Boehner demands trillions in cuts in exchange for debt vote

they keep digging themselves into a hole they're never going to get out of.

That is for sure and someday those who govern will realize that they can't just keep spending like there is no tomorrow. ;)

Of course, by then it will be too late.

Although I get the feeling you meant the Republicans and you were not talking about our debt.

Immie

i mean them undermining the full faith and credit of this country is imbecilic.

and while i agree that the debt has to be addressed, one shouldn't cut one's income when one has bills to pay. so you'll forgive me if i'm not all torn up about it.

I completely agree that one should not cut one's income when there are bills to pay. You don't see me demanding tax cuts. Do you? I think taxes should be raised (not just upon the poor) and spending cut. Unfortunately, it seems Republicans can't figure out half of that equation and Democrats haven't figured out that an equation is even needed.

Immie
 
Anyone who talks about spending cuts without mentioning the military and the banks is a fake.

Let’s get something strait... The only side of the argument when it comes to "people" that is not allowing cuts are the people why want more SS ,welfare, MC, Government Unions and other entitlement programs.

Once again, the senate is Dem, the president is Dem and the house used to be Dem and yet military was expanded... Liberals can pretend all they want that Republicans are the war party despite their party supported Bush when he went in and expanded it the moment they got back in power.

Both parties are bad but Democrats (voters) don’t want to give up on social spending while supporting the biggest war party since ww2, their party. And how do they justify their actions? Liberals say "well you supported Bush when he did it..." L O L.

How does this differ from what I said?
 
Anyone who talks about spending cuts without mentioning the military and the banks is a fake.

Let’s get something strait... The only side of the argument when it comes to "people" that is not allowing cuts are the people why want more SS ,welfare, MC, Government Unions and other entitlement programs.

Once again, the senate is Dem, the president is Dem and the house used to be Dem and yet military was expanded... Liberals can pretend all they want that Republicans are the war party despite their party supported Bush when he went in and expanded it the moment they got back in power.

Both parties are bad but Democrats (voters) don’t want to give up on social spending while supporting the biggest war party since ww2, their party. And how do they justify their actions? Liberals say "well you supported Bush when he did it..." L O L.

How does this differ from what I said?

=X lol, you got me there haha. Well then I agree with you =D
 
Here's the question I'll be asking the next time I vote:

If the answer is "yes," you're not getting my vote.
Sometimes you have to spend in debt in order to get out of debt.

Ask anyone whose started a business; debt is fine if it's for sound investments that'll leave you better off in the long run.

Stop clinging to empty rhetoric and think

Were you drunk when you posted this?

So your only response to financial reality is sad personal attacks?
 
You scare the shit out of me with the bolded...
:eusa_eh:
[A]n environment in which the radioactive spider is replaced with the Ubermensch and self-improvement and the local churches and citizens councils that lead local efforts to aid the poor are cast as among our greatest civil heroes and role models.

What's so scary about self-improvement, personal responsibility, strong communities, and private charities that assist the less fortunate?
 
Of course not; we have the biggest economy in the world. Why would you expect countries with smaller economies to have higher revenues than us?

I wouldn't.

Why would you expect us to take more taxes than other countries that have smaller economies? We could halve the size of our defense budget and still spend more than all the other major military forces combined. That alone tells me we spend more than we need to which actually makes the people that point out that the problem is not the revenue end of the equation right. Until we deal with the spending problem that our government has we do not need to talk about taxes. Congress needs to cut spending to the bone, and then cut it in half. Then they can come to us and ask for more taxes after justifying the need for them.

So, say $1 trillion per year, or is that still too much? BTW, we don't take in more taxes than smaller countries. As a whole, of course we do, but not per capita or as a percentage of GDP, and those are the measuring stick, are they not?

No, the measuring stick is the total. Progressives like to break it down to a per capita basis because it make massive taxes sound better. On the other hand, if you hear that the average worker has to work until 11:15 every day before he actually starts earning money for himself it makes the taxes seem a lot more burdensome.
 
Here's the question I'll be asking the next time I vote:

If the answer is "yes," you're not getting my vote.
Sometimes you have to spend in debt in order to get out of debt.

Ask anyone whose started a business; debt is fine if it's for sound investments that'll leave you better off in the long run.

Stop clinging to empty rhetoric and think

Were you drunk when you posted this?

I just assumed he was stupid when he posted it.
 
Their effort to do away with Medicare, as we know it, failed .... now this.

Debt ceiling: John Boehner demands trillions in cuts in exchange for vote - latimes.com

By Lisa Mascaro and Kathleen Hennessey, Washington Bureau
May 9, 2011, 6:57 p.m.
Reporting from Washington— House Speaker John A. Boehner said Monday that Republicans wanted trillions in budget cuts in exchange for their vote to increase the nation's borrowing limit and avoid default, adopting a hard line on the party's position in a speech before major players on Wall Street.

Boehner told the Economic Club of New York that his party wanted specific spending cuts — not future targets that would trigger spending reductions or revenue increases, as President Obama has proposed.

It wasn't enough for the Republicans to get America involved in two failed wars and ruin our economy.

Now, they want to bring down the world economy, screw the Middle Class and create a deep depression that will take decades for us to get out of.

You gotta love their focus and consistency, no matter how hair-brained and dangerous their failed policies are.
 
Anyone who talks about spending cuts without mentioning the military and the banks is a fake.

As I recall, most of the opposition to the bank bailouts came from Republicans. Interesting that the Democrats are still blaming the other side for something they did, isn't it?
 
I'll ask again...

How many times was the debt ceiling raised under Bush and how many times was it held hostage by the likes of the Boehner?

Obama opposed raising the debt cieling, but the Democrats in general went along with it. We would have been better off if they hadn't, but we cannot change the past.
 
Their effort to do away with Medicare, as we know it, failed .... now this.

Debt ceiling: John Boehner demands trillions in cuts in exchange for vote - latimes.com

By Lisa Mascaro and Kathleen Hennessey, Washington Bureau
May 9, 2011, 6:57 p.m.
Reporting from Washington— House Speaker John A. Boehner said Monday that Republicans wanted trillions in budget cuts in exchange for their vote to increase the nation's borrowing limit and avoid default, adopting a hard line on the party's position in a speech before major players on Wall Street.

Boehner told the Economic Club of New York that his party wanted specific spending cuts — not future targets that would trigger spending reductions or revenue increases, as President Obama has proposed.

It wasn't enough for the Republicans to get America involved in two failed wars and ruin our economy.

Now, they want to bring down the world economy, screw the Middle Class and create a deep depression that will take decades for us to get out of.

You gotta love their focus and consistency, no matter how hair-brained and dangerous their failed policies are.

The two wars that the Democrats voted for? One of which Obama has said we won? The other which he intensified? Why is everything, including the decisions Obama makes, the fault of Republicans, but he is the onlyone that ever gets credit for anything?
 
Their effort to do away with Medicare, as we know it, failed .... now this.

Debt ceiling: John Boehner demands trillions in cuts in exchange for vote - latimes.com

By Lisa Mascaro and Kathleen Hennessey, Washington Bureau
May 9, 2011, 6:57 p.m.
Reporting from Washington— House Speaker John A. Boehner said Monday that Republicans wanted trillions in budget cuts in exchange for their vote to increase the nation's borrowing limit and avoid default, adopting a hard line on the party's position in a speech before major players on Wall Street.

Boehner told the Economic Club of New York that his party wanted specific spending cuts — not future targets that would trigger spending reductions or revenue increases, as President Obama has proposed.
repig love holding thing hostage , it really mean nothing that the government shut down , that we pull out of the reason , that our strength as a nation matters ,

bullies nothing but thugs and bully's , to bad the Dem's are sissy's
 
Look, America's going to end. All empires have and will.

Mole ruit sua.

There's no reason to worry about preserving such a large nation-state with its artificial loyalties. Instead, we should focus on developing sustainable organic social networks and cooperative associations between persons and communities.

Look to the future. To pretend I have any greater tie to someone 3000 miles away than to someone 500 miles away based merely on the fact that we live on the same side of some imaginary line in the sand is absurd. We are getting nearer every day to the time when mankind will progress beyond neo-colonialism, the nation-state, plutocracy, and artificial loyalties. Focus on developing strong, sustainable communities with those around you and encouraging and partaking in the free flow of information and ideals with all people.


Yeah sure I would dearly love to live in that anarchist utopia, too, JB.

Who said anything about anarchism? Anarchy is impossible. Whenever two men interact, they create either a democracy or a tyranny. People will always arrange themselves into ingroups and form various systems of governance to settle disputes, organize large collaborative efforts, provide for the mutual defense, and establish a system of Law to enforce such ethical standards as the unacceptability of murder and theft. Man is, after all, a social animal.

However, history has shown us that when organic associations are replaced with artificial loyalties that are maintained through force, you end up with a deformed civilization in which not all members are truly one People. Such a society cannot be sustained and will naturally destabilize as the various organic societies contained within it trend toward themselves and antagonisms between them become sharper as they develop away from each other. Once these natural societies begin to express their internal will and come into conflict with the powers lording over them, the powers of Empire will seek to suppress them, first with Law and then with the sword. Such cracking down intensifies the will to resist among small numbers, though the will of the People as a whole may be broken for some time. With continued abuse, however, and as the People become more aware of their socio-political alienation and those in positions of power and influence allow themselves to enjoy their station and revel in the abuse of power, the masses eventually grow restless.

America today is like Rome before it. Modern technology may have shifted the balance of (military) power even further toward Empire, yet it also allows greater communication among the populace, aiding the spread of free thought and fanning the flames of discontent. As we near the tipping point, how this nation will transform and what will come after it will depend largely on the current powers of Empire and whether they allow society to evolve, unite in the suppression of the People's will, or turn their swords upon each other, each attempting to secure his own gains and privileges.
But how does get from where we are now to that state (or rather non-state)?
History is written and society is built form the ground up. Autonomy is, in my opinion, at present, our best available means of expressing our will. We should focus on building strong communities, nurturing our natural associations, and supporting, aiding, and abetting, the free flow of ideas. Nationalism is a dogma and [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Science-Liberty-Democracy-Reason-Nature/dp/0060781505"]the rejection of dogma is critical to liberty and emergence of any legitimate system[/ame].

There is no one solution, no one system, no one path that is right for all people in all places at all times. Some people will wish to establish rather small communities, such as we see in the FEC, and experiment with various forms of direct democracy. Others may desire to preserve, to varying extents, their existing cities and establish either federations or confederations with surrounding areas.

Rather than replacing the old powers of Empire with a new one, as was seen in the past, it is important that the guiding principles be equality, liberty, and socio-political and economic parity for all who to contribute to society as they are able. Every man among his fellows must be free to advocate, seek out, and build such communities and systems of governance as he and his fellows find best able to meet those ends.

We begin not by seeking to replace the current system, but by establishing a parallel system within it, operating independent of it. We must resist always the influence of the Bolsheviks and others like them who would lead us headlong into slaughter, civil war, and the rise of the next strong man. We should not hesitate to defend our liberty and and as necessary, but history teaches us that we should not seek out such conflict as has time and again given rise to new tyrants.
A tragic collapse of empire has never resulted in that kind of strong, sustainable communities by CHOICE ideal that you and I would both like to see mankind evolve into.
Which is why we must begin building such systems now and also work to dissolve, not smash, the current State system so that, with its passing, the order of the world can emerge from among the People.
What's the PLAN?
Network. Communicate. Discuss. Work within the current system to achieve such reforms as we can in order to prepare the way. Work among your fellows to strengthen your community, encourage regional commerce, and establish a strong society that can operate independent of the current powers of Empire. For some, the answer will be communes. For others in other places, food coops, urban agriculture, citizens' councils organizing cooperative efforts and community-building in their own neighborhoods will be critical. For others elsewhere, establishing cooperation between producers of food and goods, achieving workplace and market democracy, and seeking sustainable means of supporting the population will be crucial.

The common threads are autonomy, communication, ground-level organization, and local cooperation and self-governance where possible. A better world is possible; these are the tools with which we can build its foundations.
 
Pretending there is any meaningful difference between the Democrats and the Republicans in naive at best and, by any fair assessment, counterproductive.

Has the lot of the average American been similarly effected under both their rule as of late?

Clearly, neither faction offers us any solutions.
 
Pretending there is any meaningful difference between the Democrats and the Republicans in naive at best and, by any fair assessment, counterproductive.

Has the lot of the average American been similarly effected under both their rule as of late?

Clearly, neither faction offers us any solutions.

We vote in the Repubs until we get sick and tired of them. Then we vote in the Dems until we get sick and tired of them. Then we vote in the Repubs...

There is no real difference. They are both owned by the same people.

Vote the third party of your choice.
 
I'll ask again...

How many times was the debt ceiling raised under Bush and how many times was it held hostage by the likes of the Boehner?

Obama opposed raising the debt cieling,

He's said he regrets that vote only did so as meaningless posturing and would have done so if he thought it was in danger of not passing.

Since he is a liar, and has admitted it, why should I believe anything he says?
 
Bullshit.
I suppose we could dismantle the military entirely. Then we wouldn't have to worry about debt because Muslims don't believe in interest payments. We could be a province of the new Caliphate.

As for Boehner, good for him. Politics is a rough game. Every opportunity to cut entitlement programs, roll back Obamacare, and reduce taxes and spending should be taken. If that means Obama has to do it in exchange for anything, so be it.

No reason to dismantle the military entirely. We are spending a very large amount of our military spending on nation building, something that we cannot afford to do, plain and simple.

As for the rest, how far would you like to roll back taxes? Does zero sound good to you? And let's say we put an end to SS and Medicare, since you seem to like this idea so much. Are you suggesting we pay back every dollar put in by those who have not yet started collecting. I'm not sure what that amount might be, but just by estimating, it should be between $20 to $30 trillion. Or do you suggest we just tell everyone to get fucked and figure it out on their own?

Some of the crap you spew is just that, crap. We've lowered taxes to the lowest in 60 years, yet you want to reduce it more. Sorry, but government does have a role in society. Your idea of cutting it to bare bones is not in the best interest of anyone including yourself. You're just so stuck on your ideology that you can't even see it.

What part of the military is spent on nation building? How much exactly? How do you know this? If we ended the wars in afghanistan and iraq today it would fund the gov't for about a month. That's it.

Taxes are not the lowest they've been. The opposite. The gov't today is taking more of GDP than it ever has since WW2.
The average retiree today gets far more out of SS than he ever put in because the system is based on people dying at about age 70. That isn't true anymore.
If anyone is spewing crap it is you. No one is saying we need no taxes and no government. But it is undeniable that government spends way too much on things that are totally unnecessary or duplicative. How are you going to defend funding "the arts" when it benefits a tiny percentage of the population? Or the Dept of Ed when student performance has gone down every year since the dept was created? You can't.

This is an outright lie. How can anyone take anything you say seriously when you flat out lie? Back up your statement. I will back up mine that federal revenues are their lowest since 1950.

Chart of the day: U.S. taxes | Felix Salmon
 

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