CDZ Bringing a little peace between gun debate sides.

[Skull Pilot]

I don't have a problem with requiring a permit to carry a gun.


It makes it easier to catch a criminal with a gun. No permit then you get arrested for illegal possession of a firearm.

If a criminal is carrying a gun in a no permit state then it's just that much tougher to arrest them unless of course the cop run checks on everyone they see carrying which means they will be wasting time running checks on a lot of people who are legally entitled to carry

actuallly it does't do anything to catch a criminal.....if you are stopped and you are carrying a gun, a cop will run your name and birthdate......they will see if you are a felon or have outstanding warrants...if you do...you can be arrested...if you don't you go on your way.....

So...there is no place in that process where requiring a permit helps detain a felon carrying a gun illegally....but....it does increase the fees, paperwork and risk to a law abiding citizen who has committed no crime...but may not have renewed their permit....so for a paperwork mistake, a normal, law abiding citizen is now a felon......right? They can now lose their job, their freedom and be fined thousands of dollars......for failure to fill out unnecessary paperwork on time...right?

I never felt put out by getting a CCW permit.

Just like I don't get put out if someone asks me for an ID at a voting location

How about in New York...where it can cost big money to get a permit...since you need to hire a lawyer to help you do it? Would you like to have to pay several hundred dollars just to get a permit...?

I don't live in NY and never will.

Should states be shall issue CCW permit states if a person is not a felon? yes they should.
That seems to me to be a matter for a federal law suit. No state has the legal right to violate any constitutional right. Denying people who are legally eligible to carry a weapon the ability to do so is an obvious violation of those constitutional rights.

But there still can and should be a permitting process

Using that same logic, it would be fine to require a "permit" to vote. It would be unconstitutional for both. Why is that so hard to understand? Requiring a permit to exercise a right is the same concept, regardless of the right one is referring to.

No it would be more like proving you are indeed eligible to exercise that right.

We do agree that not all people should be able to buy and or carry guns right?
We do agree that not all people should be allowed to vote right?

 

[oldsoul]

actuallly it does't do anything to catch a criminal.....if you are stopped and you are carrying a gun, a cop will run your name and birthdate......they will see if you are a felon or have outstanding warrants...if you do...you can be arrested...if you don't you go on your way.....

So...there is no place in that process where requiring a permit helps detain a felon carrying a gun illegally....but....it does increase the fees, paperwork and risk to a law abiding citizen who has committed no crime...but may not have renewed their permit....so for a paperwork mistake, a normal, law abiding citizen is now a felon......right? They can now lose their job, their freedom and be fined thousands of dollars......for failure to fill out unnecessary paperwork on time...right?

I never felt put out by getting a CCW permit.

Just like I don't get put out if someone asks me for an ID at a voting location

How about in New York...where it can cost big money to get a permit...since you need to hire a lawyer to help you do it? Would you like to have to pay several hundred dollars just to get a permit...?

I don't live in NY and never will.

Should states be shall issue CCW permit states if a person is not a felon? yes they should.
That seems to me to be a matter for a federal law suit. No state has the legal right to violate any constitutional right. Denying people who are legally eligible to carry a weapon the ability to do so is an obvious violation of those constitutional rights.

But there still can and should be a permitting process

Using that same logic, it would be fine to require a "permit" to vote. It would be unconstitutional for both. Why is that so hard to understand? Requiring a permit to exercise a right is the same concept, regardless of the right one is referring to.

No it would be more like proving you are indeed eligible to exercise that right.

We do agree that not all people should be able to buy and or carry guns right?
We do agree that not all people should be allowed to vote right?

I believe that due process should be utilized to remove anyone's rights. Requiring one to acquire a permit to own/carry a gun is not expecting them to "prove" anything. It is simply requiring them to get a permit to exercise a right, just as a poll tax is requiring one to meet an arbitrary rule to exercise that right. Expecting one to show ID to vote, IMHO, is simply expecting one to "prove" one is eligible to vote at the polling place in question. I would be fine with any means of verifying one resides in said district.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I never felt put out by getting a CCW permit.

Just like I don't get put out if someone asks me for an ID at a voting location

How about in New York...where it can cost big money to get a permit...since you need to hire a lawyer to help you do it? Would you like to have to pay several hundred dollars just to get a permit...?

I don't live in NY and never will.

Should states be shall issue CCW permit states if a person is not a felon? yes they should.
That seems to me to be a matter for a federal law suit. No state has the legal right to violate any constitutional right. Denying people who are legally eligible to carry a weapon the ability to do so is an obvious violation of those constitutional rights.

But there still can and should be a permitting process

Using that same logic, it would be fine to require a "permit" to vote. It would be unconstitutional for both. Why is that so hard to understand? Requiring a permit to exercise a right is the same concept, regardless of the right one is referring to.

No it would be more like proving you are indeed eligible to exercise that right.

We do agree that not all people should be able to buy and or carry guns right?
We do agree that not all people should be allowed to vote right?

I believe that due process should be utilized to remove anyone's rights. Requiring one to acquire a permit to own/carry a gun is not expecting them to "prove" anything. It is simply requiring them to get a permit to exercise a right, just as a poll tax is requiring one to meet an arbitrary rule to exercise that right. Expecting one to show ID to vote, IMHO, is simply expecting one to "prove" one is eligible to vote at the polling place in question. I would be fine with any means of verifying one resides in said district.

I see it as streamlining the process.

I like the fact that my CCW permit entitles me to buy any gun I want with no waiting period.

To me it's exactly the same as showing an ID in order to vote. You have to prove who you are with a birth certificate or some other acceptable paperwork in order to get an ID.

And of course the permit proves something since one has to submit to a background check in order to get one. It proves you are indeed legally eligible to buy and carry a firearm.

 

[hadit]

Missouri just over road a veto by the Governor on the law that will allow citizens to carry guns without permits....called Constitutional Carry......this makes sense since criminals still can't buy, own or carry guns and when caught doing any of those things, they can be arrested. But...to help bring comfort to the anti gun side of the debate...who worry about law abiding citizens carrying guns......even though the statistics show this is not a problem.....here is my proposal...

--to help make sure gun owners own and carry guns safely, let local fire departments or police departments teach basic gun safety in our schools....to consist of the NRA safety points for kids....

They teach children that if they find a gun they should follow 4 steps....

1. Stop.
2. Don't touch.
3. Leave the room/area
4. Find an adult

Simple and effective....

Teaching it in school meets the needs of both sides of the debate...

pro rights....

--fees for gun safety are not an issue.....it is taught to all kids without charge...thereby avoiding the Poll Tax issue when fees are charged to exercise a right

Anti gun ...

Children are taught safety around guns that they will take with them as they grow up...reducing gun accidents and reducing injuries and deaths among all ages...

The 4 steps could be done for K-5 grades.....and for Junior high or middle school...you could add encouraging them to seek proper instruction before using guns.....again..no fee, and. Pro training message is sent, which will also help to reduce gun accidents....

A win-win for all concerned.......

right?

And electives on target shooting and safe gun handling. If we can teach them how to render a penis harmless, we can teach them how to render a gun harmless.

 

[2aguy]

How about in New York...where it can cost big money to get a permit...since you need to hire a lawyer to help you do it? Would you like to have to pay several hundred dollars just to get a permit...?

I don't live in NY and never will.

Should states be shall issue CCW permit states if a person is not a felon? yes they should.
That seems to me to be a matter for a federal law suit. No state has the legal right to violate any constitutional right. Denying people who are legally eligible to carry a weapon the ability to do so is an obvious violation of those constitutional rights.

But there still can and should be a permitting process

Using that same logic, it would be fine to require a "permit" to vote. It would be unconstitutional for both. Why is that so hard to understand? Requiring a permit to exercise a right is the same concept, regardless of the right one is referring to.

No it would be more like proving you are indeed eligible to exercise that right.

We do agree that not all people should be able to buy and or carry guns right?
We do agree that not all people should be allowed to vote right?

I believe that due process should be utilized to remove anyone's rights. Requiring one to acquire a permit to own/carry a gun is not expecting them to "prove" anything. It is simply requiring them to get a permit to exercise a right, just as a poll tax is requiring one to meet an arbitrary rule to exercise that right. Expecting one to show ID to vote, IMHO, is simply expecting one to "prove" one is eligible to vote at the polling place in question. I would be fine with any means of verifying one resides in said district.

I see it as streamlining the process.

I like the fact that my CCW permit entitles me to buy any gun I want with no waiting period.

To me it's exactly the same as showing an ID in order to vote. You have to prove who you are with a birth certificate or some other acceptable paperwork in order to get an ID.

And of course the permit proves something since one has to submit to a background check in order to get one. It proves you are indeed legally eligible to buy and carry a firearm.

The way you do this....just like at the airport....if you want a streamlined process...you go through and get a permit on your own, but it isn't required....just like that special boarding pass where you get a background check and screening and then you don't have to wait.......but it is voluntary, and not having it is not a barrier to flying...it just expedites things.

 

[koshergrl]

I don't have a problem with requiring a permit to carry a gun.


It makes it easier to catch a criminal with a gun. No permit then you get arrested for illegal possession of a firearm.

If a criminal is carrying a gun in a no permit state then it's just that much tougher to arrest them unless of course the cop run checks on everyone they see carrying which means they will be wasting time running checks on a lot of people who are legally entitled to carry

actuallly it does't do anything to catch a criminal.....if you are stopped and you are carrying a gun, a cop will run your name and birthdate......they will see if you are a felon or have outstanding warrants...if you do...you can be arrested...if you don't you go on your way.....

So...there is no place in that process where requiring a permit helps detain a felon carrying a gun illegally....but....it does increase the fees, paperwork and risk to a law abiding citizen who has committed no crime...but may not have renewed their permit....so for a paperwork mistake, a normal, law abiding citizen is now a felon......right? They can now lose their job, their freedom and be fined thousands of dollars......for failure to fill out unnecessary paperwork on time...right?

I never felt put out by getting a CCW permit.

Just like I don't get put out if someone asks me for an ID at a voting location

How about in New York...where it can cost big money to get a permit...since you need to hire a lawyer to help you do it? Would you like to have to pay several hundred dollars just to get a permit...?

I don't live in NY and never will.

Should states be shall issue CCW permit states if a person is not a felon? yes they should.
That seems to me to be a matter for a federal law suit. No state has the legal right to violate any constitutional right. Denying people who are legally eligible to carry a weapon the ability to do so is an obvious violation of those constitutional rights.

But there still can and should be a permitting process

Using that same logic, it would be fine to require a "permit" to vote. It would be unconstitutional for both. Why is that so hard to understand? Requiring a permit to exercise a right is the same concept, regardless of the right one is referring to.

Where is it a right for illegals to vote?

I don't remember seeing that in the constitution.

 

[koshergrl]

In fact, does the constitution even list voting as a *right*?

 

[koshergrl]

All the Constitution guarantees is : The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude

Asking verification of identity isn't a denial or abridging of rights based on race, color, or previous condition of servitude.

So we're good.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Everyone here needs a hunter safety course in order to get their hunting license the first time. Everyone buying a gun for the first time should be required to take a gun safety course

Similarly, women should have to take a sex-ed course before they can have an abortion.

 

[2aguy]

Everyone here needs a hunter safety course in order to get their hunting license the first time. Everyone buying a gun for the first time should be required to take a gun safety course

Similarly, women should have to take a sex-ed course before they can have an abortion.

Or...all women should have to take a class on what an abortion is and how it is done.......before they are allowed to have sex......how about that?