Bring back the draft

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I believe the draft should be reinstated. It wouldn't hurt anybody and it would do most young people some good.

It wouldn't hurt anybody? If somebody gets drafted, sent to Afghanistan, and then killed they're not hurt?

 

[American Horse]

A nation of 350 million shouldn't be strapped for manpower.

Like rotating soldiers in tours of duty like we do today

I'd support that if it was initiated in peacetime, and it meant universal military service for all males except for those with education deferments, and also with ROTC being welcomed at all universities.

This is pretty much how it was between WWII and the Korean War, or the Korean War and Vietnam. We had a sizable standing military force.

And, as during the last century, no draft for the Marines. Keep enlistment in the Corps voluntary; that is it should be only for people who want to serve in it.

 

[code1211]

A nation of 350 million shouldn't be strapped for manpower.

Like rotating soldiers in tours of duty like we do today

If the draft were still active this nation would not be in the sad shape it's in today because Bush could not have managed to lie us into invading Iraq.

Suspending the draft was a bad mistake.

I'm still trying to figure this one out 8 years after the point was raised the first time. How does having a war with an all volunteer military allow a war but forcing people to go to war prevent one? Wouldn't that be reversed? If people were so against the war wouldn't they refrain from signing up to go?

A draft involves all people who fit the qulifications and therefore involves the whole population. This is why Nixon instituted the lottery for the draft. It automatically eliminated all but those who had birthdays in the lottery selected group.

Suddenly, instead of all of the kids aged 19, it was 14 birthdays, 3.8%, of the group of 19 year olds. Suddenly, the group that had to worry about it was cut by about 96%. Riots ended although the war continued.

Politically, this was brilliant.

A draft is called for only by those who are against the effort to raise an army.

 

[onecut39]

(snip)

If you're going to post a wall of text the least you can do is not up the font size.

Just wanted to be sure it was easy to read, so very few have taken the time to find out.

 

[MikeK]

You know i have noticed but of the people wanting the draft back are old farts who are too old to be drafted so it's very easy for them to support such a move.

I'm an old fart but I put my time in long before you were born. Four years in the Marine Corps. In my time it was considered an obligation to serve. I was 1-A, so if I hadn't enlisted I probably would have been drafted.

I'm in my 20's in college trying to finish up when i leave I like to start my career. I don't want to be sent off to kill. I think the idea of war is horrible. Innocent people wind up getting killed at high numbers.

How do you feel about defending your country, which is what an active military is for? It's better to have a People's Army than the quasi-mercenary Army we have today, which is a job rather than fulfilling one's patriotic obligation.

I cannot imagine if the draft was still in place during these past 7 years in Iraq. People would have been sent off to fight and be killed for imaginary WMDs.

If the draft was in place Bush could not have managed to lie us into the Iraq invasion.

And soldiers on the battlefield have even said they do not want people on the battlefield who don't want to be there in the first place.

Any soldier who wants to be on a battlefield needs psychiatric attention. We did pretty good in WW-II with soldiers who didn't want to be on those battlefields. But then again that was a war, not the kind of unlawful, imperious military aggression we're involved in now.

 

[uscitizen]

I believe the draft should be reinstated. It wouldn't hurt anybody and it would do most young people some good.

Some are not cut out for the military esp combat. Yes it did and would hurt many unwilling draftees just as it did before.

How would it not hurt anyone? 4500 or so dead in Iraq?
How many maimed and seriously wounded? disabled?

 

[Defiant1]

You would think young Obama voters would flock to enlist.

Just the thought of being able to serve under their jug-eared messiah has to produce wet dreams.

 

[MikeK]

A nation of 350 million shouldn't be strapped for manpower.

Like rotating soldiers in tours of duty like we do today

If the draft were still active this nation would not be in the sad shape it's in today because Bush could not have managed to lie us into invading Iraq.

Suspending the draft was a bad mistake.

I'm still trying to figure this one out 8 years after the point was raised the first time. How does having a war with an all volunteer military allow a war but forcing people to go to war prevent one? Wouldn't that be reversed? If people were so against the war wouldn't they refrain from signing up to go?

Were it not for the fact that most of the Americans being misused in Vietnam were drafted it is likely that debacle would have lasted another ten or more years. The most passionate protesters were the loved ones of the draftees and the young men who were draft eligible and were intelligent enough to realize there was no good reason for our military activity in Vietnam.

 

[MikeK]

Because involuntary servitude is always such a wonderful idea.

Military service is not servitude. Except when it is performed for a bonus or some other mercenary compensation it is fulfilling a patriotic obligation.

As has been pointed out, manpower is at approved levels, but think of it this way:

If they throw a war at us and nobody joins up, maybe the war hasn't been judged necessary by the people.

Do you believe the Iraq invasion has been judged necessary by the People?

 

[Father Time]

If someone doesn't want to fight they shouldn't be forced to even if the war is supported by the rest of the country (or most of them).

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Because involuntary servitude is always such a wonderful idea.

Military service is not servitude. Except when it is performed for a bonus or some other mercenary compensation it is fulfilling a patriotic obligation.

As has been pointed out, manpower is at approved levels, but think of it this way:

If they throw a war at us and nobody joins up, maybe the war hasn't been judged necessary by the people.

Do you believe the Iraq invasion has been judged necessary by the People?

If you're forced to serve against your will it certainly is servitude, and of the involuntary persuasion.

 

[MikeK]

So the whole point of people advocating for a draft is to stop people that disagree with them from volunteering to fight? Interesting.

No. It's to retain a Peoples' Army in preference to a quasi-mercenary military which is subject to the capricious whims of criminals like the Bush Administration.

The utterly outrageous and totally unnecessary carnage and cost of the Vietnam "containment" assured that government would never again waste the lives of patriotic American conscripts -- which is why the draft was suspended. The Congress wouldn't have dared to approve the Iraq invasion if draftees were to be sacrificed for a highly questionable cause. But as it is, those who volunteered to play soldier have little cause for complaint.

 

[uscitizen]

If someone doesn't want to fight they shouldn't be forced to even if the war is supported by the rest of the country (or most of them).

Yes, the pride of youth and the need for acceptance, etc will cause many to go to combat that really should not.
We fight our wars with children!

 

[MikeK]

Did the draft end that war?

No. But the protest it engendered certainly brought it to a close.

If we'd fielded a quasi-mercenary military, such as we have today, we might still be in Vietnam, winning battles in a hopelessly lost cause.

 

[MikeK]

Did the draft end that war?

Opposition to the draft did.

You're kidding right? Opposition reached a peak in 1968. When did the war end?

The American People are extremely receptive to government propaganda, especially when it involves matters of militaristic patriotism. We see that even today when it could not be more obvious that there is no good reason for any American to be shedding blood in an unlawful and immoral military adventure like the Iraq invasion and our highly questionable purpose in Afghanistan.

Americans love to wave little flags and let a few tears fall for "our boys over somewhere." It really doesn't matter where or why. They are genetically jingoistic and the vaguest thought of American warriors killing some unspecified "enemy" in some foreign place for some uncertain reason has become sacramental to them. As long as the government says it's necessary, and as long someone else's loved one is being killed or maimed, "Let's blow the bugle and pound the drum."

So it was through most of the Vietnam debacle. Most Americans had been effectively deceived into believing it was worth sacrificing 58,000 young lives and maiming hundreds of thousands more to defeat the North Vietnamese. The propaganda was so effective it lured many young men to enlist but the majority of those who went to Vietnam did so because it was their patriotic duty to respond to the draft.

As the number of KIA and maimed conscripts grew, and as their parents, siblings and spouses began to realize that the fighting in Vietnam was totally unnecessary, the protest movement became a political hot potato which ultimately brought the debacle to an end.

 

[MikeK]

Because involuntary servitude is always such a wonderful idea.

Military service is not servitude. Except when it is performed for a bonus or some other mercenary compensation it is fulfilling a patriotic obligation.

As has been pointed out, manpower is at approved levels, but think of it this way:

If they throw a war at us and nobody joins up, maybe the war hasn't been judged necessary by the people.

Do you believe the Iraq invasion has been judged necessary by the People?

If you're forced to serve against your will it certainly is servitude, and of the involuntary persuasion.

Serving your country is not servitude. It is service. If you don't understand the difference something is missing in your basic education.

 

[MikeK]

Do you really want me in your military?

Why not?

There's plenty of floors (decks) to be swept and toilets (heads or latrines) to be scrubbed.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Military service is not servitude. Except when it is performed for a bonus or some other mercenary compensation it is fulfilling a patriotic obligation.


Do you believe the Iraq invasion has been judged necessary by the People?

If you're forced to serve against your will it certainly is servitude, and of the involuntary persuasion.

Serving your country is not servitude. It is service. If you don't understand the difference something is missing in your basic education.

So if a private person kidnaps me and forces me to work on their farm that's slavery. But if the government takes me and forces me to fight for them that's "service." I'm sorry but the difference between these scenarios is escaping me.

 

[MikeK]

Todays volunteer military is rife with crime and drug use.

Prefer a cross-section of society with the draft.

Thats not for you to determine though. The Military is not about PC. That line of thinking has done way too much harm.

That is for every citizen to have a voice in determining.

The military is about defending the nation against hostile military action. And that purpose should be served by a cross-section of society. Not only by those who cannot afford to evade service. America was a much healthier place, politically and in other ways, when the draft was active.

 

[MikeK]

If you're forced to serve against your will it certainly is servitude, and of the involuntary persuasion.

Serving your country is not servitude. It is service. If you don't understand the difference something is missing in your basic education.

So if a private person kidnaps me and forces me to work on their farm that's slavery. But if the government takes me and forces me to fight for them that's "service." I'm sorry but the difference between these scenarios is escaping me.

So you see no difference in being kidnaped and forced to work on someone's farm and being conscripted, along with other able-bodied young men, to defend your country against foreign invasion.

Is the man who kidnaped you and is forcing you to work on his farm also taking everything your family owns and raping your kid sister? Consider the fact that such things are what happens when a country is invaded and occupied. Maybe that will help you to understand the difference.