Billy Corgan wants broadcast radio to pay performers

[Cecilie1200]

Someone should tell this whining dimwit that those radio stations are doing him a favor by essentially providing advertisement for his piece-of-crap CDs so that people with no musical taste will hear the song on the radio and run out and buy the damned thing. If anyone should be paying anyone, HE should be paying the radio stations for the time they're spending drumming up business for him.

 

[catzmeow]

Someone should tell this whining dimwit that those radio stations are doing him a favor by essentially providing advertisement for his piece-of-crap CDs so that people with no musical taste will hear the song on the radio and run out and buy the damned thing. If anyone should be paying anyone, HE should be paying the radio stations for the time they're spending drumming up business for him.

Interestingly enough, the band Creed sold millions of copies of their first album with almost no radio airplay at all. The role of radio stations has drastically changed.

But you should also realize that without the music, the radio stations have no product to sell.

 

[Shogun]

Someone should tell this whining dimwit that those radio stations are doing him a favor by essentially providing advertisement for his piece-of-crap CDs so that people with no musical taste will hear the song on the radio and run out and buy the damned thing. If anyone should be paying anyone, HE should be paying the radio stations for the time they're spending drumming up business for him.

Radio doesn't have a "right" to play anyone's music. And, if you can fathom terrestrial radio as nothing more than free advertising of music then you should not have a problem with Net radio being as free from artist payments as terrestrial radio enjoys.


And, like I said.. I DARE radio to charge musicians. Like I said, bumpers and jingles don't sell add space.

 

[Shogun]

Someone should tell this whining dimwit that those radio stations are doing him a favor by essentially providing advertisement for his piece-of-crap CDs so that people with no musical taste will hear the song on the radio and run out and buy the damned thing. If anyone should be paying anyone, HE should be paying the radio stations for the time they're spending drumming up business for him.

Interestingly enough, the band Creed sold millions of copies of their first album with almost no radio airplay at all. The role of radio stations has drastically changed.

But you should also realize that without the music, the radio stations have no product to sell.

Indeed, no product at all. And, if I may make an observation, if the best radio can do is Nickleback and the candyteen pop star of the week then whootyfuckingdoo.

 

[Peejay]

Shogun, I don't care one way or the other about Billy. It's not personal against him, but personal for me. I write songs for a living. If you think radio is getting a free a product, you don't know what you're saying. THEY PAY. The only thing Billy is asking for is to be paid for material that he does not own. He already gets paid for that material from record sales, performance and merchandise. He wants more. It's bullshit greed. His own work doesn't sell anymore but radio still plays the old stuff that he didn't write so he wants money for that. The interesting thing is that you certainly understand the concept:

Again, if you want to avoid examples of artists taking original songs and making them their own then so be it.

You see, you don't get to take what is mine and "make it your own". That would be stealing.

 

[Shogun]

Shogun, I don't care one way or the other about Billy. It's not personal against him, but personal for me. I write songs for a living. If you think radio is getting a free a product, you don't know what you're saying. THEY PAY. The only thing Billy is asking for is to be paid for material that he does not own. He already gets paid for that material from record sales, performance and merchandise. He wants more. It's bullshit greed. His own work doesn't sell anymore but radio still plays the old stuff that he didn't write so he wants money for that. The interesting thing is that you certainly understand the concept:

Again, if you want to avoid examples of artists taking original songs and making them their own then so be it.

You see, you don't get to take what is mine and "make it your own". That would be stealing.

yea, they pay a publisher but they don't pay th
e artist. This seems to be why you keep avoiding the two specific examples that makes my point: jimi hendrix and Dylan, Patsy and Willie.

and yes, he wants to be paid for terrestrial radio using his PERFORMANCE just like net radio has to. Why are you avoiding the net radio aspect of this? Is it for the same reason you seem to be avoiding the significance of Jimi's version of All Along The Watchtower? Your opinon of what is his motivation is noted and sumarily disregarded.


and, if you think what Hendrix did with a Dylan tune is stealing.. well.. clearly you need to dive a little deeper into this than just claiming to be a songwriter as if your experience is the sole criteria that matters. Here, let me help you out.


Dylan has described his reaction to hearing Hendrix's version: "It overwhelmed me, really. He had such talent, he could find things inside a song and vigorously develop them. He found things that other people wouldn't think of finding in there. He probably improved upon it by the spaces he was using. I took license with the song from his version, actually, and continue to do it to this day."

In the booklet accompanying his Biograph album, Dylan said: "I liked Jimi Hendrix's record of this and ever since he died I've been doing it that way... Strange how when I sing it, I always feel it's a tribute to him in some kind of way."

This version of the song appears at number 48 on Rolling Stone's list of the 500 greatest songs ever, and in 2000, British magazine Total Guitar named it top of the list of the greatest cover versions ever.[15]

All Along the Watchtower - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Peejay]

The Indigo Girls did "All Along ther Watchtower" also. How much do you think they should get ? I perform that song too. The clubs I play for pay BMI, ASCAP and SESAC. Now you think I should get a cut too ? For my performance of the song ? Or is it just your particular favorites who get to demand a cut for performing someone else's song ? Because if you're for this thing, then every Dick out there get's to demand the same as Billy.

I don't think you understand what this precedent would mean.

 

[Shogun]

The Indigo Girls did "All Along ther Watchtower" also. How much do you think they should get ? I perform that song too. The clubs I play for pay BMI, ASCAP and SESAC. Now you think I should get a cut too ? For my performance of the song ? Or is it just your particular favorites who get to demand a cut for performing someone else's song ? Because if you're for this thing, then every Dick out there get's to demand the same as Billy.

I don't think you understand what this precedent would mean.

if your version of the song became the bread and butter of radio airplay then yes both you, as an artist, and the original songwriter should be paid.


I suggest you take your opinion to Bob Dylan. He probably has a wee bit more insight than you.

I think you are crying about the sky falling because you don't want to admit that even Bob Dyalan wrote songs after being covered by Hendrix.

 

[Peejay]

if your version of the song became the bread and butter of radio airplay then yes both you, as an artist, and the original songwriter should be paid.

Now we're getting somewhere.

So, not everyone who performs the song gets paid, just the "bread and butter" tunes. Can you now reveal the perfect formula for determining how many plays, how wide a distribution is required before we reach the threshold of "bread and butter" ? How do we make it so that Jimmi get's paid for plays of "All Along the Watch Tower" but the Indigo Girls don't ? Angie Apairo is known for his version of "Rocket Man" but he's not a big time mega star so I suppose he doesn't get anything for his "bread and butter" song, because you don't know him ?

Please, tell us who gets to collect and who doesn't. I suspect you want this to be a popularity contest.

 

[catzmeow]

Indeed, no product at all. And, if I may make an observation, if the best radio can do is Nickleback and the candyteen pop star of the week then whootyfuckingdoo.

There's a good reason that I mostly burn my own CDs and don't listen to the radio at all.

 

[Peejay]

And Shogun, please direct us to where Bob Dylan has said anything at all about this issue ? I can't seem to find where he has voiced an opinion on the performance rights act.

 

[catzmeow]

So, not everyone who performs the song gets paid, just the "bread and butter" tunes. Can you now reveal the perfect formula for determining how many plays, how wide a distribution is required before we reach the threshold of "bread and butter" ? How do we make it so that Jimmi get's paid for plays of "All Along the Watch Tower" but the Indigo Girls don't ? Angie Apairo is known for his version of "Rocket Man" but he's not a big time mega star so I suppose he doesn't get anything for his "bread and butter" song, because you don't know him ?

Please, tell us who gets to collect and who doesn't. I suspect you want this to be a popularity contest.

It's a free market. Those who get played, get paid. Thus, when Billy Corgan does an awesome cover of Landslide (written by Stevie Nicks), and it gets played, he should get paid. And, so should Stevie.

 

[Peejay]

So, not everyone who performs the song gets paid, just the "bread and butter" tunes. Can you now reveal the perfect formula for determining how many plays, how wide a distribution is required before we reach the threshold of "bread and butter" ? How do we make it so that Jimmi get's paid for plays of "All Along the Watch Tower" but the Indigo Girls don't ? Angie Apairo is known for his version of "Rocket Man" but he's not a big time mega star so I suppose he doesn't get anything for his "bread and butter" song, because you don't know him ?

Please, tell us who gets to collect and who doesn't. I suspect you want this to be a popularity contest.

It's a free market. Those who get played, get paid. Thus, when Billy Corgan does an awesome cover of Landslide (written by Stevie Nicks), and it gets played, he should get paid. And, so should Stevie.

What about her guitarist ? And drummer ? And bass player ? They are performing the song as well. How many people are we ready to let into the royalty pool ? This thing is going deeper than you recognize.

 

[catzmeow]

What about her guitarist ? And drummer ? And bass player ? They are performing the song as well. How many people are we ready to let into the royalty pool ? This thing is going deeper than you recognize.

You are making this unnecessarily complicated. When a band or solo artist covers a song, they get paid online without such difficulties.

And, why would Stevie's guitarist get paid for someone else performing a song she wrote?

 

[Shogun]

And Shogun, please direct us to where Bob Dylan has said anything at all about this issue ? I can't seem to find where he has voiced an opinion on the performance rights act.

I quoted for you his reaction to Jimi Hendrix taking his song and making it altogether something new. And he still wrote music afterward.. imagine that. However, I didn't quote Bob saying that he supported the PRA. Are you sniffing for a straw man?

do you really think Bob Dylan thought that only Bob Dylan should be paid for Jimi's work on a Bob Dylan tune after reading that quote?

here, enjoy some of your, uh, colleagues' opinions about it.

musicFIRST Coalition

 

[Shogun]

if your version of the song became the bread and butter of radio airplay then yes both you, as an artist, and the original songwriter should be paid.

Now we're getting somewhere.

So, not everyone who performs the song gets paid, just the "bread and butter" tunes. Can you now reveal the perfect formula for determining how many plays, how wide a distribution is required before we reach the threshold of "bread and butter" ? How do we make it so that Jimmi get's paid for plays of "All Along the Watch Tower" but the Indigo Girls don't ? Angie Apairo is known for his version of "Rocket Man" but he's not a big time mega star so I suppose he doesn't get anything for his "bread and butter" song, because you don't know him ?

Please, tell us who gets to collect and who doesn't. I suspect you want this to be a popularity contest.

uh, what? Yes, if the radio plays your cover of someone elses song then you get paid. It really is pretty simply. Why, you ask? BECAUSE THAT IS HOW THE FUCKING NET RADIO WORKS RIGHT THIS VERY MOMENT. sheesh.

If Jack's college town band covers Dylan and IT DOESNT GET RADIO AIR then I guess they don't get paid, eh? But, if their rendition of the song DOES get airtime.. and then goes on to become a smash hit.. then yes, radio should be as obligated to pay artists as net radio is.


When indigo girls gets the kind of air play JIMI fucking HENDRIX did with his version then you might have a point. HELLO! JIMI "Now Dylan plays the song MY WAY because it was so goddamn good" Hendrix?

Who the fuck is Angie Apiero? Clearly no one who gets nary the radio space as, again, JIMI "more people probably think I wrote this" HENDRIX? sheesh... Now you are just being silly.


I suspect you are throwing out all these goofy straw man arguments because you can't defend the idea that net radio pays while terrestrial radio doesn't. Hell, if you can't fathom how a song by Jimi that is played a million times a year should be paid when no one but fucking indigo girl fans know they covered the goddamn song won't get radio play enough to count then I don't know what to tell you. Let the girls get paid if radio plays their version... but you tell ME which is popular.


and, ps... no shit it's a popularity contest. That is the nature of the fucking music business. What, did you think the masses are forced to like your music? good fucking grief.

 

[Peejay]

I don't see Bob Dylan on the list from that link. Quoting Dylan giving props to Jimmi for his rendition of the song is not the same as Dylan saying that Jimmi should get a chunk of his Royalties.

This is called the "Performance" Rights Act, but we are actually just compensating singers ? But what about the back up singers......shit.....more singers.....how about the guitar player performing the song ? The drummer ? How about me ? If you're giving Billy perfromance revenue then I can get it too ? Or is the reality that this is not a bill for "performers" ? It's actually a bill for washed up, has been pop stars that want a check for a studio session twenty years ago when they did someone else's song. And if they get paid, the drummer will to be paid too. And the guitarist. And the sound man. And the bass player. They can all claim the same creative ownership as the front man who only played oner part in the perfromance of the song.....but he's not advocating his musicians who he knows, better than anyone, performed just the same as he did on that cut.

I've heard these whiners for years. Mostly from band members and studio players that never get any rights to their performance even though it is as much a part of the product as any. If you let the cry baby, washed up pop stars have it, there will be a line of performers 50 miles long waiting to claim their performance residuals. It is the "Performance" Rights Act ? So we're talking performers ? Or are we really pushing the "Front Man" rights act ?

 

[Peejay]

Shogun, you don't know jack about how this works.

And just as I suspect, you don't care about Angie Apairo just because you don't know him. Faith Hill won a fucking Grammy for singing his song. Think she made any money ? How much more do you think she should get ? Think Angie should get anything at all ? After she gets the Grammy, the Fame and the money from the record and tour, you think she should continue to take a share of Angie's royalties forever ?

If Jack's college town band covers Dylan and IT DOESNT GET RADIO AIR then I guess they don't get paid, eh? But, if their rendition of the song DOES get airtime.. and then goes on to become a smash hit.. then yes, radio should be as obligated to pay artists as net radio is

Un huh.......And when BMI charges the local bar for the right to have Jacks Band it's OK for BMI to give that money to Grth Brooks ? You don't know what you're talking about. Internet Radio is the EXCEPTION.

 

[Shogun]

I don't see Bob Dylan on the list from that link. Quoting Dylan giving props to Jimmi for his rendition of the song is not the same as Dylan saying that Jimmi should get a chunk of his Royalties.

This is called the "Performance" Rights Act, but we are actually just compensating singers ? But what about the back up singers......shit.....more singers.....how about the guitar player performing the song ? The drummer ? How about me ? If you're giving Billy perfromance revenue then I can get it too ? Or is the reality that this is not a bill for "performers" ? It's actually a bill for washed up, has been pop stars that want a check for a studio session twenty years ago when they did someone else's song. And if they get paid, the drummer will to be paid too. And the guitarist. And the sound man. And the bass player. They can all claim the same creative ownership as the front man who only played oner part in the perfromance of the song.....but he's not advocating his musicians who he knows, better than anyone, performed just the same as he did on that cut.

I've heard these whiners for years. Mostly from band members and studio players that never get any rights to their performance even though it is as much a part of the product as any. If you let the cry baby, washed up pop stars have it, there will be a line of performers 50 miles long waiting to claim their performance residuals. It is the "Performance" Rights Act ? So we're talking performers ? Or are we really pushing the "Front Man" rights act ?

Who said anything about compensating just singers? Looking for another laughable straw man? By all means.. quote where either I, or anyone else, has suggested such a thing. Again, why do you keep avoiding the FACT of the discrepancy with how net radio must pay while terrestrial radio doesn't?


Like I said.. this isn't hard. If Jimi Hendrix covers Dylan and creates a monster hit that GETS MORE AIRPLAY THAN THE ORIGINAL then Jimi, and the artists who recorded the fucking tracks, get paid. simple.


sheesh..

 

[catzmeow]

Internet Radio is the EXCEPTION.

You don't get that Shogun wants to see this exception eliminated? Terrestrial radio will NEVER pay to play music. So, by pushing this issue, the artists are working to remove this stipulation from internet radio.

It isn't about artists being compensated, it is about leveling the playing field and opening up new ways to promote an artist's music.

Jesus Christ.