Bring 'Em Home?

[Shogun]

The problem is that YOU people threw American troops into a fucking firepit without any clear objective besides "win the war on terrorism". Which, as you've been told, means jack and shit. You people hide behind mantras and gop talking points when Bush is in office and then act like martyrs when Obama can't magically snap his fingers and win the "war on trrrrorrrrrrsm". So, in fact, I'd say YES bring them back home. Bring those in Iraq back home as well. Until you sorry bastards can defend your own war-hawkishness spare me your hilarious bullshit trying to pin the failures of the mid east fronts on Obama.


go find Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz now, motherfuckers.

Making such sweeping and generalized pronouncements isn't typically a wise decision. Not everyone in this thread supported Bush or the War on Terrorism. I agree that we need to get out of Iraq, as well as every other country we currently occupy.

the very same people trying to pin this shit on Obama in this thread are the exact same people who was busy talking about trrrrrorrrrsts in 2004. In this company I am really not too concerned with their opinion of what a wise decision is.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

The article is accurate... The men in Afghanistan are between the a rock and a hard place.

They face a determined insurgency; which has them pinned against an administration which threatens them with prison if they violate the Rules of Engagement which prevent them from firing upon the enemy that is firing upon them, until they receive permission to fire from their Chain of Command; what's more is that US air superiority is now nearly worthless; as it is now next to impossible to get air support... due to the enemy having successfully used the western media to report that US Air power is killig 'innocent' people.

The US should pull our forces from Afghanistan, until such time that either free elections remove the Leftist insurgency presently occupying American governance or failing that, other means effectively provide for same.

The fact is that US troops are being asked to do the impossible... they're trapped between a determined enemy and a duplicitous evil.

To say nothing of the ongoing attacks by this administration against our CIA operatives as well.

The message to those serving on the front lines is one of "don't mess up or we (your own country) is going to get you".

Is it any wonder then that morale is plummetting?

I have to believe that Obama has some semblance of compassion for these soldiers - he may have zero experience in such matters, but I don't believe him to be so incompetent and uncaring as to not realize something must be done quickly one way or the other regarding Afghanistan.

I hope...

There's no means for 'incompetence' to suffice as an excuse... Any American could be an outstanding President/CinC... and NO AMERICAN could be taking such a position as this subversive Marxist fuck.

 

[Sinatra]

Clearly a White House in chaos over this issue....

The liberal Democrats want to end the conflict.

VP Biden calls for a scaled down version.

Obama indicating 10,000 more troops - far below what McChrystal says is needed to win.

Are those 10,000 some form of political sacrifice to shore up political support heading into the 2010 elections?

GODDAMIT.

____


Report: Obama Rules Out ‘Biden Option’ on Afghanistan
Seeks to Reassure Congress That Afghan Focus Won't Narrow

by Jason Ditz, October 07, 2009
Email This | Print This | Share This | Comment | Antiwar Forum

In a meeting designed to reassure the most hawkish elements of Congress that the war in Afghanistan isn’t going to undergo any sort of radical change, President Obama has reportedly assured that the so-called “Biden Option” is officially off the table.

A long time advocate of war in Afghanistan, and indeed most everywhere else, Vice President Joe Biden has reportedly come to the conclusion that the disastrous war in Afghanistan is no longer worth the effort and has been advocating more scaled back goals and a refocusing of attacks along the Pakistani border.

Though a growing number of Congressional Democrats object to the McChrystal plan of adding another 45,000 troops, and the New York Times is reporting that there is growing support for the Biden position, the administration has sought to assure that it isn’t an either-or proposition and that Biden’s calls to escalate drone strikes might yet be implemented in addition to a ground escalation.

It was only a few months ago that the Obama Administration had insisted that the 21,000 troops they already added was all that would be considered in 2009, but a worsening war is increasing pressure on the president to double down and he is widely expected to add at least another 10,000 troops in the short term.


Report: Obama Rules Out ‘Biden Option’ on Afghanistan -- News from Antiwar.com

 

[Intense]

The article is accurate... The men in Afghanistan are between the a rock and a hard place.

They face a determined insurgency; which has them pinned against an administration which threatens them with prison if they violate the Rules of Engagement which prevent them from firing upon the enemy that is firing upon them, until they receive permission to fire from their Chain of Command; what's more is that US air superiority is now nearly worthless; as it is now next to impossible to get air support... due to the enemy having successfully used the western media to report that US Air power is killig 'innocent' people.

The US should pull our forces from Afghanistan, until such time that either free elections remove the Leftist insurgency presently occupying American governance or failing that, other means effectively provide for same.

The fact is that US troops are being asked to do the impossible... they're trapped between a determined enemy and a duplicitous evil.

To say nothing of the ongoing attacks by this administration against our CIA operatives as well.

The message to those serving on the front lines is one of "don't mess up or we (your own country) is going to get you".

Is it any wonder then that morale is plummetting?

I have to believe that Obama has some semblance of compassion for these soldiers - he may have zero experience in such matters, but I don't believe him to be so incompetent and uncaring as to not realize something must be done quickly one way or the other regarding Afghanistan.

I hope...

,,,

Anyone know how reenlistments have been effected? God Bless Them.

Sep 14 2009
The Department of Defense has announced its recruiting statistics for the active and reserve components for August 2009 (the 11th month of Fiscal Year 2009). A "Fiscal Year" runs from October through September.

All of the active duty branchesbranches met or exceeded their recruiting goals for the month.

Active Duty Recruiting Statistics for August 2009:

•Army – 8,285 accessions with a goal of 6,100; 136 percent
•Navy – 3,289 accessions with a goal of 3,289 ; 100 percent
•Marine Corps – 3,393 accessions with a goal of 3,073; 110 percent
•Air Force – 2,681 accessions with a goal of 2,681; 100 percent
On the Reserve side, all six of the reserve componants met or exceeded their recruiting goals.

Reserve Recruiting Statistics for August 2009:

•Army National Guard – 2,337 accessions with a goal of 4,277; 55 percent
•Army Reserve – 1,478 accessions with a goal of 1,208; 122 percent
•Navy Reserve – 636 accessions with a goal of 636; 100 percent
•Marine Corps Reserve – 433 accessions with a goal of 565; 77 percent
•Air National Guard – 688 accessions with a goal of 840; 82 percent
•Air Force Reserve – 827 accessions with a goal of 167; 495 percent
Fiscal Year 2009 Recruiting Statistics to Date

(October 1, 2008 to August 31, 2009)

FY 2009 Recruiting Statistics
Componant Accessions Goal Percent
Army
63049 58750 107
Navy
32582 32582 100
Marine Corps
29543 25151 117
Air Force
29685 29646 100
Army National Guard 45245 45595 99
Army Reserve 35062 30946 113
Navy Reserve 9705 9705 100
Marine Corps Reserve 8609 6189 139
Air National Guard 9055 8640 105
Air Force Reserve 8604 7863 109


FY 2009 Recruiting Statistics - August 2009

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

they are also afraid or terrified and frozen because of the war protesters in DC now. clearly this form of gov is now starting its death throws.

the generals and admirals should ALL resign.

Resign? They should turn their forces towards DC and end this...

This regime is overtly hostile to every facet of America... hells bells ... even their man who they appoitned to 'keep kids safe' is advocating for the MAN BOY LOVE ASSOCIATION... for God's sake.

 

[namvet]

sheep going to the slaughterhouse

 

[Sinatra]

To say nothing of the ongoing attacks by this administration against our CIA operatives as well.

The message to those serving on the front lines is one of "don't mess up or we (your own country) is going to get you".

Is it any wonder then that morale is plummetting?

I have to believe that Obama has some semblance of compassion for these soldiers - he may have zero experience in such matters, but I don't believe him to be so incompetent and uncaring as to not realize something must be done quickly one way or the other regarding Afghanistan.

I hope...

,,,

Anyone know how reenlistments have been effected? God Bless Them.

Sep 14 2009
The Department of Defense has announced its recruiting statistics for the active and reserve components for August 2009 (the 11th month of Fiscal Year 2009). A "Fiscal Year" runs from October through September.

All of the active duty branchesbranches met or exceeded their recruiting goals for the month.

Active Duty Recruiting Statistics for August 2009:

•Army – 8,285 accessions with a goal of 6,100; 136 percent
•Navy – 3,289 accessions with a goal of 3,289 ; 100 percent
•Marine Corps – 3,393 accessions with a goal of 3,073; 110 percent
•Air Force – 2,681 accessions with a goal of 2,681; 100 percent
On the Reserve side, all six of the reserve componants met or exceeded their recruiting goals.

Reserve Recruiting Statistics for August 2009:

•Army National Guard – 2,337 accessions with a goal of 4,277; 55 percent
•Army Reserve – 1,478 accessions with a goal of 1,208; 122 percent
•Navy Reserve – 636 accessions with a goal of 636; 100 percent
•Marine Corps Reserve – 433 accessions with a goal of 565; 77 percent
•Air National Guard – 688 accessions with a goal of 840; 82 percent
•Air Force Reserve – 827 accessions with a goal of 167; 495 percent
Fiscal Year 2009 Recruiting Statistics to Date

(October 1, 2008 to August 31, 2009)

FY 2009 Recruiting Statistics
Componant Accessions Goal Percent
Army
63049 58750 107
Navy
32582 32582 100
Marine Corps
29543 25151 117
Air Force
29685 29646 100
Army National Guard 45245 45595 99
Army Reserve 35062 30946 113
Navy Reserve 9705 9705 100
Marine Corps Reserve 8609 6189 139
Air National Guard 9055 8640 105
Air Force Reserve 8604 7863 109


FY 2009 Recruiting Statistics - August 2009

God bless them - and keep them safe.

 

[DiamondDave]

Very tough article regarding the drop in American troop morale during the last nine months.

I don't care what side of the political spectrum you are on - every American has to feel for these soldiers. Keep them in your prayers please...

___


American soldiers serving in Afghanistan are depressed and deeply disillusioned, according to the chaplains of two US battalions that have spent nine months on the front line in the war against the Taleban.

Many feel that they are risking their lives — and that colleagues have died — for a futile mission and an Afghan population that does nothing to help them, the chaplains told The Times in their makeshift chapel on this fortress-like base in a dusty, brown valley southwest of Kabul.

“The many soldiers who come to see us have a sense of futility and anger about being here. They are really in a state of depression and despair and just want to get back to their families,” said Captain Jeff Masengale, of the 10th Mountain Division’s 2-87 Infantry Battalion.

“They feel they are risking their lives for progress that’s hard to discern,” said Captain Sam Rico, of the Division’s 4-25 Field Artillery Battalion. “They are tired, strained, confused and just want to get through.” The chaplains said that they were speaking out because the men could not.



American troops in Afghanistan losing heart, say army chaplains - Times Online

Kind of like the drop in morale we had when I was enlisted, after Clinton was elected and started with his policies and poor treatment of the military

 

[Sinatra]

Very tough article regarding the drop in American troop morale during the last nine months.

I don't care what side of the political spectrum you are on - every American has to feel for these soldiers. Keep them in your prayers please...

___


American soldiers serving in Afghanistan are depressed and deeply disillusioned, according to the chaplains of two US battalions that have spent nine months on the front line in the war against the Taleban.

Many feel that they are risking their lives — and that colleagues have died — for a futile mission and an Afghan population that does nothing to help them, the chaplains told The Times in their makeshift chapel on this fortress-like base in a dusty, brown valley southwest of Kabul.

“The many soldiers who come to see us have a sense of futility and anger about being here. They are really in a state of depression and despair and just want to get back to their families,” said Captain Jeff Masengale, of the 10th Mountain Division’s 2-87 Infantry Battalion.

“They feel they are risking their lives for progress that’s hard to discern,” said Captain Sam Rico, of the Division’s 4-25 Field Artillery Battalion. “They are tired, strained, confused and just want to get through.” The chaplains said that they were speaking out because the men could not.



American troops in Afghanistan losing heart, say army chaplains - Times Online

Kind of like the drop in morale we had when I was enlisted, after Clinton was elected and started with his policies and poor treatment of the military

Yes, I do remember that.

Fortunately, the military conflicts we had during that era were much smaller in size.

And I still maintain that this president is not downright evil - he isn't just playing our soldiers as expendable political pawns is he?

Is he?

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

The problem is that YOU people threw American troops into a fucking firepit without any clear objective besides "win the war on terrorism".

ROFLMNAO... absolutely FALSE.
US and NATO forces are there to secure Afghanistan from those who violently challenge the freely elected Afghan government.

Such progressed along well until roughly January of 2009... when the Muslim lead regime changed the Rules of Engagement, started Mirandizing PRISONERS of WAR and started OPENLY and OVERTLY undermining the US GWOT at every level... even FORBIDDING THE USE OF THE WORDS "TERRORIST, TERRORISM AND US WAR ON TERRORISM"

 

[Shogun]

The problem is that YOU people threw American troops into a fucking firepit without any clear objective besides "win the war on terrorism".

ROFLMNAO... absolutely FALSE.
US and NATO forces are there to secure Afghanistan from those who violently challenge the freely elected Afghan government.

Such progressed along well until roughly January of 2009... when the Muslim lead regime changed the Rules of Engagement, started Mirandizing PRISONERS of WAR and started OPENLY and OVERTLY undermining the US GWOT at every level... even FORBIDDING THE USE OF THE WORDS "TERRORIST, TERRORISM AND US WAR ON TERRORISM"

yea dude... nothing says "accomplished objective" QUITE LIKE crying about trrrorrrrrsts (when we all know you really just mean muslims) in a nation full of muslims. Afghan simmered while your kind preached on and on and on about how Iraq was going to return bountiful peace post-Saddam. Hell, your kind wouldn't even hunt for OBL! Shall I quote Bush on that regard? Like I said, it's fucking pathetic that you people scream and pout giant croc tears NOW rather than 5 fucking years ago when it would have mattered and we could have avoided both fruitless conflicts.


But hey... use the corpses of American military for your political agenda, dude. You sure are a proud American.

 

[Si modo]

The problem is that YOU people threw American troops into a fucking firepit without any clear objective besides "win the war on terrorism".

ROFLMNAO... absolutely FALSE.
US and NATO forces are there to secure Afghanistan from those who violently challenge the freely elected Afghan government.

Such progressed along well until roughly January of 2009... when the Muslim lead regime changed the Rules of Engagement, started Mirandizing PRISONERS of WAR and started OPENLY and OVERTLY undermining the US GWOT at every level... even FORBIDDING THE USE OF THE WORDS "TERRORIST, TERRORISM AND US WAR ON TERRORISM"

yea dude... nothing says "accomplished objective" QUITE LIKE crying about trrrorrrrrsts (when we all know you really just mean muslims) in a nation full of muslims. Afghan simmered while your kind preached on and on and on about how Iraq was going to return bountiful peace post-Saddam. Hell, your kind wouldn't even hunt for OBL! Shall I quote Bush on that regard? Like I said, it's fucking pathetic that you people scream and pout giant croc tears NOW rather than 5 fucking years ago when it would have mattered and we could have avoided both fruitless conflicts.


But hey... use the corpses of American military for your political agenda, dude. You sure are a proud American.

Somehow, I just can't buy an ounce of sincerity from you.

 

[Oldandtired]

The problem is that YOU people threw American troops into a fucking firepit without any clear objective besides "win the war on terrorism".

ROFLMNAO... absolutely FALSE.
US and NATO forces are there to secure Afghanistan from those who violently challenge the freely elected Afghan government.

Such progressed along well until roughly January of 2009... when the Muslim lead regime changed the Rules of Engagement, started Mirandizing PRISONERS of WAR and started OPENLY and OVERTLY undermining the US GWOT at every level... even FORBIDDING THE USE OF THE WORDS "TERRORIST, TERRORISM AND US WAR ON TERRORISM"

yea dude... nothing says "accomplished objective" QUITE LIKE crying about trrrorrrrrsts (when we all know you really just mean muslims) in a nation full of muslims. Afghan simmered while your kind preached on and on and on about how Iraq was going to return bountiful peace post-Saddam. Hell, your kind wouldn't even hunt for OBL! Shall I quote Bush on that regard? Like I said, it's fucking pathetic that you people scream and pout giant croc tears NOW rather than 5 fucking years ago when it would have mattered and we could have avoided both fruitless conflicts.


But hey... use the corpses of American military for your political agenda, dude. You sure are a proud American.

Do you truly believe that the people screaming and crying 5 years ago would have made a bit of difference? There were millions of liberals screaming and crying 5 years ago and it fell on deaf ears...and there are millions of conservatives screaming and crying now and it is AGAIN falling on deaf ears.
It is people like you that like to blame people like me for not speaking our minds when you want us to...and when we DO speak our minds when you DONT want us to you call us mobs, domestic terrorists and radicals.

The hypoicrisy is not amusing. It is sad.

 

[nodoginnafight]

But hey... use the corpses of American military for your political agenda, dude. You sure are a proud American.

On THIS point I can agree with you fully.
Because THAT is EXACTLY what is going on here and it disgusts me.

 

[Si modo]

But hey... use the corpses of American military for your political agenda, dude. You sure are a proud American.

On THIS point I can agree with you fully.
Because THAT is EXACTLY what is going on here and it disgusts me.

We're asking that the administration actually help those on the ground or bring them home. Sitting on his ass while they die is not cool and it has NOTHING to do with partisanship.

 

[Oldandtired]

But hey... use the corpses of American military for your political agenda, dude. You sure are a proud American.

On THIS point I can agree with you fully.
Because THAT is EXACTLY what is going on here and it disgusts me.

And you do not feel that such was EXACTLY what Pelosi, Reid, Murtha, Kerry and many others did for the 2 years before the last election?
Perhaps we should have ALL expressed outrage for such tactics back then so republican assholes didnt feel it was an acceptable way to campaign...
But instead, those that used such outrageous tactics were rewarded with a super majority in congress.

Sure...that makes sense.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

The problem is that YOU people threw American troops into a fucking firepit without any clear objective besides "win the war on terrorism".

ROFLMNAO... absolutely FALSE.
US and NATO forces are there to secure Afghanistan from those who violently challenge the freely elected Afghan government.

Such progressed along well until roughly January of 2009... when the Muslim lead regime changed the Rules of Engagement, started Mirandizing PRISONERS of WAR and started OPENLY and OVERTLY undermining the US GWOT at every level... even FORBIDDING THE USE OF THE WORDS "TERRORIST, TERRORISM AND US WAR ON TERRORISM"

yea dude... nothing says "accomplished objective" QUITE LIKE crying about trrrorrrrrsts (when we all know you really just mean muslims) in a nation full of muslims. Afghan simmered while your kind preached on and on and on about how Iraq was going to return bountiful peace post-Saddam. Hell, your kind wouldn't even hunt for OBL! Shall I quote Bush on that regard? Like I said, it's fucking pathetic that you people scream and pout giant croc tears NOW rather than 5 fucking years ago when it would have mattered and we could have avoided both fruitless conflicts.


But hey... use the corpses of American military for your political agenda, dude. You sure are a proud American.

ROFL... Hey look kids... it's a leftist trying to project that for Americans, 'terrorist' is synonymous with "muslim'...

Let's do the math... Not all Muslims are Islamic terrorists... but all Islamic terrorists are Muslim...

The Taliban are not Al Qaeda, but they are sympathetic to Al Qaeda.. and that's well within the working definition of an Islamic terrorist.

So what can we make of the in-house advocate of Adult/child sex, bringing this argument?

I mean, what could such an argument seek to accomplish? What would be the purpose of belittling the use of the word 'terrorist'?

Could it be a function of truth? Could this person be trying to espouse the truth that 'terrorism' doesn't exist, thus the use of the word which describes those who engage in such: 'terrorist' doesn't apply?

No... that can't be right because we know that terrorism is a very real, tangible weapon; and therefore terrorists are all too real; so such an effort would be a lie... a deception.

And that is what this idiot is about...

Understand that this is the SAME person who declared on one breath that 'homosexuality is wholly distinct from pedophilia' and in the next provided evidence which professed the pedophilic nature of homosexuality in those cultures which had normalized such.

Here she comes to lament the recognition of our Muslim enemy as an enemy... she's a liar... a deceiver; and she serves no other purpose than deception... setting aside the comedic value of her chronic hysteria, of course.

 

[California Girl]

The article is accurate... The men in Afghanistan are between the a rock and a hard place.

They face a determined insurgency; which has them pinned against an administration which threatens them with prison if they violate the Rules of Engagement which prevent them from firing upon the enemy that is firing upon them, until they receive permission to fire from their Chain of Command; what's more is that US air superiority is now nearly worthless; as it is now next to impossible to get air support... due to the enemy having successfully used the western media to report that US Air power is killig 'innocent' people.

The US should pull our forces from Afghanistan, until such time that either free elections remove the Leftist insurgency presently occupying American governance or failing that, other means effectively provide for same.

The fact is that US troops are being asked to do the impossible... they're trapped between a determined enemy and a duplicitous evil.

Beautifully put. With 5 brothers all currently serving and each having done their time in the various sandpits, I totally agree with what you say.

To You!

 

[nodoginnafight]

We're asking that the administration actually help those on the ground or bring them home. Sitting on his ass while they die is not cool and it has NOTHING to do with partisanship.

And what leads you to believe he is "sitting on his ass?"
I think we either have to send more troops or come home, too - depending upon what the remaining objectives there are. But the contention that Obama is "sitting on his ass" at the expense of our soldiers and using their sacrifices to gin up some sympathy for THEM (which is almost always short-lived) and gin up some resentment towards Obama is very disrespectful to the soldiers. It turns them into your pawns.
I cannot condone that.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

But hey... use the corpses of American military for your political agenda, dude. You sure are a proud American.

On THIS point I can agree with you fully.
Because THAT is EXACTLY what is going on here and it disgusts me.

Isn't it cute when leftist come together to touch their collective peters? And do so as if there is a point of contention elsewhere that is worth noting?

HYSTERICAL! (In at least two contexts and on several levels...)