Bring 'Em Home?

[Shogun]

if their morale is truly low, they are a danger to themselves and their fellow soldiers.

We either need to boost their morale with obvious support, or bring them home.

Without a concise objective the only option is to bring them home. "fighting a war on trrrorrrism" is about as fruitful as that ole vietnam joke about halting the influence of communism. Ironically, America now sucks at the economic teet of Chinese Commies. go figure.

"obvious support" is just lip service. We could send the full order of soldiers now and we'd still be in this same situation next summer.

Are you a competent military strategist? If you are, then I would support your summation.

I know that the field generals and the 4 starers are trained military strategists and they believe otherwise.

So who should I believe.....hmmmmm

You can believe NOW whomever you want to believe just like you did 5 years ago when you used the same silly excuse for perpetuating a failed conflict. We had a tangible objective in ww1 and 2. But, conversely, look how Vietnam turned out when the call to war was based on similar bullshit as which we saw in a post-9/11 America. Again, you can believe what you want to... but, then... you'll be believing it next summer and the summer after that as you continue to perpetuate failure.

 

[Si modo]

Obama is not to blame....but his failure to act quickly may prove to be detrimental.

So no...I do not blame Obama for the state of the war....But I will blame him if he refuses to act quickly...and so far he is dragging his feet.

Amazing how the apologists take this obvious fact as an affront to the adored one. It's BHO's inaction that is the problem.

No it's not. ....

That's my complaint and I'm confident that I am much more of a credible authority on my views than you are on my views.

 

[Shogun]

Amazing how the apologists take this obvious fact as an affront to the adored one. It's BHO's inaction that is the problem.

No it's not. It's the original failure to actually define success above bullshit election year mantras which are keeping or mission in Afghan looking like a spinning compass. Praytell, lets hear YOUR solution without relying upon silly little blame Obama talking points. Let's see if YOU have anything to offer besides greek chorus reactions now that the republican president's coast is clear.

I regurgitate wht those that are experts in their field say. I do not claim to know better.

The generals on the ground, wuith all of the intel, have my faith.

Obama has probably never played stratego....

I put my money on the generals over you AND me.

the same generals who have yet to produce that big pie that you keep thinking is just around the corner. Hell, were it up to people like you we'd STILL be in vietnam right now. STILL.

I tellya.. nothing says trite like appealing to authority after those circled and arrowed "mobile chem labs" turned out to be a bunch of nothing.

 

[Si modo]

No it's not. It's the original failure to actually define success above bullshit election year mantras which are keeping or mission in Afghan looking like a spinning compass. Praytell, lets hear YOUR solution without relying upon silly little blame Obama talking points. Let's see if YOU have anything to offer besides greek chorus reactions now that the republican president's coast is clear.

I regurgitate wht those that are experts in their field say. I do not claim to know better.

The generals on the ground, wuith all of the intel, have my faith.

Obama has probably never played stratego....

I put my money on the generals over you AND me.

the same generals who have yet to produce that big pie that you keep thinking is just around the corner. Hell, were it up to people like you we'd STILL be in vietnam right now. STILL.

I tellya.. nothing says trite like appealing to authority after those circled and arrowed "mobile chem labs" turned out to be a bunch of nothing.

OMG, the inanity. There is no 'appeal to authority' fallacy when one appeals to the field of expertize of that authority.

 

[goldcatt]

From my limited understanding of the remaining objectives - I'd say bring 'em home. It's possible that someone could convince that there are some very legitimate objectives remaining that we we can achieve, then I reserve the right to change my mind.

But the "inaction" of the POTUS is certainly not a problem. There has been no "dragging of feet" just repeated increases of support. More than 100% increase in nine months and suddenly - if he doesn't act on scuttlebutt rather than waiting for the formal request and the review - he's "dragging his feet"?????
Sorry gotta call bullshit on that.

I'm coming more and more to this same realization regarding what to do with the troops. The more I learn, the more I realize we lost our chance to pursue the real prime objectives. And I have no desire to go the way the Soviets did there, or reap the unintended consequences - again - down the road.

 

[Oldandtired]

No it's not. It's the original failure to actually define success above bullshit election year mantras which are keeping or mission in Afghan looking like a spinning compass. Praytell, lets hear YOUR solution without relying upon silly little blame Obama talking points. Let's see if YOU have anything to offer besides greek chorus reactions now that the republican president's coast is clear.

I regurgitate wht those that are experts in their field say. I do not claim to know better.

The generals on the ground, wuith all of the intel, have my faith.

Obama has probably never played stratego....

I put my money on the generals over you AND me.

the same generals who have yet to produce that big pie that you keep thinking is just around the corner. Hell, were it up to people like you we'd STILL be in vietnam right now. STILL.

I tellya.. nothing says trite like appealing to authority after those circled and arrowed "mobile chem labs" turned out to be a bunch of nothing.

You are one strange poster...up top me we would still be in Vietnam....jeez....2 tours there was enough for me thank you.

Pie in the sky? I know squat about afghansitan...strictly what I hear on the news...certainly not enough to make a decision.....so I support the field generals and what they suggest?

Huh? This is not a mature approach?

 

[Shogun]

Amazing how the apologists take this obvious fact as an affront to the adored one. It's BHO's inaction that is the problem.

No it's not. ....

That's my complaint and I'm confident that I am much more of a credible authority on my views than you are on my views.

Your complaint is baseless tripe. You might as well be bitching about the hot water coming out of your faucet by kicking the dog. Indeed, you may very well be a Doctor of Stupidity but that doesn't make blaming Obama any more valid than it already isn't.

 

[Shogun]

I regurgitate wht those that are experts in their field say. I do not claim to know better.

The generals on the ground, wuith all of the intel, have my faith.

Obama has probably never played stratego....

I put my money on the generals over you AND me.

the same generals who have yet to produce that big pie that you keep thinking is just around the corner. Hell, were it up to people like you we'd STILL be in vietnam right now. STILL.

I tellya.. nothing says trite like appealing to authority after those circled and arrowed "mobile chem labs" turned out to be a bunch of nothing.

OMG, the inanity. There is no 'appeal to authority' fallacy when one appeals to the field of expertize of that authority.

yea! given the track records of those who've been appealed to! Mobile Chem Lab, anyone? It's ONLY been over 5 fucking years since we've invaded the mid east!

 

[Si modo]

the same generals who have yet to produce that big pie that you keep thinking is just around the corner. Hell, were it up to people like you we'd STILL be in vietnam right now. STILL.

I tellya.. nothing says trite like appealing to authority after those circled and arrowed "mobile chem labs" turned out to be a bunch of nothing.

OMG, the inanity. There is no 'appeal to authority' fallacy when one appeals to the field of expertize of that authority.

yea! given the track records of those who've been appealed to! Mobile Chem Lab, anyone? It's ONLY been over 5 fucking years since we've invaded the mid east!

As the topic is Afghanistan/troop morale/reasons for it, I can only conclude you have a serious case of ADD. Focus.

 

[Shogun]

OMG, the inanity. There is no 'appeal to authority' fallacy when one appeals to the field of expertize of that authority.

yea! given the track records of those who've been appealed to! Mobile Chem Lab, anyone? It's ONLY been over 5 fucking years since we've invaded the mid east!

As the topic is Afghanistan/troop morale/reasons for it, I can only conclude you have a serious case of ADD. Focus.

as the topic is the DIRECT product of everything i'm posting I can only conclude that you have a scorching case of the brain herpes. Maybe if you start chopping up and sniffing valtrex...

Like i said above, let's see YOUR strategy since clearly perpetuating the status quo will only bring this conversation back around next summer.

 

[Wicked Jester]

Does Obama' actions on this issue seriously surprise anybody?

After all, this is a man who vehemently said a surge in Iraq would never work. I believe he said it was impossible.
This is a man with no executive experience, and virtually no experience EVER running anything.
This is a man who comes from a deep seated culture of political corruption. In chicago, it's all about politics, and the greasing of politicians hands.
This is a man who is now obviously playing politics with our troops lives. Doesn't want to piss off his far left base, after all. It just might cost him votes in '12.
This is a man who decided to fly off to Copenhagen while his ground commanders were left hanging. It's quite obvious that he was more interested in trying to appease his fellow corrupt political cronies in Chicago, then he was in staying stateside and dealing with the issue.
This is a man who held off a conference with his commanders and members of congress and senate in order to hold a dog and pony show press conference about his floundering healthcare proposal.

When is this idiot going to pay the Wizard a visit and ask him for some balls?
When is he just going to stand up to Biden and Pelosi and very firmly state, "Enough already, I'm tired of hearing from you two. I'm commiting those troops RIGHT NOW. Get the fuck outta my face!"?
As long as he chooses to play politics, it will never happen!

 

[Si modo]

Does Obama' actions on this issue seriously surprise anybody?

After all, this is a man who vehemently said a surge in Iraq would never work. I believe he said it was impossible.
This is a man with no executive experience, and virtually no experience EVER running anything.
This is a man who comes from a deep seated culture of political corruption. In chicago, it's all about politics, and the greasing of politicians hands.
This is a man who is now obviously playing politics with our troops lives. Doesn't want to piss off his far left base, after all. It just might cost him votes in '12.
This is a man who decided to fly off to Copenhagen while his ground commanders were left hanging. It's quite obvious that he was more interested in trying to appease his fellow corrupt political cronies in Chicago, then he was in staying stateside and dealing with the issue.
This is a man who held off a conference with his commanders and members of congress and senate in order to hold a dog and pony show press conference about his floundering healthcare proposal.

When is this idiot going to pay the Wizard a visit and ask him for some balls?
When is he just going to stand up to Biden and Pelosi and very firmly state, "Enough already, I'm tired of hearing from you two. I'm commiting those troops RIGHT NOW. Get the fuck outta my face!"?
As long as he chooses to play politics, it will never happen!

Agreed. This is HIS job. HE needs to act.

It's all so surreal, too. Those who are apologists are defending a low quality product.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Bush gave Clinton and our enemies a lot of cover in Iraq.

He never pursued Al Qaeda's link to OKC, he had NTSB Whitewash TWA800 and he gave the Russians plenty of time to move their stuff out of Iraq. Bush never wanted to tie the Russians to Iraq too closely so he let a lot of their involvement pass without notice.

 

[Oldandtired]

Does Obama' actions on this issue seriously surprise anybody?

After all, this is a man who vehemently said a surge in Iraq would never work. I believe he said it was impossible.
This is a man with no executive experience, and virtually no experience EVER running anything.
This is a man who comes from a deep seated culture of political corruption. In chicago, it's all about politics, and the greasing of politicians hands.
This is a man who is now obviously playing politics with our troops lives. Doesn't want to piss off his far left base, after all. It just might cost him votes in '12.
This is a man who decided to fly off to Copenhagen while his ground commanders were left hanging. It's quite obvious that he was more interested in trying to appease his fellow corrupt political cronies in Chicago, then he was in staying stateside and dealing with the issue.
This is a man who held off a conference with his commanders and members of congress and senate in order to hold a dog and pony show press conference about his floundering healthcare proposal.

When is this idiot going to pay the Wizard a visit and ask him for some balls?
When is he just going to stand up to Biden and Pelosi and very firmly state, "Enough already, I'm tired of hearing from you two. I'm commiting those troops RIGHT NOW. Get the fuck outta my face!"?
As long as he chooses to play politics, it will never happen!

Agreed. This is HIS job. HE needs to act.

It's all so surreal, too. Those who are apologists are defending a low quality product.

Yes...a low quality product that since the day he hit the campaign trail he had plastered all over his face "I am a crap shoot"...and now that he has made many (too many) mistakes, he is given a free pass by his supporters....and they call us whiners.

Go figure.

 

[Shogun]

Does Obama' actions on this issue seriously surprise anybody?

After all, this is a man who vehemently said a surge in Iraq would never work. I believe he said it was impossible.
This is a man with no executive experience, and virtually no experience EVER running anything.
This is a man who comes from a deep seated culture of political corruption. In chicago, it's all about politics, and the greasing of politicians hands.
This is a man who is now obviously playing politics with our troops lives. Doesn't want to piss off his far left base, after all. It just might cost him votes in '12.
This is a man who decided to fly off to Copenhagen while his ground commanders were left hanging. It's quite obvious that he was more interested in trying to appease his fellow corrupt political cronies in Chicago, then he was in staying stateside and dealing with the issue.
This is a man who held off a conference with his commanders and members of congress and senate in order to hold a dog and pony show press conference about his floundering healthcare proposal.

When is this idiot going to pay the Wizard a visit and ask him for some balls?
When is he just going to stand up to Biden and Pelosi and very firmly state, "Enough already, I'm tired of hearing from you two. I'm commiting those troops RIGHT NOW. Get the fuck outta my face!"?
As long as he chooses to play politics, it will never happen!

that surge SURE DID WORK! Just look at Iraq now... a bastion of peace and stability. Yup. We probably won't be talking about why we are still in Iraq in three months. Nope. the SURGE solved that little tiddy!

 

[Oldandtired]

Does Obama' actions on this issue seriously surprise anybody?

After all, this is a man who vehemently said a surge in Iraq would never work. I believe he said it was impossible.
This is a man with no executive experience, and virtually no experience EVER running anything.
This is a man who comes from a deep seated culture of political corruption. In chicago, it's all about politics, and the greasing of politicians hands.
This is a man who is now obviously playing politics with our troops lives. Doesn't want to piss off his far left base, after all. It just might cost him votes in '12.
This is a man who decided to fly off to Copenhagen while his ground commanders were left hanging. It's quite obvious that he was more interested in trying to appease his fellow corrupt political cronies in Chicago, then he was in staying stateside and dealing with the issue.
This is a man who held off a conference with his commanders and members of congress and senate in order to hold a dog and pony show press conference about his floundering healthcare proposal.

When is this idiot going to pay the Wizard a visit and ask him for some balls?
When is he just going to stand up to Biden and Pelosi and very firmly state, "Enough already, I'm tired of hearing from you two. I'm commiting those troops RIGHT NOW. Get the fuck outta my face!"?
As long as he chooses to play politics, it will never happen!

that surge SURE DID WORK! Just look at Iraq now... a bastion of peace and stability. Yup. We probably won't be talking about why we are still in Iraq in three months. Nope. the SURGE solved that little tiddy!

wow...you support "assumption" as fact and declare fact as false.

jeez....

 

[Shogun]

Does Obama' actions on this issue seriously surprise anybody?

After all, this is a man who vehemently said a surge in Iraq would never work. I believe he said it was impossible.
This is a man with no executive experience, and virtually no experience EVER running anything.
This is a man who comes from a deep seated culture of political corruption. In chicago, it's all about politics, and the greasing of politicians hands.
This is a man who is now obviously playing politics with our troops lives. Doesn't want to piss off his far left base, after all. It just might cost him votes in '12.
This is a man who decided to fly off to Copenhagen while his ground commanders were left hanging. It's quite obvious that he was more interested in trying to appease his fellow corrupt political cronies in Chicago, then he was in staying stateside and dealing with the issue.
This is a man who held off a conference with his commanders and members of congress and senate in order to hold a dog and pony show press conference about his floundering healthcare proposal.

When is this idiot going to pay the Wizard a visit and ask him for some balls?
When is he just going to stand up to Biden and Pelosi and very firmly state, "Enough already, I'm tired of hearing from you two. I'm commiting those troops RIGHT NOW. Get the fuck outta my face!"?
As long as he chooses to play politics, it will never happen!

Agreed. This is HIS job. HE needs to act.

It's all so surreal, too. Those who are apologists are defending a low quality product.

YOU might think so. But, hey, like I said originally.. If rolling around in the dead husks of America military for the sake of cheap talking points works for you then enjoy your ripe smell.

 

[Si modo]

Does Obama' actions on this issue seriously surprise anybody?

After all, this is a man who vehemently said a surge in Iraq would never work. I believe he said it was impossible.
This is a man with no executive experience, and virtually no experience EVER running anything.
This is a man who comes from a deep seated culture of political corruption. In chicago, it's all about politics, and the greasing of politicians hands.
This is a man who is now obviously playing politics with our troops lives. Doesn't want to piss off his far left base, after all. It just might cost him votes in '12.
This is a man who decided to fly off to Copenhagen while his ground commanders were left hanging. It's quite obvious that he was more interested in trying to appease his fellow corrupt political cronies in Chicago, then he was in staying stateside and dealing with the issue.
This is a man who held off a conference with his commanders and members of congress and senate in order to hold a dog and pony show press conference about his floundering healthcare proposal.

When is this idiot going to pay the Wizard a visit and ask him for some balls?
When is he just going to stand up to Biden and Pelosi and very firmly state, "Enough already, I'm tired of hearing from you two. I'm commiting those troops RIGHT NOW. Get the fuck outta my face!"?
As long as he chooses to play politics, it will never happen!

Agreed. This is HIS job. HE needs to act.

It's all so surreal, too. Those who are apologists are defending a low quality product.

Yes...a low quality product that since the day he hit the campaign trail he had plastered all over his face "I am a crap shoot"...and now that he has made many (too many) mistakes, he is given a free pass by his supporters....and they call us whiners.

Go figure.

We dare not challenge the close-minded. Opening their small world challenges their comfort zone of adoration.

 

[Shogun]

Does Obama' actions on this issue seriously surprise anybody?

After all, this is a man who vehemently said a surge in Iraq would never work. I believe he said it was impossible.
This is a man with no executive experience, and virtually no experience EVER running anything.
This is a man who comes from a deep seated culture of political corruption. In chicago, it's all about politics, and the greasing of politicians hands.
This is a man who is now obviously playing politics with our troops lives. Doesn't want to piss off his far left base, after all. It just might cost him votes in '12.
This is a man who decided to fly off to Copenhagen while his ground commanders were left hanging. It's quite obvious that he was more interested in trying to appease his fellow corrupt political cronies in Chicago, then he was in staying stateside and dealing with the issue.
This is a man who held off a conference with his commanders and members of congress and senate in order to hold a dog and pony show press conference about his floundering healthcare proposal.

When is this idiot going to pay the Wizard a visit and ask him for some balls?
When is he just going to stand up to Biden and Pelosi and very firmly state, "Enough already, I'm tired of hearing from you two. I'm commiting those troops RIGHT NOW. Get the fuck outta my face!"?
As long as he chooses to play politics, it will never happen!

that surge SURE DID WORK! Just look at Iraq now... a bastion of peace and stability. Yup. We probably won't be talking about why we are still in Iraq in three months. Nope. the SURGE solved that little tiddy!

wow...you support "assumption" as fact and declare fact as false.

jeez....

Praytell, mr FACT. Are you confident that the stated surge will keep us from talking about continued military deaths in Iraq? come on, now. don't be shy about making statements that are tougher to wiggle out from under than your presidential vote 5 years ago.

 

[Oldandtired]

Does Obama' actions on this issue seriously surprise anybody?

After all, this is a man who vehemently said a surge in Iraq would never work. I believe he said it was impossible.
This is a man with no executive experience, and virtually no experience EVER running anything.
This is a man who comes from a deep seated culture of political corruption. In chicago, it's all about politics, and the greasing of politicians hands.
This is a man who is now obviously playing politics with our troops lives. Doesn't want to piss off his far left base, after all. It just might cost him votes in '12.
This is a man who decided to fly off to Copenhagen while his ground commanders were left hanging. It's quite obvious that he was more interested in trying to appease his fellow corrupt political cronies in Chicago, then he was in staying stateside and dealing with the issue.
This is a man who held off a conference with his commanders and members of congress and senate in order to hold a dog and pony show press conference about his floundering healthcare proposal.

When is this idiot going to pay the Wizard a visit and ask him for some balls?
When is he just going to stand up to Biden and Pelosi and very firmly state, "Enough already, I'm tired of hearing from you two. I'm commiting those troops RIGHT NOW. Get the fuck outta my face!"?
As long as he chooses to play politics, it will never happen!

Agreed. This is HIS job. HE needs to act.

It's all so surreal, too. Those who are apologists are defending a low quality product.

YOU might think so. But, hey, like I said originally.. If rolling around in the dead husks of America military for the sake of cheap talking points works for you then enjoy your ripe smell.

So then I assume you believe it is best not to speak our minds.....or be prepared to be called racists...or in this case.....politicizing the blood of our fallen....

So exactly when should we speak our minds?

Dont answer it......I am really not interested in your opinion anymore...and it is strictly a rhetorical question anyway.