British spies helped the Japanese to plan the Pearl Harbor attack.

Discussion in 'History' started by Urbanguerrilla, May 21, 2012.

  1. Urbanguerrilla
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    Urbanguerrilla Silver Member

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    A BBC programme to be shown on BBC 2 television tonight at 9pm will show how high ranking British spies helped the Japanese to plan the Pearl Harbor attack.

    One was Lord Semphill. He began aiding the Japanese during the Anglo-Japanese alliance. He played a crucial role in building up the Japanese carrier fleet during the 1920s and 30s. In 1939 he was working for the British admiralty. In 1941 he reported on discussions between Roosevelt and Churchill which showed much of the American fleet was deployed in the Atlantic and could not respond to an attack on Pearl Harbor. Despite knowledge of his treachery becoming known, the British took no action against him beyond a demotion.

    The other spy was Frederick Rutland who also helped to develop the Japanese carrier fleet. Later he moved to Hawaii where he worked for US military companies whose secrets he sent to Tokyo. In 1941 he sent photographs of Pearl Harbor to Japan. He was detained during the war but never prosecuted. The Fall of Singapore: The Great Betrayal
     
  2. Oddball
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    Irrelevant to the fact that FDR deliberately provoked the attack, via many other far less covert means.

    But thanks for the info anyways.
     
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  3. Two Thumbs
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    Nice to know some specifics.

    Most already know FDR was a fucking traitorous tyrant bent on getting Americans killed so we would be forced from isolation and the Depression could finally end.

    liberals worship fdr and wonder why conservatives don't.
     
  4. Unkotare
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    Unkotare Diamond Member

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    The Great Depression didn't end because of the war. It ended when the war was over and controls over the economy were lifted (and a very large work force came home to meet the needs of expanding industry shifting to peacetime production).
     
  5. Two Thumbs
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  6. Unkotare
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    Unkotare Diamond Member

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    Wartime conditions suspended the prewar economic reality, but real, sustained growth did not return until artificial controls were lifted.
     
  7. Urbanguerrilla
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    Urbanguerrilla Silver Member

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    BBC Two - The Fall of Singapore: The Great Betrayal

    Excellent documentary.

    MI5 knew about William Forbes-Sempill since 1923. He was cautioned by the Atorney General in 1924 but continued to work for the Japanese right through the war although he was rumbled several times. He was protected by the very people he was spying on because he was a peer.
     
  8. whitehall
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    whitehall Gold Member

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    What information could the Brits give the Japanese that they didn't already have? The Japanese had detailed maps of Pearl Harbor and they knew the depth of the water and the tides. Japanese spies informed them about US fleet movements. The only thing the Japanese didn't have was safe passage across the ocean. Or did they?
     
  9. Urbanguerrilla
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    Urbanguerrilla Silver Member

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    Try and see the documentary if you can its quite good.

    The British spys taught the Japanese how to fly off carriers, how to build carriers (dont forget at the time this was the latest war winning technology), gave them the latest details about the Jaguar IV engine which allowed them to build the Zero fighter bomber (which went on to prove its war winability by taking on a British battle group and sinking its capitol ship, The Prince of Wales); gave them the latest technology on aircraft dropped torpedoes.

    When Churchill met Roosvelt the Japanese had a report of the meeting the next day courtesy of Sempill. He was awarded the Order of the Rising Sun.
     
  10. Swagger
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    Swagger Gold Member

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    Britain would do whatever was needed to sustain its grip on its empire. That included co-operating with a rising power in its sphere of influence. Paid off, while it lasted.
     

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