumstances - even when they're telling the truth - they come off looking like Traitors and Seditionists and Quislings and Fifth Columnists and Little Boys Who Cry Wolf All the Time.

It is even possible that the leadership and staff of such organizations are motivated in part by a fear of the other side eventually winning, and foolishly and spinelessly trying to hedge their bets to prove to the Victors on some future date that they were on the side of the Victors, all along, but that is - admittedly - stretching things more than a bit - even if it is worth mentioning in passing.

It is entirely possible that this Israeli NPO is upright and a straight-shooter and interested in nothing more than Truth and Justice and consequences be damned.

But it is also possible that they - themselves - are a mixed bag of motives and influences and goals - not all of them admirable nor forthright.

Nevertheless, and regardless...

When your Main Mission is to seek-out Wrongdoing by your own Defenders - and when these outcomes routinely become grist for the Enemy Propaganda Mill - you have an Image Problem.

This does not speak to "Truth", but it does speak to how the "Truth" is spun.

Or so it seems, to this observer...

Very interesting post. I enjoyed reading it and hope to see many more from you.

 

[Coyote]

I am glad to hear that, Coyote. Are they helping the needy Christians too, the way Americans give to relief organizations to help the needy Muslims in their impoverished countries?

It would seem so: Life/MBRC Team Distributing Food inside Haiti - Life for Relief and Development

Do you think the one that says Muslim Aid also includes Christians? By the way, do you know of any Muslim relief organization which helped the Haitians? Meanwhile, these people, whatever their religion, need a lot of help as a result of what is going on there. It's good to hear that there are people on the ground keeping track of what is going on. Let's hope this war ends pretty soon so that we don't read about more tens of thousands dead and a humongous amount wounded with more people becoming refugees..

https://now.mmedia.me/lb/en/nowsyri...d-in-syria-conflict-ngo-revised-toll-assesses

What is the point you are attempting to make? You wander all over the place.

The link I gave you was to an Arab (and presumably Muslim) Charity helping in Haiti.

Amongst the other examples, Islamic Relief USA - Working Together For A Better World provided humanitarian assistance in Hurricane Sandy (no indication it was only Muslims) as well as significant help to the Syrian crisis and in Africa.

What does this have to do with B'tselem?

 

[Hossfly]

It would seem so: Life/MBRC Team Distributing Food inside Haiti - Life for Relief and Development

Do you think the one that says Muslim Aid also includes Christians? By the way, do you know of any Muslim relief organization which helped the Haitians? Meanwhile, these people, whatever their religion, need a lot of help as a result of what is going on there. It's good to hear that there are people on the ground keeping track of what is going on. Let's hope this war ends pretty soon so that we don't read about more tens of thousands dead and a humongous amount wounded with more people becoming refugees..

https://now.mmedia.me/lb/en/nowsyri...d-in-syria-conflict-ngo-revised-toll-assesses

What is the point you are attempting to make? You wander all over the place.

The link I gave you was to an Arab (and presumably Muslim) Charity helping in Haiti.

Amongst the other examples, Islamic Relief USA - Working Together For A Better World provided humanitarian assistance in Hurricane Sandy (no indication it was only Muslims) as well as significant help to the Syrian crisis and in Africa.

What does this have to do with B'tselem?

Do you really have a problem with my asking about other organizations since this B'tselem is constantly being brought up as the last word even though there are those who think they are biased when it comes to reporting the truth 100% of the time? Do I constantly bring up the International Christian Embassy based in Jerusalem for all the charitable work they do for the Jews in Israel? I know you will disagree with me, but I feel that little the Muslims give because of American catastrophes are done more for publicity purposes since with the tons of money the oil-rich Arab countries rake in, it is the civilized world that seems to donate the most to help the needy Muslims in places like Somalia. I wonder how much money the Saudis gave when the floods in Pakistan occurred. I wonder how much they donated for those affected in Darfur. Here in the U.S. American newspapers were telling their readers where to send money to help these people. Do you think the rich Muslim countries did the same?

 

[Coyote]

Do you think the one that says Muslim Aid also includes Christians? By the way, do you know of any Muslim relief organization which helped the Haitians? Meanwhile, these people, whatever their religion, need a lot of help as a result of what is going on there. It's good to hear that there are people on the ground keeping track of what is going on. Let's hope this war ends pretty soon so that we don't read about more tens of thousands dead and a humongous amount wounded with more people becoming refugees..

https://now.mmedia.me/lb/en/nowsyri...d-in-syria-conflict-ngo-revised-toll-assesses

What is the point you are attempting to make? You wander all over the place.

The link I gave you was to an Arab (and presumably Muslim) Charity helping in Haiti.

Amongst the other examples, Islamic Relief USA - Working Together For A Better World provided humanitarian assistance in Hurricane Sandy (no indication it was only Muslims) as well as significant help to the Syrian crisis and in Africa.

What does this have to do with B'tselem?

Do you really have a problem with my asking about other organizations since this B'tselem is constantly being brought up as the last word even though there are those who think they are biased when it comes to reporting the truth 100% of the time?

I find B'tselem a good and respected source in regards to the Palestinian situation in the OT. As I pointed out, they are well respected and not considered a whacko group. Are they biased? Everyone is. Are they accurate? I suspect more often then not. They are not Palistinian Pallywood and they are not IDF.

Do I constantly bring up the International Christian Embassy based in Jerusalem for all the charitable work they do for the Jews in Israel?

You could. Are they an advocacy group? B'tselem is focus' on civil rights, justice, law as well as humanitarian issues. B'tselem is also not a religious charity or group.

I know you will disagree with me, but I feel that little the Muslims give because of American catastrophes are done more for publicity purposes since with the tons of money the oil-rich Arab countries rake in, it is the civilized world that seems to donate the most to help the needy Muslims in places like Somalia.

You are are right. I do disagree. As I pointed out there are certainly Muslim charities that give world wide but what I can find is only what's in English. I think it's just not covered as much in our part of the world as Christian and American charities are.

I wonder how much money the Saudis gave when the floods in Pakistan occurred. I wonder how much they donated for those affected in Darfur. Here in the U.S. American newspapers were telling their readers where to send money to help these people. Do you think the rich Muslim countries did the same?

From what I heard Islamic charities were heavily involved in the floods in Pakistan as well as when that horrible earthquake hit.

Saudi foreign assistance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In the aftermath of the 2010 Pakistan floods, Saudi Arabia has donated more than US $361.99 million for the relief operation, topping the list of all donating countries.[13] Saudi royal family donated $20 million on the first day whereas Saudi citizens donated more than $107 million were collected in the first three days.[14] Saudi Arabia started the largest air relief bridge in the history and also donated two hospital consisting of 100 beds.[15]
​

 

[Hossfly]

What is the point you are attempting to make? You wander all over the place.

The link I gave you was to an Arab (and presumably Muslim) Charity helping in Haiti.

Amongst the other examples, Islamic Relief USA - Working Together For A Better World provided humanitarian assistance in Hurricane Sandy (no indication it was only Muslims) as well as significant help to the Syrian crisis and in Africa.

What does this have to do with B'tselem?

Do you really have a problem with my asking about other organizations since this B'tselem is constantly being brought up as the last word even though there are those who think they are biased when it comes to reporting the truth 100% of the time?

I find B'tselem a good and respected source in regards to the Palestinian situation in the OT. As I pointed out, they are well respected and not considered a whacko group. Are they biased? Everyone is. Are they accurate? I suspect more often then not. They are not Palistinian Pallywood and they are not IDF.



You could. Are they an advocacy group? B'tselem is focus' on civil rights, justice, law as well as humanitarian issues. B'tselem is also not a religious charity or group.

I know you will disagree with me, but I feel that little the Muslims give because of American catastrophes are done more for publicity purposes since with the tons of money the oil-rich Arab countries rake in, it is the civilized world that seems to donate the most to help the needy Muslims in places like Somalia.

You are are right. I do disagree. As I pointed out there are certainly Muslim charities that give world wide but what I can find is only what's in English. I think it's just not covered as much in our part of the world as Christian and American charities are.

I wonder how much money the Saudis gave when the floods in Pakistan occurred. I wonder how much they donated for those affected in Darfur. Here in the U.S. American newspapers were telling their readers where to send money to help these people. Do you think the rich Muslim countries did the same?

From what I heard Islamic charities were heavily involved in the floods in Pakistan as well as when that horrible earthquake hit.

Saudi foreign assistance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In the aftermath of the 2010 Pakistan floods, Saudi Arabia has donated more than US $361.99 million for the relief operation, topping the list of all donating countries.[13] Saudi royal family donated $20 million on the first day whereas Saudi citizens donated more than $107 million were collected in the first three days.[14] Saudi Arabia started the largest air relief bridge in the history and also donated two hospital consisting of 100 beds.[15]
​

Well, I guess we will have to disagree on that B’Tselem group -- you think they are 100% A-OK and I (along with others) think they are biased in many aspects of their reporting. Hey, differences of opinion are what makes the world go round. I am happy to see that the Saudis contributed to the floods in Pakistan. I wonder where they stand helping needy Muslims and non Muslims alike all the time versus the amount that relief agencies collected from Americans for years on end to help the needy overseas. As for the International Christian Embassy in Jerusalem, I wouldn't want to bore the readers with constantly bringing them up and all the good they do. I don't believe they would be called an advocacy group, but in addition to helping many Israelis, they do report what is going on in the Middle East in their newsletter which also features some interesting opinion pieces, such as the following:
The Difficult Path to Mitigating Risk in Syria | Center for Strategic and International Studies.

 

[Coyote]

Do you really have a problem with my asking about other organizations since this B'tselem is constantly being brought up as the last word even though there are those who think they are biased when it comes to reporting the truth 100% of the time?

I find B'tselem a good and respected source in regards to the Palestinian situation in the OT. As I pointed out, they are well respected and not considered a whacko group. Are they biased? Everyone is. Are they accurate? I suspect more often then not. They are not Palistinian Pallywood and they are not IDF.



You could. Are they an advocacy group? B'tselem is focus' on civil rights, justice, law as well as humanitarian issues. B'tselem is also not a religious charity or group.



You are are right. I do disagree. As I pointed out there are certainly Muslim charities that give world wide but what I can find is only what's in English. I think it's just not covered as much in our part of the world as Christian and American charities are.

I wonder how much money the Saudis gave when the floods in Pakistan occurred. I wonder how much they donated for those affected in Darfur. Here in the U.S. American newspapers were telling their readers where to send money to help these people. Do you think the rich Muslim countries did the same?

From what I heard Islamic charities were heavily involved in the floods in Pakistan as well as when that horrible earthquake hit.

Saudi foreign assistance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In the aftermath of the 2010 Pakistan floods, Saudi Arabia has donated more than US $361.99 million for the relief operation, topping the list of all donating countries.[13] Saudi royal family donated $20 million on the first day whereas Saudi citizens donated more than $107 million were collected in the first three days.[14] Saudi Arabia started the largest air relief bridge in the history and also donated two hospital consisting of 100 beds.[15]
​

Well, I guess we will have to disagree on that B’Tselem group -- you think they are 100% A-OK and I (along with others) think they are biased in many aspects of their reporting. Hey, differences of opinion are what makes the world go round.

What I said (an opinion shared with many others) was this:
I find B'tselem a good and respected source in regards to the Palestinian situation in the OT. As I pointed out, they are well respected and not considered a whacko group. Are they biased? Everyone is. Are they accurate? I suspect more often then not. They are not Palistinian Pallywood and they are not IDF.


Not the same as "100% A OK.

I am happy to see that the Saudis contributed to the floods in Pakistan. I wonder where they stand helping needy Muslims and non Muslims alike all the time versus the amount that relief agencies collected from Americans for years on end to help the needy overseas.

Well, it's interesting. Each time I supply more information to your many queries aimed at attempting to show Muslim charities in a bad light, you move the goal posts. You don't want to believe that they might actually care about humanitarian efforts outside of religious boundaries.

As for the International Christian Embassy in Jerusalem, I wouldn't want to bore the readers with constantly bringing them up and all the good they do. I don't believe they would be called an advocacy group, but in addition to helping many Israelis, they do report what is going on in the Middle East in their newsletter which also features some interesting opinion pieces, such as the following:
The Difficult Path to Mitigating Risk in Syria | Center for Strategic and International Studies.

Good for them, they sound like a good group. No better or worse than B'tselem. Each has their own charter. Now, why is it the International Christian Embassy in Jerusalem doesn't report on or provide any assistance to Sudan? Surely they are in need there?

 

[Hossfly]

I find B'tselem a good and respected source in regards to the Palestinian situation in the OT. As I pointed out, they are well respected and not considered a whacko group. Are they biased? Everyone is. Are they accurate? I suspect more often then not. They are not Palistinian Pallywood and they are not IDF.



You could. Are they an advocacy group? B'tselem is focus' on civil rights, justice, law as well as humanitarian issues. B'tselem is also not a religious charity or group.



You are are right. I do disagree. As I pointed out there are certainly Muslim charities that give world wide but what I can find is only what's in English. I think it's just not covered as much in our part of the world as Christian and American charities are.


From what I heard Islamic charities were heavily involved in the floods in Pakistan as well as when that horrible earthquake hit.

Saudi foreign assistance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In the aftermath of the 2010 Pakistan floods, Saudi Arabia has donated more than US $361.99 million for the relief operation, topping the list of all donating countries.[13] Saudi royal family donated $20 million on the first day whereas Saudi citizens donated more than $107 million were collected in the first three days.[14] Saudi Arabia started the largest air relief bridge in the history and also donated two hospital consisting of 100 beds.[15]
​

Well, I guess we will have to disagree on that B’Tselem group -- you think they are 100% A-OK and I (along with others) think they are biased in many aspects of their reporting. Hey, differences of opinion are what makes the world go round.

What I said (an opinion shared with many others) was this:
I find B'tselem a good and respected source in regards to the Palestinian situation in the OT. As I pointed out, they are well respected and not considered a whacko group. Are they biased? Everyone is. Are they accurate? I suspect more often then not. They are not Palistinian Pallywood and they are not IDF.


Not the same as "100% A OK.

I am happy to see that the Saudis contributed to the floods in Pakistan. I wonder where they stand helping needy Muslims and non Muslims alike all the time versus the amount that relief agencies collected from Americans for years on end to help the needy overseas.

Well, it's interesting. Each time I supply more information to your many queries aimed at attempting to show Muslim charities in a bad light, you move the goal posts. You don't want to believe that they might actually care about humanitarian efforts outside of religious boundaries.

As for the International Christian Embassy in Jerusalem, I wouldn't want to bore the readers with constantly bringing them up and all the good they do. I don't believe they would be called an advocacy group, but in addition to helping many Israelis, they do report what is going on in the Middle East in their newsletter which also features some interesting opinion pieces, such as the following:
The Difficult Path to Mitigating Risk in Syria | Center for Strategic and International Studies.

Good for them, they sound like a good group. No better or worse than B'tselem. Each has their own charter. Now, why is it the International Christian Embassy in Jerusalem doesn't report on or provide any assistance to Sudan? Surely they are in need there?

You must thin that this International Christian Embassy in Jerusalem is a huge, huge group. I would never think to ask you if your
favored group, B'Tselem, is helping the poor in Sudan. As a matter of fact it is a group of Jewish women who are helping the women of Darfur living in refugee camps in Chad by going there and presenting them with solar cookers so they wouldn't have to wander from the camps to find fuel for cooking as, if they do that, they stand a good chance of being raped or kidnapped. As for the ICEJ, I think it is great of them to be putting out money to help the Jews in Israel with such things as bomb shelters. Let the oil-rich Arabs keep on stepping up to the plate to help their fellow Muslims. And let us remember that there are other Christian groups which are reporting on what is happening to their brethren in Muslim countries (many times to great danger for themselves). As for Muslim charities, hasn't this country shut down a few because they were funding the terrorists? And if you would research Muslim charities, you would find that they mainly help their own. Now, I hope you don't mind me asking you to supply some articles that say that B'Tselem is respected by those in the Israeli government. It would be nice to see some names and what group they are with in the government.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Well, I guess we will have to disagree on that B’Tselem group -- you think they are 100% A-OK and I (along with others) think they are biased in many aspects of their reporting. Hey, differences of opinion are what makes the world go round.

What I said (an opinion shared with many others) was this:
I find B'tselem a good and respected source in regards to the Palestinian situation in the OT. As I pointed out, they are well respected and not considered a whacko group. Are they biased? Everyone is. Are they accurate? I suspect more often then not. They are not Palistinian Pallywood and they are not IDF.


Not the same as "100% A OK.



Well, it's interesting. Each time I supply more information to your many queries aimed at attempting to show Muslim charities in a bad light, you move the goal posts. You don't want to believe that they might actually care about humanitarian efforts outside of religious boundaries.

As for the International Christian Embassy in Jerusalem, I wouldn't want to bore the readers with constantly bringing them up and all the good they do. I don't believe they would be called an advocacy group, but in addition to helping many Israelis, they do report what is going on in the Middle East in their newsletter which also features some interesting opinion pieces, such as the following:
The Difficult Path to Mitigating Risk in Syria | Center for Strategic and International Studies.

Good for them, they sound like a good group. No better or worse than B'tselem. Each has their own charter. Now, why is it the International Christian Embassy in Jerusalem doesn't report on or provide any assistance to Sudan? Surely they are in need there?

You must thin that this International Christian Embassy in Jerusalem is a huge, huge group. I would never think to ask you if your
favored group, B'Tselem, is helping the poor in Sudan. As a matter of fact it is a group of Jewish women who are helping the women of Darfur living in refugee camps in Chad by going there and presenting them with solar cookers so they wouldn't have to wander from the camps to find fuel for cooking as, if they do that, they stand a good chance of being raped or kidnapped. As for the ICEJ, I think it is great of them to be putting out money to help the Jews in Israel with such things as bomb shelters. Let the oil-rich Arabs keep on stepping up to the plate to help their fellow Muslims. And let us remember that there are other Christian groups which are reporting on what is happening to their brethren in Muslim countries (many times to great danger for themselves). As for Muslim charities, hasn't this country shut down a few because they were funding the terrorists? And if you would research Muslim charities, you would find that they mainly help their own. Now, I hope you don't mind me asking you to supply some articles that say that B'Tselem is respected by those in the Israeli government. It would be nice to see some names and what group they are with in the government.

BTSELEM was founded by members of the Knesset.

 

[Kondor3]

"...BTSELEM was founded by members of the Knesset."

Many national legislatures harbor Quislings of their own... ;-)

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

HRW and Amnesty both also have issued reports finding the IDF unlawfully targeted civilians in the November military operations and that deaths of civilians resulted.. It seems these NGOs that document human rights abuses in Palestine are all in agreement about this.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Press releases

14 November 2012

Israel/Gaza: All sides must step back from the brink to protect civilians

Israel’s assassination of Ahmad al-Ja’abari, the head of Hamas' military wing has placed civilians in Gaza and southern Israel at grave risk by re-igniting the armed conflict there, said Amnesty International."All sides have to step back from the brink in order to protect civilian lives,” said Ann Harrison, Deputy Director of Amnesty International’s Middle East and North Africa Programme.*The killing of al-Ja’abari in Gaza City today signalled the start of a new Israeli military operation, ”Pillar of Cloud”, which continued with further airstrikes throughout the Gaza Strip. There are also reports of civilian casualties.It comes despite an intensive international effort towards a ceasefire in the wake of civilian casualties on both sides in recent days.At least five Palestinian civilians have been killed and more than 50 injured in multiple Israeli military attacks on Gaza since 8 November.*Amnesty International has gathered evidence that suggests at least two of these attacks, on 8 and 10 November, were indiscriminate and, therefore, in violation of international humanitarian law.*“The Israeli military must not carry out further indiscriminate attacks, or attacks in densely-populated residential areas that will inevitably harm civilians,” said Harrison. . http://www.amnesty.org/en/for-media...-step-back-brink-protect-civilians-2012-11-14

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

The decision by Israel's military not to launch criminal investigations into some 65 cases of "alleged misconduct" by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) during Operation "Pillar of Defense", last year's eight-day armed conflict in the Gaza Strip, is another step which strengthens impunity, said Amnesty International, as some of the cases closed could amount to serious violations of international humanitarian law and potentially war crimes.In its update of 11 April, Israel's Military Advocate General Corps said it had decided to close inquiries into about 65 of the incidents it had examined from the conflict, which lasted from 14 to 21 November. At least 15 further incidents are still being examined. The update did not give details on most of the cases closed, making it impossible to fully assess the implications of these decisions.During the conflict, unlawful attacks were committed by both Israeli forces, which struck more than 1,500 targets throughout the Gaza Strip, and Palestinian armed groups, which fired more than 1,500 indiscriminate rockets towards Israel. At least 100 Palestinian civilians, including more than 30 children, and four Israeli civilians were killed.At least three of the cases closed by the Israeli military have been researched by Amnesty International. Two of the cases were Israeli attacks on family homes which killed and injured civilians. In the third case, the Jordanian field hospital in Gaza City was hit by an Israeli missile."These inquiries do not meet Israel's obligation to conduct independent and impartial investigations into allegations of war crimes," said Ann Harrison, Amnesty International's Deputy Director for the Middle East and. http://www.noodls.com/view/A8CBBB86A5AC09E66346A045E9D619D339601537?2986xxx1366247704

 

[Kondor3]

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

What is your question. I provided you tube videos and human rights groups reports to show November operations in Gaza are widely seen as unlawful targetings. The UN HRC also issued a report on this. So, we have reports by Btselem and HRW and Amnesty and the UN all finding Israel unlawfully targeted civilians in November operations in Gaza. I am sure there are other reports, by DCI Palestine and Palestines human rights group and there was a report by an NGO in the UK I read about earlier that was in Arabic. If I find links for other reports again, I will provide them.

 

[Kondor3]

"...What is your question..."

Whatever in the world makes you think that I have a question? I merely call bull$hit.

"...I provided you tube videos and human rights groups reports to show November operations in Gaza are widely seen as unlawful targetings..."

You provided us with videos of the results of Israel targeting Enemy Broadcast Facilities and hideouts for Hamas Bad-Guy Big-Wigs, and reports of other media folk getting killed or hurt because they were hanging with the Enemy Media or civilians because they lived too close to the targeted Bad Guys... and video-clips of self-appointed outsider do-gooders who weren't even there... expressing largely personal opinion as to the motives of military targeting crews under combat conditions.

"...The UN HRC also issued a report on this..."

And cited several drone-missle strikes as mis-targeted and questionable, as well as the usual UN complaint about destruction of infrastructure and Israel not taking as much care as they should have, to avoid civilian casualties.

In that same UN report, the UN condemned the Palestinians for indiscriminate rocket attacks upon Israeli population centers, launched from rocket sites that were embedded deep within Palestinian population centers in violation of international conventions and which were responsible for Israel targeting such population centers to stop the rocket attacks.

So what?

Dog bites man... nothing new there.

"...So, we have reports by Btselem and HRW and Amnesty and the UN all finding Israel unlawfully targeted civilians in November operations in Gaza...."

And, for all the solid proof that any of them have pertaining to Israeli motives and what was intentional vs. accidental or collateral, etc., these reports make a fine substitute for toilet tissue when you run low.

"...I am sure there are other reports, by DCI Palestine and Palestines human rights group..."

Speaking only for myself... don't bother. If it has 'Palestinian' on the label it's a non-starter anyway - unless, of course, they're hammering Hamas for lobbing rockets at Israeli towns from sites embedded in Palestinian towns, with the same intensity used to hammer the Israelis.

"...and there was a report by an NGO in the UK I read about earlier that was in Arabic. If I find links for other reports again, I will provide them."

That's nice... I'm sure they're of a similar caliber and objectivity.