Blackwater threatens U.S. democracy

[pegwinn]

Private forces that aren't subject to our laws, our control and which are without accountability can pull you out of your bed in the middle of the night and make you disappear. The same can be said of our or anyone's law enforcement. Jimmy Hoffa? Patriot Act? I advocated hiring posting a bounty.

No. I'm not a conspiracy theorist. But you do know that such forces in the wrong hands are exceedingly dangerous. ITA

You worry so much about literal interpretation of the Constitution, Phil, and refuse to acknowledge the appropriate court role in its interpretation, NOT True. I completely get what the court does. But, I am not obligated to simply say "Well, if the court said it, it must be right, no further discussion needed."

yet absolutely ignore the things that ARE a danger to our freedoms. I advocate the use of the "Letters of Marque and Reprisal" IOT set a bounty on our enemies head. Small scale operations etc. I don't see it as a danger except to our public relations.

Good points, something to think about.

 

[pegwinn]

Not even close. It's the bureaucracy perpetuating itself and the bureaucracy could give a rat's ass what side of the aisle you sit on. The jobs have to get done. Someone says let's downsize. Everyone jumps on board. They find out later there's no one ot tote their coffee and donuts, so they hire someone from a different appropriation to do it. It's a $ shell game.

And I was bitching about the expense LONG before we had a Republican President and y'all decided something was going on and to blame it on him.

Where were y'all when we got personnel cuts so bad our deployment tempo increased so i could spend even MORE time away from my family? You were patting yourselves on the back at Clinton's latest raid on my wallet is where. It wasn't an issue. Not until Bush became President, anyway.

Emphasis Added.

 

[Warner]

The way I see it, this war is going to devolve more and more to search and destroy missions. I don't really like the idea of hiring mercs in large scale. But, for say OBL, put a price on him of a billion in gold alive, or a million dead. Let the freelancers do all the border incursions and simply bring us back a body we can verify.

As to oversight....... we don't have to legitimize them in the future. These private firms have been legitimized because the .gov made em a large scale contract. If we did the "bounty" thing we simply openly post it and then wait for the first person to step forward with a bodybag.

Not really IMO. By simply issuing a bounty and waiting on greed to take it's course we can legitimately disavow them. By hiring them in large numbers directly, we are screwed.

Politically horrifying is when a team of green berets or seals are captured deep inside Pakistan, Iran, or Saudi Arabia and paraded on Al Jazeera.

Ummm... the bounty for Bin-Ladin currently stands at $52 mil. I am very close to an individual who has collected several million in bounties thus far and who hopes some day to collect his ~5% share of that $52 mil. when/if he recovers sufficiently from wounds received in his last "visit" to the ME

However, these individuals are more properly termed "consultants", not contractors. They tend to work in small groups and not under the umbrella of the large contracting firms.

 

[Paulie]

Why was this moved to Conspiracy Theories?

 

[Gunny]

Why was this moved to Conspiracy Theories?

Is there a question concerning an administrative action you would like to PM to me?

 

[pegwinn]

Ummm... the bounty for Bin-Ladin currently stands at $52 mil. I am very close to an individual who has collected several million in bounties thus far and who hopes some day to collect his ~5% share of that $52 mil. when/if he recovers sufficiently from wounds received in his last "visit" to the ME

However, these individuals are more properly termed "consultants", not contractors. They tend to work in small groups and not under the umbrella of the large contracting firms.

I don't care if they are called circus clowns or the Knights Templar. My point was that by simply issuing a constitutionally authorised letter of marque and reprisal, we can go after folks.

I assume the 52 mil is for a live body?

 

[Paulie]

I don't care if they are called circus clowns or the Knights Templar. My point was that by simply issuing a constitutionally authorised letter of marque and reprisal, we can go after folks.

I assume the 52 mil is for a live body?

Sorry, but 52 million measly dollars is fucking CHUMP CHANGE for tracking down and capturing or killing the most wanted man on the planet.

The incentive is not great enough. I can't even believe the bounty is only that high. It should be like what you said. In the billions, and in GOLD. Or even diversified.

If the government can spend as wild as they do on battles that don't even have anything to do with Bin Laden, they can offer AT LEAST as much for Bin Laden HIMSELF.

You'd probably find a lot more people willing to take that risk.

Almost makes you wonder if they really want him captured or not.

 

[pegwinn]

Sorry, but 52 million measly dollars is fucking CHUMP CHANGE for tracking down and capturing or killing the most wanted man on the planet.

The incentive is not great enough. I can't even believe the bounty is only that high. It should be like what you said. In the billions, and in GOLD. Or even diversified.

If the government can spend as wild as they do on battles that don't even have anything to do with Bin Laden, they can offer AT LEAST as much for Bin Laden HIMSELF.

You'd probably find a lot more people willing to take that risk.

Almost makes you wonder if they really want him captured or not.

The big money is for a live body. That way we can interrogate him and not have to deal with him being a martyr. The low end is for a verifiable dead OBL. I don't want someone killing a lookalike and skating off with the money.

I'd pay in gold assuming that the guys who do the deed are not going to be interested in a wire transfer. But I could be wrong.

I am pretty unsophisticated about this kind of stuff. I was taught that the best way was to simply go in and kill everything that moves. Then sort thru the bodies until you find what you are looking for. This mental exercise will allow me to be a more nuanced person.

 

[eots]

Why was this moved to Conspiracy Theories?

because someone suggested that these blackwater forces may be used domestically

 

[eots]

DEFCON Red: Blackwater’s CS Gassing Increases Threat to DOMESTIC Security


http://thestrangedeathofliberalamer...ng-increases-threat-to-domestic-security.html

 

[Warner]

I don't care if they are called circus clowns or the Knights Templar. My point was that by simply issuing a constitutionally authorised letter of marque and reprisal, we can go after folks.

I assume the 52 mil is for a live body?

Just a body, or proof of having killed him. $50 mil from the US Government, another $2 mil from the Pilots association. There are also some private bounty offerings which are not open to all comers.

 

[Taomon]

A cabal of private contractors, closely aligned with the Bush administration and usually employing “ex” military officers, now dominates the U.S. national security state — and by extension, much of the world.

In the duplicitous “War on Terror,” mercenary armies like DynCorp, Blackwater USA, KBR, Custer Battles, and Aegis plunder Iraq and other victims of Pax Americana, operating with no rules of engagement and near-total legal immunity, usually earning at least four times the salaries of enlisted U.S. soldiers.

When not on urban patrol, these gangs provide “security” for U.S. diplomats, lucrative oil fields, and profiteering “reconstruction” contractors like Bechtel, Fluor corporation, and Halliburton.

The Hartford Courant calculated a total of 180,000 individual private contractors operating in Iraq, along with 169,000 U.S. soldiers.

Mercenaries are frequently linked to illegal arms dealing, resembling a privatized Iran-Contra network. On Sept. 22, the AP reported, “Federal prosecutors are investigating whether Blackwater USA employees illegally smuggled into Iraq weapons that may have been sold on the black market and ended up in the hands of a U.S.-designated terrorist organization.”


Today, these soldiers of fortune possess an apocalyptic array of weapons capable of converting Planet Earth into a pile of dust, or at best, a police-state control grid. But in the face of permanent annihilation, too many Americans wallow in whirlpools of systematic denial, avoiding this existential crisis because it’s “depressing” or “boring.” Others parrot puerile propaganda about “Islamofascism.”

But those hoping to prevent further bloodshed should consider more salient questions: What are the real costs of America’s permanent wartime economy? Should private armies remain legally immune? Exactly which mercenaries control the future of warfare, surveillance, and ultimately, human destiny? And how can they be stopped before leading to a new Thirty Years’ War?

One of the key developments to a closing society is the creation of a para-military force that operates outside of the law. For example, the Nazi party utilized the Brownshirts as they gained power.

Blackwater, Tripod and others like them are a paramilitary force at the disposal of the Pentagon. And who does the Pentagon answer to?

 

[eots]

One of the key developments to a closing society is the creation of a para-military force that operates outside of the law. For example, the Nazi party utilized the Brownshirts as they gained power.

Blackwater, Tripod and others like them are a paramilitary force at the disposal of the Pentagon. And who does the Pentagon answer to?

a small cabal of elitist ?

 

[pegwinn]

DEFCON Red: Blackwater’s CS Gassing Increases Threat to DOMESTIC Security


http://thestrangedeathofliberalamer...ng-increases-threat-to-domestic-security.html

Lessee, it happened in Iraq and thus kills the "domestic" issue pretty easily.

Hmmmm, CS is some badass stuff. Yeah, I remember doing PT on many occasions within gas chambers from 81-03. To put a point to it, the author is a moron who didn't do his homework.

1) Eyes and respiratory tract. When an unmasked person enters a cloud of CS, the effects are felt almost immediately. Incapacitation begins in 20 to 60 seconds, depending upon the degree of agent concentration. The effects last for 5 to 10 minutes after removal to fresh air. There is marked burning pain in the eyes with copious lacrimation and blepharospasm, thin mucous nasal discharge, coughing, and dyspnea. Following heavy exposures, there may be nausea and vomiting. Exposure to extremely high concentrations in an enclosed space may cause tracheitis and bronchitis. Even if that happens, permanent damage is very unlikely.-- Source

BTW, the blackwater bubbas are really lucky that one of the poor uneducated slobs referred to by Senator Kerry had the self discipline not to return fire.

 

[godhelpus]

Why was this moved to Conspiracy Theories?

Good point , thats the problem , too many real issues are being thrown to the conspiracy theory realm

 

[onedomino]

Why was this moved to Conspiracy Theories?

Because there is no garbage disposal? This thread is an idiotic mess of mindless paranoid speculation and lies that begins with this completely off the wall statement: "A cabal of private contractors, closely aligned with the Bush administration and usually employing “ex” military officers, now dominates the U.S. national security state — and by extension, much of the world." Totally ludicrous. This kind of braindead crap is a complete waste of bandwidth and an insult to the intelligence of those that participate on this board.

 

[godhelpus]

Hate to break it to you but blackwater IS A cabal of private contractors, closely aligned with the Bush administration and usually employing “ex” military officers, and foreign nationals operating in Iraq for the U.S. government, also were deployed in the U.S. after hurricane katrina . Blackwater is a international operation With their own fleet of planes , tanks , armored vehicles, helicopters , ect. . That is not a conspiracy theory but a fact. Also go to blackwaters website and look at the the local police departments they are training throught our country. The fact they were deployed on U.S. streets in new orleans has set a very scary precident. These are mercinaries our corrupt government has hired. Everything in this country has been privateized to fatten the pockets of our corrupt leaders. These soldiers are loyal to blackwater not to the people of the united states.

 

[onedomino]

Hate to break it to you but blackwater IS A cabal of private contractors, closely aligned with the Bush administration and usually employing “ex” military officers, and foreign nationals operating in Iraq for the U.S. government, also were deployed in the U.S. after hurricane katrina . Blackwater is a international operation With their own fleet of planes , tanks , armored vehicles, helicopters , ect. . That is not a conspiracy theory but a fact. Also go to blackwaters website and look at the the local police departments they are training throught our country. The fact they were deployed on U.S. streets in new orleans has set a very scary precident. These are mercinaries our corrupt government has hired. Everything in this country has been privateized to fatten the pockets of our corrupt leaders. These soldiers are loyal to blackwater not to the people of the united states.

You specifically said, that they "now dominates the U.S. national security state — and by extension, much of the world," blank-for-brains. godhelpYOU.

 

[jillian]

Not even close. It's the bureaucracy perpetuating itself and the bureaucracy could give a rat's ass what side of the aisle you sit on. The jobs have to get done. Someone says let's downsize. Everyone jumps on board. They find out later there's no one ot tote their coffee and donuts, so they hire someone from a different appropriation to do it. It's a $ shell game.

And I was bitching about the expense LONG before we had a Republican President and y'all decided something was going on and to blame it on him.

Where were y'all when we got personnel cuts so bad our deployment tempo increased so i could spend even MORE time away from my family? You were patting yourselves on the back at Clinton's latest raid on my wallet is where. It wasn't an issue. Not until Bush became President, anyway.

Disagree wholeheartedly... has nothing to do with downsizing. It has only to do with privatization, as I observed earlier. What's downsized if we're still paying for it?

I'd suggest you look at this:

http://www.mvp-seattle.com/pages/pageFascism.htm

And, mind you, I don't think we're there. But I do think there are certain warning signs that really should be making us more vigilant. But the conspiracy theorist crowd has no crediblity because they see government fingers everywhere. And the right misses it because if Clinton or Obama were to do a good chunk of the things that Bush has, the right would be losing its collective mind.