Brown Case Shows Need for Street Cameras

[protectionist]

How so? We're talking about ideas for increasing security, right? Can we really only talk about YOUR idea?

According to the forum, you can only talk about the TOPIC. The topic is STREET CAMERAS.

 

[protectionist]

You know what else would work to stop crime - mandatory genetic screening. Everyone is directed to give up a DNA sample and then we're all in the national database. Anytime a criminal leaves DNA then they'd be found by the search.

Big Brother luvs you and wants to hug you in his warm, protective embrace.

You know what else would work to stop crime - mandatory genetic screening. Everyone is directed to give up a DNA sample and then we're all in the national database. Anytime a criminal leaves DNA then they'd be found by the search.

Big Brother luvs you and wants to hug you in his warm, protective embrace.

I'd say the DNA national database is another excellent idea. One that CRIMINALS hate. You're not one of them are you ?

 

[flacaltenn]

OK. If it makes you feel any better, the street cameras prevent some dirtbag from pouncing on YOU, kicking YOUR teeth in, stealing YOUR car, YOUR wallet, andif you are not a cYOUR wife.

Better now ?

Not at all. All those things will STILL transpire. Cameras will just document the crime for prosecution purposes. You are tilting towards overselling the bebfits side. As far as not worrying about your liberties if you are not a criminal -- do you have pipe, batteries and or fertilizer in your garage? Then you are a priori "in possession of bomb making materials" Just being NOTICED by the govt
Is a risk these days. And statist loving conservatives like you will learn too late about the Orwellian consequences of having govt agencies take notice of you.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

What "rights" could you be giving up by having street cameras ? I don't see any loss of "rights"/

Please don't do that. Don't change the meaning of the post you are quoting by leaving out the post being replied to.

@dblack wrote "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear!"

If that were true, we would not need Miranda and in prison would be guilty.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Please don't do that. Don't change the meaning of the post you are quoting by leaving out the post being replied to.

@dblack wrote "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear!"

If that were true, we would not need Miranda and in prison would be guilty.

What "rights" could you be giving up by having street cameras ? I don't see any loss of "rights"/

As for cameras leading to a loss of rights, I don't think they do. The opposite is probably true.

Eyewitnesses are notoriously inaccurate. Cameras are almost always accurate.

 

[dblack]

I'd say the DNA national database is another excellent idea. One that CRIMINALS hate. You're not one of them are you ?

But what about implants, that's even better, right?

 

[Rikurzhen]

But what about implants, that's even better, right?

Recall the police reaction after the Boston Bombing - mandatory house searches. If you objected to having the police search your house you were considered a suspect.

Think of how much crime could be prevented if police could conduct surprise inspections of your home.

If you're not a criminal then you have nothing to hide, right?

 

[Againsheila]

Here's what happens thousands of times every day in America. A crime is committed out in broad daylight, but nobody was there to see it. Or if/whenever somebody says they were, nobody knows if that's true. Result ? No charges placed becasue of insufficient evidence.

At the same time, an innocent person could get caught up in something when in the aftermath, it appears like he might have done a crime. He gets arrested wrongly.

All this could be avoided by having street cameras, hooked into recorders.

I am a big fan of the TV show "Forensic Files". It is amazing how many criminals would have gone scott free had it not been for the forensic science investigation. But many criminals ARE going free right now, only because of the lack of street cameras which could catch criminals in the act, before the cops even arrive at the scene.

The Brown case is a perfect example. Had a street camera been on in the street where the shooting occured we could simple play back the video and know exactly what happened. There was no camera, so we can't. Contrast that with the camera/recorder of the convenience store which WAS operating, and DID catch thug boy Brown right in his tracks. And without that video, we would be seeing this Brown case quite differently right now.

Another example is the Carlie Brucia murder case. Killer Joseph Smith was convicted killing 11 year old Carlie. But would he have been even arrested, if not for a video which showed him and little Carlie Brucia walking together through a car wash, where Smith picked her up ? Probably not.

Instead of street cameras, how about we make the cops wear cameras?

 

[saveliberty]

I think we all have a right to privacy and humans need that. They have such a thing as police cameras police officers can wear. It records video and audio. That seems a more private and less costly way to do things.

 

[protectionist]

Not at all. All those things will STILL transpire. Cameras will just document the crime for prosecution purposes. You are tilting towards overselling the bebfits side. As far as not worrying about your liberties if you are not a criminal -- do you have pipe, batteries and or fertilizer in your garage? Then you are a priori "in possession of bomb making materials" Just being NOTICED by the govt
Is a risk these days. And statist loving conservatives like you will learn too late about the Orwellian consequences of having govt agencies take notice of you.

You don't get it. The cameras get the criminals OFF THE STREET so these they aren't there to DO these things. They also tell the crooks that when they walk out carrying you TV set, they're going to be recorded. Some crooks might be idiots like Michael Brown and do their crimes right in front of the camera, but most will no better, and pass on the idea.

I don't t this bomb amking materials thing. So what ? What doe sthat hav eto do with street cameras ? Nothing that I can see.

As for your being noticed theory, perhaps petting a cat, hot baths, and if necessary a chill pill n=might help with that paranoia. I'm a lot more paranoid about criminals than the govt.

 

[protectionist]

Please don't do that. Don't change the meaning of the post you are quoting by leaving out the post being replied to.

@dblack wrote "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear!"

If that were true, we would not need Miranda and in prison would be guilty.

I have no clue what this is talking about. Could as well have been in Chinese.

 

[protectionist]

As for cameras leading to a loss of rights, I don't think they do. The opposite is probably true.

Eyewitnesses are notoriously inaccurate. Cameras are almost always accurate.

Correct. And the videos erase the problem of FALSE testimonies which sometimes send innocent people to prison. How's that for dealing with your rights ?

 

[protectionist]

But what about implants, that's even better, right?

Unecessary if you have a DNA national database. Your body fluids are your already built-in "implant". Why add more ?

 

[protectionist]

I think we all have a right to privacy and humans need that. They have such a thing as police cameras police officers can wear. It records video and audio. That seems a more private and less costly way to do things.

If they have audio they are LESS private . Street cameras are only video. Also there is no such thing as privacy when we're out in PUBLIC.

 

[WinterBorn]

Given what's happened in legal cases with traffic crimes being the sole 'witness' I don't think more street cameras are the solution. But absolutely every patrol vehicle should have a dashcam. And officer-worn 'badge cams' are a great idea as well. Coulda skipped this whole Ferguson mess if the officer'd had one or both to document what happened.

Some police resist cameras, others embrace it. I'm all for it. It'll prove when officers do right, while also proving when the few bad apples do wrong helping us get rid of them so they don't tarnish the whole force.

I think you have the right idea here. Dashcams and badgecams are the way to go. That way our officers are protected (or given incentive to behave).

 

[WinterBorn]

Maybe he should start his own thread. If you're not a criminal, you have nothing to hide. RIGHT!

The idea that we should submit to constant surveillance because "if you aren't a criminal you have nothing to hide" is a terrible slippery slope. Why would cops need a warrant to search our car? If you haven't done anything wrong, why wouldn't you let them search it? Why would you need a lawyer? If you haven't done anything wrong, you should be fine talking with the police.

 

[WinterBorn]

What's Wrong With Public Video Surveillance? | American Civil Liberties Union

Interesting article about the problems with public video cameras.

 

[flacaltenn]

You don't get it. The cameras get the criminals OFF THE STREET so these they aren't there to DO these things. They also tell the crooks that when they walk out carrying you TV set, they're going to be recorded. Some crooks might be idiots like Michael Brown and do their crimes right in front of the camera, but most will no better, and pass on the idea.

I don't t this bomb amking materials thing. So what ? What doe sthat hav eto do with street cameras ? Nothing that I can see.

As for your being noticed theory, perhaps petting a cat, hot baths, and if necessary a chill pill n=might help with that paranoia. I'm a lot more paranoid about criminals than the govt.

You are STILL overselling the benefits. We've had cameras in banks for ages and the number of bank robberies is NOT going down. It only means that when the guy is loading your TV out of your home, he's gonna look like a good approximation to Cher.. I've been close to theatre in my life and at 50 feet -- I can make an 18 yr old boy look like Hillary Clinton. And I've also been on the cutting edge of facial recognition which is nowhere NEAR being effective at those distances and lighting conditions.

And there is no cure for your love of govt surveillance. Once you have the attention of the authorities, they can make an innocent person's life a living hell. Just being in the proximity of a crime and showing up on those videos (if they are ever reviewed by a human) will get someone to your door. Which is the ONLY excuse they need to compel you to testify or make a statement whether you care to or not. And if those "bomb-making materials" are in your garage and the crime involves a bomb --- you --- Mr Law and Order will have some "splaining to do" AFTER they subpoena all of your computer, phone, and financial records if you don't WANT to cooperate..It will be LEAgents carrying that stuff out of your abode.. AFTER they shoot your dog..

You have no idea the type of out of control surveillance and justice state we are dealing with today..

 

[Rikurzhen]

You are STILL overselling the benefits. We've had cameras in banks for ages and the number of bank robberies is NOT going down. It only means that when the guy is loading your TV out of your home, he's gonna look like a good approximation to Cher.. I've been close to theatre in my life and at 50 feet -- I can make an 18 yr old boy look like Hillary Clinton. And I've also been on the cutting edge of facial recognition which is nowhere NEAR being effective at those distances and lighting conditions.

And there is no cure for your love of govt surveillance. Once you have the attention of the authorities, they can make an innocent person's life a living hell. Just being in the proximity of a crime and showing up on those videos (if they are ever reviewed by a human) will get someone to your door. Which is the ONLY excuse they need to compel you to testify or make a statement whether you care to or not. And if those "bomb-making materials" are in your garage and the crime involves a bomb --- you --- Mr Law and Order will have some "splaining to do" AFTER they subpoena all of your computer, phone, and financial records if you don't WANT to cooperate..It will be LEAgents carrying that stuff out of your abode.. AFTER they shoot your dog..

You have no idea the type of out of control surveillance and justice state we are dealing with today..

Exactly. Look at what constitutes bomb making materials from an actual arrest but without an actual bomb or any explosion caused by a bomb.

According to investigators, Leone then brought the officer to the garage where items used to produce explosive devices were seen. Among the items the officer saw were roadside flares, sulfuric acid, Clorox, PVC pipes, matches, Draino, PVC, Play-Doh and BBs.​

Every single item there has a legitimate use. Welcome to Federal Lock-up Mr. Terrorist - how dare you have Drano and Clorox in your house.

 

[flacaltenn]

Exactly. Look at what constitutes bomb making materials from an actual arrest but without an actual bomb or any explosion caused by a bomb.

According to investigators, Leone then brought the officer to the garage where items used to produce explosive devices were seen. Among the items the officer saw were roadside flares, sulfuric acid, Clorox, PVC pipes, matches, Draino, PVC, Play-Doh and BBs.​

Every single item there has a legitimate use. Welcome to Federal Lock-up Mr. Terrorist - how dare you have Drano and Clorox in your house.

Exactly !! There was just a Federal Case where they charged a lady for violations of the Intl. Chem. Weapons treaty for using caustic kitchen materials to burn a neighbor's hand.. It gets escalated rather quickly these days.. All they need is an EXCUSE to pressure you into cooperating or testifying in some case because you were coming home from Dunkin Doughnuts when something evil was caught on camera..