Biological race doesn't exists

[Samson]

So you admit that racial difference are genetic?

As far as phenotype is concerned? Yes. What else would they be? If this is going to diverge into some sort of social commentary that attempts to tie crime rates, intelligence or any of a plethora of other issues into genetics, I am immediately disinterested.

Eye color is GENETIC.

Whether or not we call all blue-eyed people a "race," somehow different that brown-eyed people, in anyway but the color of their eyes, is a human choice having nothing to do with biology.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

There is no race gene.

there's no 'eye colou' gene'


nor is there any 'hair colour gene'


you're an idiot

from:

Sunday, February 11, 2001 - Page updated at 12:00 AM

Local News | Race gene does not exist, say scientists | Seattle Times Newspaper

Moreover, science has repeatedly found far more variation within a given racial group than between racial groups.

And the guiding principle of race, skin color, is small and superficial in scientific terms.

Genetic research from the mid-'90s suggests much of our skin color comes from variations of just one of tens of thousands of genes. The gene may be involved in melanin production, leading to variations in the color of human skin and hair.

and that was in 2001. since then we have a better understanding.

http://www.thinkgene.com/there-is-no-such-thing-as-race/

 

[Bass v 2.0]

Flaylo has been lurking on my board, lol, but he's right, there is no such thing as biological race, i have three studies in my yahoo group that further debunk the notion of biological race. Look at this graphic:

 

[geauxtohell]

Eye color is GENETIC.

No shit. What part of the word "phenotype" do you not understand? So is skin color. More succinctly, black people inherit genes for red and brown pigments of melanin and their body degrades melanin more slowly than whites, which is the histology/physiology behind "black" and "white".

Whether or not we call all blue-eyed people a "race," somehow different that brown-eyed people, in anyway but the color of their eyes, is a human choice having nothing to do with biology.

I agree. Which is why I said "race" is a sociological construct and not a scientific issue in my opening post.

 

[JBeukema]

Race is a sociological construct. Scientifically speaking, there is not branch for "race" under the phylogenetic tree.

Yes, there is. It's called ecotype or, as lines diverge further subspecies

Another common term, used by the ABA, is breed

People are the skin color that they are because of the genetics they inherit

So you admit that racial difference are genetic?

genetics trigger things. there is NO race gene.

nor is there a 'species gene'


that means there's no such thing as genetic species


per your argument

 

[Bass v 2.0]

Human DNA Sequences: More Variation and Less Race
Jeffrey C. Long,1* Jie Li,1 and Meghan E. Healy2
1Department of Human Genetics, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI 48109-5618
2Department of Anthropology, University of New Mexico, Albuquerque, NM 87131
KEY WORDS race; DNA sequence; short tandem repeat; diversity; hierachical models



ABSTRACT Interest in genetic diversity within and
between human populations as a way to answer questions
about race has intensified in light of recent advances in
genome technology. The purpose of this article is to apply
a method of generalized hierarchical modeling to two
DNA data sets. The first data set consists of a small sample
of individuals (n 5 32 total, from eight populations)
who have been fully resequenced for 63 loci that encode a
total of 38,534 base pairs. The second data set consists of
a large sample of individuals (n 5 928 total, from 46 populations)
who have been genotyped at 580 loci that encode
short tandem repeats. The results are clear and somewhat
surprising. We see that populations differ in the amount
of diversity that they harbor. The pattern of DNA diversity
is one of nested subsets, such that the diversity in
non-Sub-Saharan African populations is essentially a subset
of the diversity found in Sub-Saharan African populations.
The actual pattern of DNA diversity creates some
unsettling problems for using race as meaningful genetic
categories. For example, the pattern of DNA diversity
implies that some populations belong to more than one
race (e.g., Europeans), whereas other populations do not
belong to any race at all (e.g., Sub-Saharan Africans). As
Frank Livingstone noted long ago, the Linnean classification
system cannot accommodate this pattern because
within the system a population cannot belong to more
than one named group within a taxonomic level. Am J
Phys Anthropol 000:000–000, 2009. VVC 2009 Wiley-Liss, Inc.

 

[JBeukema]

Okay. Thanks for the info. I guess I am disinterested after we get beyond the species level where we can interbreed.

that's about when it ceases to really matter, IMO

If this is going to diverge into some sort of social commentary that attempts to tie crime rates, intelligence or any of a plethora of other issues into genetics, I am immediately disinterested.

Intelligence varies between the races. That's a simple fact. Inheritability seems to be ~50% when it comes to IQ and the averag IQ between the 3 major races are different, with a great degree of overlap between the races when standard IQ deviations are plotted.

There is zero evidence that race is tied to crime outside of social factors.

 

[JBeukema]

Local News | Race gene does not exist, say scientists | Seattle Times Newspaper

No 'species gene' exists, either.

When you people try to spin the science to fit your racist and political ends, you make a mockery of both yourselves and science.

 

[JBeukema]

Reconciling the reality of race with genetics is only a problem for morons like Bass who cling to outmoded racist concepts and refuse to acknowledge the reality of human variation.

 

[geauxtohell]

Intelligence varies between the races. That's a simple fact. Inheritability seems to be ~50% when it comes to IQ and the averag IQ between the 3 major races are different, with a great degree of overlap between the races when standard IQ deviations are plotted.

There is zero evidence that race is tied to crime outside of social factors.

First, I'd dispute that IQ is a good measure of intelligence for anyone that is two standard deviations above the mean, which as you know, excludes 95% of the test plots. I'd further argue that, medically speaking, it's even relevant except when dealing, for lack of a better term, the mentally retarded.

Second, do you have the link? I'd like to look at the methodology, statistics/confidence intervals, etc.

 

[Bass v 2.0]

Reconciling the reality of race with genetics is only a problem for morons like Bass who cling to outmoded racist concepts and refuse to acknowledge the reality of human variation.

Thats study blasts outdated racist concepts, you believe intelligence is "racial" when its not

 

[Samson]

Eye color is GENETIC.

No shit. What part of the word "phenotype" do you not understand?

No part.

I guess I could have googled "phenotype," but I didn't think you'd be such an asshole since I'm agreeing with you.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Eye color is GENETIC.

No shit. What part of the word "phenotype" do you not understand?

No part.

I guess I could have googled "phenotype," but I didn't think you'd be such an asshole since I'm agreeing with you.

g, pay samantha little attention. she suffers from an overinflated sense of self

 

[geauxtohell]

Eye color is GENETIC.

No shit. What part of the word "phenotype" do you not understand?

No part.

I guess I could have googled "phenotype," but I didn't think you'd be such an asshole since I'm agreeing with you.

I must have misunderstood your post. I apologize. I took the capitalization to be "yelling" at me.

Silly messageboardisms.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Yes, there is. It's called ecotype or, as lines diverge further subspecies

Another common term, used by the ABA, is breed
So you admit that racial difference are genetic?

genetics trigger things. there is NO race gene.

nor is there a 'species gene'


that means there's no such thing as genetic species


per your argument

Just when I thought people here couldn't get more 'unclear' of a concept---you appear.

observing you ignore and deny what you decide doesn't fit antiquated preconceived notions is simply amazing.


---

There is no race gene.

there's no 'eye colou' gene'


nor is there any 'hair colour gene'


you're an idiot

from:

Sunday, February 11, 2001 - Page updated at 12:00 AM

Local News | Race gene does not exist, say scientists | Seattle Times Newspaper

Moreover, science has repeatedly found far more variation within a given racial group than between racial groups.

And the guiding principle of race, skin color, is small and superficial in scientific terms.

Genetic research from the mid-'90s suggests much of our skin color comes from variations of just one of tens of thousands of genes. The gene may be involved in melanin production, leading to variations in the color of human skin and hair.

and that was in 2001. since then we have a better understanding.

http://www.thinkgene.com/there-is-no-such-thing-as-race/

 

[JBeukema]

First, I'd dispute that IQ is a good measure of intelligence

It is a meaure, but not the only measure.

Second, do you have the link? I'd like to look at the methodology, statistics/confidence intervals, etc.

[FONT=Verdana, Trebuchet MS, Arial, sans serif][FONT=Verdana, Trebuchet MS, Arial, sans serif]Race: The Reality of Human Differences
Vincent Sarich and Frank Miele
Westview Press


cites and analyzes a number of studies, as well as other matters
[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[JBeukema]

Local News | Race gene does not exist

Nor does a 'species gene'

What's your point, moron?

 

[JBeukema]

Reconciling the reality of race with genetics is only a problem for morons like Bass who cling to outmoded racist concepts and refuse to acknowledge the reality of human variation.

Thats study blasts outdated racist concepts, you believe intelligence is "racial" when its not

Intelligence varies between the races. That's a simple fact. Inheritability seems to be ~50% when it comes to IQ and the averag IQ between the 3 major races are different, with a great degree of overlap between the races when standard IQ deviations are plotted.

 

[geauxtohell]

First, I'd dispute that IQ is a good measure of intelligence

It is a meaure, but not the only measure.

I think it's a poor measure. One of the best known pathologists in the country, Edward Goljan, likes to crack on how he was tested for his IQ and was "normal".

Basically, the only people that care about it are social services for determining if someone has needs due to being mentally retarded and the dorks at MENSA.

[FONT=Verdana, Trebuchet MS, Arial, sans serif][FONT=Verdana, Trebuchet MS, Arial, sans serif]Race: The Reality of Human Differences
Vincent Sarich and Frank Miele
Westview Press


cites and analyzes a number of studies, as well as other matters
[/FONT][/FONT]

Ugh. Not to be a snob, but I really have a hard time accepting a scientific work that isn't peer reviewed journal work. In fairness, I feel the same way about Dawkins' attempts to dispute the existence of God through evolutionary science. There is a reason his claims are in the non-fiction section of Barnes And Noble and not being considered by the Nobel Committee.

I think this undergrad did the best job of summing up my thoughts on the genetics of intelligence in this article that is otherwise supportive of the book:

Neither the “nature versus nurture” concept, nor the idea that cultural differences can affect IQ test scores, are given adequate weight, particularly when IQ is used as a surrogate for actual intelligence.

In the end, Sarich and Miele admit that race, though it may be a biological reality, is difficult to define. However, such differences: “should not be ignored in the name of racial equality. Individuals are not equal, nor are races. They cannot be. That can sometimes be a problem; far more often, it is an opportunity. But there will be neither an opportunity made available nor results to take advantage of if we cannot accept that we can’t make it come out ‘even’.”

They envision a meritocracy that allows individuals to succeed and excel in their own right, regardless of their race. It’s a utopian vision, but there’s still one thorn. The suggestion that intelligence, behavior, and physical traits are determined by a person’s race is more likely to help perpetuate racism than to end it.

The Berkeley Science Review: Articles

As I said, if I had to stake my claim to any single facet of their methodology to argue against, it would be using IQ to determine intelligence.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Local News | Race gene does not exist

Nor does a 'species gene'

What's your point, moron?

Yes, there is. It's called ecotype or, as lines diverge further subspecies

Another common term, used by the ABA, is breed
So you admit that racial difference are genetic?

genetics trigger things. there is NO race gene.

nor is there a 'species gene'


that means there's no such thing as genetic species


per your argument

Just when I thought people here couldn't get more 'unclear' of a concept---you appear.

observing you ignore and deny what you decide doesn't fit antiquated preconceived notions is simply amazing.


---

There is no race gene.

there's no 'eye colou' gene'


nor is there any 'hair colour gene'


you're an idiot

from:

Sunday, February 11, 2001 - Page updated at 12:00 AM

Local News | Race gene does not exist, say scientists | Seattle Times Newspaper

Moreover, science has repeatedly found far more variation within a given racial group than between racial groups.

And the guiding principle of race, skin color, is small and superficial in scientific terms.

Genetic research from the mid-'90s suggests much of our skin color comes from variations of just one of tens of thousands of genes. The gene may be involved in melanin production, leading to variations in the color of human skin and hair.

and that was in 2001. since then we have a better understanding.

There Is No Such Thing As Race | Think Gene