Bridge the gap between Israel and Palestine?

[Hyrcanus]

How do we bridge the gap between these two peoples?

How do we convince both sides to make the necessary compromises for peace?

 

[konradv]

How do we bridge the gap between these two peoples?

How do we convince both sides to make the necessary compromises for peace?

Both sides would have to find a way to take out their extremists. No idea how they'd go about doing that. The whole issue makes me sick to my stomach, because there's no end in sight.

 

[Hyrcanus]

Both sides would have to find a way to take out their extremists. No idea how they'd go about doing that. The whole issue makes me sick to my stomach, because there's no end in sight.

take them out? no needed.

they simply needed to be educated or marginalized.

 

[jwoodie]

This conflict will continue as long as there remains a Jewish State on what is perceived to be Palestinian land. The solution is not to create an independent Palestinian State, but to create a united country which respected both Judaism and Islam. I would envision four political entities, two secular and two religious. In order to pass legislation, three of the four parties would have to agree. Hopefully, the Palestinians would then recognize that obstinacy by their political leaders would only maintain the status quo.

I realize that, after the Holocaust, Israelis would be loathe to give up a Jewish Homeland. However they, too, must recognize that simply clinging to their guns and religion will not serve them in the long run.

 

[PaulS1950]

These peoples have been at war for two millenia. Their fight is not over land or politics it is over faith that one or the other was wronged or did wrong millenia before that. They are so filled with indoctrinated hatred that the only way to stop them from killing each other is to eradicate them both.

since that is not going to happen then they will continue to fight until their hatred is gone. The way that the Islamic extremists add hated people to their list it will never end because they even hate each other.

 

[Hyrcanus]

These peoples have been at war for two millenia....

Not at all.

Jews and Muslims fought together against the First Crusaders.

Jews and Muslims lived in relative peace in Palestine, Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, Libya, Algeria, Iraq, Iran, Turkey, Bosnia, Morocco, for centuries before Israel was created.

 

[petro]

Let them figure it out for themselves. Why should we be the worlds damn referee, it just always bites us in the ass in the end.

 

[dilloduck]

We could at least stop wasting our money trying to bribe them into playing nice.

 

[MHunterB]

These peoples have been at war for two millenia....

Not at all.

Jews and Muslims fought together against the First Crusaders.

Jews and Muslims lived in relative peace in Palestine, Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, Libya, Algeria, Iraq, Iran, Turkey, Bosnia, Morocco, for centuries before Israel was created.

Please provide historical documentation for those assertions.

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

How do we bridge the gap between these two peoples?

How do we convince both sides to make the necessary compromises for peace?

Coming to the negotiating table would be a start, without the pre-conditions of a building freeze in the West Bank and without all the terrorists convicted and in jail being released.

 

[Hyrcanus]

Please provide historical documentation for those assertions.

The Muslims gave the Jews of Palestine responsibility for the defense of Haifa during the First Crusades.

 

[Hyrcanus]

Coming to the negotiating table would be a start, without the pre-conditions of a building freeze in the West Bank and without all the terrorists convicted and in jail being released.

I have to agree that letting the Israelis bait them into not coming to the negotiation table is a mistake.

 

[MHunterB]

Please provide historical documentation for those assertions.

The Muslims gave the Jews of Palestine responsibility for the defense of Haifa during the First Crusades.

One instance in one country during all those centuries, with no citation or documentation? That's entirely insufficient to support the initial assertion.

 

[Hyrcanus]

One instance in one country during all those centuries, with no citation or documentation? That's entirely insufficient to support the initial assertion.

History of the Jews and the Crusades - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Jews almost single-handedly defended Haifa against the crusaders, holding out in the besieged town for a whole month (June–July 1099) in fierce battles

 

[Auteur]

The withdrawal of total, unqualified support of the US would go a long way. The Israeli leadership has felt itself in a very strong position since the '67 war for two reasons. One is the massive economic and military aid supplied by the US, and it's explicit military backing. The second is its monopoly on nuclear weapons. With neither of these advantages, Israel would be much more likely to negociate a settlement in good faith. The second factor is probably going to change within the next couple of years anyway (Iran). The US can change the first, but only if it can reign in the voracious lobbying that goes on in Washington today.

 

[Hyrcanus]

The withdrawal of total, unqualified support of the US would go a long way. The Israeli leadership has felt itself in a very strong position since the '67 war for two reasons. One is the massive economic and military aid supplied by the US, and it's explicit military backing. The second is its monopoly on nuclear weapons. With neither of these advantages, Israel would be much more likely to negociate a settlement in good faith. The second factor is probably going to change within the next couple of years anyway (Iran). The US can change the first, but only if it can reign in the voracious lobbying that goes on in Washington today.

Yes, the end of politics by legal bribery in Washington, D.C. would surely make our policies on the Middle East much more fair and balanced.

And without the United States basically kow-towing to all of Israel's right-wing policies (settlements, war on Gaza, violating Lebanon's airspace, stripping Palestinians of their Permanent Residency status based on Ottoman-era law), Israel would be forced to take a more reasonable approach towards their adversaries.

 

[MHunterB]

One instance in one country during all those centuries, with no citation or documentation? That's entirely insufficient to support the initial assertion.

History of the Jews and the Crusades - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Jews almost single-handedly defended Haifa against the crusaders, holding out in the besieged town for a whole month (June–July 1099) in fierce battles

Thank you, but that still remains a single incident - and would seem to be an exceptional one. It also doesn't really speak to Muslim/Jewish positive or cordial relations nearly as much as it does to Muslim/Jewish aversion to wholesale slaughter by Christian armies.

The history of Muslim/Jewish relations through the Middle Ages and into the Ottoman days is replete with massacres and expulsions - perhaps less so than in Christian nations, but still nositive.

 

[MHunterB]

This conflict will continue as long as there remains a Jewish State on what is perceived to be Palestinian land. The solution is not to create an independent Palestinian State, but to create a united country which respected both Judaism and Islam. I would envision four political entities, two secular and two religious. In order to pass legislation, three of the four parties would have to agree. Hopefully, the Palestinians would then recognize that obstinacy by their political leaders would only maintain the status quo.

I realize that, after the Holocaust, Israelis would be loathe to give up a Jewish Homeland. However they, too, must recognize that simply clinging to their guns and religion will not serve them in the long run.

I am certain I must have misunderstood the above, for it appears to indicate the poster's belief that the Jews need to abandon Judaism to have peace?

I'm hoping he'll come back and discuss that with me......

 

[Hyrcanus]

Thank you, but that still remains a single incident - and would seem to be an exceptional one. It also doesn't really speak to Muslim/Jewish positive or cordial relations nearly as much as it does to Muslim/Jewish aversion to wholesale slaughter by Christian armies.

The history of Muslim/Jewish relations through the Middle Ages and into the Ottoman days is replete with massacres and expulsions - perhaps less so than in Christian nations, but still nositive.

Still, Muslim-Jewish relations have been must better over the last 1,200 years than Christian-Jewish relations.

What do we call our time in Spain during the Muslim control of the region?

The Golden Age in Spain.

 

[MHunterB]

The withdrawal of total, unqualified support of the US would go a long way.
>>>>> I don't think this is accurate: I think that the Israelis just haven't done anything which has diverged that far enough from a given US administration's interests for the US to contemplate dissolving the alliance.

The Israeli leadership has felt itself in a very strong position since the '67 war for two reasons. One is the massive economic and military aid supplied by the US, and it's explicit military backing. The second is its monopoly on nuclear weapons.
>>>>> Is there really such a huge amount of US aid? Israel is certainly quite capable of manufacturing a lot of weapons and equipment on its own. As to the 'monopoly' - Pakistan has nukes now, and who knows who the former USSR has sold what to whom. So there's no 'guarantee' there.

With neither of these advantages, Israel would be much more likely to negociate a settlement in good faith.
Why do you claim Israel has not been negotiating in good faith? And what's your assessment about the 'good faith' of any given group purporting to speak for the Palestinians?

The second factor is probably going to change within the next couple of years anyway (Iran). The US can change the first, but only if it can reign in the voracious lobbying that goes on in Washington today.
'Voracious' lobbying? I think that's a not particularly appropriate adjective to use. And lobbying can't really be 'reined in' unless it's done across the board( not that I think that's a bad idea!)

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