Bob Kerry On Afghanistan, Iraq, and 'The Prize'

[Annie]

He's not given up on Obama yet, but he's wavering:

Bob Kerrey: Obama's Nobel and His Obligation to Afghanistan - WSJ.com

Obama's Nobel and His Obligation to Afghanistan
When it comes to moral reputation, almost nothing matters more than keeping your word.
By BOB KERREY

In a wonderfully stunning decision, the Nobel Committee in Oslo awarded our president its Peace Prize. They said the award was as much for the hope that he will contribute to a more peaceful world as it was for any specific accomplishment during his first nine months in office.

This is the same hope I had when I voted for President Barack Obama, contributed to him financially, and campaigned for him in a few states. I believed he could successfully manage the process of U.S. withdrawal from Iraq. I believed he would help build a bridge to the Muslim world. And I believed he would bring his unique story to inspire us to overcome our divisiveness. I still hold fast to these beliefs, in spite of the fact that his presidency already seems to have brought out the worst in some.

By awarding the prize to Mr. Obama, the Nobel committee also surely hoped to influence the debate about U.S. policy in Afghanistan. I wish they had waited until the debate was settled here at home. My wish is based on a fear that American political leaders are about to talk themselves into breaking yet another foreign policy commitment.

In December 2006, President George W. Bush was faced with a similarly difficult foreign policy decision. The Republicans had suffered tremendous losses in the November election, in part because of the conduct of the war in Iraq. At the time, the unpopular Republican president was being pressured by ascendant congressional Democrats and some members of his own party into withdrawing from Iraq. Failure in Iraq loomed, as public opinion for the effort to help the democratically elected government survive had faded thanks to a series of tactical blunders and inaccurate assessments of what would be needed to accomplish the mission.

Then, against all reasonable predictions, President Bush chose to increase rather than decrease our military commitment. The "surge," as it became known, worked. Victory was snatched from the jaws of defeat....

 

[jillian]

That's what you take from that article?

Amazing how you can trash a discussion before it even begins.....

 

[Annie]

That's what you take from that article?

Amazing how you can trash a discussion before it even begins.....

Great response, no one would be shocked that we might have a different reading on something. On the other hand, I managed to get my analysis across with few words. You however only attack the poster.

 

[Bfgrn]

Bob Kerrey: Obama's Nobel and His Obligation to Afghanistan - WSJ.com

While success in Afghanistan may not look the same as it does in Iraq, I believe there is a very good chance that a stable democracy can survive there.

There are four primary components of any foreign policy: vision and strategy; quality of the leadership team; domestic strength; and capacity to manage crises. Weakness in any of these realms can lead to overall failure.

On vision, President Obama is very inspiring. He has given moderates in Muslim countries room to move by speaking to them directly and respectfully, while at the same time continuing to wage an aggressive and necessary battle against radical Islamists who have declared war on the U.S. However, he has made too many apologies. And at this point, his strategy is too naïve and has too little coherence to be called a strategy. If the issue of foreign policy had been more important in his presidential campaign—and therefore important to the electorate—I might be more critical. And if I weren't a supporter, my judgment would be harsher. But in this realm, I'm still hoping for improvement.

On the quality of the leadership team he has recruited, President Obama has excelled. Across the board, from Secretary of Defense Robert Gates to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, the president has assembled an exceptional team. Their depth of experience and intellect provide him the kind of judgment and analysis he needs to make tough choices.

President Obama's lack of domestic strength is his biggest problem. His actions to stabilize the financial system prevented an economic meltdown of dire proportions. However, our economy is still very fragile. Our public debt is growing at the fastest rate since the World War II, the dollar is weakening, and economic experts are making ominous statements about the possibility of our currency being replaced as the world currency of choice. Anxiety over unemployment and the devaluation of assets has contributed to America's unwillingness to support much of anything that doesn't contribute directly to our recovery.

---------------------------------------------

Really Bob...WHO is naïve? A "a very good chance that a stable democracy can survive there"... in THIS century???

BTW BOB...HOW are we going to PAY for THIS, considering "our economy is still very fragile. Our public debt is growing at the fastest rate since the World War II, the dollar is weakening, and economic experts are making ominous statements about the possibility of our currency being replaced as the world currency of choice."


"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful...They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
George W. Bush

 

[PatekPhilippe]

He's not given up on Obama yet, but he's wavering:

Bob Kerrey: Obama's Nobel and His Obligation to Afghanistan - WSJ.com

Obama's Nobel and His Obligation to Afghanistan
When it comes to moral reputation, almost nothing matters more than keeping your word.
By BOB KERREY

In a wonderfully stunning decision, the Nobel Committee in Oslo awarded our president its Peace Prize. They said the award was as much for the hope that he will contribute to a more peaceful world as it was for any specific accomplishment during his first nine months in office.

This is the same hope I had when I voted for President Barack Obama, contributed to him financially, and campaigned for him in a few states. I believed he could successfully manage the process of U.S. withdrawal from Iraq. I believed he would help build a bridge to the Muslim world. And I believed he would bring his unique story to inspire us to overcome our divisiveness. I still hold fast to these beliefs, in spite of the fact that his presidency already seems to have brought out the worst in some.

By awarding the prize to Mr. Obama, the Nobel committee also surely hoped to influence the debate about U.S. policy in Afghanistan. I wish they had waited until the debate was settled here at home. My wish is based on a fear that American political leaders are about to talk themselves into breaking yet another foreign policy commitment.

In December 2006, President George W. Bush was faced with a similarly difficult foreign policy decision. The Republicans had suffered tremendous losses in the November election, in part because of the conduct of the war in Iraq. At the time, the unpopular Republican president was being pressured by ascendant congressional Democrats and some members of his own party into withdrawing from Iraq. Failure in Iraq loomed, as public opinion for the effort to help the democratically elected government survive had faded thanks to a series of tactical blunders and inaccurate assessments of what would be needed to accomplish the mission.

Then, against all reasonable predictions, President Bush chose to increase rather than decrease our military commitment. The "surge," as it became known, worked. Victory was snatched from the jaws of defeat....

I do have a lot of respect for Mr. Kerry. He is a Congressional Medal of Honor winner and a team mate. His opinion is welcome in this debate over Afghanistan as he has walked the walk.
This particular quote is quite telling:

However, he has made too many apologies. And at this point, his strategy is too naïve and has too little coherence to be called a strategy.

He is of the same mind as over 50% of Americans with respect to this and he's spot on the money with this comment:

President Obama's lack of domestic strength is his biggest problem. His actions to stabilize the financial system prevented an economic meltdown of dire proportions. However, our economy is still very fragile. Our public debt is growing at the fastest rate since the World War II, the dollar is weakening, and economic experts are making ominous statements about the possibility of our currency being replaced as the world currency of choice. Anxiety over unemployment and the devaluation of assets has contributed to America's unwillingness to support much of anything that doesn't contribute directly to our recovery.

I hope Obama listens to this man. He knows what he's talking about.

 

[Bfgrn]

I do have a lot of respect for Mr. Kerry. He is a Congressional Medal of Honor winner and a team mate. His opinion is welcome in this debate over Afghanistan as he has walked the walk.
This particular quote is quite telling:

However, he has made too many apologies. And at this point, his strategy is too naïve and has too little coherence to be called a strategy.

He is of the same mind as over 50% of Americans with respect to this and he's spot on the money with this comment:

President Obama's lack of domestic strength is his biggest problem. His actions to stabilize the financial system prevented an economic meltdown of dire proportions. However, our economy is still very fragile. Our public debt is growing at the fastest rate since the World War II, the dollar is weakening, and economic experts are making ominous statements about the possibility of our currency being replaced as the world currency of choice. Anxiety over unemployment and the devaluation of assets has contributed to America's unwillingness to support much of anything that doesn't contribute directly to our recovery.

I hope Obama listens to this man. He knows what he's talking about.

A TEAM mate...

Thanh Phong Massacre

In 2001, the New York Times Magazine and 60 Minutes II carried reports on an incident that occurred during Kerrey's Vietnam War service. On February 25, 1969, he led a Swift Boat raid on the isolated peasant village of Thanh Phong, Vietnam, targeting a Viet Cong leader that intelligence suggested would be present. The village was considered part of a free-fire zone by the U.S. military.

Kerrey's SEAL team first encountered a peasant house, or hooch, and killed the people inside with knives. While Kerrey says he did not go inside the hooch and did not participate in the killings, another member of the team, Gerhard Klann, said that the people killed there were an elderly man and woman and three children under 12, and that Kerrey helped kill the man. Despite the differing recollections about who actually stabbed these people, Kerrey accepts responsibility as the team leader for their deaths: "Standard operating procedure was to dispose of the people we made contact with," he told the New York Times Magazine. Later, according to Kerrey, the team was shot at from the village and returned fire, only to find after the battle that all the dead were women and children, clustered together in the center of the village. "The thing that I will remember until the day I die is walking in and finding, I don't know, 14 or so, I don't even know what the number was, women and children who were dead," Kerrey said in 1998. "I was expecting to find Vietcong soldiers with weapons, dead. Instead I found women and children."[3] Klann, and a Vietnamese woman, Pham Tri Lanh, who says she witnessed the assault, gave a different account, saying that the SEALs rounded up the inhabitants of the village and shot them.
wiki

Preventive war was an invention of Hitler. Frankly, I would not even listen to anyone seriously that came and talked about such a thing.
Dwight D. Eisenhower

 

[PatekPhilippe]

I do have a lot of respect for Mr. Kerry. He is a Congressional Medal of Honor winner and a team mate. His opinion is welcome in this debate over Afghanistan as he has walked the walk.
This particular quote is quite telling:

However, he has made too many apologies. And at this point, his strategy is too naïve and has too little coherence to be called a strategy.

He is of the same mind as over 50% of Americans with respect to this and he's spot on the money with this comment:

President Obama's lack of domestic strength is his biggest problem. His actions to stabilize the financial system prevented an economic meltdown of dire proportions. However, our economy is still very fragile. Our public debt is growing at the fastest rate since the World War II, the dollar is weakening, and economic experts are making ominous statements about the possibility of our currency being replaced as the world currency of choice. Anxiety over unemployment and the devaluation of assets has contributed to America's unwillingness to support much of anything that doesn't contribute directly to our recovery.

I hope Obama listens to this man. He knows what he's talking about.

A TEAM mate...

Thanh Phong Massacre

In 2001, the New York Times Magazine and 60 Minutes II carried reports on an incident that occurred during Kerrey's Vietnam War service. On February 25, 1969, he led a Swift Boat raid on the isolated peasant village of Thanh Phong, Vietnam, targeting a Viet Cong leader that intelligence suggested would be present. The village was considered part of a free-fire zone by the U.S. military.

Kerrey's SEAL team first encountered a peasant house, or hooch, and killed the people inside with knives. While Kerrey says he did not go inside the hooch and did not participate in the killings, another member of the team, Gerhard Klann, said that the people killed there were an elderly man and woman and three children under 12, and that Kerrey helped kill the man. Despite the differing recollections about who actually stabbed these people, Kerrey accepts responsibility as the team leader for their deaths: "Standard operating procedure was to dispose of the people we made contact with," he told the New York Times Magazine. Later, according to Kerrey, the team was shot at from the village and returned fire, only to find after the battle that all the dead were women and children, clustered together in the center of the village. "The thing that I will remember until the day I die is walking in and finding, I don't know, 14 or so, I don't even know what the number was, women and children who were dead," Kerrey said in 1998. "I was expecting to find Vietcong soldiers with weapons, dead. Instead I found women and children."[3] Klann, and a Vietnamese woman, Pham Tri Lanh, who says she witnessed the assault, gave a different account, saying that the SEALs rounded up the inhabitants of the village and shot them.
wiki

Preventive war was an invention of Hitler. Frankly, I would not even listen to anyone seriously that came and talked about such a thing.
Dwight D. Eisenhower

What's the problem....looks like a successful Op to me.....Obviously the voting public in Nebraska thought so too.

 

[Bfgrn]

I do have a lot of respect for Mr. Kerry. He is a Congressional Medal of Honor winner and a team mate. His opinion is welcome in this debate over Afghanistan as he has walked the walk.
This particular quote is quite telling:

He is of the same mind as over 50% of Americans with respect to this and he's spot on the money with this comment:


I hope Obama listens to this man. He knows what he's talking about.

A TEAM mate...

Thanh Phong Massacre

In 2001, the New York Times Magazine and 60 Minutes II carried reports on an incident that occurred during Kerrey's Vietnam War service. On February 25, 1969, he led a Swift Boat raid on the isolated peasant village of Thanh Phong, Vietnam, targeting a Viet Cong leader that intelligence suggested would be present. The village was considered part of a free-fire zone by the U.S. military.

Kerrey's SEAL team first encountered a peasant house, or hooch, and killed the people inside with knives. While Kerrey says he did not go inside the hooch and did not participate in the killings, another member of the team, Gerhard Klann, said that the people killed there were an elderly man and woman and three children under 12, and that Kerrey helped kill the man. Despite the differing recollections about who actually stabbed these people, Kerrey accepts responsibility as the team leader for their deaths: "Standard operating procedure was to dispose of the people we made contact with," he told the New York Times Magazine. Later, according to Kerrey, the team was shot at from the village and returned fire, only to find after the battle that all the dead were women and children, clustered together in the center of the village. "The thing that I will remember until the day I die is walking in and finding, I don't know, 14 or so, I don't even know what the number was, women and children who were dead," Kerrey said in 1998. "I was expecting to find Vietcong soldiers with weapons, dead. Instead I found women and children."[3] Klann, and a Vietnamese woman, Pham Tri Lanh, who says she witnessed the assault, gave a different account, saying that the SEALs rounded up the inhabitants of the village and shot them.
wiki

Preventive war was an invention of Hitler. Frankly, I would not even listen to anyone seriously that came and talked about such a thing.
Dwight D. Eisenhower

What's the problem....looks like a successful Op to me.....Obviously the voting public in Nebraska thought so too.

Killing women, children and non-combatants is a "successful Op"

Please remind me HOW your views differ from al Qaeda, the Taliban and Hamas???

Oh, it has to do with YOUR nationalism...

Nationalism is based on latitude, longitude and date of birth.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

A TEAM mate...

Thanh Phong Massacre

In 2001, the New York Times Magazine and 60 Minutes II carried reports on an incident that occurred during Kerrey's Vietnam War service. On February 25, 1969, he led a Swift Boat raid on the isolated peasant village of Thanh Phong, Vietnam, targeting a Viet Cong leader that intelligence suggested would be present. The village was considered part of a free-fire zone by the U.S. military.

Kerrey's SEAL team first encountered a peasant house, or hooch, and killed the people inside with knives. While Kerrey says he did not go inside the hooch and did not participate in the killings, another member of the team, Gerhard Klann, said that the people killed there were an elderly man and woman and three children under 12, and that Kerrey helped kill the man. Despite the differing recollections about who actually stabbed these people, Kerrey accepts responsibility as the team leader for their deaths: "Standard operating procedure was to dispose of the people we made contact with," he told the New York Times Magazine. Later, according to Kerrey, the team was shot at from the village and returned fire, only to find after the battle that all the dead were women and children, clustered together in the center of the village. "The thing that I will remember until the day I die is walking in and finding, I don't know, 14 or so, I don't even know what the number was, women and children who were dead," Kerrey said in 1998. "I was expecting to find Vietcong soldiers with weapons, dead. Instead I found women and children."[3] Klann, and a Vietnamese woman, Pham Tri Lanh, who says she witnessed the assault, gave a different account, saying that the SEALs rounded up the inhabitants of the village and shot them.
wiki

Preventive war was an invention of Hitler. Frankly, I would not even listen to anyone seriously that came and talked about such a thing.
Dwight D. Eisenhower

What's the problem....looks like a successful Op to me.....Obviously the voting public in Nebraska thought so too.

Killing women, children and non-combatants is a "successful Op"

Please remind me HOW your views differ from al Qaeda, the Taliban and Hamas???

Oh, it has to do with YOUR nationalism...

Nationalism is based on latitude, longitude and date of birth.

War is hell Bfgrn...no one's making excuses for what happened. Sometimes there are casualties that aren't meant to be. YOU were not on the ground in that village therefore YOU have no right to judge the man. Let his God judge him when the time comes. In the mean time the Nebraska voters accepted his version of the story and moved on. I would suggest you do as well.

Where is your outrage at the women and children killed a few weeks ago by Obama ordering a Predator strike on a supposed Taliban Commander's house? As it turns out he killed an AFGHAN Army commander's (who is on OUR SIDE) wife, his son and his wife's pregnant (9 months) sister!
Please stow your phony outrage at an incident that happened 40 years ago.

 

[Bfgrn]

What's the problem....looks like a successful Op to me.....Obviously the voting public in Nebraska thought so too.

Killing women, children and non-combatants is a "successful Op"

Please remind me HOW your views differ from al Qaeda, the Taliban and Hamas???

Oh, it has to do with YOUR nationalism...

Nationalism is based on latitude, longitude and date of birth.

War is hell Bfgrn...no one's making excuses for what happened. Sometimes there are casualties that aren't meant to be. YOU were not on the ground in that village therefore YOU have no right to judge the man. Let his God judge him when the time comes. In the mean time the Nebraska voters accepted his version of the story and moved on. I would suggest you do as well.

Where is your outrage at the women and children killed a few weeks ago by Obama ordering a Predator strike on a supposed Taliban Commander's house? As it turns out he killed an AFGHAN Army commander's (who is on OUR SIDE) wife, his son and his wife's pregnant (9 months) sister!
Please stow your phony outrage at an incident that happened 40 years ago.

I AM outraged at the women and children killed a few weeks ago by Obama ordering a Predator strike on a supposed Taliban Commander's house... but MORE importantly the AFGHANS are outraged and the sentiment in Afghanistan is turning against America...

Killing women and children will do that...

I hope President Obama DOESN'T listen to baby killer Bob Kerrey...

BTW pea brain, God will also judge YOU on your morality...

YOU right wing killing cheerleaders better hope God looks like THIS...

Otherwise, you and BOB can roast your weenies together...

"War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today."
John F. Kennedy

 

[Ame®icano]

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Ha ha ha ha ha
Too funny.

Guess what...Bob Kerrey got a Bronze Star for that Op in Thanh Phong. The citation read 21 Viet Cong killed. That's what happens in a free fire zone.

 

[jillian]

Killing women, children and non-combatants is a "successful Op"

Please remind me HOW your views differ from al Qaeda, the Taliban and Hamas???

Oh, it has to do with YOUR nationalism...

Nationalism is based on latitude, longitude and date of birth.

women and children get killed in war. the question is less who gets killed than it is who are the TARGETS of any attack. Are the targets military and strategic targets? If yes, then the attack is a legitimate military option.

THAT is the difference between us and Hamas and the Taliban. We don't "TARGET" civilians.

Your inability to assess the difference makes you look sily ... and makes people on the left look really stupid.

And while nationalism is based on latitude, longitude and date of birth, there are legitimate reasons for some military actions. Before you have credibility, you need to show you know the difference between those times where military action is necessary and where it isn't.

 

[Bfgrn]

Killing women, children and non-combatants is a "successful Op"

Please remind me HOW your views differ from al Qaeda, the Taliban and Hamas???

Oh, it has to do with YOUR nationalism...

Nationalism is based on latitude, longitude and date of birth.

women and children get killed in war. the question is less who gets killed than it is who are the TARGETS of any attack. Are the targets military and strategic targets? If yes, then the attack is a legitimate military option.

THAT is the difference between us and Hamas and the Taliban. We don't "TARGET" civilians.

Your inability to assess the difference makes you look sily ... and makes people on the left look really stupid.

And while nationalism is based on latitude, longitude and date of birth, there are legitimate reasons for some military actions. Before you have credibility, you need to show you know the difference between those times where military action is necessary and where it isn't.

First of all Jillian, I represent ME, not YOU or ANYONE that calls themselves right or left...I don't look for your approval, do we have that straight pea brain?

Women and children get killed in war, THAT is WHY America should never START a war.

When we kill women and children in the name of America, we are NO BETTER than the Taliban or Hamas, nationalist arrogance is NOT an excuse...Do you REALLY believe God will accept that LAME excuse pea brain???

"the difference between those times where military action is necessary and where it isn't"

WWII after Japan attacked our Naval forces at Pearl Harbor...

Seeking out the people that attacked us on 9/11 SHOULD have been handled by special forces, NOT a war...

NONE after that...

NOW Jillian, defend your ignorant pea brain war mongering killing of innocent human beings...

"What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty and democracy?"
Gandhi

 

[Bfgrn]

Ha ha ha ha ha
Too funny.

Guess what...Bob Kerrey got a Bronze Star for that Op in Thanh Phong. The citation read 21 Viet Cong killed. That's what happens in a free fire zone.

SO, the "state" approved... calming only for "statists"

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Ha ha ha ha ha
Too funny.

Guess what...Bob Kerrey got a Bronze Star for that Op in Thanh Phong. The citation read 21 Viet Cong killed. That's what happens in a free fire zone.

SO, the "state" approved... calming only for "statists"

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