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Doesn't matter. The point is the national currency shouldn't be brought into being as debt with interest when it doesn't have to be.
When banks buy currency from the Fed, the Fed reduces the balance in their account at the Fed. No debt involved. No interest involved.
When I buy currency from my bank, the same thing happens. No debt and no interest.
Get that? All you need is a deposit with an FRB. If you had $110,000,000 lying around and decided to start a bank, you could take the $10,000,000 and build a few dozen branches, and put the $100,000,000 in an FRB and start making loans.
In that case, you could loan out your entire $100 million in reserves.
Oh yeah, and at 10% reserve, that's loans adding up to $1 billion. No deposits required.
Wrong, you only need to reserve a portion of your deposits, you have none.
Of course if you loan more than $100 million, your checks will bounce.
Nope, sorry, you're wrong.
My witness?
eCFR ? Code of Federal Regulations
The pertinent section of the code:
(a)(1) A depository institution, a U.S. branch or agency of a foreign bank, and an Edge or Agreement corporation shall satisfy reserve requirements by maintaining vault cash and, if vault cash does not fully satisfy the institution's reserve requirement, in the form of a balance maintained
(i) In the institution's account at the Federal Reserve Bank in the Federal Reserve District in which the institution is located, or
If you keep $1,000,000 in the FRB, that becomes your reserve, and you can loan out $10,000,000 since 10% of $10,000,000 = $1,000,000, which you have as in your FRB account.
So you want to retract that silly statement about getting arrested for it?
If you loan $1 billion with only $100 million at the Fed, you will also be arrested.
Nope, but you probably should be. You see, you're applying traits like honesty to a system that's fundamentally a scam. I understand your confusion, most normal people wouldn't even think of a scam like the fractional reserve banking system.
Doesn't matter. The point is the national currency shouldn't be brought into being as debt with interest when it doesn't have to be.
When banks buy currency from the Fed, the Fed reduces the balance in their account at the Fed. No debt involved. No interest involved.
When I buy currency from my bank, the same thing happens. No debt and no interest.
Sorry, I missed these posts.
However, concentrating on currency is misleading. Currency is only about 3-5% of the money supply. Not to mention that currency (in our money system) only represents what the Federal Reserve owes you. And wouldn't you know it, the value of that currency is constantly being debased by the Fed issuing more and more bank debt.
Nope, sorry, just a guy who understands banking and economics much better than you.
You sound like a Commie. Kill the greedy kulaks, eh comrade?
Thanks for avoiding all my questions, by the way.
Doesn't matter. The point is the national currency shouldn't be brought into being as debt with interest when it doesn't have to be.
When banks buy currency from the Fed, the Fed reduces the balance in their account at the Fed. No debt involved. No interest involved.
When I buy currency from my bank, the same thing happens. No debt and no interest.
Sorry, I missed these posts.
However, concentrating on currency is misleading. Currency is only about 3-5% of the money supply. Not to mention that currency (in our money system) only represents what the Federal Reserve owes you. And wouldn't you know it, the value of that currency is constantly being debased by the Fed issuing more and more bank debt.
If you keep $1,000,000 in the FRB, that becomes your reserve, and you can loan out $10,000,000 since 10% of $10,000,000 = $1,000,000, which you have as in your FRB account.
You are mistaken. You can't loan more than you take in.
If you have $10,000,000 in deposits, you can loan $9,000,000 if you reserve $1,000,000.
You can't put $1,000,000 in reserves, with no deposits, and magically loan out $9,000,000.
The fact that you think this really points out your ignorance of how banking (and math) works.
If you keep $1,000,000 in the FRB, that becomes your reserve, and you can loan out $10,000,000 since 10% of $10,000,000 = $1,000,000, which you have as in your FRB account.
You are mistaken. You can't loan more than you take in.
If you have $10,000,000 in deposits, you can loan $9,000,000 if you reserve $1,000,000.
You can't put $1,000,000 in reserves, with no deposits, and magically loan out $9,000,000.
The fact that you think this really points out your ignorance of how banking (and math) works.
Above I quoted the US Code on the Federal Reserve Act's Regulation D, which dictates the rules as to what are considered 'reserves' for the purpose of making loans. In clear language, it says banks must either keep enough vault cash to meet the reserve requirements, OR in deposits at an FRB. BOTH function as reserves.
So that means if a bank wants to take $1000 of retained earnings and put it in their FRB account, it becomes reserve against which they can loan $10,000. Just the same way as if someone deposited $11,000 and the bank loaned out $10,000 keeping the $1000 in reserve to cover the remote possibility that some people might want some cash once in a while.
So please feel free to post something to back up your hand-waving.
Hand-waving
Also written handwaving. In formal conversation / speech omitting important details about the subject matter either because 1) the audience is perceived to be ignorant 2) the speaker themselves is not well-informed on the subject matter
However, concentrating on currency is misleading. Currency is only about 3-5% of the money supply. Not to mention that currency (in our money system) only represents what the Federal Reserve owes you. And wouldn't you know it, the value of that currency is constantly being debased by the Fed issuing more and more bank debt.
A depository institution, a U.S. branch or agency of a foreign bank, and an Edge or Agreement corporation shall satisfy reserve requirements by maintaining vault cash and, if vault cash does not fully satisfy the institution's reserve requirement, in the form of a balance maintained
Run your silly scenarios only using currency, vault cash, and you'll more easily see your errors.
Paper bills and metal coins kept in bank vaults or elsewhere in banks (such as teller drawers). Vault cash is used, quite literally, to "cash" checks and otherwise to satisfy currency withdrawal demands of the depositors. Because vault cash is in the possession of banks and not the nonbank public, it is not considered as "money in circulation" and is not part of the official M1 money supply. Vault cash is one of two types of bank assets that are considered reserves and used to satisfy reserve requirements. The other is Federal Reserve deposits.
Try again.....you have $1,000,000 in reserves (vault cash) with no deposits.
Please tell me how much you can loan out. Show all your work.
Let me know if the math is too difficult, I'll be happy to help.
However, concentrating on currency is misleading. Currency is only about 3-5% of the money supply. Not to mention that currency (in our money system) only represents what the Federal Reserve owes you. And wouldn't you know it, the value of that currency is constantly being debased by the Fed issuing more and more bank debt.
A depository institution, a U.S. branch or agency of a foreign bank, and an Edge or Agreement corporation shall satisfy reserve requirements by maintaining vault cash and, if vault cash does not fully satisfy the institution's reserve requirement, in the form of a balance maintained
Run your silly scenarios only using currency, vault cash, and you'll more easily see your errors.
Why bother? By the way, vault cash is not currency. It's reserves.
AmosWEB is Economics: Encyclonomic WEB*pedia
Paper bills and metal coins kept in bank vaults or elsewhere in banks (such as teller drawers). Vault cash is used, quite literally, to "cash" checks and otherwise to satisfy currency withdrawal demands of the depositors. Because vault cash is in the possession of banks and not the nonbank public, it is not considered as "money in circulation" and is not part of the official M1 money supply. Vault cash is one of two types of bank assets that are considered reserves and used to satisfy reserve requirements. The other is Federal Reserve deposits.
Try again.....you have $1,000,000 in reserves (vault cash) with no deposits.
Please tell me how much you can loan out. Show all your work.
Let me know if the math is too difficult, I'll be happy to help.
Dope, if you have a million in vault cash, that means you've already lent out $9,000,000 and that $1 mill is retained as reserves against the $10,000,000 in deposits you took. What you seem to miss is that another $1,000,000 from retained earnings or additional capital, once deposited in an FRB account, becomes reserves against which you can loan out another $10,000,000.
Cause you see, banks really don't loan out deposits. They take the note from a borrower and since it generates income, they put it on the balance sheet as an asset. Then they write the loan amount into the account of the borrower and classify it as a liability, since they will have to pay it out at some point(maybe, most of the time they only have to pay a small portion of it to another bank).
One of these days you'll learn.
Yes, reserves allow you to make loans. If you get deposits enough to cover the loans.
Unlike your claim.
Try again?
Yes, reserves allow you to make loans. If you get deposits enough to cover the loans.
Unlike your claim.
Try again?
A link would be appropriate here, so I don't think this is just your uninformed personal opinion.
At least try once...
However, concentrating on currency is misleading. Currency is only about 3-5% of the money supply. Not to mention that currency (in our money system) only represents what the Federal Reserve owes you. And wouldn't you know it, the value of that currency is constantly being debased by the Fed issuing more and more bank debt.
A depository institution, a U.S. branch or agency of a foreign bank, and an Edge or Agreement corporation shall satisfy reserve requirements by maintaining vault cash and, if vault cash does not fully satisfy the institution's reserve requirement, in the form of a balance maintained
Run your silly scenarios only using currency, vault cash, and you'll more easily see your errors.
Why bother? By the way, vault cash is not currency. It's reserves.
AmosWEB is Economics: Encyclonomic WEB*pedia
Paper bills and metal coins kept in bank vaults or elsewhere in banks (such as teller drawers). Vault cash is used, quite literally, to "cash" checks and otherwise to satisfy currency withdrawal demands of the depositors. Because vault cash is in the possession of banks and not the nonbank public, it is not considered as "money in circulation" and is not part of the official M1 money supply. Vault cash is one of two types of bank assets that are considered reserves and used to satisfy reserve requirements. The other is Federal Reserve deposits.
Try again.....you have $1,000,000 in reserves (vault cash) with no deposits.
Please tell me how much you can loan out. Show all your work.
Let me know if the math is too difficult, I'll be happy to help.
Dope, if you have a million in vault cash, that means you've already lent out $9,000,000 and that $1 mill is retained as reserves against the $10,000,000 in deposits you took. What you seem to miss is that another $1,000,000 from retained earnings or additional capital, once deposited in an FRB account, becomes reserves against which you can loan out another $10,000,000.
Cause you see, banks really don't loan out deposits. They take the note from a borrower and since it generates income, they put it on the balance sheet as an asset. Then they write the loan amount into the account of the borrower and classify it as a liability, since they will have to pay it out at some point(maybe, most of the time they only have to pay a small portion of it to another bank).
One of these days you'll learn.
Congress is supposed to oversee the Fed. They can't properly oversee the body they created if they don't have access to the most important information.
This is why the Fed is referred to as not being federal. They operate independently and with VERY little oversight, and they hide behind the excuse that their monetary policy would be compromised if certain information was made public.
Fuck that. The congress and the people have every right to know what is being done with their money.
Anyway, if you ask me, just get rid of the whole LoLR thing. Or if people insist that it exist, have the Treasury do it instead of the Fed.
If banks were engaged in an honest business instead of fraud, they wouldn't need a "lender of last resort".
Some of these "broken banks" attempted to fool bank inspectors by keeping a barrel of nails with a top layer of gold coin as their "reserves." The Bank of Battle Creek, Michigan, had its teller, Tolman W. Hall, run out the back door whenever a noteholder would enter the bank. Another unscrupulous tactic was to locate banks' main offices in remote wilderness areas. These "wildcat banks" would often shuttle the same sack of coins from one location to another to convince the occasional bank inspector that the bank was solvent.
That's from the Fed bank of San Francisco. I can't post the link cause I'm too much of a newbie yet, but the Fed is the modern day barrel of nails, and they don't even have a layer of gold coins on top.
The whole fractional reserve banking system is a fraud and must go.
One of my favorite quotes: "The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later is the people versus the banks." - Lord Acton
And the banks are winning cause the people don't even know they're in a battle.
I have watched Bill Still's Money Masters and the Secret of Oz and I think they are both very well done. Though I am not a economist, I think his solutions to solve our debit money system seems logical.
Here is his 3.5 hour documentary of Money Masters.
The Money Masters ~ Full Movie - YouTube
I would love to hear your thoughts on his solution to our monetary system.
Why bother? By the way, vault cash is not currency. It's reserves.
By the way, vault cash is currency, what else would it be, silly?
Your own source says, "Vault cash is the money or currency (paper bills and metal coins) in the possession of banks".
Why bother? By the way, vault cash is not currency. It's reserves.
By the way, vault cash is currency, what else would it be, silly?
Your own source says, "Vault cash is the money or currency (paper bills and metal coins) in the possession of banks".
It's non-circulating, not counted as part of the money supply. As the link I quoted above indicates.
You must have nothing relevant to say, since you're concentrating on currency, which is gradually disappearing from the money system anyway.
Why is it disappearing? Because the banks don't really want to deal with cash, they'd rather have every transaction done electronically. It's way more profitable that way (for them). In a cash transaction, the banks don't see a dime, in a credit, ATM, ACH or check transaction, the banks always take their cut, but isn't that what leeches do?
It's non-circulating,
Of course it's not circulating, it's sitting in the vault.
not counted as part of the money supply.
It's not double counted.
When the customer deposits it, the deposit counts as money supply.
You must have nothing relevant to say, since you're concentrating on currency,
I'm concentrating on currency, because that is easier to understand for a simpleton like you.
Easier for you to realize your errors. Not easy enough.
I'll keep trying to educate you, though I am starting to lose hope.
It's non-circulating,
Of course it's not circulating, it's sitting in the vault.
not counted as part of the money supply.
It's not double counted.
When the customer deposits it, the deposit counts as money supply.
Oh good, I'm glad you pointed that out. That bookkeeping entry in the bank's ledger is the actual money supply, the cash in the vault isn't.
Doesn't that say something to you? Doesn't that shout out that our 'money' is just what a bank owes you? Ninety-five percent (95%) of our money supply is in the form of bank deposits. Bookkeeping entires. Nothing more or less. In case you didn't know, you don't have "money in the bank", you have an 'account' which simply means the bank owes you that amount. That bank does not have the money, that's why they invented the FDIC. Which of course, is chronically underfunded and of course, comes to the taxpayers to make up the difference.
And if too much crap has impacted the ventilating device, they run to the Feds for bailouts. Nice work if you can get it.
You must have nothing relevant to say, since you're concentrating on currency,
I'm concentrating on currency, because that is easier to understand for a simpleton like you.
Easier for you to realize your errors. Not easy enough.
I'll keep trying to educate you, though I am starting to lose hope.
What hope? Hope that I buy into the approved 'wisdom' of the banks, government and mass media? Hope that I moo along with you to the slaughterhouse?
Don't hold your breath.
Actually, I think you're concentrating on currency because that's all you can understand. It seems to me that the concept that the banking system can turn $100 of honestly earned labor into $1000, collecting interest at each step is beyond your understanding, because I think the the fact that bankers can create money and earn interest from the privilege would piss off most normal people who understand the system. Not to mention, but the act of creating the money also devalues the labor put into earning the initial $100, because those extra $900 were created without any productive labor, which is inflationary.
Not that I expect an answer to any of my points, but maybe you'll stop your fascination on cash.
Maybe you don't care what Edison said, but I think most people wouldn't really like that fact that bankers collected more money for the project than the workers who built it. I'm not really sure that people aren't all that pleased about having to pay more interest than the price of their house on their mortgage.
Just keep on believin', Toddster. And not surprisingly, I hate that song.
