Bring em home soon

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Mr. P, Nov 16, 2006.

  1. Mr. P
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    Mr. P Senior Member

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    Written by a guy on another site I visit who is about to be deployed to Afghanistan (for the second time I think).

    I have to say I agree. Except for the bolded line.
    ******************************************

    Well...based on conversations with lots of soldiers who have been to Iraq, I think we should pull out. As my friend Ray (freshly back from Iraq) put it, "I don't know why we're there. The Iraqis just keep killing each other anyway." The Iraqis don't at all appreciate the gifts of liberty and democracy that we are attempting to give them on a silver platter - at the cost of the blood of some of our country's finest young men.

    Personally, I think this is because individual liberty and democratic government are products of societal evolution over thousands of years. For western culture, this began with the ancient Greeks. Muslim countries have no such cultural background. I just don't think we can make a stable democracy in such a culture in five or ten years, and I certainly don't think the ungrateful Iraqis deserve such an effort of American life and treasure.

    I also think the welfare analogy applies to Iraq. Welfare recipients will milk the system and ride on the backs of taxpayers as long as they can. Only when you threaten to kick them off the welfare rolls on a certain date do they take responsibility for their own lives. Similarly, if we never give the Iraqis a deadline, they will just coast along on the backs of our Army, and America's young men will continue to die so that the Iraqis have the freedom to murder and torture each other.

    I think the Bush administration will have to settle for some kind of compromise on Iraq, since there's really now way to win this. I realize the "strategy" has been "we'll pull out when we're victorious." But no one seems to be able to fully define victory in Iraq, and there is no way in hell the Iraqis are going to have a stable country by the end of the Bush administration.

    Of course, in light of last week's election, it could be argued that the Bush administration has already ended. And no matter the excuses made by the GOP, it's because of the terrible and incompetent execution of the Iraq occupation. Incompetence not by the soldiers and Marines on the ground, but by the higher-ups who didn't plan for the worst.
     
  2. theHawk
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    theHawk Registered Conservative

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    I agree. I think our mission was accomplished long ago. The mission was to remove Saddam, search for WMD, search and destroy terrorists, help establish a democracy for the Iraqis. I don't think we should pull out fully, I think we shouldn't be patrolling streets and setting up roadblocks. We'll still need to attack any terrorist strongholds via air-strikes and raids. Let the Iraqis work out their government themselves.
     
  3. 90K
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    Yes the mission to capture Saddam was a success. Although playing this humanitarian deal is where we've come up short. I actually think the iraqis don't want to led there country into another direction which could include democracy. I mean why should they? Many of the population had lived under Saddam and they didn't need to do anything. So yes seek and destroy terrorist like Al Sadr and let them figure the rest out. I also believe it is about the saving face agenda of our government as to keep trust in us, and that would be lost if we packed up tomorrow and left.
     
  4. dmp
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    dmp Senior Member

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    I respectfully disagree with that soldier. What's his grade, btw? Not that REALLY matters; but I speak with field-grade officers regularly about Iraq - most are either IN iraq (we chat via email) or just come back. Almost 100% say we need MORE presence there, and we shouldn't withdraw for at least several more years.
     
  5. 90K
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    :tongue1:
    Actually you hear different stories depending on the rank/grade of the individuals. I haven't made it up to Walter Reed but many of those brave men and women would go back and finish the job if they could. So saying that I agree the troops are for the long haul if they'd have more polical support at home. And I say this to the minority of the populas in the US: Allow these troops to do there job and quit getting in the way.
    Now if all these tree huggers want them back I guess my prior post would be my view on that.
     
  6. Mr. P
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    Mr. P Senior Member

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    And what would you expect a field-grade 'LIFER' to say, dmp?:rolleyes:
     
  7. dmp
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    dmp Senior Member

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    These guys didn't get a lobotomy upon making O4, brother.

    addendum:

    In fact, a former co-worker, who was promoted to O5 just prior to his current deployment is a "Doing-my-20-and-getting-out" guy.
     
  8. Mr. P
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    Mr. P Senior Member

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    So true which IS why they'll keep tight lips...Geeeeeeeezzzzzz..

    Do you remember what happened to Gen. Singlaub after he spoke out?
    Imagine what might happen to a Jr. field grade.
     
  9. dmp
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    dmp Senior Member

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    Not even CLOSE. This guy wasn't speaking on behalf of the army - he had NO fear that I'd 'rat him out'. He's a 18 months from retirement, and maybe facing one MORE deployment after this one ends in may. You don't give people enough credit.
     
  10. Mr. P
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    Mr. P Senior Member

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    Besides that, we could send every available soldier and things still wouldn’t change unless the Iraqis want things to change and want Democracy/ freedom. I don’t think they do. I believe this is a NO WIN situation, the sooner we’re out the better. As the first post makes clear, we can’t change a culture in a few years. That IMO is the major problem here. I don’t think trying to do so is worth our young men and women.
    The kidnapping of all those folks this past weekend in BAGBAD no less, solidified this for me.
     

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