Blood Pressure Alert!

Annie

Diamond Member
Nov 22, 2003
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http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/paynter/216092_paynter16.html

School's stage was set for a stark lesson

By SUSAN PAYNTER
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER COLUMNIST

Three invited pro-military speakers were shocked last Friday when they arrived for a West Seattle High student assembly to confront a theater stage strewn with figures costumed as Iraqi men, women and children splashed with blood.

It was a warm-up for the "Iraq Awareness Assembly" so no students except the actual actors saw the skit before the military guests complained to principal Susan Derse and she put a stop to it. And here comes the crucial part: no teachers or advisers were on hand or evidently even aware of the content although that part is one of several things still under investigation.

What happened at West Seattle High was troubling and messy, to be sure. But it also was educational, if you don't mind learning the hard way. Lessons don't all come neatly packaged. Sometimes they come laced with pain, anger, regret and conflicting passions.

In the aftermath of the assembly, students, administrators and staff are learning, among other things, just how deep run the emotional divisions behind the bumper stickers they may encounter in the school parking lot.

"War is terrorism!," "No Iraq War!" and "Not in My Name!" some slogans say. "Land of the Free Because of the Brave!," "My Daughter Is Serving in Iraq" and "Proud American, Embarrassed Washingtonian (with photos of Sen. Patty Murray and Rep. Jim McDermott)" others declare.

For Nadine Gulit of Operation Support Our Troops, the spectacle was sickening.

She had been asked by student organizers to provide three speakers and she delivered.

"I was told there would be three on each side. No debates. No rebuttal," she said in the e-mail she fired off to members of the Seattle School Board. "At no time was I referred to a teacher nor did a teacher contact me. As I walked into the theater there was a young girl wearing a mask and crawling on the floor. And, over the loud speaker (someone) was denouncing our military, saying 'Americans are killing my family!' "

Not a good thing for "impressionable students who may have family serving Iraq," Gulit told student organizers. "Two of our speakers had returned from Iraq and Afghanistan."

With her speakers in tow, Gulit saw the bloodied figures on the floor. Stage right were students in orange Abu Ghraib-style prison jumpsuits, hoods over heads, pounding on plates with spoons. Next, a student dressed as a grieving Iraqi woman knelt near a bloody body while, over a microphone, a narrator wailed the story of civilians shot, kicked and beaten by American soldiers.

"Did anyone with authority read this script?" wondered Diane Anderson, another adult on the pro-military side who attended the assembly.

Good question and one I tried to ask. Attempts to reach principal Derse were unsuccessful. But Seattle Schools communications manager Patti Spencer filled in what blanks she could.

"It isn't clear at this moment to what extent any adults on staff knew what the pre-assembly theatrical element was going to be," she told me. "The initial understanding, the point of the assembly, was for it to be completely thorough and balanced -- three speakers to support the troops, three who were anti-war. And the drama or enactment was supposed to be the same."

Obviously that part went awry. Apparently the plan was for students to file into the auditorium as the play was going on. But, when she got wind of the content of the skit, Derse issued an announcement that all students be detained in their rooms until after the stage could be cleared. "The only folks who saw it were the students putting it on and, unfortunately, the guest speakers," Spencer said.

There's disagreement, too, about the tone of the rest of the assembly. Gulit credits Derse for putting a swift stop to the skit but claims the panel discussion was loaded on the anti-war side.

But a letter to the school from at least one of the military participants said the panel was fair and balanced. It was a lively discussion peppered with heatedly conflicting views. But mutual respect reigned.

And that is as it should be. High school students have every right to question the war in Iraq and how its civilians are being treated. After all, it's a war that some of them may very well soon be fighting.

Still, no one wants a rancid replay of the days when young Vietnam War vets returned to pigs' blood and cries of "Baby killer!"

There is nothing quite so powerful as the first stirrings of political protest. But, since the assembly, students are learning the importance of condemning policy, not the young people near their own age who are sent into danger to serve.

Despite all the fallout, it's a lesson bloody well worth learning.
 
I thought the first post caused my blood pressure to rise, reading this put it through the roof!

http://www.soundpolitics.com/archives/004019.html

Vet strikes back
As a follow-up to Matt Rosenberg's piece on the Vilification of the US Military at West Seattle High, what follows is a letter by Maj. Terry Thomas, USMC, written to the Seattle school board. It provides a first-hand account of what he witnessed. He hasn't gotten a reply yet.

This isn't the first time they've allowed anti-military activists into the school.

This is a letter written by Major Thomas to the school board.
March 14, 2005
Seattle Public Schools
Attn: School Board & Superintendent
P.O. Box 34165
Seattle, WA 98124-1165

Dear Seattle School Board and Superintendent:

It is with extreme and heartfelt regret, anger and utter dismay that I find myself having to write this letter to your attention given my family’s deep personal ties to West Seattle High School.

This past Friday afternoon, March 11, 2005 I served as one of a panel of guest speakers at the West Seattle High School Theater after having been invited to West Seattle High School by a student, Mr. Ben Doty, via referral from Ms. Nadine Gulit of Operation Support Our Troops. I served as one of a panel of approximately seven guest speakers at the West Seattle High School Theater. The topic on which I was invited to speak was my experience as a combat veteran of the war in Iraq. I was informed that I would have an opportunity to speak to students, along with other veterans as part of an objective forum with both anti-war and pro-troops sentiments. It was my understanding the purpose of this event was to provide students of West Seattle High School with an opportunity to hear from people with varied opinions on the war. I am pleased that my remarks were welcomed by the student audience. The panel of guests, though varied in opinion, was most professional in all aspects of a disagreeable but respectful discourse.

Why, then, am I writing to you? Upon entering the theater at 12:30 PM, approximately 15 minutes prior to the event, I was taken aback by what I witnessed. As I stood there in my Marine Corps Dress Blue uniform, there before me stood numerous kids running around in sloppily dressed and ill-fitted helmets and military fatigues with utter disrespect for the symbols and uniforms of the U.S. military. The walls were covered in camouflaged netting and the stage was covered with approximately twenty white, life-sized cut-out patterns in the shape of dead women and children, all of which were splattered in red-paint to depict human blood. Onstage, children were kneeling and weeping while dressed in ill-fitted Arabic headdress with white-faced masks similarly covered in red paint to depict human blood. At a podium, children were reading a monologue of how U.S. troops were killing civilians and shooting at women and children. Moreover, several grown adults were standing on stage in bright orange jump-suits, with black bags on and off their heads, some bound and tied, and some banging symbols and gongs in a crude depiction of what I believe were their efforts to depict victims of the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse episode.

Within the auditorium, numerous adults appeared to have been supervising this behavior and children were literally running amok. What is going on in your classrooms and auditoriums? Who supervised this program? Who are these grown adults dressed as prisoners and performing such the attics on the stage of our public schools? Since when has it become Seattle School Board policy to take an official anti-troops position and declare returning combat veterans from Iraq such as myself as killers of innocent women and children as if this war were some sick sport. As an Iraq war veteran I am outraged by what I witnessed going on at West Seattle High School!

My fellow veterans and I were immediately made to feel unwelcome by these organizers as if each of us were the devil himself; indiscriminate killers and enemies of our own community. To someone's credit, all of this nonsense was ceased less than one minute prior to the curtain going up. I can only assume someone realized how sickly embarrassing this would be for the school district. However, this last minute cover-up does not excuse what was going on and it appears to have been going on for quite sometime given the obviously lengthy art and script preparation developed for this event. I and the other veterans from Afghanistan, the Balkans and Ms. Gulit from Operation Support Our Troops were all witness to this ugly spectacle along with over 40 or so people that appeared to be willingly participating in this depravity.

I have served my country honorably for nearly 13 years all around this globe. I have fought on the battlefield in Iraq, lost good friends dead and wounded in this conflict and I will not sit back and allow our Seattle school district to shame or sully the name, reputation and good name of our military and our returning veterans. I will not tolerate an ill-administered school bureaucracy that seeks to sanction, condone, advocate or chaperon a vile position that Americas military men and women are somehow blood thirsty, indiscriminate murderers, executioners or war criminals.

I am requesting a meeting with your board as soon as possible to explain and address this issue and a letter should be written to the parents of West Seattle High School students making them aware of Fridays events explaining how and why it occurred. A full accounting of those teachers, counselors, parents, groups and adults that were allowed preferential access on to the campus to advocate for this particular position, use school facilities and develop these abhorrent materials is expected immediately. Lastly a public letter of apology is due the Seattle community with apologetic cordiality extended to the returning Iraq war veterans of this community for the shameful antics going on in our public schools with an assurance that this sort of sick nonsense will not be condoned or tolerated in Seattle public schools now or ever.

Sincerely,
Terry Thomas
Major, USMCR
Combat Veteran– Operation Iraqi Freedom
P.O. Box 31406
Seattle, WA 98103

Superintendent (206)252-0100 Raj Manhas 32-150
[email protected]
Communications Director (206)252-0200 PeterDaniels 32-170 [email protected]
School Board MemberDistrict 1 (206)252-0052 SallySoriano 11-010 [email protected]
School Board MemberDistrict 2 (206)252-0031 DarleneFlynn 11-010 [email protected]
School Board MemberDistrict 3 (206)729-3202 BritaButler-Wall 11-010 [email protected]
School Board MemberDistrict 4 (206)297-4533 Dick Lilly 11-010 [email protected]
School Board MemberDistrict 5 (206)720-3303 Mary Bass 11-010 [email protected]
School Board MemberDistrict 6 (206)933-5338 IreneStewart 11-010 [email protected]
School Board MemberDistrict 7 (206)760-4747 JanKumasaka 11-010 [email protected]
West Seattle High School Principal (206) 252-8800 Susan Derse 31-671 [email protected]
 
dilloduck said:
Is Washinton still part of America?------thought they had left by now.

Man o man, if that was my school district, I'd be raising hell!
 
dilloduck said:
Is Washinton still part of America?------thought they had left by now.

It's things like this that make me want to author an initiative to kick Seattle out of Washington State. Without the dead weight of Seattle, we would be as solidly Republican as any other Western state.
 
gop_jeff said:
It's things like this that make me want to author an initiative to kick Seattle out of Washington State. Without the dead weight of Seattle, we would be as solidly Republican as any other Western state.

I hear you. I would have such a royal fit, how DARE they! :firing:
 
gop_jeff said:
It's things like this that make me want to author an initiative to kick Seattle out of Washington State. Without the dead weight of Seattle, we would be as solidly Republican as any other Western state.
Gotta admit----Austin is the liberal armpit of Texas too! Checkout the red-blue county maps of Travis County----I'm so ashamed!
 
I actually called the principal of the school who was "in a meeting" but did get to speak with her assistant and expressed my outrage as a member of this community at the disrespect toward the military and the biased war theatrics.

The assistant stated that the principal actually stopped this "skit in the making" and had them take down all the props before the forum actually took place . She told me the skit was prepared by the help of student aides and that no teachers were really responsible. Which of course I did not buy as there should always be a teacher who is ultimately responsible for any activity within a school. Realizing I couldn't be bluffed, she then gave me the names of the two teachers who were responsible.

From the demeanor of the two people I spoke with, it is evident that the school is definitely watching its Ps & Qs at this time. Hope they get the message!
 
ScreamingEagle said:
I actually called the principal of the school who was "in a meeting" but did get to speak with her assistant and expressed my outrage as a member of this community at the disrespect toward the military and the biased war theatrics.

The assistant stated that the principal actually stopped this "skit in the making" and had them take down all the props before the forum actually took place . She told me the skit was prepared by the help of student aides and that no teachers were really responsible. Which of course I did not buy as there should always be a teacher who is ultimately responsible for any activity within a school. Realizing I couldn't be bluffed, she then gave me the names of the two teachers who were responsible.

From the demeanor of the two people I spoke with, it is evident that the school is definitely watching its Ps & Qs at this time. Hope they get the message!

As the Major's letter made clear, this came about just prior to the beginning of the scedualed event. This most definately took facualty involvement, anyone that has any experience or memories from high school, know that it wasn't possible for the students to have come up with this on their own, not in the auditorium. They had built freaking stage settings.
 
Kathianne said:
As the Major's letter made clear, this came about just prior to the beginning of the scedualed event. This most definately took facualty involvement, anyone that has any experience or memories from high school, know that it wasn't possible for the students to have come up with this on their own, not in the auditorium. They had built freaking stage settings.

Right, not exactly an off-the-cuff, last minute plan. Seems they're running scared because the frowning eye of the media is upon them. Good. Hope everybody calls and emails the numbers you provided Kathianne. One school at a time. :flameth:
 
I must admit I'm surprised at the forum, but the guy deserves the airtime.

http://www.blackfive.net/main/2005/06/marine_recruite.html

Marine Recruiter And the MSM Part Two

On June 9th, I posted a skeptical review of Susan Paynter's article about a Washington state young man by the name of Axel and his mother, Marcia, and their alleged horrendous ordeal at the hands of the Marine Corps Recruiters. Paynter is a columnist for the Seattle Post-Intelligencer and frequently paints the military as either evil and relentless (original Paynter article) or as victims (Soldier in Baghdad responds to Paynter).

The Marine Corps Sergeant has been identified (by coming forward) and will perform an interview with National Public Radio (not exactly a friend of the military) tomorrow. Barb at Righty in a Lefty State provides the link to the NPR interview information which will air between 12-2pm Pacific.

Marine Staff Sergeant Ron Marquez was accused of many things - kidnapping Axel, intimidating Axel, using the memory of Axel's dad to influence Axel...Hopefully, he'll get a fair shake on NPR tomorrow.

For now, I want to point out one part of the Paynter article:

...The next step of Axel's misadventure came when he heard about a cool "chin-ups" contest in Bellingham, where the prize was a free Xbox. The now 18-year-old Skagit Valley Community College student dragged his tail feathers home uncharacteristically late that night. And, in the morning, Marcia learned the Marines had hosted the event and "then had him out all night, drilling him to join."...
They "had him out all night, drilling him to join". Sounds pretty rough, doesn't it?

Below is a picture of Axel (left), a Marine Recruiter, and Mrs. Marquez (right) from the night where SSgt. Marquez was "drilling him to join". Click on the thumbnail for the full picture.
Dscn0132

Now, does that look like they were really drilling him? Does Axel look like he was having a lousy time?

Susan Paynter is a muck-raking, shrill, mean, and talentless hack who's knack for smoke, mirrors, and untruth is matched only by Howard Dean and Dick Durbin and Al Sharpton.

Thank you to SSgt (and Mrs.) Marquez for your service! I think it's obvious to the thousands of people that will read this that you have a tough job and that you do it well.


[I owe a big THANK YOU to Dan S. and Barb for pursuing this and ensuring that we can get to the truth behind this.]
 
Kathianne said:
I must admit I'm surprised at the forum, but the guy deserves the airtime.

http://www.blackfive.net/main/2005/06/marine_recruite.html
It seems the radio program was cancelled, which I found while reading the comments:
Stephen Spruiell blog-ing at NRO (Media Blog) contacted aynter and the Marine recruiter for a balanced story.

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/spruiell200506141217.asp

His follow up posting is here:

http://media.nationalreview.com/066368.asp
Read for yourself his thoughts and insights.

Posted by: Iaanmte | June 18, 2005 03:48 PM

I would just like to personally thank Matt, Barb, and Dan for being so dedicated to uncovering the truth. As I told Dan earlier, it is citzens, like you, that make people, like my husband, more than eager to defend this beautiful country we live in. Thank you all, from the bottom of my heart. On a different note, there is still no news regarding the taped interview with my husband. I am very disappointed that it did not air as planned. As for the anti-recruiting piece that aired in it's place, well, that's an issue for another day. I will gladly share any information as soon as it has become available to me.

Mrs. Marquez
wife of
SSgt. Ron Marquez

P.S. A BIG THANKS to everyone else that has come to this site in search of the truth. Your support is greatly appreciated.
 
Follow up story from another paper:

http://www.skagitvalleyherald.com/articles/2005/06/19/news/news01.txt

Stating their case
By BEVERLY CRICHFIELD

FRANK VARGA / Skagit Valley Herald
Axel Cobb, 18, of Sedro-Woolley, and his mother, Marcia, say Axel was relentlessly harassed by Marines and dragged down to Seattle for testing before he was scheduled to be sworn in.
A Sedro-Woolley mother says the Marines went beyond the call of duty in trying to enlist her son. The Marines say he wanted to join. In a story that drew national attention, both sides say they've been misunderstood.

A tug-of-war between a determined Sedro-Woolley mother and a persistent Marine recruiter over an 18-year-old prospect made national headlines, but left both sides feeling a bit dazed.

Three weeks ago, Marcia Cobb snatched her son, Axel, right out of a Marine testing center in Seattle and accused the Marines of using underhanded tactics to persuade him to join up.

But the Marines say their recruitment efforts were unfairly portrayed in the Seattle Post-Intelligencer and, later, in the national media.

Both Marcia Cobb and the Burlington-based Marine recruiters were taken aback by the fallout from the story.

Marcia Cobb read letters in the Seattle newspapers and heard comments from locals accusing her of being unpatriotic.

"We wanted to put it (the story) out there so people can talk to their kids about it - get some pointers about how to talk to these people," she said.

Marine recruiter Staff Sgt. Ron Marquez said he was getting calls accusing him of being a "disgrace" to the Marines, an organization he says he defends and to which he has devoted his life.

"It hurts me," he said. "This is a big part of my life."

Making contact
The Marines began contacting the young Cobb in the summer of 2003, just before he started his senior year at Sedro-Woolley High School, Marquez said.

Recruiters have several ways of finding possible candidates, including gathering lists of seniors from high schools and approaching young men and women on the street, Marquez said.

In two years, the Marines made 13 phone calls to Cobb's home, Marquez said.
FRANK VARGA / Skagit Valley Herald
Francisco Delgado, 18, of Sedro-Woolley (from left), Marine recruiter and Staff Sgt. Ron Marquez, 24, and Mike Edwards, 18, also of Sedro-Woolley, discuss the advantages of joining the military.
At first, the Cobbs said they avoided answering the military's calls by screening them with caller ID, said Marcia Cobb.

But on May 25 of this year, Axel Cobb answered the phone.

Marquez and Cobb agree they talked about meeting to discuss a future with the Marines.

"He said he never thought about the military until we talked," Marquez said.

Cobb, with his thick, blonde dreadlocks, black canvas boat shoes and no socks, and laid-back personality, met with Marquez, a short-haired, tall, no-nonsense Marine at the Burlington recruiting office the next day.

When asked whether he felt it was possible to recruit someone who, outwardly, wears dreadlocks and dresses like what many consider a "hippie," Marquez smiled slightly, looked down and said firmly, "I don't judge. Anyone who comes into this office is treated the same."

Marquez, who has been a Marine for six years and a recruiter for just three months, questioned Cobb about what he wanted from life and outlined the benefits that Cobb could receive from the military - self-discipline, money for college and specialized training.

Cobb said he wasn't convinced.

"I said, ‘It sounds great. But it's not a decision I can make today,' " Cobb said with a smile.

Marquez said that's not quite the conversation he remembers. In fact, Marquez said Cobb was interested in pursuing chemistry-related training and said the Marines might be the perfect place to get that education.

Cobb told Marquez he was concerned about his mother having to refinance her house or take out a loan to pay for his college education.

According to Marquez, Cobb left the meeting saying he wanted to join the Marines, but wanted to consult his family before making a final decision.

"Had Axel not wanted to join, he never would have come into my office," Marquez said quietly, sitting back in the Burlington military recruitment office along Burlington Boulevard near the Target store. "He said he wanted to be a Marine."

Marcia Cobb said she knew that her son was interested in the Marines. But she said she also knew he wanted to talk with friends and family, and get more information about the military before making a commitment.

She said she believes the recruiters weren't giving her son enough time and wanted him to join immediately.

Persuading the family
Marquez met with Cobb at the recruiting office again on Friday, May 27. Marquez told Cobb about a "chin-ups" contest he was hosting in Bellingham that night. The winner of the contest would receive an Xbox video game player, he said.

Cobb went to the competition, and even stayed to bowl with Marquez and a few of the other competitors.

The next day, Marquez called Cobb's mother, Marcia, to talk to her about her son's desire to join the military.

"I deal with this quite a bit," Marquez said of anxious, anti-military parents - although Marcia Cobb is quick to say she has nothing against the military.

Marquez said he tries to make sure the parents of potential recruits are supportive of their children's decision. The military is required to gain parental approval for recruits under the age of 18, he said. Axel turned 18 last year.

Otherwise, it's up to the recruit as an adult defined by U.S. law to make that ultimate decision, Marquez said.

Marcia Cobb said she didn't want her son to join. Axel's late father, a Marine veteran himself, would never have wanted his son to be a Marine, Marcia Cobb said. On Saturday, May 28, she told the 24-year-old recruiter not to call back.

Marquez didn't give up. He drove out to Cobbs' Sedro-Woolley home to talk with the family. He showed up about 20 minutes after Marcia Cobb had left for Seattle.

Marquez said he talked with Axel again about joining. According to Marquez, Axel said he was ready for the tests.

They agreed to meet at Cobb's workplace in La Conner on Monday, May 30 - Memorial Day - and head off to the training center. Cobb said he "didn't think it would be a big deal" to go to Seattle and took Tuesday off from work.

Marquez and Cobb did go to the Burlington office on Monday, where Cobb filled out paperwork and was screened by Marquez and his commanding officer to make sure he was qualified.

Cobb left a message with his mother telling her he was headed to Seattle for the next few days. Then the recruiters took away Axel's cellular phone. Marquez said cell phones aren't allowed during testing - they're a security risk.

Cobb ended up at the testing center on East Marginal Way in Seattle on Monday evening, spent the night in a hotel and then returned to the testing center Tuesday morning for a whole day's worth of physical and mental evaluations.

He also signed some documents - none of which bound him to the military. Cobb said he was able to read some of them. But he was too tired by the end of the second day to know exactly what he was signing, he said.

Bringing Axel home
Meantime, Marcia Cobb had received the phone message from her son.

"I was in a total panic," Cobb said. She drove home from Seattle where she had attended an event and began calling her oldest daughter, Heather Thompson, and other family members.

She stopped by the Burlington recruiting office, only to find the door was open, but nobody was there. She grabbed business cards and made calls to recruiters.

She finally reached Marquez and demanded that she talk with her son. Axel sounded nervous, she said, but told her he would see her in the morning.

Marcia Cobb waited until the next morning and rushed to Seattle with her oldest daughter.

Mother and daughter asked to speak the Axel, and were told he was still being tested. While the two waited, Thompson decided to make up a story that would allow her to talk with Axel.

Out of the corner of her eye, she said she saw Axel walking down a hallway away from her. She ran after him, grabbed his arm, told him that his grandfather was dying and along with several other family members, dragged him out of the testing center.

"The biggest thing I remember that day was the look of fear and confusion - like he'd gone through the wringer," Thompson said.

The next day, the family hired a lawyer to make sure that Axel had not officially signed up to be a Marine.

Marquez said he never threatened Cobb.

"I truly believe the Marine Corps is a viable option for everyone," Marquez said. "It really makes professional, mature individuals."

Marquez said the Marines' goal is for each recruiter to bring in three new recruits each month. Marquez said he missed his quota last month. He said if he misses another month's quota, the Marines will send him to a training session to show him how to strengthen his skills.

Jon Chau, public affairs representative for the Seattle Marine recruiting district office, said recruiters don't go after people who aren't ready to join the military.

"It does us no good, economically, financially, realistically to find someone who doesn't want to be a Marine," Chau said.

He added that his commanding officer has not received any formal complaints about misconduct related to the incident with Cobb.

"If any concern was made, we would answer that claim," Chau said. "My commanding officer would immediately launch an investigation."

Despite several months of lagging recruitment numbers, the marine recruiting office, which covers Washington and northern Idaho, exceeded its goal for May by 10 recruits, Chau said. The objective is not to recruit a specific number, but to make sure the ranks are filled, he said. Nationwide, the Marines met their recruitment goal by 103 percent for May, he said.

"We've historically done well in this area," Chau said.

After his experience at the Seattle testing center, Axel Cobb said he's relieved he didn't follow through and doesn't plan to join the military.

Marcia Cobb said she doesn't have a bone to pick with the Marines. But she said she's disappointed that they disregarded her wishes to stay away from her son.

"They're being so pressured, and I think that's wrong," Cobb said.
 

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