Black Man killed...for no reason?

[xsited1]

It was reported in my city of Louisville, KY that a man was throwing things up against the door of a woman (they were both black) and it frightented her so she called the police. When the police arrived the man had a hammer in his hand. The police tried to use pepper spray but the unit would not work so they tried to taser him twice and that did not work. They repeatedly told the black man to throw down the hammer and he came at them and they shot him 4 times, killing him. Now the Black Justice League is arguiing that the police did not have to kill him and could have used other force to do so. I am Black and do not feel that the police had any other choice...what do these ppl expect policeman to do when confronted with a person who can endanger THEIR LIVES? It makes me mad that everytime a Black person is killed by police the JUSTICE LEAGUE is condemning them instead of realizing that one day THEY MAY NEED THEM TOO!!

It would've been funny if he'd had a bong pipe. Then they could've said, "Put Down the Bong Pipe!"

 

[Againsheila]

What part of "Put the hammer down" didn't he understand?

fucking excuse me you bunch of rightous assholes....i live near a town that houses the nc school for the deaf.....about 1 of 4 people are deaf....they would not understand someone yelling "put down that hammer" but hey it seems to be open season on anyone not following the exact letter of the law.....

insulin shock....drug reaction....i could go on and on about medical conditions that result in odd behavior but hey just gun them fucking down...

He had a hammer, he was threatening the officers with that hammer. Their only choice was to shoot him and they only shoot to kill. Years ago, there was an officer who shot a man who after being stopped, reached into his pocket. The officer thought he was going for a gun, turns out he was going for a card that said he was deaf. The officer got off, it was a justified shooting, there is no way the officer could have known exactly what the guy was going for. I would think even a deaf person would know to put the hammer down without being told and not to come at the officers with it.

 

[Againsheila]

It was reported in my city of Louisville, KY that a man was throwing things up against the door of a woman (they were both black) and it frightented her so she called the police. When the police arrived the man had a hammer in his hand. The police tried to use pepper spray but the unit would not work so they tried to taser him twice and that did not work. They repeatedly told the black man to throw down the hammer and he came at them and they shot him 4 times, killing him. Now the Black Justice League is arguiing that the police did not have to kill him and could have used other force to do so. I am Black and do not feel that the police had any other choice...what do these ppl expect policeman to do when confronted with a person who can endanger THEIR LIVES? It makes me mad that everytime a Black person is killed by police the JUSTICE LEAGUE is condemning them instead of realizing that one day THEY MAY NEED THEM TOO!!

It would've been funny if he'd had a bong pipe. Then they could've said, "Put Down the Bong Pipe!"

Watched an episode of Bones....they pounded on a door and said "FBI". The guy answers the door with a bong in his hand. The FBI guys is going "you're kidding me, I say FBI, and you answer the door with a bong in your hand?"

now THAT was funny.

 

[Againsheila]

What part of "Put the hammer down" didn't he understand?

fucking excuse me you bunch of rightous assholes....i live near a town that houses the nc school for the deaf.....about 1 of 4 people are deaf....they would not understand someone yelling "put down that hammer" but hey it seems to be open season on anyone not following the exact letter of the law.....

insulin shock....drug reaction....i could go on and on about medical conditions that result in odd behavior but hey just gun them fucking down...

Bones brings up a good point!

What if they later found out this perp was deaf as a stone? Then what?

OK to kill someone who can't hear your instructions--through absolutely NO FUCKING FAULT OF HIS OWN? I don't think so.

Check my previous post.

 

[boedicca]

What part of "Put the hammer down" didn't he understand?

fucking excuse me you bunch of rightous assholes....i live near a town that houses the nc school for the deaf.....about 1 of 4 people are deaf....they would not understand someone yelling "put down that hammer" but hey it seems to be open season on anyone not following the exact letter of the law.....

insulin shock....drug reaction....i could go on and on about medical conditions that result in odd behavior but hey just gun them fucking down...

Good point about the deaf. But having dealt with a close relative who is a Type I and has gone into insulin shock a few times, a diabetic in that state would be so out of it as to not be a threat, imo.

 

[Diuretic]

I always wondered why cops can't just run away. Retreat back maybe 20 yards and reassess the situation. Another warning maybe, then if they still feel threatened, do what they must.

Bingo! That's what should have happened. As i said, there must be more to this.

How far are you going to run from someone coming at you with a hammer? You think he will stop? Once he moves toward those officers they are well within their rights and the law to fire on him. Use of deadly force is not an easy thing to do but thankfully these officers did not hesitate when they had to.

We shall see. However if you're suggesting that using a firearm to stop a man with a hammer is sop then let me off the bus right now.

You run as far as you need to. Four cops with one man chasing them with a hammer? Come on, there are plenty of tactics that could have been used. This wasn't a knife-edged weapon, no way would I advocate the same tactics as if the bloke had a bludgeoning instrument, which he did. As I said, I need to know more. If this is all they have then I wouldn't want to be them. Heck look what happened to the cops in the King case and they were justified in their use of force (if you bother to look at the entire case).

 

[Diuretic]

There's got to be more to this story. It must have been one hell size of a hammer. Maybe it was an axe? Perhaps it was Thor? Oh no sorry, wrong racial type. Now, a man comes at the cops with a hammer. A hammer. Not an axe? Not a fucking big katana? A hammer? A fucking hammer???????????????????

As I said, there has to be more to this. I want there to be more to it than a man coming at the cops with a hammer. Please, let it be so. Maybe the hammer had a big sharp edge on it? Did it have poison darts coming out of the hammer?

I need to know more.

It's a hammer, it could have broken open your skull...that is if it isn't too late already. <sarcasm intended>

Yes, if you stood there and let him <sarcasm definitely intended>.

 

[Diuretic]

I always wondered why cops can't just run away. Retreat back maybe 20 yards and reassess the situation. Another warning maybe, then if they still feel threatened, do what they must.

Bingo! That's what should have happened. As i said, there must be more to this.

BINGO???

Yeah. Sure. This is what we want and what we NEED!

We want cops who run away!

And if they DID retreat to regroup and reconsider, how many times are they obligated to keep retreating? Why stop at that first one?

"Why didn't you retreat some MORE, officer, before resorting to the use of a GUN against a poor man with nothing but a hammer?"

Cops can be heroes or villains. They can be good solid honest public servants or they can be slimey and dishonest self-servers.

But how the hell is a society expected to operate when we second guess every cop who is confronted with a situation like this?

I am sorry they had to shoot. I bet you anything they aren't very happy about it, either. But are we better off if THEY had been struck, injured and maybe killed by that weapon-bearing man who wasn't complying with obviously lawful orders? Or (however sad the loss of his life may be), are we better off, now?

One thing I need to point out - you have characterised cops wrongly. It's not either/or, it's the mix.

As for this event, as I said before, more info please. I do have to say though that I'm stunned at the apparent unquestioning acceptance that killing the bloke with a firearm was necessary. If four cops can't deal with a bloke with a hammer then they need to go back to the Academy or get some intense in-service training. Cops are paid to manage risks, that means that sometimes things can get a bit hairy for them, but they're supposed to be able to deal with those situations, that's what the training is about, that's why they're equipped the way they are and that's why they're organised the way they are.

 

[Diuretic]

You think maybe that a normal carpenters hammer is not a deadly weapon? I don't give a shit what color a man is if he's coming at me with a hammer he's going down hard.

Bull fucking shit. Going down hard. Unlawful killing.

Not here in the States, mate.

Naturally I'll concede I don't know anything about self defence law in KY or any other state for that matter.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Bingo! That's what should have happened. As i said, there must be more to this.

BINGO???

Yeah. Sure. This is what we want and what we NEED!

We want cops who run away!

And if they DID retreat to regroup and reconsider, how many times are they obligated to keep retreating? Why stop at that first one?

"Why didn't you retreat some MORE, officer, before resorting to the use of a GUN against a poor man with nothing but a hammer?"

Cops can be heroes or villains. They can be good solid honest public servants or they can be slimey and dishonest self-servers.

But how the hell is a society expected to operate when we second guess every cop who is confronted with a situation like this?

I am sorry they had to shoot. I bet you anything they aren't very happy about it, either. But are we better off if THEY had been struck, injured and maybe killed by that weapon-bearing man who wasn't complying with obviously lawful orders? Or (however sad the loss of his life may be), are we better off, now?

One thing I need to point out - you have characterised cops wrongly. It's not either/or, it's the mix.

As for this event, as I said before, more info please. I do have to say though that I'm stunned at the apparent unquestioning acceptance that killing the bloke with a firearm was necessary. If four cops can't deal with a bloke with a hammer then they need to go back to the Academy or get some intense in-service training. Cops are paid to manage risks, that means that sometimes things can get a bit hairy for them, but they're supposed to be able to deal with those situations, that's what the training is about, that's why they're equipped the way they are and that's why they're organised the way they are.

I believe that you will find that most military people will agree that we have had as much if not more training than most police with close in work like this, and if you have some nutcase swinging a hammer it is best that you do not attempt to stop him with your own head. These officers did what they had to do. Again it's not an easy thing to do simply what seemed to have to be done.

 

[Diuretic]

I would suggest that the military gets far more and better quality training in close quarters fighting than do most law enforcement personnel. And there's a reason for that - if you go close quarters in the military then there are only a few options. Sorry if I sound like I'm trying to be an expert on the military, I'm not, I have no military experience, but this is just an informed guess.

1. You kill the other person before they kill you.
2. You make the other person surrender and they become a POW.

Cops aren't the military and nor should they be nor think they are. The use of force doctrines are completely different. Cops are, or should be, subject to the same laws of necessity (self defence) as any other citizen. Those sorts of laws aren't to be found on the battlefield.

So, again with all due respect, the comparison isn't valid although it does give me a chance to put these points.

Must go, will try and expand later if the thread moves on.

 

[beowolfe]

I always wondered why cops can't just run away. Retreat back maybe 20 yards and reassess the situation. Another warning maybe, then if they still feel threatened, do what they must.

I've always wondered why, in cases like this, police just don't shoot the suspect's knees out. That would stop the suspect and not kill him.

 

[AllieBaba]

I always wondered why cops can't just run away. Retreat back maybe 20 yards and reassess the situation. Another warning maybe, then if they still feel threatened, do what they must.

Because if they run away and the man goes into the house and kills the woman, they get shit on.

Because if cops start running from criminals, they have no power to enforce the law.

How could they know if this man had other weapons on him or not? They didn't.

 

[beowolfe]

I always wondered why cops can't just run away. Retreat back maybe 20 yards and reassess the situation. Another warning maybe, then if they still feel threatened, do what they must.

Because if they run away and the man goes into the house and kills the woman, they get shit on.

Because if cops start running from criminals, they have no power to enforce the law.

How could they know if this man had other weapons on him or not? They didn't.

If you shoot a person's knees out, they aren't going anywhere and are not going to do anything other than wallow on the ground in serious pain.

 

[AllieBaba]

You've been watching way too many action movies.

If you miss, the guy is on you.
If you hit it and he's armed, you're dead.

 

[SFC Ollie]

I always wondered why cops can't just run away. Retreat back maybe 20 yards and reassess the situation. Another warning maybe, then if they still feel threatened, do what they must.

I've always wondered why, in cases like this, police just don't shoot the suspect's knees out. That would stop the suspect and not kill him.

Because when a life is in danger you aim for center of mass. Shooting to wound can get you killed.

 

[Diuretic]

Centre mass is right on the money - it's too damn hard to hit anything even from a close distance - in a stress situation.