Debate Now #BLM... Why not #ALM?!

[hollyjeanp7]

In those neighborhoods, the police are more of a threat to the law-abiding than the gangs. Gangs are shooting other gangs. Police are stopping everyone, finding petty things to charge them with, and hitting them up with escalating fines they can't ever pay off.

If you had to live under police shakedown gangs for your whole life, you'd be pissed too. The shootings are just the tip of the iceberg.

It's safe to assume the law abiding citizens within these communities are aware of who the real bad guy on the block is. By protecting or defending the very problem that brings such violence and police drama to your area, is basically choosing a side. Bad guy or good guy. You have a guy that will help you, but he needs your help. You also have a guy that forces you to cooperate and comply with securing his existence and ability to thrive within the community but he demands your help by threatening you. He uses proven, government implemented (to every citizen in every society with the help of our good ole media...*thats a whole different thread topic*) tactics with the best results known to man. ****FEAR****
In Milwaukee, my hometown, children were getting shot in crossfire weekly over the summer, and not one person was willing to speak out against someone who cares more about collecting his money for dime bags than the life of your child!!! I'm sure the thought of retaliation is one of terror, fear, paranoia, etc. But eventually these people will become extinct. When this begins that means:
Crime- significantly down.
Home values- come up.
To buy a home now, at their valued price in a rough neighborhood- 20-30 G's.... now I don't know about other places, but Milwaukee's "hood" is in an area that could hands down become prime real estate... if only it were safe....

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[hollyjeanp7]

I agree! I really do. And disagree with anyone that condones lying or protects wrongdoing. Can I understand why that job would make anyone bitter and suspecting?? Yes. If you worked a job where you dealt daily with nothing but people who disrespect you, threaten you, lie to you, and harm or abuse others- you gotta become a dick. Kindness is viewed as weakness. In any real position in life we learn just that. If you show nothing but kindness and the desire to give to others, someone will take it and walk all over you until you toughen up. You then learn from that mistake and are on the defense. Does this completely justify poor treatment from law enforcement? Nope. However, are we helping to reduce this wall of toughness they've deemed necessary in order to be effective protectors? No.
It's just an all around bad predicament we've found ourselves in. Good thing is- we CAN change... Just gotta do it right, go forwards, and not look back.

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[C_Clayton_Jones]

"#BLM... Why not #ALM?!"

Because there is a perception among many white conservatives that when an African-American dies during an encounter with police, that the killing was de facto ‘justified’ – that the individual killed must have been ‘guilty’ of something; and if not guilty at the time of the killing he was likely ‘guilty’ of some previous crime; in any event, a likely ‘thug’ was taken off the streets.

This is not to say all conservatives believe this, or that this sort of perception is representative of all conservatives, but a significant number do in fact have this perception.

Indeed, recall the efforts to demonize and vilify Trayvon Martin; on this and other forums we’ve seen conservatives attempt to demonize and vilify Philoando Castile and Alton Sterling in an effort to ‘mitigate’ their respective killings.

So black lives matter when African-Americans are killed by police, the same as anyone else – where those killed are entitled to the same presumption of innocence, that they may have had a criminal record or previous encounters with police in no way undermines their value as human beings, and their deaths need to be taken as seriously as the deaths of others – not disregarded as something that ‘just happens’ in urban communities.

That’s why ‘all lives matter’ is ignorant, meaningless nonsense – a ridiculous phrase which further seeks to diminish the tragedy of African-Americans killed during encounters with police.

 

[emilynghiem]

Why in the world would you choose this as a slogan while trying to raise awareness and bring everyone together for a cause?? I've heard the arguments, I've seen the footage. If this cause is about police brutality then one incident and it's victim (who didn't resist arrest I'd like to add) should be the poster child for this cause... he was white... Maybe Hispanic. Where's the common sense??



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Because people start with what they relate to,
and the biggest gap with trust of laws and police,
due to lack of education on laws and govt,
is with Blacks who have been taught that laws
were created by white men to enslave people as property.

That's why there's the biggest cultural and historical gap with blacks, who used to be sold as property under these same laws. The damage done by slavery has never been corrected because it exceeded what our laws can address. Thus the injury and injustice has been carried for generations and is still being expressed as grief, anger and victimization until it is fully addressed, resolved and healed. (The Native Americans are also going through recovery and also have their own longstanding trust issues with govt due to genocide carried in the spirit for generations until it is healed as well.)

My question is, why not reinvent BLM
as "Business Leaders and Mentors"

All the successful models I've seen for leaders, communities and groups that have uplifted poor Black communities out of poverty,
have been based on mentoring for success in schools, business
and learning to work with laws and govt instead of fighting these.

Obama started two initiatives: the Brothers Keeper program for mentorship, and the Executive Order for Excellence in African American Education. Why can't these be used to educate all communities, especially distressed poor districts and history Black neighborhoods, in business, law, property and financial management, owning and managing schools, music and media production businesses, etc. instead of sending people to prison.

 

[hollyjeanp7]

To be brutally honest, suggesting any other way to "stick it to the man" other than what you have just described is nothing but a set back! I find myself forced into one of two categories, both in which are unreasonable but also unnecessary. I DIDN'T OWN A SLAVE THAT YOU REFER TO.. MY PARENTS AND THEIR ANCESTORS WERE NOT SLAVE OWNERS. YOU WERE NOT THAT TYPE OF SLAVE, NOR WERE YOUR PARENTS. However, we are currently ALL enslaved!! We are slaves to media. We are forced into submission by FEAR. This crap happening within, or being allowed to happen within the general population is only creating more fear, mistrust, and division. FOR GOD'S SAKES PEOPLE!! WE ARE THE HUMAN RACE! WE are responsible, and should be focused on all life... Which would mean we figured out how to act within our own species... To simplify how to act, you simply throw an E at the end of our species designated name. Act HUMANE people! Kill with kindness. To be a victim, you must show true innocence, and acting violently towards another being while performing their job is far from innocence. If you won't act out in the same manner to the drug lord on your block because he will ILLEGALLY kill you, why would you lash out and fight the guy on your block that can legally kill you?? The difference between the two is also pretty damn simple. The one guy YOU are helping and protecting, the other guy can help and protect YOU!! As long as you cry victim, you remain a victim.... We are all slaves to our jobs. We all are just trying to live and lead happy lives. When you threaten anyone in their own house, and feel you and your livelihood is endangered, you have the right to eliminate that threat. And if you didn't get the memo, the streets and crime scenes are considered police officers place of work/residence. Treat people the way you want to be treated. Period.

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[emilynghiem]

To be brutally honest, suggesting any other way to "stick it to the man" other than what you have just described is nothing but a set back! I find myself forced into one of two categories, both in which are unreasonable but also unnecessary. I DIDN'T OWN A SLAVE THAT YOU REFER TO.. MY PARENTS AND THEIR ANCESTORS WERE NOT SLAVE OWNERS. YOU WERE NOT THAT TYPE OF SLAVE, NOR WERE YOUR PARENTS. However, we are currently ALL enslaved!! We are slaves to media. We are forced into submission by FEAR. This crap happening within, or being allowed to happen within the general population is only creating more fear, mistrust, and division. FOR GOD'S SAKES PEOPLE!! WE ARE THE HUMAN RACE! WE are responsible, and should be focused on all life... Which would mean we figured out how to act within our own species... To simplify how to act, you simply throw an E at the end of our species designated name. Act HUMANE people! Kill with kindness. To be a victim, you must show true innocence, and acting violently towards another being while performing their job is far from innocence. If you won't act out in the same manner to the drug lord on your block because he will ILLEGALLY kill you, why would you lash out and fight the guy on your block that can legally kill you?? The difference between the two is also pretty damn simple. The one guy YOU are helping and protecting, the other guy can help and protect YOU!! As long as you cry victim, you remain a victim.... We are all slaves to our jobs. We all are just trying to live and lead happy lives. When you threaten anyone in their own house, and feel you and your livelihood is endangered, you have the right to eliminate that threat. And if you didn't get the memo, the streets and crime scenes are considered police officers place of work/residence. Treat people the way you want to be treated. Period.

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RE: BLM and ALM
There were both at the vigils in Houston after the Dallas shootings.
A lot of the attendees were church members, including older black women
wearing "No More Bloodshed" shirts and others holding "All Lives Matter" signs that got on the news. These peace meetings were clearly embracing all sides, both BLM and police and everyone else, without excluding anyone.

People who want to focus on Black Lives Matter were also included
and many voices their issues, while police were equally included and presenting at these events.

It was all inclusive, whether people wanted to work on BLM only or ALM.

RE: Expanding on BLM
I am going to start an outreach through public radio and TV for
BUSINESS LEADERS AND MENTORS
* celebrating and thanking business leaders, teachers and mentors who people want to thank, regardless
of religion or politics, this will be all inclusive
* matching mentors with interns and people who want mentors by posting announcements and descriptions
* organizing online fundraising to pay for the mentorships/internships
to PROMOTE the idea that for every person who goes to prison for a year for a crime,
that's 50K a year that COULD have paid for an executive salary for a Business leader
or could have paid for two positions for a middle management and internship position for a year.

Which do you want to fund?

Prisoner incarceration where someone will likely become dependent on welfare from inability to work.
or Business leaders and mentors to have paid jobs building or providing services to the community.

That's what I want to see come out of the BLM Movement.
Something even bigger and better, that is all inclusive and helps all people and communities

 

[hollyjeanp7]

Well, if you got yourself incarcerated, that is simply the price we must pay. These people are found guilty by a jury of their peers. Their defense attorney isn't picking jury members that would be biased so he could lose the case. If they choose to forego their right to a trial, that's something they have chosen to do, likely based on the strength of their case... African Americans and people of minority ARE afforded benefits and opportunities that non minority citizens are exempt from. In order to run a business you need to BE an entrepreneur. Not everyone possess the drive and will it takes to be successful. Exposure to such ideas may ignite such characteristics in oneself, which means it should be mentioned within the schools. In order to have such classes and teachers versed in these areas you need funding. In order to fund a project wisely, you must prove results to make it a worth while project on the budget. When parents don't demand respect and importance in school within the home-the child deems it unimportant... Creating a vicious, never-ending counterproductive cycle that sadly leads to budget cuts. And yes, it is hurting the families who DO take advantage of such opportunities. And that is sad. Like everything else in the world if the risk is greater than the reward, you shift to a new "risk"... So to speak. As callous as it sounds, that is the world we live in. It's all about the dollars.
The way I see it, the very Basics need to begin inside the home. You need to establish respect for yourself and others. You need to distinguish who the bad guys are versus the good. The moment you start getting rid of the bad guys is the moment you can live a little Freer. You can be a little bit more at ease... You can take pride in your home because you don't have to worry about somebody vandalizing it. Before you know it property values go up . And police presence goes down . You can actually concentrate on moving forward in being successful because you aren't distracted by fear.

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[hollyjeanp7]

"#BLM... Why not #ALM?!"

Because there is a perception among many white conservatives that when an African-American dies during an encounter with police, that the killing was de facto ‘justified’ – that the individual killed must have been ‘guilty’ of something; and if not guilty at the time of the killing he was likely ‘guilty’ of some previous crime; in any event, a likely ‘thug’ was taken off the streets.

This is not to say all conservatives believe this, or that this sort of perception is representative of all conservatives, but a significant number do in fact have this perception.

Indeed, recall the efforts to demonize and vilify Trayvon Martin; on this and other forums we’ve seen conservatives attempt to demonize and vilify Philoando Castile and Alton Sterling in an effort to ‘mitigate’ their respective killings.

So black lives matter when African-Americans are killed by police, the same as anyone else – where those killed are entitled to the same presumption of innocence, that they may have had a criminal record or previous encounters with police in no way undermines their value as human beings, and their deaths need to be taken as seriously as the deaths of others – not disregarded as something that ‘just happens’ in urban communities.

That’s why ‘all lives matter’ is ignorant, meaningless nonsense – a ridiculous phrase which further seeks to diminish the tragedy of African-Americans killed during encounters with police.

Well answer me this then... What efforts or movements do you currently have in the works to stop the endless, ridiculous, brutal fact of black on black violence? Why have you made people fear for their lives while driving through certain neighborhoods?? What kind of actions would cause people to feel this way??!! How is that acceptable?? It's accepted because anyone that might think to mention it would be "racist" and that touches on a part of a past event WE weren't involved with, yet feel responsible for being our ancestors played a role. And that's where I personally draw a line. I'm not racist against any specific color. I had nothing to do with that history, and I surely will not be taking blame for it or supporting anyone who's using that as an excuse to hurt others. I'm racist against many people, and it has nothing to do with skin pigmentation... If you are a trashy, evil spirited, valueless being-I'm racist against you. And trust me, those people are every color, size and place on earth.
By having someone claim BLM and go on to kill innocent officers at a peaceful demonstration, you have lost ALL credibility and I imagine a ton of supporters. The day you prove your lives actually mean something by addressing the inner community violence AND then have police shoot LAW ABIDING citizens, you will have no problem rallying support of all races. The ONLY thing you are doing with this stance you've taken is further separate you from the rest of us. You are making the past a present day issue. Clearly that past wasn't a good one, which contributes to where you stand today, so why in the world would you re-victimize and risk setting yourselves back? Time to look forward and start looking at a situation's entirety. If you think resisting arrest and endangering the lives of others is OK... You got a long way to go.

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[hollyjeanp7]

To be brutally honest, suggesting any other way to "stick it to the man" other than what you have just described is nothing but a set back! I find myself forced into one of two categories, both in which are unreasonable but also unnecessary. I DIDN'T OWN A SLAVE THAT YOU REFER TO.. MY PARENTS AND THEIR ANCESTORS WERE NOT SLAVE OWNERS. YOU WERE NOT THAT TYPE OF SLAVE, NOR WERE YOUR PARENTS. However, we are currently ALL enslaved!! We are slaves to media. We are forced into submission by FEAR. This crap happening within, or being allowed to happen within the general population is only creating more fear, mistrust, and division. FOR GOD'S SAKES PEOPLE!! WE ARE THE HUMAN RACE! WE are responsible, and should be focused on all life... Which would mean we figured out how to act within our own species... To simplify how to act, you simply throw an E at the end of our species designated name. Act HUMANE people! Kill with kindness. To be a victim, you must show true innocence, and acting violently towards another being while performing their job is far from innocence. If you won't act out in the same manner to the drug lord on your block because he will ILLEGALLY kill you, why would you lash out and fight the guy on your block that can legally kill you?? The difference between the two is also pretty damn simple. The one guy YOU are helping and protecting, the other guy can help and protect YOU!! As long as you cry victim, you remain a victim.... We are all slaves to our jobs. We all are just trying to live and lead happy lives. When you threaten anyone in their own house, and feel you and your livelihood is endangered, you have the right to eliminate that threat. And if you didn't get the memo, the streets and crime scenes are considered police officers place of work/residence. Treat people the way you want to be treated. Period.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

RE: BLM and ALM
There were both at the vigils in Houston after the Dallas shootings.
A lot of the attendees were church members, including older black women
wearing "No More Bloodshed" shirts and others holding "All Lives Matter" signs that got on the news. These peace meetings were clearly embracing all sides, both BLM and police and everyone else, without excluding anyone.

People who want to focus on Black Lives Matter were also included
and many voices their issues, while police were equally included and presenting at these events.

It was all inclusive, whether people wanted to work on BLM only or ALM.

RE: Expanding on BLM
I am going to start an outreach through public radio and TV for
BUSINESS LEADERS AND MENTORS
* celebrating and thanking business leaders, teachers and mentors who people want to thank, regardless
of religion or politics, this will be all inclusive
* matching mentors with interns and people who want mentors by posting announcements and descriptions
* organizing online fundraising to pay for the mentorships/internships
to PROMOTE the idea that for every person who goes to prison for a year for a crime,
that's 50K a year that COULD have paid for an executive salary for a Business leader
or could have paid for two positions for a middle management and internship position for a year.

Which do you want to fund?

Prisoner incarceration where someone will likely become dependent on welfare from inability to work.
or Business leaders and mentors to have paid jobs building or providing services to the community.

That's what I want to see come out of the BLM Movement.
Something even bigger and better, that is all inclusive and helps all people and communities

What did these free speeches at the funerals do, other than allow all view points vent?? Was there some positive outcome or agreement??
The only way for a "peace treaty" or agreement to come into play, both sides (BLM & PD's) need to say what they need to avoid these scenarios. BLM want to not be shot, killed, or beaten when dealing with the police. And that is a very reasonable request. The police want to do their job and not feel threatened. They need respect. So to avoid a conflicts escalation to what has got to be considered a last resort, they need you to comply. And this I challenge both parties to do!

***P.D.***
-FORCE and weapons are not to be used as long as the subject you rightfully and legally apprehend submits and does as told when arrested. All police official's will be assigned and required to wear voice and video devices while on the job. Failure of a functioning device should deadly force be used, and no other video exists, that is ruled homicide and blame defaults to you, the officer

***BLM***
-Resistance and physical force towards police officials will not be used while being placed under arrest. Directions given by these officials are followed. Your right to free speech obviously exists... However, your right to body movements is instructed by police officials at this time. Failure to comply is punishable by said penalties.

The first party that fails to do so, makes these agreements null-and-void. And THAT is the party responsible and guilty of breaking the peace agreement. THAT one person should be completely persecuted by all, and go down in history as THE cause of division, and should signify the prime example of failed humanity. Their jobs should discharge them, and exempt them from future opportunities to serve the people if in fact it's an officer breaking this treaty. The white man/ cops can remain the leading cause as to why the minorities continue to be suppressed. Every police station will then allocate X number of funds for the offense they've committed on humanity in today's day and age.
Should it be the person within the race that urgently wants and needs this peace who breaks the agreement, that person and their family influences who have personally failed them by not teaching respect, self control, how to follow instruction, accept consequences to poor behavior, or enough about the suppression the black man has faced for years, they should be excommunicated from the community and go down in history as THE cause of current day violence, disrespect, and cause of further division. They can also expect the choice they've made in resisting to be considered an action that is endangering the life/lives of the other party and deadly force is deemed completely necessary and warranted. The excuse of anyone but yourselves holding you back is no longer valid.

Are BLM willing to place all trust in their beliefs of innocence and appropriate behavior?

Are police willing to do the same?

This is what BLM is fighting for... No more deadly force on law abiding blacks.

The police are not mind reader's, and should not consider defiance and fight as anything other than a threat. They are paid protectors of us all. As a result of their willingness to put themselves in harm's way for the people of all colors, they are granted the ability to use their best judgement on whether or not forceful action is used. *Refer to definition of forceful action above.

That's what BLM wants. That's what police officials need and deserve. If you can't get behind that agreement, you really need to analyze the reasons why.... You will find nothing but the lack of trust you have in one party over the other is the true problem with society today.

Would you sign this treaty? If not, what requests would you like to see added?

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[hollyjeanp7]

"#BLM... Why not #ALM?!"

Because there is a perception among many white conservatives that when an African-American dies during an encounter with police, that the killing was de facto ‘justified’ – that the individual killed must have been ‘guilty’ of something; and if not guilty at the time of the killing he was likely ‘guilty’ of some previous crime; in any event, a likely ‘thug’ was taken off the streets.

This is not to say all conservatives believe this, or that this sort of perception is representative of all conservatives, but a significant number do in fact have this perception.

Indeed, recall the efforts to demonize and vilify Trayvon Martin; on this and other forums we’ve seen conservatives attempt to demonize and vilify Philoando Castile and Alton Sterling in an effort to ‘mitigate’ their respective killings.

So black lives matter when African-Americans are killed by police, the same as anyone else – where those killed are entitled to the same presumption of innocence, that they may have had a criminal record or previous encounters with police in no way undermines their value as human beings, and their deaths need to be taken as seriously as the deaths of others – not disregarded as something that ‘just happens’ in urban communities.

That’s why ‘all lives matter’ is ignorant, meaningless nonsense – a ridiculous phrase which further seeks to diminish the tragedy of African-Americans killed during encounters with police.

The only way for a "peace treaty" or agreement to come into play, both sides (BLM & PD's) need to say what they need in order to avoid these scenarios.
BLM wants to not be shot, killed, or beaten when dealing with the police. And that is a very reasonable request. The police want to do their job and not feel threatened. They need respect. So to avoid a conflicts escalation to what has got to be considered a last resort, they need you to comply. And this I challenge both parties to do!

***P.D.***
-FORCE and weapons are not to be used as long as the subject you rightfully and legally apprehend submits and does as told when arrested. All police official's will be assigned and required to wear voice and video devices while on the job. Failure of a functioning device should deadly force be used, and no other video exists, that is ruled homicide and blame defaults to you, the officer

***BLM***-Resistance and physical force towards police officials will not be used while being placed under arrest. Directions given by these officials are followed. Your right to free speech obviously exists... However, your right to body movements is instructed by police officials at this time. Failure to comply is punishable by said penalties.

The first party that fails to do so, makes these agreements null-and-void. And THAT is the party responsible and guilty of breaking the peace agreement. THAT one person should be completely persecuted by all, and go down in history as THE cause of division, and should signify the prime example of failed humanity. Their jobs should discharge them, and exempt them from future opportunities to serve the people if in fact it's an officer breaking this treaty. The white man/ cops can remain the leading cause as to why the minorities continue to be suppressed. Every police station will then allocate X number of funds for the offense they've committed on humanity in today's day and age towards an agreed upon remedy to help with their future and ability to flourish.

Should it be the person within the race that urgently wants and needs this peace who breaks the agreement, that person and their family influences who have personally failed them by not teaching respect, self control, how to follow instruction, accept consequences to poor behavior, or enough about the suppression the black man has faced for years, they should be excommunicated from the community and go down in history as THE cause of current day violence, disrespect, and cause of further division. They can also expect the choice they've made in resisting to be considered an action that is endangering the life/lives of the other party and deadly force is deemed completely necessary and warranted. The excuse of anyone but yourselves holding you back is no longer valid.

Are BLM willing to place all trust in their beliefs of innocence and appropriate behavior?
Are police willing to do the same?

This is what BLM is fighting for... No more deadly force on law abiding blacks.

The police are not mind reader's, and should not consider defiance and fight as anything other than a threat. They are paid protectors of us all. As a result of their willingness to put themselves in harm's way for the people of all colors, they are granted the ability to use their best judgement on whether or not forceful action is used. *Refer to definition of forceful action above.

That's what BLM wants. That's what police officials need and deserve. If you can't get behind that agreement, you really need to analyze the reasons why.... You will find nothing but the lack of trust you have in one party over the other is the true problem with society today. Would you sign this treaty? If not, why? What would need to be modified?

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