"Brownie....You're Doin' A Helluva Job"

[Claudette]

Doesn't matter. They used that money for other than the repair of the levee's.

If they had repaired the levee's Katrina wouldn't have blooded everything.

THEY.
DO.
NOT.
"REPAIR".
LEVEES.

The ACofE does that.

Of course they don't. The Army Corp of Engineers does as everyone knows.

Way to 180 your own point. Thanks for admitting you were wrong all along.

I wasn't wrong and I sure didn't 180 my point. Not my fault you misconstrued what I said. I knew the Army Corp of Engineers did the repairs on the levee's.

Sorry if you thought I meant the local Govt. did repairs. They don't and never have.

 

[Pogo]

Doesn't matter. They used that money for other than the repair of the levee's.

If they had repaired the levee's Katrina wouldn't have blooded everything.

THEY.
DO.
NOT.
"REPAIR".
LEVEES.

The ACofE does that.

Of course they don't. The Army Corp of Engineers does as everyone knows.

Way to 180 your own point. Thanks for admitting you were wrong all along.

I wasn't wrong and I sure didn't 180 my point. Not my fault you misconstrued what I said. I knew the Army Corp of Engineers did the repairs on the levee's.

Sorry if you thought I meant the local Govt. did repairs. They don't and never have.

Glad you finally got that through your thick skull. It's what I've been pointing out the entire time.

 

[Claudette]

Doesn't matter. They used that money for other than the repair of the levee's.

If they had repaired the levee's Katrina wouldn't have blooded everything.

THEY.
DO.
NOT.
"REPAIR".
LEVEES.

The ACofE does that.

Of course they don't. The Army Corp of Engineers does as everyone knows.

Way to 180 your own point. Thanks for admitting you were wrong all along.

I wasn't wrong and I sure didn't 180 my point. Not my fault you misconstrued what I said. I knew the Army Corp of Engineers did the repairs on the levee's.

Sorry if you thought I meant the local Govt. did repairs. They don't and never have.

Glad you finally got that through your thick skull. It's what I've been pointing out the entire time.

Talk about a thick skull. You must have one made of granite.

I knew the AC and E repaired the levee's. Not my fault you're reading comprehension sucks.

 

[TooTall]

How long does it take to put a plan into action that's already in place? Yet he STILL failed to do so!

Who knows? How does one gather hundreds of bus drivers, many of whom had already evacuated?

There was a mandatory evacuation the day before the storm hit. Many people, including myself, and presumably the bus drivers, were under contract not to leave in the event of a hurricane, on pain of being fired. I considered staying for about 5 minutes, before I made up my mind that my job billing Medicare at Charity Hospital was not as important as saving myself and my family, and I got the hell out of town. I seriously doubt that any of those bus drivers would have felt so concerned about their school bus driving job that they would have put their family at risk and report to work. New Orleans had never had a mandatory evacuation before.

Nevertheless. The issue is not about bus drivers. The issue is about the slow emergency response from various government agencies after the storm.

Mandatory evacuations in some parts of the city were issued 2 days before the storm.

Nagin didn't have 6 days. You're lying when you infer that he did. It wasn't expected to hit New Orleans until Saturday, two days before it hit.

How long does it take to put a plan into action that's already in place? Yet he STILL failed to do so!

Who knows? How does one gather hundreds of bus drivers, many of whom had already evacuated?

There was a mandatory evacuation the day before the storm hit. Many people, including myself, and presumably the bus drivers, were under contract not to leave in the event of a hurricane, on pain of being fired. I considered staying for about 5 minutes, before I made up my mind that my job billing Medicare at Charity Hospital was not as important as saving myself and my family, and I got the hell out of town. I seriously doubt that any of those bus drivers would have felt so concerned about their school bus driving job that they would have put their family at risk and report to work. New Orleans had never had a mandatory evacuation before.

Nevertheless. The issue is not about bus drivers. The issue is about the slow emergency response from various government agencies after the storm.

Let me give you a hypothetical then...

Let's pretend that Ray Nagin had his shit together and as that storm crossed Florida and regained strength out in the Gulf...he informed the people of New Orleans that if the storm WERE to head towards the city that he would be declaring a mandatory evacuation and that transportation for that evacuation would be provided with city school buses for anyone who did not have a car as was outlined in the city's emergency evacuation plan!

Let's pretend that people got on those buses and evacuated New Orleans instead of going to the Superdome.

What happens following the storm while FEMA is trying to get it's people and supplies through the giant punch bowl filled with flood waters that New Orleans had become? Is there an issue with desperate people running out of food and water at the Superdome? Obviously no, because FEMA had stocked the Superdome with supplies before the storm...just nowhere near the amounts needed to provide for all the people that Nagin didn't get out of the city! Is the Coast Guard desperately trying to rescue people off rooftops in the lower wards? Probably a few holdouts but if Nagin had gotten the majority of those people out of the city the number of deaths from the storm would have been very few.

So what government REALLY failed the people of New Orleans?

Ok, let's follow your hypothetical to it's logical conclusion. Nagin follows the plan .... somehow get hundreds of bus drivers to abandon their own families to bus folks out of New Orleans .... they follow the plan and drive to the north side of Lake Pontchartrain to wait for the storm to pass .... the hurricane follows them to the north and thousands more die, stuck in busses which can't escape the storm's path.

All that remains the same as what actually happened is righties' screaming Nagin's head on a pike.

The bus drivers could have loaded their families onto the bus along with the folks they were supposed to take out of the city. They didn't have to abandon them nor were they expected too. Nagin is in prison where he belongs.

 

[Muhammed]

Doesn't matter. They used that money for other than the repair of the levee's.

If they had repaired the levee's Katrina wouldn't have blooded everything.

Oh and you have that selective reading syndrome.

Did you stop to think that's when the story was written, not when it all occurred. Of course you didn't.

They didn't need new levees. They needed a floodgate at the mouth of lake Pontchartrain.

And I don't agree with Bush that it was a natural disaster. I think the lawsuit that prevented the floodgate from being constructed was perpetrated by a foreign enemy. Espionage.

 

[Faun]

Before hurricane Charlie hit the Fort Myers area most of the models had it making landfall up around Tampa. Funny thing though, Faun...local officials in Southwest Florida prepared like the storm might hit us. Now why would they do that? An even better question...WHY DIDN'T RAY NAGIN?

Why didn't you answer? Remind me.... how many days before Charley hiy Florida did they evacuate Miami-Dade, Broward & Palm Beach counties?

Still no answer to the question above??

What gives?

Why would they call for an evacuation from a storm that was barely a category 1 as it approached the Atlantic Coast of Florida? Do you not grasp the difference between a category 1 storm and a category 5 storm? Anyone that knows how hurricanes generally operate down here in the Gulf understands that hurricanes can "regenerate" over the much warmer Gulf waters and become much more powerful than they were in the Atlantic before they make landfall again.

Dayam. It's like you just don't want to answer my question. Now you're answering questions I didn't ask. I didn't ask what categories those hurricanes were when evacuations were underway, which you got wrong anyway. I asked, when we're evacuations ordered for Miami-Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach counties? That question seeks a time, not a level of a hurricane.

And for the record, Katrina wasn't a cat 5 until the day before hitting NO. She was a cat 3 the day before that when evacuations were already underway.

And Charley was a cat 2 when they began evacuating areas in Florida.

Either way the local Govt. dropped the ball by not utilizing the busses and letting people stay.

They also didn't follow their own emergency evacuation measures. None of the locals were prepared for a hurricane and that's the truth. They also had no problem looting every store they could find and not just for food.

This whole idea of "mandatory" versus "voluntary" evacuation is a complete red herring. As posted innumerable times already there are ALWAYS those who ride out, regardless of whether the government holds your hand and decides for your what you should do. That's true in Louisiana, Florida, the fucking Philippines, anywhere tropical storms exist. I literally know of NOBODY who bases their decision on whether to go or not on what a local government says. You can certainly evacuate without an 'order' to do so, and you can certainly ignore that order and stay put.

This idea that the government somehow controls what people do just has no basis in the real world.

Second, New Orleanians, Louisianans, Mississippians et al certainly WERE prepared for the storm. The storm itself did little damage in the way of human lives. The flooding was the causatiohn there. And the flooding was due to the levee failure, and the levee failure was due to poor construction by the Army Corps of Engineers.

Gee, you live in an area that is below sea level protected by levees built to protect the city from storms up to a category 3 and there is a monster storm out in the Gulf headed your way...do you think that "flooding" might be a concern that would prompt you to evacuate?

As for poor construction by the Army Corps of Engineers? Millions of dollars in Federal funds were approved to be used along with matching State and local funds to repair the levee system in New Orleans but those funds were never put into use because local politicians spent local money on OTHER projects that benefited them or the people who were giving them payoffs and there were no funds left to match the Federal money.

You really aren't capable of learning, huh? The storm was projected to hit elsewhere until about 2 days before it actually hit -- at which time, evacuations began. Some mandatory, others urged. That's what cities do.

You're incapable of admitting that when the storm was projected to hit New Orleans...the mayor of that city, Ray Nagin failed to implement the evacuation plan that had been formulated for just such an emergency! Explain to me how it is that at the very moment that people without transportation most desperately needed it...Ray Nagin suddenly made the call that he couldn't use school buses because of concerns over insurance liability? How exactly does that happen? How do you tell people that if the shit hits the fan we'll get you out using school buses and then when the shit really DOES hit the fan you tell them to hitch a ride with someone from church? I mean...SERIOUSLY? Did Ray Nagin actually tell people that?

You're either lying, stupid, or both; but I posted when the path was projected to hit NO in post #522. Why you don't know that I posted that already is beyond me, but suffice it to say, it's a good indication for why you're posting most of the nonsense you post. As far as Nagin not sticking to the plan, even you seem to indicate a plan to bus thousands of people 2 hours north of NO to wait out the storm is an insanely stupid plan. Who knows why you insist on criticizing him for not sticking to a plan even you don't like.

And lastly .... answer the damn question already.... what are you so afraid of?

As Charley approached, at what point did they order evacuations in Miami-Dade, Broward & Palm Beach counties?

 

[Faun]

Who knows? How does one gather hundreds of bus drivers, many of whom had already evacuated?

There was a mandatory evacuation the day before the storm hit. Many people, including myself, and presumably the bus drivers, were under contract not to leave in the event of a hurricane, on pain of being fired. I considered staying for about 5 minutes, before I made up my mind that my job billing Medicare at Charity Hospital was not as important as saving myself and my family, and I got the hell out of town. I seriously doubt that any of those bus drivers would have felt so concerned about their school bus driving job that they would have put their family at risk and report to work. New Orleans had never had a mandatory evacuation before.

Nevertheless. The issue is not about bus drivers. The issue is about the slow emergency response from various government agencies after the storm.

Mandatory evacuations in some parts of the city were issued 2 days before the storm.

How long does it take to put a plan into action that's already in place? Yet he STILL failed to do so!

Who knows? How does one gather hundreds of bus drivers, many of whom had already evacuated?

There was a mandatory evacuation the day before the storm hit. Many people, including myself, and presumably the bus drivers, were under contract not to leave in the event of a hurricane, on pain of being fired. I considered staying for about 5 minutes, before I made up my mind that my job billing Medicare at Charity Hospital was not as important as saving myself and my family, and I got the hell out of town. I seriously doubt that any of those bus drivers would have felt so concerned about their school bus driving job that they would have put their family at risk and report to work. New Orleans had never had a mandatory evacuation before.

Nevertheless. The issue is not about bus drivers. The issue is about the slow emergency response from various government agencies after the storm.

Let me give you a hypothetical then...

Let's pretend that Ray Nagin had his shit together and as that storm crossed Florida and regained strength out in the Gulf...he informed the people of New Orleans that if the storm WERE to head towards the city that he would be declaring a mandatory evacuation and that transportation for that evacuation would be provided with city school buses for anyone who did not have a car as was outlined in the city's emergency evacuation plan!

Let's pretend that people got on those buses and evacuated New Orleans instead of going to the Superdome.

What happens following the storm while FEMA is trying to get it's people and supplies through the giant punch bowl filled with flood waters that New Orleans had become? Is there an issue with desperate people running out of food and water at the Superdome? Obviously no, because FEMA had stocked the Superdome with supplies before the storm...just nowhere near the amounts needed to provide for all the people that Nagin didn't get out of the city! Is the Coast Guard desperately trying to rescue people off rooftops in the lower wards? Probably a few holdouts but if Nagin had gotten the majority of those people out of the city the number of deaths from the storm would have been very few.

So what government REALLY failed the people of New Orleans?

Ok, let's follow your hypothetical to it's logical conclusion. Nagin follows the plan .... somehow get hundreds of bus drivers to abandon their own families to bus folks out of New Orleans .... they follow the plan and drive to the north side of Lake Pontchartrain to wait for the storm to pass .... the hurricane follows them to the north and thousands more die, stuck in busses which can't escape the storm's path.

All that remains the same as what actually happened is righties' screaming Nagin's head on a pike.

The bus drivers could have loaded their families onto the bus along with the folks they were supposed to take out of the city. They didn't have to abandon them nor were they expected too. Nagin is in prison where he belongs.

The plan Nagin didn't follow was to load up people onto busses and drive them 2 hours north of the city and have those people wait for 6 hours or more on the buses until the storm passed before heading back to the city.

Who the fuck is going to load their family onto one of those death busses?

 

[Vandalshandle]

Mandatory evacuations in some parts of the city were issued 2 days before the storm.

There was a mandatory evacuation the day before the storm hit. Many people, including myself, and presumably the bus drivers, were under contract not to leave in the event of a hurricane, on pain of being fired. I considered staying for about 5 minutes, before I made up my mind that my job billing Medicare at Charity Hospital was not as important as saving myself and my family, and I got the hell out of town. I seriously doubt that any of those bus drivers would have felt so concerned about their school bus driving job that they would have put their family at risk and report to work. New Orleans had never had a mandatory evacuation before.

Nevertheless. The issue is not about bus drivers. The issue is about the slow emergency response from various government agencies after the storm.

Let me give you a hypothetical then...

Let's pretend that Ray Nagin had his shit together and as that storm crossed Florida and regained strength out in the Gulf...he informed the people of New Orleans that if the storm WERE to head towards the city that he would be declaring a mandatory evacuation and that transportation for that evacuation would be provided with city school buses for anyone who did not have a car as was outlined in the city's emergency evacuation plan!

Let's pretend that people got on those buses and evacuated New Orleans instead of going to the Superdome.

What happens following the storm while FEMA is trying to get it's people and supplies through the giant punch bowl filled with flood waters that New Orleans had become? Is there an issue with desperate people running out of food and water at the Superdome? Obviously no, because FEMA had stocked the Superdome with supplies before the storm...just nowhere near the amounts needed to provide for all the people that Nagin didn't get out of the city! Is the Coast Guard desperately trying to rescue people off rooftops in the lower wards? Probably a few holdouts but if Nagin had gotten the majority of those people out of the city the number of deaths from the storm would have been very few.

So what government REALLY failed the people of New Orleans?

For some reason, you keep writing about Nagin's actions before the storm, in spite of the fact that has been repeatedly pointed out to you that the issue is why emergency response teams took so long to help after the storm. You really need to understand that nobody in their right mind is going to defend Nagin. What you fail to understand is that there were thousands of American citizens stranded without food and water for days. American citizens were suffering and dying, and people in D.C didn't seem to give a rat's ass. If a disaster of this nature had occurred in Washington D.C., every federal agency in the country would have been on it in a New York second. FEMA, for example, responded to a disastrous flood, with no boats. Not to put too fine a point on it, but the only help I received after Katrina was from the Red Cross and the National Guard. FEMA did absolutely nothing for me over the 6 months that it took for me to get back on my feet. I had to borrow $50,000 from my brother to start rebuilding my house, because FEMA subcontractor's did not get around to sending an adjuster out to my house for 4 months for settlement of my flood insurance claim,.

Do you not understand the entire concept of WHY people evacuate in the face of a big hurricane? First of all the storm surge and high winds can kill you. Then there is the flooding from torrential rains that can kill you. But one of the main reasons to get out of the area is that there typically isn't power, many times you don't have running water, you usually can't get gas at gas stations, few food stores are open and what are open have few things left on the shelf.

If you make the call to stay and ride out a hurricane you are told OVER and OVER and OVER again that A) nobody is going to come help you in the midst of the storm because it's too dangerous and B) that you should stockpile enough food, water, batteries and any medical supplies to get you through a MINIMUM of five days because that's how long it typically takes for FEMA to get to you after the storm is over!

So for the love of God...stop with this silly nonsense that the Federal Government somehow "failed" the people of New Orleans because they were without food and water for days! FEMA did what it always does. The problem in New Orleans was that the locals prepared so poorly for the aftermath of the storm that they were out of food and water almost immediately in places like the Superdome. Why? Because Nagin sent tens of thousands of people there instead of getting them out of the city and then totally failed to have the supplies to sustain them. The truth is...the only supplies that WERE in the Superdome were put there by FEMA!

Ok, Old, you have made yourself perfectly clear. Because they were not evacuated, then nobody owed then any help.

You know, this is exactly what the conclusion that folks down there had. The feds are not going to do anything to help us, claiming that it was our own fault for being there. Well, thanks one hellavalot, Brownie! We didn't know that bad city planning was a capital crime committed by survivors in need of food, water and shelter. Maybe if it had happened in Haiti, or some other country, the feds would have at least sent aid.

Who's fault is that you were "there" and didn't prepare for a killer storm? Michael Brown? His job was not to evacuate you before the storm...nor was his job to make sure you had sufficient food and water during and shortly after the storm. I'm sorry but it's not! That's YOUR job and the job of your local officials!

Why can't you get it through your head that the reason Katrina was such a disaster wasn't because FEMA reacted slowly...it was because you locals in New Orleans had your heads up your asses...and I'm sorry to say but acting that way in the face of a major hurricane CAN be something that kills you!

I know that my expectations are unreasonable. I expect my government to send help quickly, before I die of exposure , thirst or hunger when I am involved in a disaster in my own country.

Silly me....

 

[Pogo]

THEY.
DO.
NOT.
"REPAIR".
LEVEES.

The ACofE does that.

Of course they don't. The Army Corp of Engineers does as everyone knows.

Way to 180 your own point. Thanks for admitting you were wrong all along.

I wasn't wrong and I sure didn't 180 my point. Not my fault you misconstrued what I said. I knew the Army Corp of Engineers did the repairs on the levee's.

Sorry if you thought I meant the local Govt. did repairs. They don't and never have.

Glad you finally got that through your thick skull. It's what I've been pointing out the entire time.

Talk about a thick skull. You must have one made of granite.

I knew the AC and E repaired the levee's. Not my fault you're reading comprehension sucks.

Then why did you keep wailing over and over about how "the city didn't repair them" until I set you straight for like the seventh time??

You never did explain what it was that needed "repair" either.

 

[Claudette]

Of course they don't. The Army Corp of Engineers does as everyone knows.

Way to 180 your own point. Thanks for admitting you were wrong all along.

I wasn't wrong and I sure didn't 180 my point. Not my fault you misconstrued what I said. I knew the Army Corp of Engineers did the repairs on the levee's.

Sorry if you thought I meant the local Govt. did repairs. They don't and never have.

Glad you finally got that through your thick skull. It's what I've been pointing out the entire time.

Talk about a thick skull. You must have one made of granite.

I knew the AC and E repaired the levee's. Not my fault you're reading comprehension sucks.

Then why did you keep wailing over and over about how "the city didn't repair them" until I set you straight for like the seventh time??

You never did explain what it was that needed "repair" either.

Jesus you're a cement head.

I meant that the LA Govt. wanted to use the money somewhere else. They have to provide matching funds. They are responsible for getting the levee repairs done but The AC of E does the work.

Read the link if you want to know about the repairs that were needed.

Cement head you truly are.

 

[Redfish]

Let me give you a hypothetical then...

Let's pretend that Ray Nagin had his shit together and as that storm crossed Florida and regained strength out in the Gulf...he informed the people of New Orleans that if the storm WERE to head towards the city that he would be declaring a mandatory evacuation and that transportation for that evacuation would be provided with city school buses for anyone who did not have a car as was outlined in the city's emergency evacuation plan!

Let's pretend that people got on those buses and evacuated New Orleans instead of going to the Superdome.

What happens following the storm while FEMA is trying to get it's people and supplies through the giant punch bowl filled with flood waters that New Orleans had become? Is there an issue with desperate people running out of food and water at the Superdome? Obviously no, because FEMA had stocked the Superdome with supplies before the storm...just nowhere near the amounts needed to provide for all the people that Nagin didn't get out of the city! Is the Coast Guard desperately trying to rescue people off rooftops in the lower wards? Probably a few holdouts but if Nagin had gotten the majority of those people out of the city the number of deaths from the storm would have been very few.

So what government REALLY failed the people of New Orleans?

Ok, let's follow your hypothetical to it's logical conclusion. Nagin follows the plan .... somehow get hundreds of bus drivers to abandon their own families to bus folks out of New Orleans .... they follow the plan and drive to the north side of Lake Pontchartrain to wait for the storm to pass .... the hurricane follows them to the north and thousands more die, stuck in busses which can't escape the storm's path.

All that remains the same as what actually happened is righties' screaming Nagin's head on a pike.

LOL....why would the buses go north when that's the projected path of the storm? Most of the evacuees from New Orleans went west to Houston. You get more pathetic with each post where you try to excuse Nagin's incompetence, Faun.

And just to show that you're REALLY clueless...even going north and inexplicably staying in the path of the storm they would have been far safer than in New Orleans.

New levels of Stupid... if a storm is coming from the south, i.e. travelling north... THEN YOU GO NORTH, TO GET AHEAD OF IT.

Where else would you go? SOUTH?

What a collossal fucking IDIOT.

Further, except for a very limited 24-mile-long Causeway bridge which is by design severely limited (i.e. if you get partially across and traffic stops, you're sitting directly over a soon-to-rise Lake Ponchartrain), there is no route to the north -- you have to go west or east first.

Most evacuees from NOLA btw habitually go to Baton Rouge. I have no idea why that is other than it being not below sea level. Me, I went northwest -- both NORTH and WEST being AWAY from the path of the hurricane.

Holy SHIT that was a stupid post.

Yes, your post surely is stupid. Look at a map. I 59 goes north, I 55 goes north. Hwy 49 in Miss goes north. Those roads had contraflow implemented so that both sides were north-only during the evacuation.

the bottom line is that the loss of life is primarily due to the incompetence of Nagin and Blanco (who hated each other by the way).

No shit Sherlock, I know those roads in my sleep; I have no need of a "map". The poster was questioning why we would be going north when the storm was coming from the south.

I mean DUH.

The point remains, none of those roads go north until you get TO them, which requires first going east or west, which means I-10 or its antecedent, US 90. So one goes east or west for the larger purpose of GOING NORTH.

In my case I had planned to use I-55 but was prevented by the flow being diverted to Baton Rouge so I had to pick up 61 -- a road I've known intimately since babyhood.

Yeah OK. but the causeway goes almost due north. I 55 from NOLA to BR goes north around the west side of the lake, I 10 goes basically north through Slidell. But its silly to argue about compass headings.

 

[Oldstyle]

Ok, let's follow your hypothetical to it's logical conclusion. Nagin follows the plan .... somehow get hundreds of bus drivers to abandon their own families to bus folks out of New Orleans .... they follow the plan and drive to the north side of Lake Pontchartrain to wait for the storm to pass .... the hurricane follows them to the north and thousands more die, stuck in busses which can't escape the storm's path.

All that remains the same as what actually happened is righties' screaming Nagin's head on a pike.

LOL....why would the buses go north when that's the projected path of the storm? Most of the evacuees from New Orleans went west to Houston. You get more pathetic with each post where you try to excuse Nagin's incompetence, Faun.

And just to show that you're REALLY clueless...even going north and inexplicably staying in the path of the storm they would have been far safer than in New Orleans.

New levels of Stupid... if a storm is coming from the south, i.e. travelling north... THEN YOU GO NORTH, TO GET AHEAD OF IT.

Where else would you go? SOUTH?

What a collossal fucking IDIOT.

Further, except for a very limited 24-mile-long Causeway bridge which is by design severely limited (i.e. if you get partially across and traffic stops, you're sitting directly over a soon-to-rise Lake Ponchartrain), there is no route to the north -- you have to go west or east first.

Most evacuees from NOLA btw habitually go to Baton Rouge. I have no idea why that is other than it being not below sea level. Me, I went northwest -- both NORTH and WEST being AWAY from the path of the hurricane.

Holy SHIT that was a stupid post.

Yes, your post surely is stupid. Look at a map. I 59 goes north, I 55 goes north. Hwy 49 in Miss goes north. Those roads had contraflow implemented so that both sides were north-only during the evacuation.

the bottom line is that the loss of life is primarily due to the incompetence of Nagin and Blanco (who hated each other by the way).

No shit Sherlock, I know those roads in my sleep; I have no need of a "map". The poster was questioning why we would be going north when the storm was coming from the south.

I mean DUH.

The point remains, none of those roads go north until you get TO them, which requires first going east or west, which means I-10 or its antecedent, US 90. So one goes east or west for the larger purpose of GOING NORTH.

In my case I had planned to use I-55 but was prevented by the flow being diverted to Baton Rouge so I had to pick up 61 -- a road I've known intimately since babyhood.

Yeah OK. but the causeway goes almost due north. I 55 from NOLA to BR goes north around the west side of the lake, I 10 goes basically north through Slidell. But its silly to argue about compass headings.

The bottom line is that for people stranded in low lying areas because they didn't have vehicles to get out and Ray Nagin at the last moment deciding that insurance liability was a bigger problem than people dying...ANYWHERE outside of New Orleans was going to be safer than somewhere with twelve feet of flood waters!

If a white politician had done what Nagin did...he would have been taken over the coals for turning his back on what was essentially poor black neighborhoods! But since it was a black Mayor not caring about poor blacks...Nagin got a pass and it was Michael Brown that was the "bad guy"!

 

[Redfish]

Doesn't matter. They used that money for other than the repair of the levee's.

If they had repaired the levee's Katrina wouldn't have blooded everything.

Oh and you have that selective reading syndrome.

Did you stop to think that's when the story was written, not when it all occurred. Of course you didn't.

They didn't need new levees. They needed a floodgate at the mouth of lake Pontchartrain.

And I don't agree with Bush that it was a natural disaster. I think the lawsuit that prevented the floodgate from being constructed was perpetrated by a foreign enemy. Espionage.

years of bad hydrology. the MRGO was a disaster waiting to happen. The levee repairs had not been done. the levee design was obsolete. Lots of blame to go around. Nagin and Blanco hated each other and since both were dems they did not want to do anything that might make Bush look good.

Politics and incompetence.

 

[Redfish]

LOL....why would the buses go north when that's the projected path of the storm? Most of the evacuees from New Orleans went west to Houston. You get more pathetic with each post where you try to excuse Nagin's incompetence, Faun.

And just to show that you're REALLY clueless...even going north and inexplicably staying in the path of the storm they would have been far safer than in New Orleans.

New levels of Stupid... if a storm is coming from the south, i.e. travelling north... THEN YOU GO NORTH, TO GET AHEAD OF IT.

Where else would you go? SOUTH?

What a collossal fucking IDIOT.

Further, except for a very limited 24-mile-long Causeway bridge which is by design severely limited (i.e. if you get partially across and traffic stops, you're sitting directly over a soon-to-rise Lake Ponchartrain), there is no route to the north -- you have to go west or east first.

Most evacuees from NOLA btw habitually go to Baton Rouge. I have no idea why that is other than it being not below sea level. Me, I went northwest -- both NORTH and WEST being AWAY from the path of the hurricane.

Holy SHIT that was a stupid post.

Yes, your post surely is stupid. Look at a map. I 59 goes north, I 55 goes north. Hwy 49 in Miss goes north. Those roads had contraflow implemented so that both sides were north-only during the evacuation.

the bottom line is that the loss of life is primarily due to the incompetence of Nagin and Blanco (who hated each other by the way).

No shit Sherlock, I know those roads in my sleep; I have no need of a "map". The poster was questioning why we would be going north when the storm was coming from the south.

I mean DUH.

The point remains, none of those roads go north until you get TO them, which requires first going east or west, which means I-10 or its antecedent, US 90. So one goes east or west for the larger purpose of GOING NORTH.

In my case I had planned to use I-55 but was prevented by the flow being diverted to Baton Rouge so I had to pick up 61 -- a road I've known intimately since babyhood.

Yeah OK. but the causeway goes almost due north. I 55 from NOLA to BR goes north around the west side of the lake, I 10 goes basically north through Slidell. But its silly to argue about compass headings.

The bottom line is that for people stranded in low lying areas because they didn't have vehicles to get out and Ray Nagin at the last moment deciding that insurance liability was a bigger problem than people dying...ANYWHERE outside of New Orleans was going to be safer than somewhere with twelve feet of flood waters!

If a white politician had done what Nagin did...he would have been taken over the coals for turning his back on what was essentially poor black neighborhoods! But since it was a black Mayor not caring about poor blacks...Nagin got a pass and it was Michael Brown that was the "bad guy"!

true, but Nagin did get his due. He is in jail.

 

[Faun]

LOL....why would the buses go north when that's the projected path of the storm? Most of the evacuees from New Orleans went west to Houston. You get more pathetic with each post where you try to excuse Nagin's incompetence, Faun.

And just to show that you're REALLY clueless...even going north and inexplicably staying in the path of the storm they would have been far safer than in New Orleans.

New levels of Stupid... if a storm is coming from the south, i.e. travelling north... THEN YOU GO NORTH, TO GET AHEAD OF IT.

Where else would you go? SOUTH?

What a collossal fucking IDIOT.

Further, except for a very limited 24-mile-long Causeway bridge which is by design severely limited (i.e. if you get partially across and traffic stops, you're sitting directly over a soon-to-rise Lake Ponchartrain), there is no route to the north -- you have to go west or east first.

Most evacuees from NOLA btw habitually go to Baton Rouge. I have no idea why that is other than it being not below sea level. Me, I went northwest -- both NORTH and WEST being AWAY from the path of the hurricane.

Holy SHIT that was a stupid post.

Yes, your post surely is stupid. Look at a map. I 59 goes north, I 55 goes north. Hwy 49 in Miss goes north. Those roads had contraflow implemented so that both sides were north-only during the evacuation.

the bottom line is that the loss of life is primarily due to the incompetence of Nagin and Blanco (who hated each other by the way).

No shit Sherlock, I know those roads in my sleep; I have no need of a "map". The poster was questioning why we would be going north when the storm was coming from the south.

I mean DUH.

The point remains, none of those roads go north until you get TO them, which requires first going east or west, which means I-10 or its antecedent, US 90. So one goes east or west for the larger purpose of GOING NORTH.

In my case I had planned to use I-55 but was prevented by the flow being diverted to Baton Rouge so I had to pick up 61 -- a road I've known intimately since babyhood.

Yeah OK. but the causeway goes almost due north. I 55 from NOLA to BR goes north around the west side of the lake, I 10 goes basically north through Slidell. But its silly to argue about compass headings.

The bottom line is that for people stranded in low lying areas because they didn't have vehicles to get out and Ray Nagin at the last moment deciding that insurance liability was a bigger problem than people dying...ANYWHERE outside of New Orleans was going to be safer than somewhere with twelve feet of flood waters!

If a white politician had done what Nagin did...he would have been taken over the coals for turning his back on what was essentially poor black neighborhoods! But since it was a black Mayor not caring about poor blacks...Nagin got a pass and it was Michael Brown that was the "bad guy"!

So you're OK then just driving 2 hours north of the city and leaving people in buses instead of in shelters where the storm could have wiped away thousands more?

 

[Redfish]

New levels of Stupid... if a storm is coming from the south, i.e. travelling north... THEN YOU GO NORTH, TO GET AHEAD OF IT.

Where else would you go? SOUTH?

What a collossal fucking IDIOT.

Further, except for a very limited 24-mile-long Causeway bridge which is by design severely limited (i.e. if you get partially across and traffic stops, you're sitting directly over a soon-to-rise Lake Ponchartrain), there is no route to the north -- you have to go west or east first.

Most evacuees from NOLA btw habitually go to Baton Rouge. I have no idea why that is other than it being not below sea level. Me, I went northwest -- both NORTH and WEST being AWAY from the path of the hurricane.

Holy SHIT that was a stupid post.

Yes, your post surely is stupid. Look at a map. I 59 goes north, I 55 goes north. Hwy 49 in Miss goes north. Those roads had contraflow implemented so that both sides were north-only during the evacuation.

the bottom line is that the loss of life is primarily due to the incompetence of Nagin and Blanco (who hated each other by the way).

No shit Sherlock, I know those roads in my sleep; I have no need of a "map". The poster was questioning why we would be going north when the storm was coming from the south.

I mean DUH.

The point remains, none of those roads go north until you get TO them, which requires first going east or west, which means I-10 or its antecedent, US 90. So one goes east or west for the larger purpose of GOING NORTH.

In my case I had planned to use I-55 but was prevented by the flow being diverted to Baton Rouge so I had to pick up 61 -- a road I've known intimately since babyhood.

Yeah OK. but the causeway goes almost due north. I 55 from NOLA to BR goes north around the west side of the lake, I 10 goes basically north through Slidell. But its silly to argue about compass headings.

The bottom line is that for people stranded in low lying areas because they didn't have vehicles to get out and Ray Nagin at the last moment deciding that insurance liability was a bigger problem than people dying...ANYWHERE outside of New Orleans was going to be safer than somewhere with twelve feet of flood waters!

If a white politician had done what Nagin did...he would have been taken over the coals for turning his back on what was essentially poor black neighborhoods! But since it was a black Mayor not caring about poor blacks...Nagin got a pass and it was Michael Brown that was the "bad guy"!

So you're OK then just driving 2 hours north of the city and leaving people in buses instead of in shelters where the storm could have wiped away thousands more?

people were left in buses because of the incompetence of nagin and blanco, not FEMA or Bush.

As to shelters, there were none that did not flood, thats why they all went to the superdome.

The problems were local, not federal. FEMA, the USCG, the national guard, and volunteers from all over were the heroes.

 

[Pogo]

Doesn't matter. They used that money for other than the repair of the levee's.

If they had repaired the levee's Katrina wouldn't have blooded everything.

Oh and you have that selective reading syndrome.

Did you stop to think that's when the story was written, not when it all occurred. Of course you didn't.

They didn't need new levees. They needed a floodgate at the mouth of lake Pontchartrain.

And I don't agree with Bush that it was a natural disaster. I think the lawsuit that prevented the floodgate from being constructed was perpetrated by a foreign enemy. Espionage.

years of bad hydrology. the MRGO was a disaster waiting to happen. The levee repairs had not been done. the levee design was obsolete. Lots of blame to go around. Nagin and Blanco hated each other and since both were dems they did not want to do anything that might make Bush look good.

Politics and incompetence.

You almost got it yet just contradicted yourself -- Nagin was never a "Dem" until it came time to run for an office that hadn't elected anything else since the 19th century. He actively endorsed Blanco's opponent (as well as George Bush). THAT if anything is why they got along like oil and water.

​

/offtopic

 

[Redfish]

Doesn't matter. They used that money for other than the repair of the levee's.

If they had repaired the levee's Katrina wouldn't have blooded everything.

Oh and you have that selective reading syndrome.

Did you stop to think that's when the story was written, not when it all occurred. Of course you didn't.

They didn't need new levees. They needed a floodgate at the mouth of lake Pontchartrain.

And I don't agree with Bush that it was a natural disaster. I think the lawsuit that prevented the floodgate from being constructed was perpetrated by a foreign enemy. Espionage.

years of bad hydrology. the MRGO was a disaster waiting to happen. The levee repairs had not been done. the levee design was obsolete. Lots of blame to go around. Nagin and Blanco hated each other and since both were dems they did not want to do anything that might make Bush look good.

Politics and incompetence.

You almost got it yet just contradicted yourself -- Nagin was never a "Dem" until it came time to run for an office that hadn't elected anything else since the 19th century. He actively endorsed Blanco's opponent (as well as George Bush). THAT if anything is why they got along like oil and water.

​

/offtopic

All true. Whats your point? Nagin ran as a dem, was elected as a dem by the dems in Orleans parish. Then, as a dem, he failed to properly execute his duties as mayor to protect the people from an impending disaster. He supported Jindal in opposition to blanco. He and blanco hated each other and refused to work together, thereby putting politics ahead of the people. He belongs in jail.

 

[Pogo]

Doesn't matter. They used that money for other than the repair of the levee's.

If they had repaired the levee's Katrina wouldn't have blooded everything.

Oh and you have that selective reading syndrome.

Did you stop to think that's when the story was written, not when it all occurred. Of course you didn't.

They didn't need new levees. They needed a floodgate at the mouth of lake Pontchartrain.

And I don't agree with Bush that it was a natural disaster. I think the lawsuit that prevented the floodgate from being constructed was perpetrated by a foreign enemy. Espionage.

years of bad hydrology. the MRGO was a disaster waiting to happen. The levee repairs had not been done. the levee design was obsolete. Lots of blame to go around. Nagin and Blanco hated each other and since both were dems they did not want to do anything that might make Bush look good.

Politics and incompetence.

You almost got it yet just contradicted yourself -- Nagin was never a "Dem" until it came time to run for an office that hadn't elected anything else since the 19th century. He actively endorsed Blanco's opponent (as well as George Bush). THAT if anything is why they got along like oil and water.

​

/offtopic

All true. Whats your point? Nagin ran as a dem, was elected as a dem by the dems in Orleans parish. Then, as a dem, he failed to properly execute his duties as mayor to protect the people from an impending disaster. He supported Jindal in opposition to blanco. He and blanco hated each other and refused to work together, thereby putting politics ahead of the people. He belongs in jail.

What's the point? Correcting a myth. A myth that fuels a Composition Fallacy.
Of course he belongs in jail. I can think of literally no one in New Orleans who would disagree with that.

 

[Pogo]

Yes, your post surely is stupid. Look at a map. I 59 goes north, I 55 goes north. Hwy 49 in Miss goes north. Those roads had contraflow implemented so that both sides were north-only during the evacuation.

the bottom line is that the loss of life is primarily due to the incompetence of Nagin and Blanco (who hated each other by the way).

No shit Sherlock, I know those roads in my sleep; I have no need of a "map". The poster was questioning why we would be going north when the storm was coming from the south.

I mean DUH.

The point remains, none of those roads go north until you get TO them, which requires first going east or west, which means I-10 or its antecedent, US 90. So one goes east or west for the larger purpose of GOING NORTH.

In my case I had planned to use I-55 but was prevented by the flow being diverted to Baton Rouge so I had to pick up 61 -- a road I've known intimately since babyhood.

Yeah OK. but the causeway goes almost due north. I 55 from NOLA to BR goes north around the west side of the lake, I 10 goes basically north through Slidell. But its silly to argue about compass headings.

The bottom line is that for people stranded in low lying areas because they didn't have vehicles to get out and Ray Nagin at the last moment deciding that insurance liability was a bigger problem than people dying...ANYWHERE outside of New Orleans was going to be safer than somewhere with twelve feet of flood waters!

If a white politician had done what Nagin did...he would have been taken over the coals for turning his back on what was essentially poor black neighborhoods! But since it was a black Mayor not caring about poor blacks...Nagin got a pass and it was Michael Brown that was the "bad guy"!

So you're OK then just driving 2 hours north of the city and leaving people in buses instead of in shelters where the storm could have wiped away thousands more?

people were left in buses because of the incompetence of nagin and blanco, not FEMA or Bush.

As to shelters, there were none that did not flood, thats why they all went to the superdome.

The problems were local, not federal. FEMA, the USCG, the national guard, and volunteers from all over were the heroes.

Where are we getting this "people left on buses" story? A day ago it was "the buses never ran" -- now they ran?

And what the hell does the governor have to do with where city buses go?