British national health service is in crisis..despite all the money they spend.

2aguy

Diamond Member
Jul 19, 2014
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yep...the gold standard in government controlled healthcare is crap....just like we keep pointing out to those begging for single payer here in the states....

The British National Health Service Is in Crisis: What Else Is New? - Online Library of Law & Liberty

Yet again, however, the NHS is in ‘crisis.’ The British Red Cross has called the present situation an incipient humanitarian crisis, as if the country were now more or less in the same category as Haiti after a hurricane, earthquake or other natural disaster. The Red Cross says that it had been asked to help out at twenty hospitals. - See more at

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The current NHS has a budget 50 per cent greater than it had 10 years ago. It employs 25 per cent more doctors than it did then. It seems to me likely that these increases outstrip any increase in demand during that period, but the net result, according to those who say the present situation is the worst ever, is that it is less able than ever before to perform satisfactorily its most elementary tasks such as treating emergencies promptly.

The excuse that demand has escalated is, in fact, in contradiction to one of the now-forgotten founding justifications of the NHS back in 1948: namely that universal healthcare paid for from general taxation, and free at the point of use, would so improve the health of the population that its cost would soon fall rapidly. This, of course, now seems astonishingly naïve, but perhaps the founders may be excused for not having foreseen the immense technical and technological progress of medicine, as well as the increase in longevity, that would drive up costs of healthcare everywhere in the world. Almost certainly, they haven’t finished rising yet.
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Oddly enough, however, and unnoticed by the population or by the NHS’s ideological praise-singers, the NHS had no egalitarian effect, rather the opposite. The difference between the health of the top economic decile of the population and that of the bottom decile, which had been more or less steady for decades, began to widen immediately. Curiously enough, this widening accelerated precisely at a time when most money was spent on the system. The difference in the standard mortality rate of the richest and poorest is now almost double what it was when the NHS began. - See more at: The British National Health Service Is in Crisis: What Else Is New? - Online Library of Law & Liberty
- See more
at: The British National Health Service Is in Crisis: What Else Is New? - Online Library of Law & Liberty
 
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The British Red Cross has declared the British health care system and patient care in the UK to be facing a "humanitarian crisis".

"Fifty of England’s 152 NHS acute hospital trusts were forced to declare an alert last month, and sometimes temporarily scale back the level of care they offered to patients, because they could not cope with the number of people seeking medical attention, according to analysis by the Nuffield Trust health thinktank. Every hospital in Essex has had to go on “black alert” – the NHS’s highest level – in recent weeks."

NHS faces 'humanitarian crisis' as demand rises, British Red Cross warns

UK hospital A&E departments (accident and emergency rooms) are closing their doors to many seeking emergency treatment:

"A&E departments shut their doors to patients more than 140 times in December, a 63 per cent rise on the previous year."

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Uk hospitals are charged with seeing A&E (emergency room) patients within 4 hours of their arrival and many hospitals are unable to do this:

"More than 50 hospitals in England have been given the green light to miss key waiting time targets this year to help ease their financial problems."

.......

"Hospitals have been struggling to hit their targets for some time and will now no longer be fined for missing the four-hour A&E target, the 62-day target to get cancer treatment and the 18-week goal for routine operations, such as hip and knee replacements."

Hospitals given green light to miss waiting time targets - BBC News

Are we sure we want European style healthcare in the US?

.
 



Before ObamaCare....the best in the world


How to judge healthcare:
a) life expectancy: many people die for reasons that can’t be controlled the medical profession, such as auto accidents, murder, etc., and once you factor out care crashes and homicides, the US ranks number one in worldwide life expectancy!
“One often-heard argument, voiced by the New York Times' Paul Krugman and others, is that America lags behind other countries in crude health outcomes. But such outcomes reflect a mosaic of factors, such as diet, lifestyle, drug use and cultural values. It pains me as a doctor to say this, but health care is just one factor in health.
In The Business of Health, Robert Ohsfeldt and John Schneider factor out intentional and unintentional injuries from life-expectancy statistics and find that Americans who don't die in car crashes or homicides outlive people in any other Western country.
And if we measure a health care system by how well it serves its sick citizens, American medicine excels.
http://www.davepetno.com/blog/index.php?itemid=30

b." The standardized estimate of life expectancy at birth is the mean of the predicted value for each country over the period 1980–99. As shown in table 1-5, the raw (not standardized) mean life expectancy at birth for the United States over this period was 75.3 years, compared to 78.7 years for Japan, 78.0 years for Iceland, and 77.7 years for Sweden. However, after accounting for the unusually high fatal-injury rates in the United States, the estimate of standardized life expectancy at birth is 76.9 years, which is higher than the estimates for any other OECD country." http://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/-the-business-of-health_110115929760.pdf

You really should grow up and stop believing the collectivist's propaganda.
 
Uk hospitals are charged with seeing A&E (emergency room) patients within 4 hours of their arrival and many hospitals are unable to do this:

"More than 50 hospitals in England have been given the green light to miss key waiting time targets this year to help ease their financial problems."

.......

"Hospitals have been struggling to hit their targets for some time and will now no longer be fined for missing the four-hour A&E target, the 62-day target to get cancer treatment and the 18-week goal for routine operations, such as hip and knee replacements."

Hospitals given green light to miss waiting time targets - BBC News

Are we sure we want European style healthcare in the US?

.



When pliers are an accouterments for healthcare.....this should be a clue:

LONDON, England (CNN) -- Some English people have resorted to pulling out their own teeth because they cannot find -- or cannot afford -- a dentist, a major study has revealed.

Six percent of those surveyed in an English study said they had resorted to dental "self-treatment."

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Six percent of those questioned in a survey of 5,000 patients admitted they had resorted to self-treatment using pliers and glue, the UK's Press Association reported.

England has a two-tier dental care system with some dentists offering publicly subsidized treatment through the National Health Service and others performing more expensive private work.

But more than three-quarters of those polled said they had been forced to pay for private treatment because they had been unable to find an NHS dentist.
Almost a fifth said they had refused dental treatment because of the cost.

Valerie Halsworth, 64, told British television's GMTV she had removed seven of her own teeth using her husband's pliers when her toothache became unbearable and she was unable to find an NHS dentist willing to treat her."
Brits resort to pulling own teeth - CNN.com
 





Before ObamaCare....the best in the world


How to judge healthcare:
a) life expectancy: many people die for reasons that can’t be controlled the medical profession, such as auto accidents, murder, etc., and once you factor out care crashes and homicides, the US ranks number one in worldwide life expectancy!
“One often-heard argument, voiced by the New York Times' Paul Krugman and others, is that America lags behind other countries in crude health outcomes. But such outcomes reflect a mosaic of factors, such as diet, lifestyle, drug use and cultural values. It pains me as a doctor to say this, but health care is just one factor in health.
In The Business of Health, Robert Ohsfeldt and John Schneider factor out intentional and unintentional injuries from life-expectancy statistics and find that Americans who don't die in car crashes or homicides outlive people in any other Western country.
And if we measure a health care system by how well it serves its sick citizens, American medicine excels.
http://www.davepetno.com/blog/index.php?itemid=30

b." The standardized estimate of life expectancy at birth is the mean of the predicted value for each country over the period 1980–99. As shown in table 1-5, the raw (not standardized) mean life expectancy at birth for the United States over this period was 75.3 years, compared to 78.7 years for Japan, 78.0 years for Iceland, and 77.7 years for Sweden. However, after accounting for the unusually high fatal-injury rates in the United States, the estimate of standardized life expectancy at birth is 76.9 years, which is higher than the estimates for any other OECD country." http://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/-the-business-of-health_110115929760.pdf

You really should grow up and stop believing the collectivist's propaganda.

Bullshit hon, HeritageFoundationCare did nothing to budge the needle at all for the average working american. Most expensive healthcare system in the world, shitty outcomes relative to other advance societies.

Collectivist propaganda, corporate propaganda, yes hon, one must wade through all of it.

America is a wonderful place to be wealthy, no one seriously argues that. And anyone who has healthcare insurance is a collectivist hon, including you.
 





Before ObamaCare....the best in the world


How to judge healthcare:
a) life expectancy: many people die for reasons that can’t be controlled the medical profession, such as auto accidents, murder, etc., and once you factor out care crashes and homicides, the US ranks number one in worldwide life expectancy!
“One often-heard argument, voiced by the New York Times' Paul Krugman and others, is that America lags behind other countries in crude health outcomes. But such outcomes reflect a mosaic of factors, such as diet, lifestyle, drug use and cultural values. It pains me as a doctor to say this, but health care is just one factor in health.
In The Business of Health, Robert Ohsfeldt and John Schneider factor out intentional and unintentional injuries from life-expectancy statistics and find that Americans who don't die in car crashes or homicides outlive people in any other Western country.
And if we measure a health care system by how well it serves its sick citizens, American medicine excels.
http://www.davepetno.com/blog/index.php?itemid=30

b." The standardized estimate of life expectancy at birth is the mean of the predicted value for each country over the period 1980–99. As shown in table 1-5, the raw (not standardized) mean life expectancy at birth for the United States over this period was 75.3 years, compared to 78.7 years for Japan, 78.0 years for Iceland, and 77.7 years for Sweden. However, after accounting for the unusually high fatal-injury rates in the United States, the estimate of standardized life expectancy at birth is 76.9 years, which is higher than the estimates for any other OECD country." http://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/-the-business-of-health_110115929760.pdf

You really should grow up and stop believing the collectivist's propaganda.

Bullshit hon, HeritageFoundationCare did nothing to budge the needle at all for the average working american. Most expensive healthcare system in the world, shitty outcomes relative to other advance societies.

Collectivist propaganda, corporate propaganda, yes hon, one must wade through all of it.

America is a wonderful place to be wealthy, no one seriously argues that. And anyone who has healthcare insurance is a collectivist hon, including you.


I don't use your sort of vulgarity....I simply reveal you to be an imbecile.


Like this: before Obama told you what to believe, about 9% of those with healthcare were happy with it.


"When we started this health care debate a year ago, 85 percent of the American people had health insurance, and 95 percent of the 85 percent were happy with it."
George Will on Sunday, February 21st, 2010 in a roundtable segment on ABC's This Week"
Will says that 95 percent of people with health insurance are satisfied with it PolitiFact



Here's what we found, poll by poll, in reverse chronological order:

Quinnipiac University, Sept. 2009. "How satisfied are you with your health insurance plan?" 54 percent very satisfied, 34 percent somewhat.Total: 88 percent satisfaction.

Quinnipiac University, June 2009. "How satisfied are you with your health insurance plan?" 49 percent very satisfied, 36 somewhat satisfied.Total: 85 percent satisfaction.

ABC News/Washington Post, June 2009. "For each specific item I name, please tell me whether you are very satisfied with it, somewhat satisfied, somewhat dissatisfied or very dissatisfied. ... Your health insurance coverage." 42 percent very satisfied, 39 percent somewhat satisfied. Total: 81 percent satisfaction.

Mathew Greenwald & Associates for the Employee Benefit Research Institute, May 2009. "Overall, how satisfied are you with your current health insurance plan?" 21 percent extremely satisfied, 37 percent very satisfied, 30 percent somewhat satisfied. Total: 88 percent satisfaction.

ABC News/Washington Post, June 2009. "For each specific item I name, please tell me whether you are very satisfied with it, somewhat satisfied, somewhat dissatisfied or very dissatisfied. ... Your health insurance coverage." 42 percent very satisfied, 39 percent somewhat satisfied. Total: 81 percent satisfaction.

Mathew Greenwald & Associates for the Employee Benefit Research Institute, Aug. 2008. "Please rate your satisfaction with each of the following aspects of your health care. ... Quality of health care I receive through my (health insurance) plan." 31 percent extremely satisfied, 41 percent very satisfied, 23 somewhat satisfied. Total: 95 percent satisfaction.

Mathew Greenwald & Associates for the Employee Benefit Research Institute, Aug. 2008. "Please rate your satisfaction with each of the following aspects of your health care. ... Overall satisfaction with my health (insurance) care plan." 23 percent extremely satisfied, 38 percent very satisfied, 30 percent somewhat satisfied. Total: 91 percent satisfaction.

Mathew Greenwald & Associates for the Employee Benefit Research Institute, May 2008. "Overall, how satisfied are you with your current health insurance plan?" 17 percent extremely satisfied, 36 percent very satisfied, 33 percent somewhat satisfied. Total: 86 percent satisfaction.

If you average these eight scores, the total rate of satisfaction is 87 percent. In all but one poll, the satisfaction level was below Will's stated level of 95 percent.

One poll, taken five months before Obama was inaugurated, did come up with 95 percent satisfaction. But alone among these eight polls, that survey asked participants about the "quality of health care I receive through my (health insurance) plan." While we decided that the wording was close enough to merit inclusion on our list, the modest difference in satisfaction levels may stem from the way the question was phrased. Many people feel more warmly toward their doctors than they do toward their insurers.

So, while one poll with unique wording pegged satisfaction at 95 percent, the average of all relevant polls over a two-year period was eight points lower than what Will cited. However, Will is correct that the levels of satisfaction with one's own health insurance are consistently high. Indeed, they're extraordinarily high, when one considers how rarely surveys find such high levels of agreement among Americans. Since Will portrayed the larger point accurately, even while modestly overstating the number, we rate his comment Mostly True."

Will says that 95 percent of people with health insurance are satisfied with it



Sooooo.....in order for you not to be an imbecile...all of these folks must be 'wealthy.'
 
The last time we had great healthcare was before Reagan deregulated the bipartisan HMO act. Today, it's no more than a profit shop for insurance companies.
 
The last time we had great healthcare was before Reagan deregulated the bipartisan HMO act. Today, it's no more than a profit shop for insurance companies.


Sooooo....you claim that you're smarter than the 90% who were happy with their healthcare insurance prior to Obama?


Truth be told, you aren't smarter than 90% of the cans of tomatoes on a Walmart shelf.
 



Before ObamaCare....the best in the world


How to judge healthcare:
a) life expectancy: many people die for reasons that can’t be controlled the medical profession, such as auto accidents, murder, etc., and once you factor out care crashes and homicides, the US ranks number one in worldwide life expectancy!
“One often-heard argument, voiced by the New York Times' Paul Krugman and others, is that America lags behind other countries in crude health outcomes. But such outcomes reflect a mosaic of factors, such as diet, lifestyle, drug use and cultural values. It pains me as a doctor to say this, but health care is just one factor in health.
In The Business of Health, Robert Ohsfeldt and John Schneider factor out intentional and unintentional injuries from life-expectancy statistics and find that Americans who don't die in car crashes or homicides outlive people in any other Western country.
And if we measure a health care system by how well it serves its sick citizens, American medicine excels.
http://www.davepetno.com/blog/index.php?itemid=30

b." The standardized estimate of life expectancy at birth is the mean of the predicted value for each country over the period 1980–99. As shown in table 1-5, the raw (not standardized) mean life expectancy at birth for the United States over this period was 75.3 years, compared to 78.7 years for Japan, 78.0 years for Iceland, and 77.7 years for Sweden. However, after accounting for the unusually high fatal-injury rates in the United States, the estimate of standardized life expectancy at birth is 76.9 years, which is higher than the estimates for any other OECD country." http://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/-the-business-of-health_110115929760.pdf

You really should grow up and stop believing the collectivist's propaganda.


Exactly.....one critic of all those comparisons made the point that the people doing the comparison love them some socialized medicine and put more weight behind countries with socialized systems......also skewing the numbers...
 





Before ObamaCare....the best in the world


How to judge healthcare:
a) life expectancy: many people die for reasons that can’t be controlled the medical profession, such as auto accidents, murder, etc., and once you factor out care crashes and homicides, the US ranks number one in worldwide life expectancy!
“One often-heard argument, voiced by the New York Times' Paul Krugman and others, is that America lags behind other countries in crude health outcomes. But such outcomes reflect a mosaic of factors, such as diet, lifestyle, drug use and cultural values. It pains me as a doctor to say this, but health care is just one factor in health.
In The Business of Health, Robert Ohsfeldt and John Schneider factor out intentional and unintentional injuries from life-expectancy statistics and find that Americans who don't die in car crashes or homicides outlive people in any other Western country.
And if we measure a health care system by how well it serves its sick citizens, American medicine excels.
http://www.davepetno.com/blog/index.php?itemid=30

b." The standardized estimate of life expectancy at birth is the mean of the predicted value for each country over the period 1980–99. As shown in table 1-5, the raw (not standardized) mean life expectancy at birth for the United States over this period was 75.3 years, compared to 78.7 years for Japan, 78.0 years for Iceland, and 77.7 years for Sweden. However, after accounting for the unusually high fatal-injury rates in the United States, the estimate of standardized life expectancy at birth is 76.9 years, which is higher than the estimates for any other OECD country." http://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/-the-business-of-health_110115929760.pdf

You really should grow up and stop believing the collectivist's propaganda.

Bullshit hon, HeritageFoundationCare did nothing to budge the needle at all for the average working american. Most expensive healthcare system in the world, shitty outcomes relative to other advance societies.

Collectivist propaganda, corporate propaganda, yes hon, one must wade through all of it.

America is a wonderful place to be wealthy, no one seriously argues that. And anyone who has healthcare insurance is a collectivist hon, including you.

Ted kennedy started the destruction of the American healthcare system by creating HMOs......

Health Maintenance Organization Act of 1973 - Wikipedia
 



Before ObamaCare....the best in the world


How to judge healthcare:
a) life expectancy: many people die for reasons that can’t be controlled the medical profession, such as auto accidents, murder, etc., and once you factor out care crashes and homicides, the US ranks number one in worldwide life expectancy!
“One often-heard argument, voiced by the New York Times' Paul Krugman and others, is that America lags behind other countries in crude health outcomes. But such outcomes reflect a mosaic of factors, such as diet, lifestyle, drug use and cultural values. It pains me as a doctor to say this, but health care is just one factor in health.
In The Business of Health, Robert Ohsfeldt and John Schneider factor out intentional and unintentional injuries from life-expectancy statistics and find that Americans who don't die in car crashes or homicides outlive people in any other Western country.
And if we measure a health care system by how well it serves its sick citizens, American medicine excels.
http://www.davepetno.com/blog/index.php?itemid=30

b." The standardized estimate of life expectancy at birth is the mean of the predicted value for each country over the period 1980–99. As shown in table 1-5, the raw (not standardized) mean life expectancy at birth for the United States over this period was 75.3 years, compared to 78.7 years for Japan, 78.0 years for Iceland, and 77.7 years for Sweden. However, after accounting for the unusually high fatal-injury rates in the United States, the estimate of standardized life expectancy at birth is 76.9 years, which is higher than the estimates for any other OECD country." http://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/-the-business-of-health_110115929760.pdf

You really should grow up and stop believing the collectivist's propaganda.


Exactly.....one critic of all those comparisons made the point that the people doing the comparison love them some socialized medicine and put more weight behind countries with socialized systems......also skewing the numbers...

So you found some that cling to corporatized predatory medicine, brilliant.
 





Before ObamaCare....the best in the world


How to judge healthcare:
a) life expectancy: many people die for reasons that can’t be controlled the medical profession, such as auto accidents, murder, etc., and once you factor out care crashes and homicides, the US ranks number one in worldwide life expectancy!
“One often-heard argument, voiced by the New York Times' Paul Krugman and others, is that America lags behind other countries in crude health outcomes. But such outcomes reflect a mosaic of factors, such as diet, lifestyle, drug use and cultural values. It pains me as a doctor to say this, but health care is just one factor in health.
In The Business of Health, Robert Ohsfeldt and John Schneider factor out intentional and unintentional injuries from life-expectancy statistics and find that Americans who don't die in car crashes or homicides outlive people in any other Western country.
And if we measure a health care system by how well it serves its sick citizens, American medicine excels.
http://www.davepetno.com/blog/index.php?itemid=30

b." The standardized estimate of life expectancy at birth is the mean of the predicted value for each country over the period 1980–99. As shown in table 1-5, the raw (not standardized) mean life expectancy at birth for the United States over this period was 75.3 years, compared to 78.7 years for Japan, 78.0 years for Iceland, and 77.7 years for Sweden. However, after accounting for the unusually high fatal-injury rates in the United States, the estimate of standardized life expectancy at birth is 76.9 years, which is higher than the estimates for any other OECD country." http://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/-the-business-of-health_110115929760.pdf

You really should grow up and stop believing the collectivist's propaganda.

Bullshit hon, HeritageFoundationCare did nothing to budge the needle at all for the average working american. Most expensive healthcare system in the world, shitty outcomes relative to other advance societies.

Collectivist propaganda, corporate propaganda, yes hon, one must wade through all of it.

America is a wonderful place to be wealthy, no one seriously argues that. And anyone who has healthcare insurance is a collectivist hon, including you.

Ted kennedy started the destruction of the American healthcare system by creating HMOs......

Health Maintenance Organization Act of 1973 - Wikipedia

Same problem as Obama's with the Heritage Foundation's approach; let the industry lobbyists in the room and it's over as far as "the people" are concerned.
 

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