Bloomberg Oversteps On Second Amendment

[Annie]

Wow, just wow! It's a pdf, so I have to post this to link:

http://instapundit.com/archives2/2007/02/post_2299.php

February 06, 2007

MIKE BLOOMBERG'S FIREARMS STRAW PURCHASES are under investigation by the ATF, according to a letter from the Department of Justice.

 

[Merlin]

Wow, just wow! It's a pdf, so I have to post this to link:

http://instapundit.com/archives2/2007/02/post_2299.php

I must have lost something overnight because I'm not sure what this post is all about. Sounds interesting though. Could you explain it to me please?

 

[Annie]

I must have lost something overnight because I'm not sure what this post is all about. Sounds interesting though. Could you explain it to me please?

I can't 'excerpt' it's a pdf. Just click and open.

 

[Merlin]

I can't 'excerpt' it's a pdf. Just click and open.

I did open it and read it, but don't understand it.

 

[LOki]

I must have lost something overnight because I'm not sure what this post is all about. Sounds interesting though. Could you explain it to me please?

CLICK HERE to view the document in question.

 

[Annie]

I did open it and read it, but don't understand it.

What is it you find confusing about the 2nd amendment? That Bloomberg sent strawmen to test gun laws? That Justice is investigating? What's so tough?

 

[Merlin]

What is it you find confusing about the 2nd amendment? That Bloomberg sent strawmen to test gun laws? That Justice is investigating? What's so tough?

I understand the second amendment as I interpret it and how I think our forefathers meant it, I just don't understand what Blomberg is doing and why/if the justice dept. is investigating anything and why. Are they trying to find out how guns are being sold, who to, what kind, how many, if so, why, if not, why not? Are they trying to find out who is carrying them, using them, selling without license?
Thanks anyway Kathianne, you don't have to explain this one, I will just skip over it because most people I know ignore all gun laws anyway.

 

[William Joyce]

Bloomberg wants to blame NY gun violence on white, southern men down in Georgia who SELL THEM instead of the black and Hispanic thugs in Harlem who FIRE THEM.

That's what's going on.

 

[Annie]

Bloomberg wants to blame NY gun violence on white, southern men down in Georgia who SELL THEM instead of the black and Hispanic thugs in Harlem who FIRE THEM.

That's what's going on.

Bingo!

 

[LOki]

Bingo!

It is ever the way of those too timid to confront the reality of violence--as well as those whose critique of violent actions is hypocritically disingenuous.

 

[Little-Acorn]

If I go to a sporting goods store, or a gun store, and buy a .22 rifle, and give it to my son for his birthday, I'll go to jail and have a felony conviction on my record for the rest of my life. I'll lost the right to vote, and of course the right to ever own a gun again. Any guns I own will be confiscated, with no hope of return to me or to any member of my family.

You didn't know this?

 

[Annie]

It is ever the way of those too timid to confront the reality of violence--as well as those whose critique of violent actions is hypocritically disingenuous.

OK.

 

[LOki]

If I go to a sporting goods store, or a gun store, and buy a .22 rifle, and give it to my son for his birthday, I'll go to jail and have a felony conviction on my record for the rest of my life. I'll lost the right to vote, and of course the right to ever own a gun again. Any guns I own will be confiscated, with no hope of return to me or to any member of my family.

You didn't know this?

It's apparenty not the case if you claim your purchase was for the purpose of exposing the gun nut who sold you that miniature sniper rifle for the WMD dealing terrorist he is--then you get to be Mayor of NYC.

 

[Merlin]

If I go to a sporting goods store, or a gun store, and buy a .22 rifle, and give it to my son for his birthday, I'll go to jail and have a felony conviction on my record for the rest of my life. I'll lost the right to vote, and of course the right to ever own a gun again. Any guns I own will be confiscated, with no hope of return to me or to any member of my family.

You didn't know this?

Why go to a gun store? Buy a used one. There's thousands upon thousands sold every day that nobody knows about. I've bought 2 new ones in my life and God only knows who owns them now. And why would you go to jail for giving your son a .22 rifle? What state has laws like that? I just gave my 9 year old Grandson a .22 Baby Browning semi automatic.

 

[Annie]

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/495852p-417714c.html

New York Daily News - http://www.nydailynews.com
Feds shoot down Mike's gun suit
BY MICHAEL SAUL
DAILY NEWS CITY HALL BUREAU CHIEF
Thursday, February 8th, 2007

The federal government will not file criminal charges against any of the 15 out-of-state gun dealers accused by Mayor Bloomberg in a federal lawsuit of selling guns illegally, the Daily News has learned.

In a stern rebuke to the city's high-profile crusade against illegal guns, the feds warned the Bloomberg administration that it could face "potential legal liabilities" if it continues to conduct sting operations that fall within the jurisdiction of federal agents.

Bloomberg announced the filing of a federal lawsuit last May against 15 gun dealers, who he lambasted as the "worst of the worst." The city later filed a similar lawsuit against another 12 dealers.

In both cases, the city sent private investigators to gun dealers and secretly videotaped them making what Bloomberg called illegal "straw purchases."

A "straw purchase" refers to when an individual talks with a store clerk about purchasing a gun, but then gets another person to fill out the required federal forms and undergo the mandatory background check.

According to a letter sent to City Hall, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and various U.S. attorneys' offices have determined the city's findings against the 15 dealers "do not rise to a level that would support a criminal prosecution."

The letter - sent Tuesday by Michael Battle, director of the executive office for United States Attorneys at the Department of Justice - also scolded City Hall for engaging in sting operations involving persons "without proper law enforcement authority," saying that could put the city in legal jeopardy. Battle added that City Hall could "unintentionally interrupt or jeopardize" criminal probes.

Asked if the Bloomberg administration plans to stop conducting the sting operations, Deputy Mayor Ed Skyler said, "Not necessarily."

"The city hasn't violated any laws," Skyler said defiantly, adding that the city will continue to pursue its civil lawsuits against the gun dealers.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Bingo!

Dear lady, I am simply shocked to see you in race-baiting company of Sweet William. Individuals who sell firearms in contravention of state and federal bear no small share of the responsibility for the manner in which such firearms are misused. If they actually enforced the laws on the books, this wouldn't be an issue.

 

[Annie]

Dear lady, I am simply shocked to see you in race-baiting company of Sweet William. Individuals who sell firearms in contravention of state and federal bear no small share of the responsibility for the manner in which such firearms are misused. If they actually enforced the laws on the books, this wouldn't be an issue.

Why should there be those laws? While I have never owned or shot a gun, I am for every person's right to bear arms, except felons.

 

[Annie]

A bit of a follow up:

http://townhall.com/columnists/CamEdwards/2007/02/09/bloombergs_smackdown_in_gotham

Bloomberg's Smackdown in Gotham
By Cam Edwards
Friday, February 9, 2007

New York Mayor Mike Bloomberg’s war on gun owners received a major hit yesterday, courtesy of the U.S. Justice Department, but Bloomberg is so far refusing to back down. A letter by Michael Battle, director of the executive office for United States Attorneys at the Department of Justice, has been made public and it paints a blistering attack on Bloomberg’s actions over the past several months.

Back in May of 2006, Bloomberg announced he was suing 15 out-of-state gun dealers for allegedly conducting “straw purchases”, or illegally selling a firearm to one person knowing that’s actually going to be used by someone else. At the time Bloomberg announced his lawsuits, he’d already refused requests by the firearms industry to work alongside one another to stop straw purchases.

Instead, Bloomberg sent civilian private investigators into gun stores across the country, and had the investigators pose as straw purchasers. Bloomberg never informed the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives about the sting operations, and when the stings were announced, several law enforcement officials said as many as eighteen active law enforcement investigations were put in jeopardy.

For months the ATF was silent on the matter, but recently disclosed that an investigation into Bloomberg’s actions was taking place. Now the Battle letter, first made public by the New York Daily News, details the problems with Bloomberg’s attacks on firearms dealers.

According to the Daily News, none of the gun dealers Bloomberg is suing broke federal law and took part in straw purchase transactions. The letter also took Bloomberg to task for conducting these stings "without proper law enforcement authority," though there is no indication that BATFE or the Justice Department would seek to file charges against Bloomberg or his civilian private investigators. Instead, the letter warns that Bloomberg’s operations could put the city at risk of legal action. ...

 

[Little-Acorn]

Why go to a gun store? Buy a used one. There's thousands upon thousands sold every day that nobody knows about. I've bought 2 new ones in my life and God only knows who owns them now.

I don't know about other states, but here in Calif ALL gun purchases, whether at dealers, private, new, used, or etc., must be taken to dealers and a number of forms filled out, for submission to the government. Then a waiting period starts (I believe it's currently 10 days), where the dealer keeps the gun, and you come back after it's over. Even if you didn't buy the gun at that dealer.

Dealers typically charge anywhere from $50 to $150 for this "service". Happens for every gun purchased in California, new, used, private, or otherwise. Surely this isn't news.

And why would you go to jail for giving your son a .22 rifle?

Ask the people who passed the law.

What state has laws like that?

It's Federal. The Gun Control Act of 1968 mandated it. Passed shortly after the assassinations of RFK and Martin Luther King Jr., when fear and hysteria were at their highest, and signed by then-President Lyndon Johnson.

I just gave my 9 year old Grandson a .22 Baby Browning semi automatic.

I wouldn't talk about it if I were you.

Yes, seriously. Apparently you were unaware, but thousands of people have gone into Federal prison in this country, on felony charges, for doing exactly that.

You might want to check out a U.S. Senate report compiled in 1982, describing the actions of various government gun police agencies such as BATF. The Senators themselves found that ATF was regularly baiting otherwise-innocent gun purchasers into illegal acts and jailing them; going after individuals with no criminal intent or history, and generally abusing their authority to the hilt. This report was published in 1982... but then no more copies were made, and has not been addressed in the Senate since. But today you can find it on the Internet in a number of places, such as http://www.constitution.org/mil/rkba1982.htm .

The Senate committee was chaired by Strom Thurmond, and included members like Orrin Hatch, Bob Dole, Teddy Kennedy, Arlen Specter, Robert Byrd, and Joe Biden.

Please tell me you already knew about these things.

 

[Merlin]

I don't know about other states, but here in Calif ALL gun purchases, whether at dealers, private, new, used, or etc., must be taken to dealers and a number of forms filled out, for submission to the government. Then a waiting period starts (I believe it's currently 10 days), where the dealer keeps the gun, and you come back after it's over. Even if you didn't buy the gun at that dealer.

Dealers typically charge anywhere from $50 to $150 for this "service". Happens for every gun purchased in California, new, used, private, or otherwise. Surely this isn't news.


Ask the people who passed the law.


It's Federal. The Gun Control Act of 1968 mandated it. Passed shortly after the assassinations of RFK and Martin Luther King Jr., when fear and hysteria were at their highest, and signed by then-President Lyndon Johnson.


I wouldn't talk about it if I were you.

Yes, seriously. Apparently you were unaware, but thousands of people have gone into Federal prison in this country, on felony charges, for doing exactly that.

You might want to check out a U.S. Senate report compiled in 1982, describing the actions of various government gun police agencies such as BATF. The Senators themselves found that ATF was regularly baiting otherwise-innocent gun purchasers into illegal acts and jailing them; going after individuals with no criminal intent or history, and generally abusing their authority to the hilt. This report was published in 1982... but then no more copies were made, and has not been addressed in the Senate since. But today you can find it on the Internet in a number of places, such as http://www.constitution.org/mil/rkba1982.htm .

The Senate committee was chaired by Strom Thurmond, and included members like Orrin Hatch, Bob Dole, Teddy Kennedy, Arlen Specter, Robert Byrd, and Joe Biden.

Please tell me you already knew about these things.

This is the first time I've heard about most of the stuff you are saying. Here, we buy, sell, or trade all the time. When the time comes that I can't give my 9 year old son/grandson/nephew a .22 rifle, it's all over for me for I refuse to even think about obeying any laws like that. Thats when I stop participating. I do know that if you buy a new one, the store registers it with the state. That is why they are bought and sold to individuals. This is just a wild guess, but I don't think 1 percent of the guns bought, sold, or traded are registered. There are some in California that I bought and/or sold in the early 60s when I lived there. But that was before 1968. Giving 9 year year olds their first .22 is a tradition, so 3/th's of the population here would be in jail. Hand guns and high powered rifles are a no no though.