Bill of Rights...from scratch

[Missourian]

I got one, just say this:

All humans must be treated equally under any law written and upheld by a state or regional government within the United States of America.

Even minors?

 

[Yurt]

Everyone is guaranteed to any right that does not infringe on another's.

that is an impossibility.

 

[Ravi]

Everyone is guaranteed to any right that does not infringe on another's.

that is an impossibility.

Why?

 

[strollingbones]

why is every other article in the nra magazine about how obama is gonna take your guns....damn gun dealers are making a killing and ammo is suddenly hard to get....its all a plot by obama and the democrats......when they get some friggin balance i will join

 

[Yurt]

Everyone is guaranteed to any right that does not infringe on another's.

that is an impossibility.

Why?

we must determine what are rights. are those rights individual, collective....

do you have a right to own property? airspace? talk loudly on your cell phone?

most rights you think you may have, necessarily infringe on some right someone else thinks they might have.

 

[RodISHI]

so who provides all that...sounds like communism

Socialism
Fascism

The ism's is why everyone should watch the ISM cartoon from fifty years ago.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WB6p5QPVhPI[/ame]

 

[midcan5]

The ism's is why everyone should watch the ISM cartoon from fifty years ago.

That reminded me of what the voters have done to the GOP, throw them outta town!

"Freedom" though is simply an abstraction, out of real context it is same as any ism or other meaningfulness slogan.

FDR's words from the above URL take into account reality, not the abstract ideas that failed this country these past 20 years. Pragmatism is key not worship of vague concepts that failed.


"It is our duty now to begin to lay the plans and determine the strategy for the winning of a lasting peace and the establishment of an American standard of living higher than ever before known. We cannot be content, no matter how high that general standard of living may be, if some fraction of our people—whether it be one-third or one-fifth or one-tenth—is ill-fed, ill-clothed, ill-housed, and insecure.

This Republic had its beginning, and grew to its present strength, under the protection of certain inalienable political rights—among them the right of free speech, free press, free worship, trial by jury, freedom from unreasonable searches and seizures. They were our rights to life and liberty.

As our nation has grown in size and stature, however—as our industrial economy expanded—these political rights proved inadequate to assure us equality in the pursuit of happiness.

We have come to a clear realization of the fact that true individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. “Necessitous men are not free men.” People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.

In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed."

 

[strollingbones]

security is all people want...housing..a job...medical that wouldnt bankrupt them...good educations for their kids...but as the "greatest country in the world" we cannot provide this?

 

[editec]

IU'd definitely seek to clearly spell out the rights of gun owers.

The way it's written now is clear as mud.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Our greatest president, Franklin D. Roosevelt, already wrote what I can hardly improve on. And out of these economic rights, as I have noted in another thread, grow all the things we most admire and keep us safe. You could tack on the "Golden Rule" for good measure, a universal rule but like all rules....


"The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

The right of every family to a decent home;

The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

The right to a good education."


"All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

America’s own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for our citizens."

Franklin D. Roosevelt: "The Economic Bill of Rights"

Being me does not give me the 'right' to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation; Being American affords me many opportunities for employment. If we choose our rules carefully, I have the man-made right to a fair marketplace.

Being me does not give me the 'right' to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation; Being American affords me many choices and opportunities for earning a living. If we choose our rules carefully, I have the man-made right to a fair and transparent marketplace.

Being me does not give me the 'right' to raise and sell products at a return which will give me and my family a decent living; Being American affords me the opportunity to use my land as I see fit and pray for the right combination of planning, rain and sunshine to profit from my labor. If we choose our rules carefully, I have the man-made right to a fair and open marketplace to buy my supplies as well as to sell my produce.

If we choose our rules carefully, I have the man-made right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

Being me does not give me or my family the 'right' to a decent home; Being American affords me opportunity and choices to make a home of my choosing that is within my means. If we choose our rules carefully, I have the man-made right to fair, transparent and well labeled markets to buy and / or build a home within.

Being me does not give me the 'right' to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health; Being American does not mean you are guaranteed service from any industry, including healthcare. Being American affords me the opportunity to succeed or fail in my own health management. If we choose our rules carefully, I have the man-made right to an open and transparent healthcare marketplace. If we choose our rules carefully, I have the man-made right to pay the healthcare industry directly for care received, without being penalized for not using insurance. Being American affords me the opportunity to help others who may have been born unlucky in health matters.

Being me does not give me the 'right' to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment; Being American affords me the opportunity to participate in various pools of insurance funds against losses, not the least of which is Social Security, mandated because enough of us, at one point in time, agreed that it should be.

Being me does not give me the 'right' to a good education. Being American affords me opportunities for education. If America wants to remain a place of many opportunities, America must choose to provide more opportunities for education than will be taken advantage of, and provide planning for education on a regional basis.

There are no 'rights', only choices and consequences. Life is not fair... it sucks but we, as a species, will reach the stars sooner that way.

Can we relax and make the most of life while following the golden rules? (Notice that there are no golden rights in this life)

-Joe

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Let's assume for purposes of this discussion that we were going to revisit the Bill of Rights in order to rectify the ambiguity and variability of interpretations that have been caused by the passage of time.

If we were starting with a clean sheet of paper and laying out a set of individual rights, as plainly and clearly as possible, what should be included?

Such a discussion can't be had without first understanding what Human Rights are... the authority on which they rest which makes them valid; and the responsibilities inherent in then, which make them sustainable.

The OP sets up the BO'Rs as if such were a wish list of 'rights'... which is the thesis of the secular left: Rights are a function of the social contract, etc... we'll right them down and that means everyone has them...

When the Bill Of Rights was NOT intended to convey rights to anyone... Period. they were merely enumerations of rights which the founders recognized as pre-existing the bill and merely sought to provide protections for the indivdual to exercise them without interference from the Federal government.

The fact is the Human Rights are a function of the endowment born of Creation; they rest on the authority of the Creator and are sustained by the inherent responsibility of each INDIVIDUAL to not exercise THEIR respective rights to the detriment of another's rights... AND to defend their NEIGHBORS rights... thus defending their own, in the process.

The only human right that exist, is the right to one's life; which comes with the right to pursue the fulfillment of that life... and the responsibility to not infringe or usurp your neighbor's right to pursue their own life and the fullfillment of that life.

If everyone tends to that right and the inherent responsibilities... it all works itself out.

One of the key points of debate, as the Bill was coming to fruition was that future generation would misinterpret the Bill to represent "THE list of rights... which the Constitution provided... and thus erroneously conclude that the Government was the source of rights... which is precisely what has happened.

And that is NOT a good thing... its>>> BAD! Very, very... bad.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

The ism's is why everyone should watch the ISM cartoon from fifty years ago.

That reminded me of what the voters have done to the GOP, throw them outta town!

"Freedom" though is simply an abstraction, out of real context it is same as any ism or other meaningfulness slogan.

FDR's words from the above URL take into account reality, not the abstract ideas that failed this country these past 20 years. Pragmatism is key not worship of vague concepts that failed.


"It is our duty now to begin to lay the plans and determine the strategy for the winning of a lasting peace and the establishment of an American standard of living higher than ever before known. We cannot be content, no matter how high that general standard of living may be, if some fraction of our people—whether it be one-third or one-fifth or one-tenth—is ill-fed, ill-clothed, ill-housed, and insecure.

This Republic had its beginning, and grew to its present strength, under the protection of certain inalienable political rights—among them the right of free speech, free press, free worship, trial by jury, freedom from unreasonable searches and seizures. They were our rights to life and liberty.

As our nation has grown in size and stature, however—as our industrial economy expanded—these political rights proved inadequate to assure us equality in the pursuit of happiness.

We have come to a clear realization of the fact that true individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. “Necessitous men are not free men.” People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.

In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed."

ROFLMNAO... those FDR 'rights' require that one individual is entitled to the product of another man's labor... thus they are invalid, as the right to pursue fulfillment of one's life requires, by default, that the individual is entitled to the fruits of HIS OWN LABOR... when you are convinced that you're entitled to someone's ELSES fruit... you infringe on his rights... thus you've violated your responsibility to NOT INFRINGE on the rights of another.


Nothing particularly complex here... just sifficiently so, to be beyond your intellectual means.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

IU'd definitely seek to clearly spell out the rights of gun owers.

The way it's written now is clear as mud.

ROFLMNAO... ONLY where one lacks the means to reason. The right comes with the responsibility NOT to misuse the right to infringe upon another's right...

Nothing abstract or unclear about it.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Our greatest president, Franklin D. Roosevelt, already wrote what I can hardly improve on. And out of these economic rights, as I have noted in another thread, grow all the things we most admire and keep us safe. You could tack on the "Golden Rule" for good measure, a universal rule but like all rules....


"The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

The right of every family to a decent home;

The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

The right to a good education."


"All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

America’s own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for our citizens."

Franklin D. Roosevelt: "The Economic Bill of Rights"

Being me does not give me the 'right' to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation; Being American affords me many opportunities for employment. If we choose our rules carefully, I have the man-made right to a fair marketplace.

Being me does not give me the 'right' to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation; Being American affords me many choices and opportunities for earning a living. If we choose our rules carefully, I have the man-made right to a fair and transparent marketplace.

Being me does not give me the 'right' to raise and sell products at a return which will give me and my family a decent living; Being American affords me the opportunity to use my land as I see fit and pray for the right combination of planning, rain and sunshine to profit from my labor. If we choose our rules carefully, I have the man-made right to a fair and open marketplace to buy my supplies as well as to sell my produce.

If we choose our rules carefully, I have the man-made right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

Being me does not give me or my family the 'right' to a decent home; Being American affords me opportunity and choices to make a home of my choosing that is within my means. If we choose our rules carefully, I have the man-made right to fair, transparent and well labeled markets to buy and / or build a home within.

Being me does not give me the 'right' to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health; Being American does not mean you are guaranteed service from any industry, including healthcare. Being American affords me the opportunity to succeed or fail in my own health management. If we choose our rules carefully, I have the man-made right to an open and transparent healthcare marketplace. If we choose our rules carefully, I have the man-made right to pay the healthcare industry directly for care received, without being penalized for not using insurance. Being American affords me the opportunity to help others who may have been born unlucky in health matters.

Being me does not give me the 'right' to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment; Being American affords me the opportunity to participate in various pools of insurance funds against losses, not the least of which is Social Security, mandated because enough of us, at one point in time, agreed that it should be.

Being me does not give me the 'right' to a good education. Being American affords me opportunities for education. If America wants to remain a place of many opportunities, America must choose to provide more opportunities for education than will be taken advantage of, and provide planning for education on a regional basis.

There are no 'rights', only choices and consequences. Life is not fair... it sucks but we, as a species, will reach the stars sooner that way.

Can we relax and make the most of life while following the golden rules? (Notice that there are no golden rights in this life)

-Joe

Wrong Joe... Being you does give you a right to all of those things, where YOU are prepared to do the work which bears such fruit... Being an American, used to mean that you enjoyed the protections from government usurpation of the means to exercise those rights... but as more and more of YOUs... come to depend upon that government, you concede your RIGHT to pursue the fulfillment of your life to that government, for the perceived, but vacuous promises of security and entitlement.