Boehner...debt limit hike as a stand alone bill...

[mdn2000]

Why don't you carp at every single move the GOP makes? Why don't you gripe that they didnt cut enough, didnt cut the right things, didnt fix everything immediately?
You have close to zero credibility here because everything the GOP does is flawed while everythign the Dems do is fine or explainable by expedient.

Oh sweet irony.

This is exactly what happens when someone never owns up to their mistakes. The GOP royally screwed this country..never apologized or recognized what they did to get us here. Instead they repackaged themselves..and want to implement the same disastrous programs that got us into this mess.

Bush..when faced with a surplus..gave tax cuts...when taxes are at their lowest in almost 100 years.

He got rid of paygo.

What he could have down was pay down the debt..and kept paygo. But he started what would be the "Drunken Sailor" economic plan.

Yes, its all the republicans, the ultra rich democrats are the good guys, even as they sell businesses and technology to China the democrats are the good guys.

Taxes lowest in almost a 100 years, bullshit, pure bullshit.

More of the constant liberal onslaught of "they did it, they did it," what a bunch of whiners.

This is nothing more than pure political propaganda, fighting over meaningless bullshit.

There is only one problem in the USA, that is the politicians ability to collect money in every way they collect from fees to taxes.

Take the power to raise taxes from the government.

Take the power to borrow money away from everyone.

The Marxist wants to destroy the country so there is Anarchy and Revolution.

The Environmentalist wants to destroy the country because they hate human life and believe things would be better if we lived as cavemen, actually the environment whackos prefer all human life die besides themselves.

Seems lately, the only person who values life is the conservative.

 

[Paulie]

I saw that last night.

GOP: We don't give a fuck about anything but grandstanding so we look good. Fuck the US.

You do realize that voting against raising it will not cause us to default if we make necessary spending cuts to maintain a balance, right?

Voting against it will cause us to default, period. That's the reality of the situation.

That's the whole purpose of putting it up for a standalone vote. Let's see who's got the balls to cap the debt and make the hard choices on cuts at the same time.

It is not possible to make all the necessary cuts at the same time - unless you DON'T make it a standalone bill so you can include cuts along with it....oh, and those cuts need to take effect immediately, and they need to involve reneging on prior commitments of this same congress.

This is how we'll know who's telling the truth and who's playing the electorate for a fool.

The ones being fooled are those that believe we can implement a retroactive spending cap in order to prevent a debt limit increase. Those fools don't understand the first thing about government, budgets, the legislative process or economics. All they know is that Sarah Palin said increasing the debt limit is bad and therefore it's bad.

You're telling me that we can't reneg on whatever is still unspent from the stimulus, repeal the health care bill, and make 10% cuts across the entire budget, while still capping the debt limit?

I don't buy it. I haven't sat down and actually crunched the numbers because I just don't have that kind of time at the moment, but I really don't believe it's impossible.

And you don't know me well enough if you think I care any more about Palin than simply getting into her pants.

 

[Sallow]

Yes, its all the republicans, the ultra rich democrats are the good guys, even as they sell businesses and technology to China the democrats are the good guys.

Taxes lowest in almost a 100 years, bullshit, pure bullshit.

More of the constant liberal onslaught of "they did it, they did it," what a bunch of whiners.

This is nothing more than pure political propaganda, fighting over meaningless bullshit.

There is only one problem in the USA, that is the politicians ability to collect money in every way they collect from fees to taxes.

Take the power to raise taxes from the government.

Take the power to borrow money away from everyone.

The Marxist wants to destroy the country so there is Anarchy and Revolution.

The Environmentalist wants to destroy the country because they hate human life and believe things would be better if we lived as cavemen, actually the environment whackos prefer all human life die besides themselves.

Seems lately, the only person who values life is the conservative.

Defunding the government..will cause anarchy.

Or give power to corporate interests.

Neither of which is desirable in a Constitutional Democratic Republic.

And yes..it was Republicans that got us here. Almost every time there's been a Republican in the white house..we come out with these horrible economic outcomes.

 

[The Rabbi]

Why don't you carp at every single move the GOP makes? Why don't you gripe that they didnt cut enough, didnt cut the right things, didnt fix everything immediately?
You have close to zero credibility here because everything the GOP does is flawed while everythign the Dems do is fine or explainable by expedient.

Oh sweet irony.

This is exactly what happens when someone never owns up to their mistakes. The GOP royally screwed this country..never apologized or recognized what they did to get us here. Instead they repackaged themselves..and want to implement the same disastrous programs that got us into this mess.

Bush..when faced with a surplus..gave tax cuts...when taxes are at their lowest in almost 100 years.

He got rid of paygo.

What he could have down was pay down the debt..and kept paygo. But he started what would be the "Drunken Sailor" economic plan.

You continue to demonstrate a detachment from facts and an inability to learn.
Paygo is a congressional rule. Bush was not in Congress.
McCain apologized repeatedly for GOP mistakes on the trail.
The GOP's problem was acting like Democrats instead of Republicans. Now that Republicans wnat to act like Republicans you criticize them.

 

[The Rabbi]

Yes, its all the republicans, the ultra rich democrats are the good guys, even as they sell businesses and technology to China the democrats are the good guys.

Taxes lowest in almost a 100 years, bullshit, pure bullshit.

More of the constant liberal onslaught of "they did it, they did it," what a bunch of whiners.

This is nothing more than pure political propaganda, fighting over meaningless bullshit.

There is only one problem in the USA, that is the politicians ability to collect money in every way they collect from fees to taxes.

Take the power to raise taxes from the government.

Take the power to borrow money away from everyone.

The Marxist wants to destroy the country so there is Anarchy and Revolution.

The Environmentalist wants to destroy the country because they hate human life and believe things would be better if we lived as cavemen, actually the environment whackos prefer all human life die besides themselves.

Seems lately, the only person who values life is the conservative.

Defunding the government..will cause anarchy.

Or give power to corporate interests.

Neither of which is desirable in a Constitutional Democratic Republic.

And yes..it was Republicans that got us here. Almost every time there's been a Republican in the white house..we come out with these horrible economic outcomes.

No one is talking about defunding the government.

 

[Ravi]

You do realize that voting against raising it will not cause us to default if we make necessary spending cuts to maintain a balance, right?

Voting against it will cause us to default, period. That's the reality of the situation.



It is not possible to make all the necessary cuts at the same time - unless you DON'T make it a standalone bill so you can include cuts along with it....oh, and those cuts need to take effect immediately, and they need to involve reneging on prior commitments of this same congress.

This is how we'll know who's telling the truth and who's playing the electorate for a fool.

The ones being fooled are those that believe we can implement a retroactive spending cap in order to prevent a debt limit increase. Those fools don't understand the first thing about government, budgets, the legislative process or economics. All they know is that Sarah Palin said increasing the debt limit is bad and therefore it's bad.

You're telling me that we can't reneg on whatever is still unspent from the stimulus, repeal the health care bill, and make 10% cuts across the entire budget, while still capping the debt limit?

I don't buy it. I haven't sat down and actually crunched the numbers because I just don't have that kind of time at the moment, but I really don't believe it's impossible.

And you don't know me well enough if you think I care any more about Palin than simply getting into her pants.

Your grasp of reality is faulty. Not raising the debt limit would mean the government would have to cease operating sometime around next May.

So the GOPers either vote to shut down the government or vote to continue operating.

Should be interesting.

 

[Paulie]

Voting against it will cause us to default, period. That's the reality of the situation.



It is not possible to make all the necessary cuts at the same time - unless you DON'T make it a standalone bill so you can include cuts along with it....oh, and those cuts need to take effect immediately, and they need to involve reneging on prior commitments of this same congress.

The ones being fooled are those that believe we can implement a retroactive spending cap in order to prevent a debt limit increase. Those fools don't understand the first thing about government, budgets, the legislative process or economics. All they know is that Sarah Palin said increasing the debt limit is bad and therefore it's bad.

You're telling me that we can't reneg on whatever is still unspent from the stimulus, repeal the health care bill, and make 10% cuts across the entire budget, while still capping the debt limit?

I don't buy it. I haven't sat down and actually crunched the numbers because I just don't have that kind of time at the moment, but I really don't believe it's impossible.

And you don't know me well enough if you think I care any more about Palin than simply getting into her pants.

Your grasp of reality is faulty. Not raising the debt limit would mean the government would have to cease operating sometime around next May.

So the GOPers either vote to shut down the government or vote to continue operating.

Should be interesting.

Right, because it's just IMPOSSIBLE to cut enough spending to compensate.

How about pre-Bush levels? Is that too extreme for you?

I do believe we were doing pretty well before that, we certainly weren't "ceasing operation".

Or do you think the 4.5 Trillion spent during Bush was vital to our operation as a nation?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Oh sweet irony.

This is exactly what happens when someone never owns up to their mistakes. The GOP royally screwed this country..never apologized or recognized what they did to get us here. Instead they repackaged themselves..and want to implement the same disastrous programs that got us into this mess.

Bush..when faced with a surplus..gave tax cuts...when taxes are at their lowest in almost 100 years.

He got rid of paygo.

What he could have down was pay down the debt..and kept paygo. But he started what would be the "Drunken Sailor" economic plan.

You continue to demonstrate a detachment from facts and an inability to learn.
Paygo is a congressional rule. Bush was not in Congress.
McCain apologized repeatedly for GOP mistakes on the trail.
The GOP's problem was acting like Democrats instead of Republicans. Now that Republicans wnat to act like Republicans you criticize them.

PAYGO was passed in 1990.

Budget Enforcement Act of 1990 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

extended in 1993 and 1997.

PAYGO - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and expired, without another extension, in 2002, while Bush was president and the Republicans controlled Congress.

Then, lo and behold, the deficits began to return in force.

 

[NYcarbineer]

By God, yes, let's cut the deficit. First thing, no state gets more back from the Federal government than they sent in. That would eliminate a bunch of the deficit.

TaxProf Blog: Red States Feed at Federal Trough, Blue States Supply the Feed

States Receiving Most in Federal Spending Per Dollar of Federal Taxes Paid:

1. D.C. ($6.17)
2. North Dakota ($2.03)
3. New Mexico ($1.89)
4. Mississippi ($1.84)
5. Alaska ($1.82)
6. West Virginia ($1.74)
7. Montana ($1.64)
8. Alabama ($1.61)
9. South Dakota ($1.59)
10. Arkansas ($1.53)

In contrast, of the 16 states that are "losers" -- receiving less in federal spending than they pay in federal taxes -- 69% are Blue States that voted for Al Gore in 2000. Indeed, 11 of the 14 (79%) of the states receiving the least federal spending per dollar of federal taxes paid are Blue States. Here are the Top 10 states that supply feed for the federal trough (with Blue States highlighted in bold):

States Receiving Least in Federal Spending Per Dollar of Federal Taxes Paid:

1. New Jersey ($0.62)
2. Connecticut ($0.64)
3. New Hampshire ($0.68)
4. Nevada ($0.73)
5. Illinois ($0.77)
6. Minnesota ($0.77)
7. Colorado ($0.79)
8. Massachusetts ($0.79)
9. California ($0.81)
10. New York ($0.81)

Yes I think my state of NY could easily solve its budgetary problems if we could just get those red state leeches off our tit.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Plain and simple, we the people want our Government to get out of our living rooms and cut their stupid spending. Shouldn't be all that difficult to do. And all those little fees on phone bills, etc.... They are taxes.

 

[mdn2000]

Yes, its all the republicans, the ultra rich democrats are the good guys, even as they sell businesses and technology to China the democrats are the good guys.

Taxes lowest in almost a 100 years, bullshit, pure bullshit.

More of the constant liberal onslaught of "they did it, they did it," what a bunch of whiners.

This is nothing more than pure political propaganda, fighting over meaningless bullshit.

There is only one problem in the USA, that is the politicians ability to collect money in every way they collect from fees to taxes.

Take the power to raise taxes from the government.

Take the power to borrow money away from everyone.

The Marxist wants to destroy the country so there is Anarchy and Revolution.

The Environmentalist wants to destroy the country because they hate human life and believe things would be better if we lived as cavemen, actually the environment whackos prefer all human life die besides themselves.

Seems lately, the only person who values life is the conservative.

Defunding the government..will cause anarchy.

Or give power to corporate interests.

Neither of which is desirable in a Constitutional Democratic Republic.

And yes..it was Republicans that got us here. Almost every time there's been a Republican in the white house..we come out with these horrible economic outcomes.

Last time I checked Democrats have been in control for four years.

You mistook my post, I did not state de-fund, take away the power to tax, to add new taxes, take away the power to collect fees, take away the power to borrow against the future.

If democrats are good for the USA why is Detroit destroyed, from the sixth largest economy in the world to a poverty stricken welfare dump.

Look at Detroit, that is how great the democrats are. hell look at Los Angeles, 5$ a pound for hamburger and 4$ a pound for butter.

Nice job Democrats.

 

[NYcarbineer]

You're telling me that we can't reneg on whatever is still unspent from the stimulus, repeal the health care bill, and make 10% cuts across the entire budget, while still capping the debt limit?

I don't buy it. I haven't sat down and actually crunched the numbers because I just don't have that kind of time at the moment, but I really don't believe it's impossible.

And you don't know me well enough if you think I care any more about Palin than simply getting into her pants.

Your grasp of reality is faulty. Not raising the debt limit would mean the government would have to cease operating sometime around next May.

So the GOPers either vote to shut down the government or vote to continue operating.

Should be interesting.

Right, because it's just IMPOSSIBLE to cut enough spending to compensate.

How about pre-Bush levels? Is that too extreme for you?

I do believe we were doing pretty well before that, we certainly weren't "ceasing operation".

Or do you think the 4.5 Trillion spent during Bush was vital to our operation as a nation?

Your proposals immediately run up against a solid wall of conservative Republicans who will demand to take defense off the table.

 

[Sallow]

You continue to demonstrate a detachment from facts and an inability to learn.
Paygo is a congressional rule. Bush was not in Congress.
McCain apologized repeatedly for GOP mistakes on the trail.
The GOP's problem was acting like Democrats instead of Republicans. Now that Republicans wnat to act like Republicans you criticize them.

The president writes the budget and sets the agenda. The Republican..well conservative problem has been their problem for a very long time. It's the inate desire to consolidate power and wealth in to a small part of the population. It's pretty universal and crosses cultures.

 

[Sallow]

Last time I checked Democrats have been in control for four years.

You mistook my post, I did not state de-fund, take away the power to tax, to add new taxes, take away the power to collect fees, take away the power to borrow against the future.

If democrats are good for the USA why is Detroit destroyed, from the sixth largest economy in the world to a poverty stricken welfare dump.

Look at Detroit, that is how great the democrats are. hell look at Los Angeles, 5$ a pound for hamburger and 4$ a pound for butter.

Nice job Democrats.

Democrats controlled congress. The Republicans controlled the white house. But, Democrats seldom vote as a block..and the Republicans pretty much got their agenda through. President Bush has only used his veto power 12 times in 8 years. If his policies were not coming out of Congress..he would have vetoed a great deal more then he did.

And blaming Democrats..especially congressional democrats for "Detroit" is ridiculous. Manufacturers have been moving operations overseas and to Mexico for quite some time. This is mainly due to tax loop holes and lax regulation.

And $5 an lbs for hamburger? Where the heck are they shopping? We have stores like that in NYC. They are called "premium".

 

[Paulie]

Your grasp of reality is faulty. Not raising the debt limit would mean the government would have to cease operating sometime around next May.

So the GOPers either vote to shut down the government or vote to continue operating.

Should be interesting.

Right, because it's just IMPOSSIBLE to cut enough spending to compensate.

How about pre-Bush levels? Is that too extreme for you?

I do believe we were doing pretty well before that, we certainly weren't "ceasing operation".

Or do you think the 4.5 Trillion spent during Bush was vital to our operation as a nation?

Your proposals immediately run up against a solid wall of conservative Republicans who will demand to take defense off the table.

And that's what I meant earlier when I said this is how we'll see where the politicians are.

Most of the added debt since Bush took office came from defense spending, so if they're really serious about cutting spending then they will have to cut defense.

Ravi says that's a faulty grasp of reality. I guess that means she's ok with the trillions we've spent on war in the last 10 years.

The fact is, there's plenty of spending that can be cut to maintain operations with the debt ceiling being capped.

But there's been another 4 trillion added since Obama, and that's certainly not been all defense.

 

[8537]

You do realize that voting against raising it will not cause us to default if we make necessary spending cuts to maintain a balance, right?

Voting against it will cause us to default, period. That's the reality of the situation.



It is not possible to make all the necessary cuts at the same time - unless you DON'T make it a standalone bill so you can include cuts along with it....oh, and those cuts need to take effect immediately, and they need to involve reneging on prior commitments of this same congress.

This is how we'll know who's telling the truth and who's playing the electorate for a fool.

The ones being fooled are those that believe we can implement a retroactive spending cap in order to prevent a debt limit increase. Those fools don't understand the first thing about government, budgets, the legislative process or economics. All they know is that Sarah Palin said increasing the debt limit is bad and therefore it's bad.

You're telling me that we can't reneg on whatever is still unspent from the stimulus, repeal the health care bill, and make 10% cuts across the entire budget, while still capping the debt limit?

yes, I'm telling you we can't do that. I should also mention that it gets us nowhere near a place where we don't need the debt limit increase.

But props on the Palin comment...that was damn funny!

 

[mdn2000]

You continue to demonstrate a detachment from facts and an inability to learn.
Paygo is a congressional rule. Bush was not in Congress.
McCain apologized repeatedly for GOP mistakes on the trail.
The GOP's problem was acting like Democrats instead of Republicans. Now that Republicans wnat to act like Republicans you criticize them.

The president writes the budget and sets the agenda. The Republican..well conservative problem has been their problem for a very long time. It's the inate desire to consolidate power and wealth in to a small part of the population. It's pretty universal and crosses cultures.

If its the Republicans are rich how come its the Democrats in control of California. Lots of rich people in California, like Nancy Pelosi and Diane Fienstien, rich democrat industry like agriculture and oil, Al Gore's family even owns an oil company.

The democrats are rich corporations and politicians but they are not, how is that. Explain yourself.

 

[Paulie]

Voting against it will cause us to default, period. That's the reality of the situation.



It is not possible to make all the necessary cuts at the same time - unless you DON'T make it a standalone bill so you can include cuts along with it....oh, and those cuts need to take effect immediately, and they need to involve reneging on prior commitments of this same congress.



The ones being fooled are those that believe we can implement a retroactive spending cap in order to prevent a debt limit increase. Those fools don't understand the first thing about government, budgets, the legislative process or economics. All they know is that Sarah Palin said increasing the debt limit is bad and therefore it's bad.

You're telling me that we can't reneg on whatever is still unspent from the stimulus, repeal the health care bill, and make 10% cuts across the entire budget, while still capping the debt limit?

yes, I'm telling you we can't do that. I should also mention that it gets us nowhere near a place where we don't need the debt limit increase.

But props on the Palin comment...that was damn funny!

I'm going to need to see the numbers.

 

[8537]

You're telling me that we can't reneg on whatever is still unspent from the stimulus, repeal the health care bill, and make 10% cuts across the entire budget, while still capping the debt limit?

yes, I'm telling you we can't do that. I should also mention that it gets us nowhere near a place where we don't need the debt limit increase.

But props on the Palin comment...that was damn funny!

I'm going to need to see the numbers.

Some quick and dirty numbers: Let's say that on Jan 30th of next year, the debt limit is reached and no increase is passed.

The projected FY budget is about 3.55T. The deficit is projected at 1.4T. In other words, about 40% of all spending in this FY is generated by borrowing (increasing the debt). Tax revenues reach their peak in April - January and February see a bump, but the plurality comes in April. So everything else being equal, even in a balanced-budget environment the government would likely borrow in those months.

Stimulus spending, excluding the 40% of the measure that was tax cuts, is minimal in the first part of next year. Total ARRA spending for the year is somewhere in the range of 180B, so call it 15B per month.

Repealing the health care bill will not impact the short-term budgetary situation b/c although some regulations have come into effect, neither the spending nor the revenue generating portion have started.

Cutting 10% from the total budget would reduce the deficit for the year from to about 1.45T, or roughly the monthly deficit by 120B.

So...Let's say we abolish ARRA and cut by 10%. And let's presume that somehow revenues are evenly spread over the course of the year (knowing they are not...)

If we fail to increase the debt ceiling:
Revenues in January would equal 2.2T / 12 = 183 billion dollars.
Expenses in January would equal 3.55T/1.10 = 3.23T/12 = 269B - 15B ARRA savings = 254B

So, we'd 254B-183B short....

Or, said another way, we'd need to increase the debt ceiling by 71B just for the month of January alone - and that doesn't begin to account for the guaranteed payments already arranged. Or we could do as Rand pointed out, and just default.

 

[The Rabbi]

You continue to demonstrate a detachment from facts and an inability to learn.
Paygo is a congressional rule. Bush was not in Congress.
McCain apologized repeatedly for GOP mistakes on the trail.
The GOP's problem was acting like Democrats instead of Republicans. Now that Republicans wnat to act like Republicans you criticize them.

The president writes the budget and sets the agenda. The Republican..well conservative problem has been their problem for a very long time. It's the inate desire to consolidate power and wealth in to a small part of the population. It's pretty universal and crosses cultures.

Uh, no. Congress writes the budget and passes it. Congress institutes rules, like Paygo. Democrats want to consolidate power and wealth in a small entity called "government." Republicans want to diffuse power and wealth to a larger entity called "the people."
You consistently state misinformation and then look like an idiot trying to backtrack on it.