Bring it on.

[DiveCon]

so what in that 1 chapter debunked what I posted? I posted the facts, you posted what you heard. Big difference, like I said it is clear you have no clue what you are talking about, stick to your one liners. Because you fail on this topic, I posted how the sources were unreliable, and how the intelligence was wrapped around the policy. You called it bullshit, what in the filtered NIE that you read proves that? I can tell you are lying, stop embarrassing yourself.

you are the one that needs to stop embarrassing yourself
what you posted was a complete and utter LIE
but then you need to seek out professional help for your ABDS
he only has 6 days left in office
what will you do then?

 

[bk1983]

you are the one that needs to stop embarrassing yourself
what you posted was a complete and utter LIE
but then you need to seek out professional help for your ABDS
he only has 6 days left in office
what will you do then?

You still fail to address the topic, because you can't. You just use your same old loop of blah blah ABDS.. Again for the slow and stupid, what in the NIE disputes what I posted? Second, this is not all Bush's fault, I place the blame more on Rumsfeld and Cheney.

 

[DiveCon]

You still fail to address the topic, because you can't. You just use your same old loop of blah blah ABDS.. Again for the slow and stupid, what in the NIE disputes what I posted? Second, this is not all Bush's fault, I place the blame more on Rumsfeld and Cheney.

Rumsfeld is already gone, and Cheney leaves with Bush
get over it already

 

[Gord]

Prewar intel led congress to the correct conclusion that Saddam Hussein would be a future threat. All congressional members were provided full access to the National Intelligence Estimate which spelled out various intel agencies pros and cons of Iraq as a future threat to America, the Middle East region, and the world. The result was that 71% of congress passed the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002. The emphasis of the authorization was not just that Saddam posed an imminent threat, but that he had in the past posed a threat, and posed a future threat based on his presumed desires to reconstitute his WMD programs and his ties with international terrorism groups and other rogue nations.

In September 2004 the Iraqi Survey Group Duelfer Report included the following:

"[Saddam Hussein] wanted to end sanctions while preserving the capability to reconstitute his weapons of mass destruction (WMD) when sanctions were lifted."

"we have clear evidence of his intent to resume WMD production as soon as sanctions were lifted"

"Saddam did express his intent to retain the intellectual capital developed during the Iraqi Nuclear Program."

"Iraq took steps to conceal key elements of its program and to preserve what it could of the professional capabilities of its nuclear scientific community."

"ISG found a limited number of post—1995 activities that would have aided the reconstitution of the nuclear weapons program once sanctions were lifted."

"Saddam never abandoned his intentions to resume a CW effort when sanctions were lifted and conditions were judged favorable."

"Iraq's historical ability to implement simple solutions to weaponization challenges allowed Iraq to retain the capability to weaponize CW agent when the need arose."

"Iraq Could Maintain CW Competence With Relative Ease"

"ISG judges that Iraq's actions between 1991 and 1996 demonstrate that the state intended to preserve its BW capability and return to a steady, methodical progress toward a mature BW program when and if the opportunity arose."

"Depending on its scale, Iraq could have re—established an elementary BW program within a few weeks to a few months of a decision to do so..."

Charles Duelfer's predecessor, David Kay also agreed with his findings:

"A clandestine network of laboratories and safehouses within the Iraqi Intelligence Service that contained equipment subject to U.N. monitoring and suitable for continuing (chemical and biological weapons) research."

"A prison laboratory complex, possibly used in human testing of (biological weapons) agents, that Iraqi officials . . . were explicitly ordered not to declare to the U.N."

"Reference strains of biological organisms concealed in a scientist's home, one of which can be used to produce biological weapons."

"New research on (biological weapon)-applicable agents . . . and continuing work on ricin and aflatoxin were not declared to the U.N. Documents and equipment, hidden in scientists' homes, that would have been useful in resuming uranium enrichment by centrifuge and electromagnetic isotope separation."

The recent U.S. Senate Select Committee on Intelligence under a Democrat majority released a report in June 2008 called, "Report on Whether Public Statements Regarding Iraq by U.S. Government officials Were Substantiated by Intelligence Information". These were its conclusions:

"Statements by the President, Vice President, Secretary of State and the National Security Advisor regarding possible Iraqi nuclear weapons program were generally substantiated by intelligence community estimates, but did not convey the substantial disagreements that existed in the intelligence community."

"Statements ... regarding Iraq's possession of biological agents, weapons, production capability, and use of mobile biological laboratories were substantiated by intelligence information."

"Statements ... regarding Iraq's possession of chemical weapons were substantiated by intelligence information."

"Statements ... regarding Iraq's possession of weapons of mass destruction were generally substantiated by intelligence information, though many statements made regarding ongoing production prior to late 2002 reflected a higher level of certainty than the intelligence judgments themselves."

"Statements ... regarding Iraqi ballistic missiles were generally substantiated by available intelligence."

"Statements ... that Iraq was developing unmanned aerial vehicles that could be use to deliver chemical or biological weapons were generally substantiated by intelligence information, but did not convey the substantial disagreements or evolving views that existed in the intelligence community."

"Statements ... regarding Iraq's support for terrorist groups other than al-Qa'ida were substantiated by intelligence information."

"Statements that Iraq provided safe haven for Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and other al-Qa'ida-related terrorist members were substantiated by the intelligence assessments."

So basically a Democrat majority, after-the-fact report concludes that prewar "Public Statements Regarding Iraq by U.S. Government officials" "were generally substantiated by intelligence information" available at the time. In other words, congress was not misled by the administration into approving the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002.

In conclusion, the prewar intelligence that suggested that Saddam would be a future threat has been confirmed.

 

[bk1983]

Rumsfeld is already gone, and Cheney leaves with Bush
get over it already

Sorry, but seeing friends die in Iraq gives you a different outlook on things. I am glad it is so easy for you to get over, then again you sacrificed nothing.. I will always hold them accountable..

 

[bk1983]

Prewar intel led congress to the correct conclusion that Saddam Hussein would be a future threat. All congressional members were provided full access to the National Intelligence Estimate which spelled out various intel agencies pros and cons of Iraq as a future threat to America, the Middle East region, and the world. The result was that 71% of congress passed the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002. The emphasis of the authorization was not just that Saddam posed an imminent threat, but that he had in the past posed a threat, and posed a future threat based on his presumed desires to reconstitute his WMD programs and his ties with international terrorism groups and other rogue nations.

In September 2004 the Iraqi Survey Group Duelfer Report included the following:

"[Saddam Hussein] wanted to end sanctions while preserving the capability to reconstitute his weapons of mass destruction (WMD) when sanctions were lifted."

"we have clear evidence of his intent to resume WMD production as soon as sanctions were lifted"

"Saddam did express his intent to retain the intellectual capital developed during the Iraqi Nuclear Program."

"Iraq took steps to conceal key elements of its program and to preserve what it could of the professional capabilities of its nuclear scientific community."

"ISG found a limited number of post—1995 activities that would have aided the reconstitution of the nuclear weapons program once sanctions were lifted."

"Saddam never abandoned his intentions to resume a CW effort when sanctions were lifted and conditions were judged favorable."

"Iraq's historical ability to implement simple solutions to weaponization challenges allowed Iraq to retain the capability to weaponize CW agent when the need arose."

"Iraq Could Maintain CW Competence With Relative Ease"

"ISG judges that Iraq's actions between 1991 and 1996 demonstrate that the state intended to preserve its BW capability and return to a steady, methodical progress toward a mature BW program when and if the opportunity arose."

"Depending on its scale, Iraq could have re—established an elementary BW program within a few weeks to a few months of a decision to do so..."

Charles Duelfer's predecessor, David Kay also agreed with his findings:

"A clandestine network of laboratories and safehouses within the Iraqi Intelligence Service that contained equipment subject to U.N. monitoring and suitable for continuing (chemical and biological weapons) research."

"A prison laboratory complex, possibly used in human testing of (biological weapons) agents, that Iraqi officials . . . were explicitly ordered not to declare to the U.N."

"Reference strains of biological organisms concealed in a scientist's home, one of which can be used to produce biological weapons."

"New research on (biological weapon)-applicable agents . . . and continuing work on ricin and aflatoxin were not declared to the U.N. Documents and equipment, hidden in scientists' homes, that would have been useful in resuming uranium enrichment by centrifuge and electromagnetic isotope separation."

The recent U.S. Senate Select Committee on Intelligence under a Democrat majority released a report in June 2008 called, "Report on Whether Public Statements Regarding Iraq by U.S. Government officials Were Substantiated by Intelligence Information". These were its conclusions:

"Statements by the President, Vice President, Secretary of State and the National Security Advisor regarding possible Iraqi nuclear weapons program were generally substantiated by intelligence community estimates, but did not convey the substantial disagreements that existed in the intelligence community."

"Statements ... regarding Iraq's possession of biological agents, weapons, production capability, and use of mobile biological laboratories were substantiated by intelligence information."

"Statements ... regarding Iraq's possession of chemical weapons were substantiated by intelligence information."

"Statements ... regarding Iraq's possession of weapons of mass destruction were generally substantiated by intelligence information, though many statements made regarding ongoing production prior to late 2002 reflected a higher level of certainty than the intelligence judgments themselves."

"Statements ... regarding Iraqi ballistic missiles were generally substantiated by available intelligence."

"Statements ... that Iraq was developing unmanned aerial vehicles that could be use to deliver chemical or biological weapons were generally substantiated by intelligence information, but did not convey the substantial disagreements or evolving views that existed in the intelligence community."

"Statements ... regarding Iraq's support for terrorist groups other than al-Qa'ida were substantiated by intelligence information."

"Statements that Iraq provided safe haven for Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and other al-Qa'ida-related terrorist members were substantiated by the intelligence assessments."

So basically a Democrat majority, after-the-fact report concludes that prewar "Public Statements Regarding Iraq by U.S. Government officials" "were generally substantiated by intelligence information" available at the time. In other words, congress was not misled by the administration into approving the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002.

In conclusion, the prewar intelligence that suggested that Saddam would be a future threat has been confirmed.

There is over 70,000 pages countering the "statements" the intel you posted was based on. Again the sources of the intel was important, hint "yellowcake" Of course I wouldn't expect you to get it.

 

[Anguille]

I haven't bothered to read this thread but I love the title.
I wish I'd thought of it myself.

 

[bk1983]

The main source of the prewar intelligence

JIM LEHRER: Now, what was this intelligence based on?

DAVID KAY: Well, multiple sources but when it gets right down to it, it was made -- based mostly on the reports of people coming out of Iraq, that is, defectors.

 

[Gord]

There is over 70,000 pages countering the "statements" the intel you posted was based on. Again the sources of the intel was important, hint "yellowcake" Of course I wouldn't expect you to get it.

What I posted were all after the fact reports. The last one is from a majority Democrat senate committee. It specifically studied whether the prewar intel could be "substantiated". The quotes I presented speak for themselves.

So much for your supposed 70,000 pages...

 

[Old Rocks]

Again with the stinking straw man attack. Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11. No one ever claimed he did. But we didnt declare war on our attackers. They were freaking dead when they attacked us. We are going after terror organizations and governments that support them.

This isn't difficult to understand and yet you guys always return to the straw man of Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11 as if it hasnt been addressed again and again.

If that were the case, we would have invaded Saudi Arabia. It has to be addressed again and again because people like yourself lie about it again and again. We went to war on the basis of lies. That is the simple unvarnished truth. The lies eminated from the Oval Office. The war was successful, the military did it's job. Then came the occupation. A complete and total FUBAR, a waste of good soldiers, and national treasure. But Bush and Cheney's good buddies at Haliburton made a multi-billion dollar killing on the blood of over 4200 of this nations sons and daughters. It must be such a prideful thing to be a Bush buttlicker.

 

[bk1983]

What I posted were all after the fact reports. The last one is from a majority Democrat senate committee. It specifically studied whether the prewar intel could be "substantiated". The quotes I presented speak for themselves.

So much for your supposed 70,000 pages...

LMAO.. The intelligence goes back 10 years and 70,000 pages.. You think we just started collecting intel on Iraq after 9/11?

Do me a favor, if your going to engage in a topic at least understand what it is you are debating. The Democrats were just as wrong as everyone else who bought the failed intel. That is the only thing your quotes proved.

 

[Gord]

We went to war on the basis of lies.

I guess you missed my post:

Prewar intel led congress to the correct conclusion that Saddam Hussein would be a future threat. All congressional members were provided full access to the National Intelligence Estimate which spelled out various intel agencies pros and cons of Iraq as a future threat to America, the Middle East region, and the world. The result was that 71% of congress passed the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002. The emphasis of the authorization was not just that Saddam posed an imminent threat, but that he had in the past posed a threat, and posed a future threat based on his presumed desires to reconstitute his WMD programs and his ties with international terrorism groups and other rogue nations.

In September 2004 the Iraqi Survey Group Duelfer Report included the following:

"[Saddam Hussein] wanted to end sanctions while preserving the capability to reconstitute his weapons of mass destruction (WMD) when sanctions were lifted."

"we have clear evidence of his intent to resume WMD production as soon as sanctions were lifted"

"Saddam did express his intent to retain the intellectual capital developed during the Iraqi Nuclear Program."

"Iraq took steps to conceal key elements of its program and to preserve what it could of the professional capabilities of its nuclear scientific community."

"ISG found a limited number of post—1995 activities that would have aided the reconstitution of the nuclear weapons program once sanctions were lifted."

"Saddam never abandoned his intentions to resume a CW effort when sanctions were lifted and conditions were judged favorable."

"Iraq's historical ability to implement simple solutions to weaponization challenges allowed Iraq to retain the capability to weaponize CW agent when the need arose."

"Iraq Could Maintain CW Competence With Relative Ease"

"ISG judges that Iraq's actions between 1991 and 1996 demonstrate that the state intended to preserve its BW capability and return to a steady, methodical progress toward a mature BW program when and if the opportunity arose."

"Depending on its scale, Iraq could have re—established an elementary BW program within a few weeks to a few months of a decision to do so..."

Charles Duelfer's predecessor, David Kay also agreed with his findings:

"A clandestine network of laboratories and safehouses within the Iraqi Intelligence Service that contained equipment subject to U.N. monitoring and suitable for continuing (chemical and biological weapons) research."

"A prison laboratory complex, possibly used in human testing of (biological weapons) agents, that Iraqi officials . . . were explicitly ordered not to declare to the U.N."

"Reference strains of biological organisms concealed in a scientist's home, one of which can be used to produce biological weapons."

"New research on (biological weapon)-applicable agents . . . and continuing work on ricin and aflatoxin were not declared to the U.N. Documents and equipment, hidden in scientists' homes, that would have been useful in resuming uranium enrichment by centrifuge and electromagnetic isotope separation."

The recent U.S. Senate Select Committee on Intelligence under a Democrat majority released a report in June 2008 called, "Report on Whether Public Statements Regarding Iraq by U.S. Government officials Were Substantiated by Intelligence Information". These were its conclusions:

"Statements by the President, Vice President, Secretary of State and the National Security Advisor regarding possible Iraqi nuclear weapons program were generally substantiated by intelligence community estimates, but did not convey the substantial disagreements that existed in the intelligence community."

"Statements ... regarding Iraq's possession of biological agents, weapons, production capability, and use of mobile biological laboratories were substantiated by intelligence information."

"Statements ... regarding Iraq's possession of chemical weapons were substantiated by intelligence information."

"Statements ... regarding Iraq's possession of weapons of mass destruction were generally substantiated by intelligence information, though many statements made regarding ongoing production prior to late 2002 reflected a higher level of certainty than the intelligence judgments themselves."

"Statements ... regarding Iraqi ballistic missiles were generally substantiated by available intelligence."

"Statements ... that Iraq was developing unmanned aerial vehicles that could be use to deliver chemical or biological weapons were generally substantiated by intelligence information, but did not convey the substantial disagreements or evolving views that existed in the intelligence community."

"Statements ... regarding Iraq's support for terrorist groups other than al-Qa'ida were substantiated by intelligence information."

"Statements that Iraq provided safe haven for Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and other al-Qa'ida-related terrorist members were substantiated by the intelligence assessments."

So basically a Democrat majority, after-the-fact report concludes that prewar "Public Statements Regarding Iraq by U.S. Government officials" "were generally substantiated by intelligence information" available at the time. In other words, congress was not misled by the administration into approving the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002.

In conclusion, the prewar intelligence that suggested that Saddam would be a future threat has been confirmed.

 

[bk1983]

I find it funny you look to politicians for the truth in this matter. The fact is the Democrats were just as wrong, do you honestly expect them to admit they bought faulty intelligence?

 

[Gord]

LMAO.. The intelligence goes back 10 years and 70,000 pages.. You think we just started collecting intel on Iraq after 9/11?

Do me a favor, if your going to engage in a topic at least understand what it is you are debating. The Democrats were just as wrong as everyone else who bought the failed intel. That is the only thing your quotes proved.

It was the prewar intel that was examined and judged to be "substantiated". The case is closed.

 

[Gord]

I find it funny you look to politicians for the truth in this matter. The fact is the Democrats were just as wrong, do you honestly expect them to admit they bought faulty intelligence?

So you are the only one that knows the truth, huh? And the Democrats are covering for Bush - uh huh.

Watch out for black helicopters...

 

[Red Dawn]

Go ahead bring it on, create a commission to use political power to arrest and harrass former public officials.

It will inspire revolution....

Oh man, that was great! A real gut buster!

We both know that won't happen.

Republicans are too old, too white, and too conservative to do anything but complain and whine from the safety of their keyboards.

Civil disobedience and protests from republicans to defend the honor of bush?

i think not!

 

[pfife]

Oh man, that was great! A real gut buster!

We both know that won't happen.

Republicans are too old, too white, and too conservative to do anything but complain and whine from the safety of their keyboards.

Civil disobedience and protests from republicans to defend the honor of bush?

i think not!

how dare you challenge the resolve of the 101st fighting keyboardists!

The irony of Republicans revolting because the government.... followed the rule of law.... is hilarious.

 

[bk1983]

So you are the only one that knows the truth, huh? And the Democrats are covering for Bush - uh huh.

Watch out for black helicopters...

No I am not the only one. Maybe if you got your head out of your ass and did some research of your own then you too could find out. For starters try and google Scott Ritter former chief un inspector and Marine.

Secondly the democrats were not covering for Bush, they were covering their own ass. This is not a conspiracy theory you dipshit, but rather intelligence reports based on faulty sources.

There’s no doubt Iraq hasn’t fully complied with its disarmament obligations as set forth by the Security Council in its resolution. But on the other hand, since 1998 Iraq has been fundamentally disarmed: 90-95% of Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction capacity has been verifiably eliminated... We have to remember that this missing 5-10% doesn’t necessarily constitute a threat... It constitutes bits and pieces of a weapons program which in its totality doesn’t amount to much, but which is still prohibited... We can’t give Iraq a clean bill of health, therefore we can’t close the book on their weapons of mass destruction. But simultaneously, we can’t reasonably talk about Iraqi non-compliance as representing a de-facto retention of a prohibited capacity worthy of war. (page 28)

We eliminated the nuclear program, and for Iraq to have reconstituted it would require undertaking activities that would have been eminently detectable by intelligence services. (page 32)

If Iraq were producing [chemical] weapons today, we’d have proof, pure and simple. (page 37)

[A]s of December 1998 we had no evidence Iraq had retained biological weapons, nor that they were working on any. In fact, we had a lot of evidence to suggest Iraq was in compliance. (page 46)[7]

 

[DiveCon]

No I am not the only one. Maybe if you got your head out of your ass and did some research of your own then you too could find out. For starters try and google Scott Ritter former chief un inspector and Marine.

Secondly the democrats were not covering for Bush, they were covering their own ass. This is not a conspiracy theory you dipshit, but rather intelligence reports based on faulty sources.

There’s no doubt Iraq hasn’t fully complied with its disarmament obligations as set forth by the Security Council in its resolution. But on the other hand, since 1998 Iraq has been fundamentally disarmed: 90-95% of Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction capacity has been verifiably eliminated... We have to remember that this missing 5-10% doesn’t necessarily constitute a threat... It constitutes bits and pieces of a weapons program which in its totality doesn’t amount to much, but which is still prohibited... We can’t give Iraq a clean bill of health, therefore we can’t close the book on their weapons of mass destruction. But simultaneously, we can’t reasonably talk about Iraqi non-compliance as representing a de-facto retention of a prohibited capacity worthy of war. (page 28)

We eliminated the nuclear program, and for Iraq to have reconstituted it would require undertaking activities that would have been eminently detectable by intelligence services. (page 32)

If Iraq were producing [chemical] weapons today, we’d have proof, pure and simple. (page 37)

[A]s of December 1998 we had no evidence Iraq had retained biological weapons, nor that they were working on any. In fact, we had a lot of evidence to suggest Iraq was in compliance. (page 46)[7]

THIS Scott Ritter?

CNN.com - Ex-arms inspector, war foe Ritter confirms 2001 arrest - Jan. 23, 2003

 

[Gord]

No I am not the only one. Maybe if you got your head out of your ass and did some research of your own then you too could find out. For starters try and google Scott Ritter former chief un inspector and Marine.

Secondly the democrats were not covering for Bush, they were covering their own ass. This is not a conspiracy theory you dipshit, but rather intelligence reports based on faulty sources.

There’s no doubt Iraq hasn’t fully complied with its disarmament obligations as set forth by the Security Council in its resolution. But on the other hand, since 1998 Iraq has been fundamentally disarmed: 90-95% of Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction capacity has been verifiably eliminated... We have to remember that this missing 5-10% doesn’t necessarily constitute a threat... It constitutes bits and pieces of a weapons program which in its totality doesn’t amount to much, but which is still prohibited... We can’t give Iraq a clean bill of health, therefore we can’t close the book on their weapons of mass destruction. But simultaneously, we can’t reasonably talk about Iraqi non-compliance as representing a de-facto retention of a prohibited capacity worthy of war. (page 28)

We eliminated the nuclear program, and for Iraq to have reconstituted it would require undertaking activities that would have been eminently detectable by intelligence services. (page 32)

If Iraq were producing [chemical] weapons today, we’d have proof, pure and simple. (page 37)

[A]s of December 1998 we had no evidence Iraq had retained biological weapons, nor that they were working on any. In fact, we had a lot of evidence to suggest Iraq was in compliance. (page 46)[7]

You go ahead and keep whipping that dead, rotting, stinking corpse of a horse. I'm moving on.

I hear Safeway has a special on tinfoil - maybe you should stock up...