Black man "goes to war" on City Hall, killing 5

[ScreamingEagle]

What's really disturbing about this case is his family's attitude. His brother practically excuses him for committing this atrocity as if he had some kind of right to "go to war" and kill city employees.

February 8, 2008

KIRKWOOD, Mo. | A brother of the man who killed five people at a Kirkwood City Council meeting defended the shooter’s actions this morning.

Standing across the street from the site of the killings, Gerald Thornton told reporters that his brother, Charles “Cookie” Thornton, had become “a country of himself” and was forced to “go to war” after the judicial system denied his claims of mistreatment.

“He didn’t go out shooting random people,” Gerald Thornton said. “He mapped out his strategy for war and executed it.”

Another brother, Arthur Thornton, told The Associated Press that his brother left a suicide note on his bed warning “The truth will come out in the end,” before he went on the deadly shooting spree.

Arthur Thornton, 42, said in an interview at the family’s home that he knew his brother was responsible for the killings when he read the one-line note.

“It looks like my brother is going crazy, but he’s just trying to get people’s attention,” Thornton said, explaining he believed the note reflected his brother’s growing frustration with local leaders.

Gerald Thornton said his brother’s problems with the city stemmed from disagreements over building permits. Charles Thornton owned a construction company, Cook Co., that was frequently cited for performing work without the proper permits.

Charles Thornton was cited for more than 126 violations totaling around $64,000, Gerald Thornton said.

The city’s arguments were wrong, his brother said, but when Thornton challenged them in court, his arguments were overruled. It was those failures to find justice in the courts that led him to act last night.

“I understand why he did it,” he said. “He declared war because of the actions done by the court.”

Gerald Thornton said he last saw his brother last night, but said he had no idea what he was about to do.

He had never known Charles Thornton to own or carry a gun, he said.

Still, Thornton said he did believe his brother’s actions were planned.

“Those people he went after were the people listed in his problems with the city,” Thornton said. “Once he was abused by the people in that hall over there he stood up and tried to rectify it.”

Surrounded by a crush of reporters, Gerald Thornton, two years Charles’ senior and one of nine siblings, verged on obstinate in his defense of his brother’s actions.

When asked if he felt for his brother’s victims, Thornton said: “No one wants to see loss of life over issues that should’ve been solved. We have educated people over there and they should’ve been able to see the things they were doing should’ve came to an end sooner.”

Thornton also raised the issue of race, suggesting that African Americans have a more difficult time exerting their rights and that his brother’s race was a factor in his difficulties with the city and in the courts.

http://www.kansascity.com/116/story/481269.html

 

[Shogun]

right up the road.


horrible, horrible news.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

right up the road.


horrible, horrible news.

Damn that's close.

What's the general feeling there about what the brother said?

 

[Shogun]

I haven't seen anything that comments on the relatives statements either way. Below is the feedback forum for the stl post-dispatch.

http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/ta...e-killed-or-wounded-in-the-kirkwood-shooting/


I'm curious to see how it turns out by sunday.

 

[William Joyce]

Check out these quotes:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/09/us/09missouri.html?ref=todayspaper

Mr. Thornton was black, and several residents of Kirkwood’s poor and mostly black Meachum Park neighborhood said Friday that the attack at City Hall was a sharp reminder of the racial division they say has plagued the city for decades. They were not willing to condemn Mr. Thornton, a Meachum Park resident, for what he had done.

"We are grieved, we are sorry, but they share in the responsibility,” Ben Gordon, a black man from nearby Webster Groves, said of city officials. “Cookie Thornton is to me a hero. I don’t condone murder. But as long as there is this separation, you’ll see more of this.”

Mr. Gordon spoke at a standing-room-only meeting in Meachum Park that had been called to talk about the killings. While no one else at the meeting was as outspoken as he, many expressed a frustration with what they called a double standard for black and white residents of Kirkwood. They said they thought Charles Thornton lost his tolerance of that reality.

“Cookie had anguish built up in him for the neighborhood,” said Charles Reynolds, a childhood friend.

Others in the city did not give the Meachum Park residents much support for their theory.

“They were all dedicated public servants,” Mr. Jones, the former mayor, said of the victims. “They were all very caring people, and Mr. Thornton, who we’ve known since he was in high school, felt he was being ill-treated by the city. That was not the style of the city or the Council members. They did not go into these types of things heavy-handed. It was unbelievable that Cookie Thornton thought he was being persecuted.”

 

[William Joyce]

In other words, it's whites' fault that... a black man opened fire and killed whites.

Hey, white guy at your computer in the suburbs with me: You think something might be wrong here? You have some questions about this, eh? You think you could be next, and don't like the idea? You're not alone.

http://www.amren.com/conference/2008/index.html

As they say in Lord of the Rings, "Open war is upon us."

 

[Working Man]

All you gun loving folks had better take some time off, TODAY, and go check you guns. Make sure that they can't be used by anyone who shouldn't have access to them.

We now have FIVE incidences, in the last couple of days, where guns were in the wrong hands.. Helping to keep them out of the wrong hands is our job... Saying it isn't our business is going to make it easy for Hillary, Oprah, and the rest of the left wing dipshits to make it a primary target this election, and afterwards (God Forbid).

The nut case who shot the Mayor, and the rest of the people, evidently had some bad moral values, and his family too.. His brother, who did seam to exonerate the murderer's actions is proof.

 

[JimH52]

The most disturbing part of this whole sad event is the obvious feeling within the black community that it was justified. This is not the old west. Never is a murder justified. That type of thinking is dangerous beyond words. It makes public employees everywhere rethink their careers.

Do our job and get killed. Pretty Sad!

 

[Shogun]

it's not like there is rioting in the streets of stl. Those people who side with the killer were going to do so REGARDLESS of the facts. I could extrapolate that to another mid east example but i'm sure id be called an antisemite.


as far as the gun rights are concerned.... tools, like anything else, don't pull their own trigger. The midigating factor here was a nutter lashing out against perceived persecution, not some scourge of gun violence. During the same period of the above mentioned FIVE negative gun stories I guarantee more people died from a car being driven. I think reasonable people can figure this out.

 

[Diuretic]

it's not like there is rioting in the streets of stl. Those people who side with the killer were going to do so REGARDLESS of the facts. I could extrapolate that to another mid east example but i'm sure id be called an antisemite.


........

Objectively speaking this defence of the killer's actions is simple rationalistion. It's a distasteful and disturbing rationalisation. It reminds me of the "OJ is not guilty" mindset.

Now, how did things get like this?

 

[mattskramer]

In other words, it's whites' fault that... a black man opened fire and killed whites.

Hey, white guy at your computer in the suburbs with me: You think something might be wrong here? You have some questions about this, eh? You think you could be next, and don't like the idea? You're not alone.

http://www.amren.com/conference/2008/index.html

As they say in Lord of the Rings, "Open war is upon us."

I consider playing the race card to be somewhat beneath me, but I can play the race game too.

If you want blacks to be the enemy:

1.) Find an article about a bad black person.
2.) Present it for people to see and draw their attention to race.
3.) Make gross generalizations that this happens very often.

If you want whites to be the enemy:

1.) Find an article about a bad white person.
2.) Present it for people to see and draw their attention to race.
3.) Make gross generalizations that this happens very often.

Just to prove how sorry the game is, I’ll give it a try. Here! Lookie lookie:

Another white man kills a black woman. It is the same old story.
When will these white thugs stop their racist war?

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2798&u_sid=10246514

The only significant thing that one accomplishes by posting these articles and drawing attention to the assailant’s race is to add fuel to the alleged race war. It is really sad and pathetic. Can’t we simply say that another crime took place – and leave it at that?

William. You remind me of the Japanese person isolated on a South Pacific Island in WWII for years and never realizing that the war is over. Lighten up. Most of us have learned to get along with people not of our race. Based on your postings, unless I’m mistaken, it seems like you haven’t.

 

[Diuretic]

I think the rationalisation of criminal behaviour is a justified discussion point. It has a history. Whites lynching blacks in the 1920s and 1930s (and further?) was rationalised. The KKK bombing Churches in the south in the 1960s was and is still being rationalised ("oh he's 92 now, how can you imprison him for something he did such a long time ago?").

This is just another in a long line and it's fair that it be discussed.

 

[Shogun]

Objectively speaking this defence of the killer's actions is simple rationalistion. It's a distasteful and disturbing rationalisation. It reminds me of the "OJ is not guilty" mindset.

Now, how did things get like this?

Sure sure... It also reminds my of every single Ghook post in every single thread having to do with Israel. Apparently, racism is only bad in certain circumstances.

 

[Shogun]

The only significant thing that one accomplishes by posting these articles and drawing attention to the assailant’s race is to add fuel to the alleged race war. It is really sad and pathetic. Can’t we simply say that another crime took place – and leave it at that?

um, so was Emmet Till's death MERELY another murder? Was the murders of James Chaney, Andrew Goodman, and Michael Schwerner worthy of not mentioning that whites lynched a black dude and two jews working for civil rights?

 

[bennylava]

I used to live in Kirkwood. Actually my mom lived there for about five years, I lived with her for about six months.
Kirkwood is a suburb of St.Louis, it is an old town that existed on it's own and got sucked into the suburbs of St.Louis. There are a lot of very rich people who live there, because it is a mile away from the Edward Jones headquarters.
There is also a part of it that has a lot of low income housing.
I would think that it would be particularly difficult to be living in poverty while surrounded by so much wealth.
To me this is more of a class issue than a racial issue. When you're living paycheck to paycheck or you're actually under the poverty level, and you live a mile away from million dollar houses, there's going to be a clash of the classes.

Having said all of that, this man and his brother are both probably mentally ill. Just my opinoin.

 

[mattskramer]

The only significant thing that one accomplishes by posting these articles and drawing attention to the assailant’s race is to add fuel to the alleged race war. It is really sad and pathetic. Can’t we simply say that another crime took place – and leave it at that?

um, so was Emmet Till's death MERELY another murder? Was the murders of James Chaney, Andrew Goodman, and Michael Schwerner worthy of not mentioning that whites lynched a black dude and two jews working for civil rights?

No. If people want to find out the details of such killings, then they can certainly do so. Yet, in my opinion, by bringing up the racial element, you are just perpetuating the race game/war. It gives people like William Joyce the license to participate. After such stories are run with strong attention placed on race, it becomes a bean-counting game. “See blacks are bad. Look at how many people they killed. “ “See whites are bad, see how many people they killed.” “Blacks are racist thugs. See the Black Panthers”. “Whites are racist thugs. See the skinheads and the KKK.” “Blacks are the scourge of society.” “No. whites are worse”. If we are lucky, it stops at words and hateful rhetoric. Hopefully it does not progress to physical violence. (Unfortunately, such is not often the case.) It just goes on and on and it will probably continue to go on and on for as long as people like William Joyce like to play this “we versus them” divisive game.

I like to play a different game. Find good things about people who are not within your group. For example: If you are White, find some good stories about black people. Even beyond that, why not try to find good things to say about all classes of people? Work on trying to improve those things that are bad within your own group (whatever group you choose to place yourself in). Doesn’t the Bible say something about cleaning your own eye before you complain about the dirt in someone else’s eye? Anyway, that is my take on the whole race stories thing.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

I think the significance of this article is being missed by some people. The family of the killer used racism as a justifiable reason for killing 5 people. This is not whites accusing blacks of doing a bad thing. This is blacks thinking that because they are black they can break the law when they don't get their way. It's like blacks pull out the race card whenever things don't go their way. (It's funny, you never hear about "poor, discriminated-against" asians blaming stuff on their race)

I saw them on TV. The attitudes of the brother and the mother stunk. They expressed no real sympathy for the FIVE innocent people that their family member murdered. To them it was like an expected and almost "justifiable" action to go kill people over an argument with City Hall because he was just a poor discriminated-against black man up against da man. I don't know about you, but I too have felt frustration toward City Hall - but I never took out my frustration in murdering people and justifying it in the name of my race.

Since when did belonging to a GROUP give anybody the right to disregard the law and kill people?

 

[William Joyce]

Yet, in my opinion, by bringing up the racial element, you are just perpetuating the race game/war.

I didn't bring up race. The killer and his supporters did.

 

[mattskramer]

I didn't bring up race. The killer and his supporters did.

Yes, but people like you parade it like a banner as if trying to make sure that everyone see how foolish this shooter’s family member(s) is, making sure that people know that they are Black. The comments were stupid and not worthy of being reported and the “news item” certainly did not warrant being spread around. Sometimes such comments are best left ignored to die on their own.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Yes, but people like you parade it like a banner as if trying to make sure that everyone see how foolish this shooter’s family member(s) is, making sure that people know that they are Black. The comments were stupid and not worthy of being reported and the “news item” certainly did not warrant being spread around. Sometimes such comments are best left ignored to die on their own.

What a duck-and-cover liberal hiding from the truth.

So you think that "reverse racism" that results in MASS MURDER should be IGNORED by the media?

If this was a white man shooting 5 innocent black people do you think the media would IGNORE it? You know that would be front page news for months, not a blip on the radar screen like these murders were.

Like a typical liberal you obviously also believe in manipulating the media and thus, free speech.