Blacksea-Brothers: Russia and Turkey

[ekrem]

This thread will look into cultural, economic and geopolitical approximation of Russia and Turkey.

Cultural:

Year to year more and more Russians are comeing to Turkey for holiday. They are millions. Via mouth-propaganda in Russia more and more come and there is a cultural exchange between Russians and Turks.
Also many Russians come to work to Turkey in beaches as animators, artists and so on. Meditarenean-Flavour.
Russian-Turkish marriages are sky-rocketing.

Russians and Turks have registered 200 thousand marriages in the past ten years. Statistics say 60 thousand brides left Russia to live in Turkey and 140 thousand bridegrooms left Turkey to live with their wives in Russia, where they work in construction, trade and business.

http://www.vor.ru/Russian_Economy/excl_next329_eng.html

Ever more Russian tourists fly to Turkey, in order to recover at the beautiful beaches of the country.

Beside Russian families also young Russians discovered Turkey for itself. Pretty often a small dear adventure develops in the vacation. The young women specially estanblished for it the Internet forums turkey-info.ru and turkey.ru. Here the visitors use the opportunity to inform about country and in particular men.

Love and Sex allincluding
The women exchange themselves over hotel employees, with whom they had an adventure, others recommend their put down lovers and again different continue to give readily information over the sexual qualities of the men. A young Russian published and asks even the picture of a Turkish gastronomer from Marmaris with the name Serdar on turkey-info.ru whether there are women, who know details about him whether Serdar is suited for somewhat or it is to rather leave the fingers of it. Serdars picture is not the only picture of a Turkish man on these sides. Also different visitors use the opportunity, which photos of men, who learned her to know on routes, in hotel plants or at the beach, to publish - perhaps the one odere other something has to report on him, finds it.

Almaz Niyazaliyev cares for the Turkey forums of the sides and explains the goal of the two Internet portals: “Here you find to information, which there are in no travel guide of the world. We furnished for example forums, which are used only by women, who are married with Turks or spend their vacation in Turkey. Everything is discussed fully by the hotels up to the Turkish men here.” Daily 30,000 to 40,000 Russians these sides visit, supplement Almaz Niyazaliyev.

http://translate.google.com/transla...&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=/language_tools

Off course these are also "inofficial" numbers.
Russian and Turkish mafia also are makeing Turkey the biggest market for slavic prostitutes.

Turkey, with its booming economy and lax visa requirements, is becoming the world's largest market for Slavic women

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/06/27/news/turkey.php

We call them Natasha's and they are everywhere in Turkey.

Economic

I will first bring something unrelated to Russia and Turkey, so to show where Russian-Turkish business relations stand.
For example Iranian-Russian bilateral trade:

The Iranian Ambassador in Moscow said that the volume of trade between Iran and Russia has surpassed $2.2 billion in 2006

http://www.iranian.ws/iran_news/publish/article_22518.shtml

For example China-Russia:

Bilateral trade has been soaring of late, hitting US$33.4 billion in 2006

http://www.china.org.cn/english/BAT/213471.htm

Now to Turkey:

In 2006 Turkish-Russian foreign trade volumes reached a record high of $20 billion

http://www.bsec-organization.org/admin/TodaysZaman26.06.2007.pdf

At the End of 2007 trade between Russia and Turkey will be 25 Billion $ and will be 2,5 times higher than USA-Turkey trade.
Together with Russian tourists in Turkey, Turkish construction firms in Russia and bilateral Investments total business is well above 30 Billion $.

Political in next post.

 

[ekrem]

This is a very good analysis.
Please take your time to read.

The source is non-English, so it will be machine translation,
But i will edit machine translation so it is better to read as much as possible.

Black sea brothers shall you be
by Michael Thumann

While Europe quarrels with Turkey, the country looks for new friends in the east. The largest and most important partner is called Russia.

From Istanbul
It was once a beautiful time, in which Europe was a wooed, loved and coveted continent. On its west borders the peaceful Atlantic, at its east border kindly smaller countries, which wished themselves nothing more than belonging to EU. They called themselves candidates. Beyond these states extended two former large empires, which had once threatened Europe long time ago: Russia and Turkey.
They called themselves now partners and had become admirers of Europe. The Russians wanted to live with Europeans in a "common European house" and Turkey dreamed from the entry to the European Union. That was a beautiful time, the nineties. This time is past.

Today someone is considered from yesterday, who dreams. The European Union suffers from its outside attractiveness and looks for sense and a goal. Some Europeans would leave the new EU-States in East-Europe completely outside. Strengthened Russia sees no more a model in Europe, but an expansion area for its Gas-companies.

Turkey doubts and becomes despaired of its application for admission in EU. Wanted still nearly 70 per cent of all Turks to join EU in the year 2004, today once 54 per cent find this worthwhile. The negotiations over an entry keep running, the progress report of the Turkish reforms will be evaluated by EU on 8 November in a report. It will be very critical. Europeans and Turks quarrel already now about Cyprus, and perhaps it will come to the abortion of the discussions. Some Turks would be not at all wrong, if so.

Vladimir Schirinowskij lets itself be welcomed at the Bosphorus
Turkey opened its view. To the east direction, Iran, on which after an inquiry of the German Marshall fund 43 percent of Turks look with pleasure.
To the south, the Arab world, which speaks ever friendlier about the Muslim Turks. To the north, Russia, which is recently more pleasant to the Turk than the NATO-ALLIED USA.
Unnoticed by Europe, in the east of the old continent geopolitical certainities are dissovleing, the outlines of new alliances are being developed. The Russian-Turkish approximation is the probably most important change on European borders.
At four places we can learn more about:
- At the black sea
- in the Turkish parliament
- at the Ministry of the Prime Minister
- as well as in the office of an expert for new Turkish foreign policy.

A few years ago the known world was to end for a Turk looking somewhere behind the grey vapor over the Black Sea. Beyond the Black Sea was a strange culture, another society system, a threatening and hostile country: Russia. Over centuries the sea separated the two countries. The Russian Emperor "Peter the Great" conquered at the end of 17th Century the coastal town Asow from the Ottomans, before Peter lost it thereafter again to the Ottomans. "Katharina the Great" conquered her new Russia at the black sea, where Turkish settlements layed before. "Nikolaus I." grumbled the Ottomans as the "ill man", which Nikolaus thought to succed. The Europeans played Turks and Russians often against each other out, for example at the end of the Crimean Wars in 1856 and on the Berlin Congress in 1878. Russian and Ottoman Empire where in 14 wars against each other, from which Turkey lost nearly everything. Not to repeat itself, Turkey joined NATO in 1952 in view of the Soviet threat, looked for protection with America.

Today Turkey attaches to this NATO-shielding ever less value. With Russia there is a fixed connection on the ground of the Black Sea: a Gas-Pipeline, mentioned as "Blue Stream". Russia supplies already 65 per cent of Turkey's natural gas needs. On the surface of Black Sea, Russian and Turkish naval ships practice side on side and thereby renounce gladly American companionship.
Russian tankers in the Bosphorus are, different than still a few years ago, no more a problem for Turkey.

In an office of the Turkish parliament in Ankara a large map of Europe hangs on the wall. If this map should completely suddenly fall down, behind it hangs still another reserve map. A map from the west of the Black Sea to the East extending into Eurasia with Turkey, Russia and Central Asia. This map belongs to Nevzat Yalcintaş, a delegate of the governing conservative-Muslim AKP and boss of the Turkish-Russian group of parliamentarians. Yalcintaş is proud, because he leads the largest Parliament groups in Turkish Parliament. 287 parliamentarians joined this friendship brigade out of 550 parliamentarians, before the parliamentarian group had to stop applications. Russia is "in".

Nevzat Yalcintaş is an attention-ordering man of raised physis and deep voice. He drives four to five times a year to Moscow, a medal from president Putin he already has. "Russia became very important for Turkey", he says. "We live in a golden period of our relations." His prime minister sees that similar. Within only a year Recep Erdoğan and Vladimir Putin met five times. Moscow campaigns these Parliamentarians and gladly stresses the "respect" to Turkey, probably knowing that such fine feeling does not make happy many Frenchmen, German and Austrians.
In November Yalcintaş gets an attendance from a Russian, who dreamed once in his book "the last jump to the south" about the Russian expansion into Turkish influence zone. Vladimir Schirinowskij comes to Turkey. And Turkey looks forward to him.

And the many disputes between Russia and Turkey? Cyprus? "Over these disputes the Turks argue also with the European Union", says Nevzat Yalcintaş. The Moscowites support for the Kurds, the Turkish assistance for the Chechens? "Passé" since a meeting of Putin and Erdoğan in 2005. Since that time the Russians did not gave a hideout to the PKK and do not offer or give any support, since that time the Turks block each Chechnian request for aid.

Also south to the Caucasus an approachment happens. Traditionally the Russians understand themselves well with the Armenians; on the other hand the Turks do not have relations traditionally with Armenia except a controversy over the Turkish Armenian massacres in 1915. This does not stress Russians and Turks meanwhile. A new development however interests Moscow much more: Turkey's relations to Georgia. Turkish businessmen carry on lively trade with the trunk state Abchasia which wants to seperate from Georgia, and was created by Russia in 1992. Georgia did not let Turkish ships on the way to Abchasia enter and arrested the crew. Ankara was furious and in the Kremlin the Russians now hope to be able to win a new ally against Georgia. These new Caucasian constellations also affect Europe.

If one inquires in the office of Prime Minister Recep Erdoğan, where Turkey stands today, one receives this answer: "in the center". Ahmet Davutoglu, who is Erdogan's foreign policy advisor and who accompanies the Prime Minister with many trips into world politics is responsible for this philosophy. Ankara leads negotiations of accession with the European Union, plays an important role in NATO with troops in Bosnia, Kosovo and Afghanistan, says Davutoglu. The government pursuits a "zero-problem politics" with the neighbours and has developed new methods ("softly power"). It shows operational readiness level on other continents – in Asia, Africa, Latin America. And it wants to develop the relations with the great powers "parallel and supplementing to each other".

Russians and Turks are tired of the democracy lessons

How the Turkish foreign policy in the reality looks nowadays Suat Kiniklioglu knows. He is boss of the American-German Marshall fund in Ankara and one of the few Interpreters of the Turkish-Russian relations. For him there are three substantial connections: Humans, business and the common protection against third, which for the west should be particularly interesting.

The fact that Russians travel much Europe knows meanwhile. But particularly they gladly drive into Turkey. Russians are already nearly as often seen in Turkish hotels as Germans. The number of Turkish-Russian marriage ceremonies rises rapidly. Journalists of the large newspapers and television stations support best relations with Moscow. And naturally the trade associations in the boom-cities Istanbul and Moscow campaign for closer exchange.

"the trade is the driving strength", says Kiniklioglu. Moscow has to offer above all oil and gas and is today already the main servicer of Turkey with gas, although Turkey is so near to the the fields of Iran and central Asia. Russia would like to make Turkey the gas transit country to the south, toward Israel. The Turks send their flying building companies to Russia and work at sparkleing Moscow. Businessmen of both sides invest amounts of billion $ into the neighbour.

Russians and Turks sound most harmoniously however, if they talk over third – over the west, above all the USA. Russians and Turks consider the American projects in the region highly dangerous. The US promotion of the Kurds in the Iraq displeases the Turks, rebellious Georgia annoys Moscow. When asked about the American idea to spread democracy by revolution and regime fall in Eurasia and the Middle East, Turks and Russians hairs touch the outrageiously the mountains. Therefore they try to hold out the Americans from the Black Sea. The Alliance of the neighboring states like the Black Sea Economic Cooperation do not want to open Black Sea for the USA. NATO maneuvers and a NATO expansion into the Black Sea is not welcomed in both capitals. They rather practice NATO-like under itself and call that well english-american "Black Sea Harmony" – without Americans.

The Turkish military understands itself thereby in the best way with Moscow. Fully sick of democracy lessons from America, the progress reports and attitude of the European Union, complaining over the "genocide" over the Armenians and about the stalinistic crimes in Ukraine.

The Turkish military and the Kremlin leaders worry themselves not about human rights, but about the strong central state, so that intractable minorities do not split their countries. In the Kremlin nobody is interested in Kurd rights and in the General Staff to Ankara nobody is interested in cleanings against Chechens.

This axis of the morally excluded is not a new Alliance, politicaly or militarily. The Turks are member of NATO, and they negotiate with the European Union about the entry, still. But a shift of weight is assesd and diagnosed. The historically unmatched approximation of both countries narrows the area for American and European policy.

Whether the European Union commission wants to shift pipelines past at Russia over Turkey to Europe, whether Brussels and Washington want to cement the independence of the Ukraine, whether the Germans would like to bind – during their European Union council presidency - the smaller peoples of Eastern Europe and central Asia more strongly to the west; everywhere Russians and Turks put in a word. And if Russia and Turkey agree and say a united "no!", Europeans and Americans can put their plans about the large east into the shredder.

http://www.zeit.de/2006/45/Tuerkei?page=all

 

[Gunny]

This thread will look into cultural, economic and geopolitical approximation of Russia and Turkey.

Cultural:

Year to year more and more Russians are comeing to Turkey for holiday. They are millions. Via mouth-propaganda in Russia more and more come and there is a cultural exchange between Russians and Turks.
Also many Russians come to work to Turkey in beaches as animators, artists and so on. Meditarenean-Flavour.
Russian-Turkish marriages are sky-rocketing.


http://www.vor.ru/Russian_Economy/excl_next329_eng.html



http://translate.google.com/transla...&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=/language_tools

Off course these are also "inofficial" numbers.
Russian and Turkish mafia also are makeing Turkey the biggest market for slavic prostitutes.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/06/27/news/turkey.php

We call them Natasha's and they are everywhere in Turkey.

Economic

I will first bring something unrelated to Russia and Turkey, so to show where Russian-Turkish business relations stand.
For example Iranian-Russian bilateral trade:

http://www.iranian.ws/iran_news/publish/article_22518.shtml

For example China-Russia:

http://www.china.org.cn/english/BAT/213471.htm

Now to Turkey:

http://www.bsec-organization.org/admin/TodaysZaman26.06.2007.pdf

At the End of 2007 trade between Russia and Turkey will be 25 Billion $ and will be 2,5 times higher than USA-Turkey trade.
Together with Russian tourists in Turkey, Turkish construction firms in Russia and bilateral Investments total business is well above 30 Billion $.

Political in next post.

LMFAO. And you claim to be smart.