Blacklisted by History: The Untold Story of Senator Joe McCarthy -- M Stanton Evans

[Father Time]

That's my next mission.

You've been handing out F's to all the wrong people.

Nancy Reagan listened to astrologers and FDR listened to Communist spies.

Hard to tell which group is more full of shit.

Stay uneducated. Don't pick up a book on Venona or McCarthy, that way you'll remain convinced you're correct when you make these asinine statements

So you think Astrologers aren't full of shit or do you think communist spies aren't full of shit?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The truth is that McCarthy was an alcoholic demagogue who did not care about the welfare of America, who created a witch hunt to gather power to himself, and who was pulled down by his own party.

Pay attention to response of the loons: they will ignore the above truth and strike out into uncharted waters. Fun to watch them splash around.

The truth is that, alcoholic demagogue or not, he was STILL more patriotic and more correct than your entire party and end of the political spectrum, then and now. It's gotta sting to know you suck that badly.

FYI, it's not called a "witch hunt" when you actually find what you were looking for.

Pay attention to the non-response of the JakeStarkey: he will ignore the above truth and strike out into well-charted lies. Fun to watch him run like a scalded bitch.

It's also not overly impressive when you hit the broadside of a barn with a machine gun and a 1000 or so bullets.

I have no doubt that McCarthy actually found a few Communists. During the Red Scare so many people were accussed of being Communists that you practically had to have hit someone. Somewhere.

Claiming McCarthy had insight is like praising me for my detective work when I claim that there is a corrupt politician in Washington.

How Starkey-like in the complete lack of any facts to back up an uneducated opinion.

I started this thread by saying that the list McCarthy used was stolen out of the National Archives in 1993. It was not THOUSANDS of names, but it should have been. It must have been accurate enough to terrify someone Communist loyalist to take it from the public domain.

Moreover, I've listed here key people that Roosevelt relied upon and took advise from and directed US policy that were genuine Communist spies, and handed Yugoslavia to Tito, Eastern Europe to Moscow and China to Mao.

If that's not enough to get angry about damage I don't what is!

Is that just not a big deal? Was turning Europe to Stalin and Mao to China just not a big enough deal?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Hard to tell which group is more full of shit.

Stay uneducated. Don't pick up a book on Venona or McCarthy, that way you'll remain convinced you're correct when you make these asinine statements

So you think Astrologers aren't full of shit or do you think communist spies aren't full of shit?

What are you talking about? Seriously, I can't make heads or tails of it? Are you saying there were no spies or they just weren't effective? What?

 

[Father Time]

Stay uneducated. Don't pick up a book on Venona or McCarthy, that way you'll remain convinced you're correct when you make these asinine statements

So you think Astrologers aren't full of shit or do you think communist spies aren't full of shit?

What are you talking about? Seriously, I can't make heads or tails of it? Are you saying there were no spies or they just weren't effective? What?

I was making a joke saying both astrologers and commie spies are full of shit.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Oh and speaking of venona

Return to Responses, Reflections and Occasional Papers // Return to Historical Writings

I've seen this analysis and before I spend several hours or days joining the names to FBI memos and cells lead by people listed in Venona and just to be absolutely clear, the Memo from State that started McCarthy, and was the basis for the first list was removed from the National Archives.

So, yes, the list of names is a big fucking deal as Biden would say
--------------------------
I spot checked 2 names off the list. I found nothing on the first Ted Arndt, but the second Donald C. Blaisdell, while not listed in Venona (again, it was not mean to be a list of EVERYONE, just the main assets and operations) but he does turn up at US State as a close associate of Alger Hiss and worth keeping an eye on

 

[Cecilie1200]

The truth is that McCarthy was an alcoholic demagogue who did not care about the welfare of America, who created a witch hunt to gather power to himself, and who was pulled down by his own party.

Pay attention to response of the loons: they will ignore the above truth and strike out into uncharted waters. Fun to watch them splash around.

The truth is that, alcoholic demagogue or not, he was STILL more patriotic and more correct than your entire party and end of the political spectrum, then and now. It's gotta sting to know you suck that badly.

FYI, it's not called a "witch hunt" when you actually find what you were looking for.

Pay attention to the non-response of the JakeStarkey: he will ignore the above truth and strike out into well-charted lies. Fun to watch him run like a scalded bitch.

It's also not overly impressive when you hit the broadside of a barn with a machine gun and a 1000 or so bullets.

It's a fuckload more impressive than the left not hitting that barn ONCE. If being right were target shooting, the left apparently can't even hit the GROUND effectively.

And that's aside from the fact that ALL of McCarthy's bullets struck the target.

I have no doubt that McCarthy actually found a few Communists. During the Red Scare so many people were accussed of being Communists that you practically had to have hit someone. Somewhere.

Claiming McCarthy had insight is like praising me for my detective work when I claim that there is a corrupt politician in Washington.

Sorry, Sparky, but that theory don't fly, neither. For you to be correct (aside from a miracle), it would require that McCarthy made dozens and dozens of wild accusations, with only a few of them being correct and the rest being wrong. As yet, you and your comrades have yet to point out EVEN ONE person McCarthy investigated who was not, at the very least, the security risk he claimed, and at most, a Soviet agent/useful idiot.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Leftists on the subject of McCarthy really do remind me of Mammy Yokum, stomping around and yelling, "I has spoken!", as though the fact that they have given us the script they have decided is "the way things really were" should settle all questions once and for all and pre-empt any revisiting of history.

The truth is that McCarthy was an alcoholic demagogue who did not care about the welfare of America, who created a witch hunt to gather power to himself, and who was pulled down by his own party. "I has spoken!"

Frank and PC are completely witless about the Chinese Civil War and the effect of the U.S. on it. Absolutely no time needs to be spent on their bullshit. "I has spoken!"

McCarthyism is THE prime example in the 20th century that even in America a few devious authoritarians can turn the US government into a Stalin-like machine that destroys the lives of innocent people. "I has spoken!"

Come to think of it, leftists are like that on virtually every subject.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Cecilie does not get I am Republican.

Cecilie does not get that true red-blooded Republicans pulled McCarthy down because of his lying demagoguery that threatened the stability of the Republic.

Cecilie does not get the faux far right of the GOP will not permitted to rewrite American history.

Cecilie will crawl under rock eventually. She reminds of the commercial where the evil rattlesnake (Cecilie) with the baby rattle on the end of its tail ends up hiding from the laughter of the bunny rabbits.

Cecilie is so silly.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Cecilie does not get I am Republican.

Cecilie does not get that true red-blooded Republicans pulled McCarthy down because of his lying demagoguery that threatened the stability of the Republic.

Cecilie does not get the faux far right of the GOP will not permitted to rewrite American history.

Cecilie will crawl under rock eventually. She reminds of the commercial where the evil rattlesnake (Cecilie) with the baby rattle on the end of its tail ends up hiding from the laughter of the bunny rabbits.

Cecilie is so silly.

Jake? No one believes you're a Republican

You Leftist are modern Flat Earthers. Like the Flat Earthers, you have only your own rantings to show McCarthy was evil and wrong.

Now evidence, solid physical evidence has come from both the FBI and the Soviets themselves that not only totally validate McCarthy's Central Thesis but show that if anything, he vastly understated the nature of the problem.

 

[Mark LaRochelle]

Can you give us a list of all the people McCarthy claimed were Soviet agents working in the government, please?

And also a list of those who he exposed as Soviet agents that history has proven to actually BE Soviet agents?.

Lauchlin Currie
Solomon Adler
V Frank Coe
Cedric Belfrage
T.A. Bisson
Harold Glasser
David Karr
Mary Jane Keeney
Leonard Mins
Franz Newmann

While it's true that each of these is a documented Soviet agent, these are only some of the McCarthy suspects implicated in covert relationships with Soviet intelligence in the Venona decrypts. As Evans shows, Venona is only a very small part of the story. Many other McCarthy suspects are equally damningly implicated by FBI surveillance, confessions, defectors, the CPUSA archives and the Soviet archives smuggled out by Mitrokhin and Vassiliev.

For example, John Stewart Service is not mentioned in that fraction of the Venona traffic which was intercepted and decrypted, but he was caught red-handed on OSS surveillance delivering the Nationalist Chinese order of battle to the secret Communist Philip Jaffe.

You will have a hard time finding where McCarthy ever accused most of these suspects (or any others) of being Soviet agents. What he generally did was to document a suspect's extensive involvement with Communist fronts, known Communists, and Soviet agents, and that they failed to report such contacts, in violation of the law that required them, as federal officials, to do so.

McCarthy generally argued that such suspects fell under the auspices of the Truman loyalty order (e.g., "sympathetic association with any foreign or domestic organization, association, movement, group or combination of persons, designated by the Attorney General as totalitarian, fascist, communist, or subversive, or as having adopted a policy of advocating or approving the commission of acts of force or violence to deny other persons their rights under the Constitution of the United States, or as seeking to alter the form of government of the United States by unconstitutional means"), and therefore should have been dismissed from federal office as mandated by that executive order.

The fact that so many of McCarthy's suspects turned out also to be Soviet agents is gravy.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Can you give us a list of all the people McCarthy claimed were Soviet agents working in the government, please?

And also a list of those who he exposed as Soviet agents that history has proven to actually BE Soviet agents?.

Lauchlin Currie
Solomon Adler
V Frank Coe
Cedric Belfrage
T.A. Bisson
Harold Glasser
David Karr
Mary Jane Keeney
Leonard Mins
Franz Newmann

While it's true that each of these are documented Soviet agents, these are only some of the McCarthy suspects implicated in covert relationships with Soviet intelligence in the Venona decrypts. As Evans shows, Venona is only a very small part of the story. Many other McCarthy suspects are equally damningly implicated by FBI surveillance, confessions, defectors, the CPUSA archives and the Soviet archives smuggled out by Mitrokhin and Vassiliev.

For example, John Stewart Service is not mentioned in that fraction of the Venona traffic which was intercepted and decrypted, but he was caught red-handed on OSS surveillance delivering the Nationalist Chinese order of battle to the secret Communist Philip Jaffe.

You will have a hard time finding where McCarthy ever accused most of these suspects (or any others) of being Soviet agents. What he generally did was to document a suspect's extensive involvement with Communist fronts, known Communists, and Soviet agents, and that they failed to report such contacts, in violation of the law that required them, as federal officials, to do so.

McCarthy generally argued that such suspects fell under the auspices of the Truman loyalty order (e.g., "sympathetic association with any foreign or domestic organization, association, movement, group or combination of persons, designated by the Attorney General as totalitarian, fascist, communist, or subversive, or as having adopted a policy of advocating or approving the commission of acts of force or violence to deny other persons their rights under the Constitution of the United States, or as seeking to alter the form of government of the United States by unconstitutional means"), and therefore should have been dismissed from the federal office as mandated by that executive order.

The fact that so many of McCarthy's suspects also turned out to be Soviet agents is gravy.

I confess that thanks to a concerted effort by my teachers and media, I was totally lied to and mislead about McCarthy.

The facts tell a completely different story

 

[Mark LaRochelle]

Communists in the US Government... handed China to Mao

That makes me question the whole book right there.

I had the same reaction.

Until I read Blacklisted by History, I didn't know that the Soviet agent Solomon Adler was the source of falsified data on China provided to Marshall, Weidemeyer, and the State Department and used to formulate our catastrophic (70 million murdered) China policy. (I also didn't know that Adler was still at Treasury when McCarthy made his charges, whereupon he abruptly resigned and defected to Communist China, where he became a foreign espionage official.)

I didn't know that Adler's roommate and collaborator, John Stewart Service, falsified intelligence to harm U.S. ally China and aid the Communist Chinese rebels; that the Comintern regarded Service as a reliable intelligence source; that he was a close contact of Soviet agent Harry Dexter White; that he was caught red-handed covertly delivering the Nationalist Chinese Order of Battle to the secret Communist Philip Jaffe, or that he beat that rap through a "fix" engineered by the Soviet agent Lauchlin Currie. I also didn't know that it was only after McCarthy brought public attention to his case that the State Department finally dismissed Service in 1951. (Although portrayed for decades as an innocent martyr to McCarthyism, shortly before his death in 1999 Service confessed that he had falsified intelligence to aid the Communists in China because "I wanted them to win.")

I didn't know that Virginius Frank Coe conspired with Soviet agent Harry Dexter White to deliver U.S. occupation currency printing plates to the Soviets, or to obstruct a crucial gold loan to Nationalist China, ordered by FDR. (I also didn't know that, after declining on grounds of potential self-incrimination to answer McCarthy's query as to whether he had been involved in Soviet espionage, Coe departed the IMF abruptly in 1952, defecting, like Adler, to Communist China, where he worked as a government propagandist.)

I learned many other things from this book about policy subversion by Soviet agents in the U.S. government in the betrayal not just of China, but of Poland, Yugoslavia and other countries.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

And to this very day, even AFTER the USSR confirmed McCarthy was correct, Progressives line up to deride McCarthy.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Mark, go ahead and carefully check out the footnotes and then the source. Do your due diligence. Your opinion may well change.

 

[Mark LaRochelle]

“I didn’t much care for Joseph McCarthy’s ends, but I always admired his methods.”
M. Stanton Evans

"I never liked Nixon until Watergate."
M. Stanton Evans

As you probably know, these are jokes, in the style of George Bernard Shaw's "Work is the curse of the drinking class."

See William F. Meehan, III, "Evans, M. Stanton," First Principles, April 17, 2008: "A humorous speaker (example: “I didn’t much care for Joseph McCarthy’s ends, but I always admired his methods&#8221 and highly sought-after master of ceremonies..."

Also see James C. Roberts, "CPAC Over 30 Years: Conservatives Have Come a Long Way," Human Events, February 3, 2003: "Employing the droll, contrarian humor that has so endeared him to conservatives, Evans noted that he "never liked Nixon until Watergate."

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Mark, go ahead and carefully check out the footnotes and then the source. Do your due diligence. Your opinion may well change.

LOL!

From a guy who never picked the book up!

 

[Mark LaRochelle]

Mark, go ahead and carefully check out the footnotes and then the source. Do your due diligence. Your opinion may well change.

If you read the acknowledgments, you will see that I was involved in the research for Blacklisted by History. During the production process for this book, I read literally thousands of pages of primary source documents on McCarthy's cases.

Please identify the particular footnotes or sources that are in error, so I can bring the errors to the author's attention. Thank you in advance for your help.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You have accepted the spin, then, and I will accept that you have accepted that.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

It's a tough thing to realized you've been lied to your whole life. Some people can come to terms with it and accept the truth and move on, others just mumble something about "Footnotes" and "Spin" and remain ignorant

 

[Mark LaRochelle]

Frank, I don't think its possible to rationally examine the Chinese Civil war and come to the conclusion that the US Government handed Mao China. The "pro-democracy" side, and you have to be very very loose about what it means to be "pro-democracy" to even say that, was incredibly corrupt and inept.

If you read Blacklisted by History, the Morgenthau diaries, or the Amerasia papers, you will see that every forensic attempt to trace the source of this image of the Nationalist Chinese as "incredibly corrupt and inept" (and of the Communists as "democratic") traces directly back to Soviet agent Solomon Adler and his Chungking housemate and collaborator, John Stewart Service.

These views were flatly contradicted by more knowledgeable observers at the time, including the OSS team that parachuted into China for the purpose of assisting the Chinese in their defense against the Japanese invasion. This Service-Adler version has since been thoroughly demolished by historians such as Maochun Yu and Jung Chang.

It is instructive that neither Service nor Adler found the Nationalists to be corrupt or inept for most of the war, when the Soviet line was to support the Chinese government to keep Japan from attacking the Soviet far east. When it became apparent that Japan was losing its foothold China, the Soviet line flip-flopped, now denouncing the Nationalist Chinese government as "fascist," etc., as opposed to the "democratic" Communists. It was at this moment that Service and Adler suddenly discovered the corruption and ineptitude of the Nationalists.

As Evans commented, if the Soviet agents in the U.S. government didn't contribute to the fall of China to the Communists, it wasn't for lack of trying.