Bigot starts ground zero church: Where's the outrage?

[DiveCon]

wow, was easier than i thought it would be

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/24/nyregion/24greek.html?_r=1

its on the lower part of the story

From your link:

Stephen Sigmund, a spokesman for the Port Authority, said there was never any doubt that the church would be rebuilt. In 2008, the authority agreed to accommodate a 24,000-square-foot church building just east of St. Nicholas’s original location on Cedar Street, and promised $20 million to subsidize construction. But the following year, he said, final negotiations broke down over the precise siting and size of the building.

From the same source for consistency:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/03/nyregion/03trade.html

The church has for several years wanted to build the new St. Nicholas a block northeast of its original home on Cedar Street. But doing so would require trading land with the Port Authority, and an agreement has proven elusive. In the meantime, the church designed a domed marble complex that would be six times the size of its original home

which totally backs up what i claimed, edthemoron
the problem is where and what size they are allowing to be rebuilt

 

[Luissa]

hey, listen up, fuckface.

The ground zero mosque is receiving city permits faster than St. Nicholas church which was destroyed on 9/11 has been trying to get the permit to rebuild for 9 years now. This is "correct" ?

That is not "correct."

The community center is being built in accordance with the zoning laws and building codes, the church is not!!!! The church has had several opportunities to conform to the codes but they refuse to.

please provide proof of this

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/19/nyregion/19church.html

 

[Luissa]

wow, was easier than i thought it would be

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/24/nyregion/24greek.html?_r=1

its on the lower part of the story

From your link:


From the same source for consistency:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/03/nyregion/03trade.html

The church has for several years wanted to build the new St. Nicholas a block northeast of its original home on Cedar Street. But doing so would require trading land with the Port Authority, and an agreement has proven elusive. In the meantime, the church designed a domed marble complex that would be six times the size of its original home

which totally backs up what i claimed, edthemoron
the problem is where and what size they are allowing to be rebuilt

The city was giving them a new site, and money to help them build, plus building a portion themselves to be blast proof. Yeah, they were really standing in their way. It sounds more like the Church was trying to ask for too much.

 

[Zona]

Bigot starts ground zero church: Where's the outrage? - War Room - Salon.com
A pastor who hates Muslims, Mormons and gays will start preaching Sunday. Will mosque opponents speak out?
BY JUSTIN ELLIOTT

A bigoted pastor who has assailed gays and Muslims is launching the "9-11 Christian Center at Ground Zero" a mere two blocks from the World Trade Center site this Sunday, but so far the project hasn't drawn a peep of protest from those who are outraged by the "ground zero mosque."

Pastor Bill Keller of Florida said today he will begin preaching Sunday at the Marriott at 85 West Street (see proximity to ground zero here). A weekly service is planned at the hotel until the $8 million 9/11 Christian Center finds a permanent space. (Fundraising is going well, Keller told Salon today.)

To get a sense of where Keller is coming from, consider his project's website, which calls Islam a religion of "hate and death" whose adherents will go to hell. It also says: "Islam is a wonderful religion... for PEDOPHILES!"

Keller is the same pastor who hosted a birther infomercial that encouraged viewers to send him and a partner donations to advance the birther cause. His Internet ministry explicitly calls President Obama the new Hitler. He calls homosexuality a perversion. And in 2008, he targeted presidential contender Mitt Romney for being Mormon with a campaign called "voting for Satan."

In short, if critics of the Park51 Islamic community center, which is explicitly welcoming of all faiths, truly believe that there is a "zone of solemnity" around ground zero (as Gov. Pat Quinn put it), they should be horrified at Keller's 9/11 Christian Center.

Ditto for those who believe that religious leaders should not build "deliberately provocative" projects around ground zero, as another mosque opponent put it.

Glenn Beck, comments?

 

[DiveCon]

From your link:


From the same source for consistency:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/03/nyregion/03trade.html

which totally backs up what i claimed, edthemoron
the problem is where and what size they are allowing to be rebuilt

The city was giving them a new site, and money to help them build, plus building a portion themselves to be blast proof. Yeah, they were really standing in their way. It sounds more like the Church was trying to ask for too much.

but the portion they were building was for the PA, not the church
that blast zone was for the PA parking garage they want to put UNDER the church


my personal opinion is the church should be rebuilt on the same site, since relics of St Nick were destroyed with the church on 9/11
that makes that location far more valuable than moving to a new location IMO

 

[DiveCon]

Bigot starts ground zero church: Where's the outrage? - War Room - Salon.com
A pastor who hates Muslims, Mormons and gays will start preaching Sunday. Will mosque opponents speak out?
BY JUSTIN ELLIOTT

A bigoted pastor who has assailed gays and Muslims is launching the "9-11 Christian Center at Ground Zero" a mere two blocks from the World Trade Center site this Sunday, but so far the project hasn't drawn a peep of protest from those who are outraged by the "ground zero mosque."

Pastor Bill Keller of Florida said today he will begin preaching Sunday at the Marriott at 85 West Street (see proximity to ground zero here). A weekly service is planned at the hotel until the $8 million 9/11 Christian Center finds a permanent space. (Fundraising is going well, Keller told Salon today.)

To get a sense of where Keller is coming from, consider his project's website, which calls Islam a religion of "hate and death" whose adherents will go to hell. It also says: "Islam is a wonderful religion... for PEDOPHILES!"

Keller is the same pastor who hosted a birther infomercial that encouraged viewers to send him and a partner donations to advance the birther cause. His Internet ministry explicitly calls President Obama the new Hitler. He calls homosexuality a perversion. And in 2008, he targeted presidential contender Mitt Romney for being Mormon with a campaign called "voting for Satan."

In short, if critics of the Park51 Islamic community center, which is explicitly welcoming of all faiths, truly believe that there is a "zone of solemnity" around ground zero (as Gov. Pat Quinn put it), they should be horrified at Keller's 9/11 Christian Center.

Ditto for those who believe that religious leaders should not build "deliberately provocative" projects around ground zero, as another mosque opponent put it.

Glenn Beck, comments?

i highly doubt Beck reads here
but he has an email address on his site

 

[Article 15]

Hallowed ground amirite?

 

[Flopper]

Bigot starts ground zero church: Where's the outrage? - War Room - Salon.com
A pastor who hates Muslims, Mormons and gays will start preaching Sunday. Will mosque opponents speak out?
BY JUSTIN ELLIOTT

A bigoted pastor who has assailed gays and Muslims is launching the "9-11 Christian Center at Ground Zero" a mere two blocks from the World Trade Center site this Sunday, but so far the project hasn't drawn a peep of protest from those who are outraged by the "ground zero mosque."

Pastor Bill Keller of Florida said today he will begin preaching Sunday at the Marriott at 85 West Street (see proximity to ground zero here). A weekly service is planned at the hotel until the $8 million 9/11 Christian Center finds a permanent space. (Fundraising is going well, Keller told Salon today.)

To get a sense of where Keller is coming from, consider his project's website, which calls Islam a religion of "hate and death" whose adherents will go to hell. It also says: "Islam is a wonderful religion... for PEDOPHILES!"

Keller is the same pastor who hosted a birther infomercial that encouraged viewers to send him and a partner donations to advance the birther cause. His Internet ministry explicitly calls President Obama the new Hitler. He calls homosexuality a perversion. And in 2008, he targeted presidential contender Mitt Romney for being Mormon with a campaign called "voting for Satan."

In short, if critics of the Park51 Islamic community center, which is explicitly welcoming of all faiths, truly believe that there is a "zone of solemnity" around ground zero (as Gov. Pat Quinn put it), they should be horrified at Keller's 9/11 Christian Center.

Ditto for those who believe that religious leaders should not build "deliberately provocative" projects around ground zero, as another mosque opponent put it.

They aren't going to protest because many of those that oppose the building of the community center are bigots. They can not strike back at the terrorist so in their mind they are doing the next best thing. They are striking back at Muslims in their community. I feel sorry for them because they are aiding the enemy as surely as if they were sending dollars to support Al Qaeda.

Did this guy, or his followers, or even other adherents of his "religion of peace and tolerance," fly any planes into the WTC at any point?

The terrorist cannot win against America without the support of millions of Muslims within the US. The rhetoric in these threads and many others across the Net are encouraging extremist to take action against Muslims in their community. Maybe this is not the intent but it will certainly be the result. There is nothing the terrorist can do that would benefit their cause more than non-Muslims attacking Muslims and mosques in this country.

There is nothing wrong with arguing about the location of the center, but there is something very wrong about stirring up hate for Muslims who had nothing to do with the terrorist attacks.

 

[Article 15]

Bigot starts ground zero church: Where's the outrage? - War Room - Salon.com
A pastor who hates Muslims, Mormons and gays will start preaching Sunday. Will mosque opponents speak out?
BY JUSTIN ELLIOTT

A bigoted pastor who has assailed gays and Muslims is launching the "9-11 Christian Center at Ground Zero" a mere two blocks from the World Trade Center site this Sunday, but so far the project hasn't drawn a peep of protest from those who are outraged by the "ground zero mosque."

Pastor Bill Keller of Florida said today he will begin preaching Sunday at the Marriott at 85 West Street (see proximity to ground zero here). A weekly service is planned at the hotel until the $8 million 9/11 Christian Center finds a permanent space. (Fundraising is going well, Keller told Salon today.)

To get a sense of where Keller is coming from, consider his project's website, which calls Islam a religion of "hate and death" whose adherents will go to hell. It also says: "Islam is a wonderful religion... for PEDOPHILES!"

Keller is the same pastor who hosted a birther infomercial that encouraged viewers to send him and a partner donations to advance the birther cause. His Internet ministry explicitly calls President Obama the new Hitler. He calls homosexuality a perversion. And in 2008, he targeted presidential contender Mitt Romney for being Mormon with a campaign called "voting for Satan."

In short, if critics of the Park51 Islamic community center, which is explicitly welcoming of all faiths, truly believe that there is a "zone of solemnity" around ground zero (as Gov. Pat Quinn put it), they should be horrified at Keller's 9/11 Christian Center.

Ditto for those who believe that religious leaders should not build "deliberately provocative" projects around ground zero, as another mosque opponent put it.

They aren't going to protest because many of those that oppose the building of the community center are bigots. They can not strike back at the terrorist so in their mind they are doing the next best thing. They are striking back at Muslims in their community. I feel sorry for them because they are aiding the enemy as surely as if they were sending dollars to support Al Qaeda.

Did this guy, or his followers, or even other adherents of his "religion of peace and tolerance," fly any planes into the WTC at any point?

So as long as they aren't Muslims you are fine with this place. Got it.

Now tell me again how it isn't about their religion and really all about location, location, location.

FTR I support this guy's right to build his Christian Center.

 

[edthecynic]

i know
i've read up on this church and the problem is the city and the PA wanting to tell this church HOW they can rebuild and where

wow, was easier than i thought it would be

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/24/nyregion/24greek.html?_r=1

its on the lower part of the story

From your link:

Stephen Sigmund, a spokesman for the Port Authority, said there was never any doubt that the church would be rebuilt. In 2008, the authority agreed to accommodate a 24,000-square-foot church building just east of St. Nicholas’s original location on Cedar Street, and promised $20 million to subsidize construction. But the following year, he said, final negotiations broke down over the precise siting and size of the building.

From the same source for consistency:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/03/nyregion/03trade.html

The church has for several years wanted to build the new St. Nicholas a block northeast of its original home on Cedar Street. But doing so would require trading land with the Port Authority, and an agreement has proven elusive. In the meantime, the church designed a domed marble complex that would be six times the size of its original home

which totally backs up what i claimed, edthemoron
the problem is where and what size they are allowing to be rebuilt

It totally backs what I said, they were required to build within code and they exceeded code. The "HOW" you refer to is, of course, the building code. The community center was within code and the church was not. The church was not singled out because it was a church, as the bigots imply, the church was not within code.

 

[DiveCon]

i know
i've read up on this church and the problem is the city and the PA wanting to tell this church HOW they can rebuild and where

From your link:



From the same source for consistency:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/03/nyregion/03trade.html

which totally backs up what i claimed, edthemoron
the problem is where and what size they are allowing to be rebuilt

It totally backs what I said, they were required to build within code and they exceeded code. The "HOW" you refer to is, of course, the building code. The community center was within code and the church was not. The church was not singled out because it was a church, as the bigots imply, the church was not within code.

the church is within code, moron

 

[edthecynic]

i know
i've read up on this church and the problem is the city and the PA wanting to tell this church HOW they can rebuild and where

which totally backs up what i claimed, edthemoron
the problem is where and what size they are allowing to be rebuilt

It totally backs what I said, they were required to build within code and they exceeded code. The "HOW" you refer to is, of course, the building code. The community center was within code and the church was not. The church was not singled out because it was a church, as the bigots imply, the church was not within code.

the church is within code, moron

"please provide proof of this"

 

[DiveCon]

It totally backs what I said, they were required to build within code and they exceeded code. The "HOW" you refer to is, of course, the building code. The community center was within code and the church was not. The church was not singled out because it was a church, as the bigots imply, the church was not within code.

the church is within code, moron

"please provide proof of this"

its in the links already provided
no where does it say there were code violations

 

[edthecynic]

the church is within code, moron

"please provide proof of this"

its in the links already provided
no where does it say there were code violations

What do you think SIZE means????????
Please don't pretend to be so STUPID that you don't know building codes have limits on size!

 

[DiveCon]

"please provide proof of this"

its in the links already provided
no where does it say there were code violations

What do you think SIZE means????????
Please don't pretend to be so STUPID that you don't know building codes have limits on size!

they are not exceeding the building code on size moron
other building there are MUCH larger and so is the proposed Islamic center/mosque

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Refresh my memory, was it Christians who flew passenger-laden planes into the towers?

no..but tim mcviegh blew up a building so it is ok.....wait for it.....

Mcviegh wasn't a Christian.

 

[edthecynic]

its in the links already provided
no where does it say there were code violations

What do you think SIZE means????????
Please don't pretend to be so STUPID that you don't know building codes have limits on size!

they are not exceeding the building code on size moron
other building there are MUCH larger and so is the proposed Islamic center/mosque

The church rejected the new site and $60 million in public money. They are free to rebuild on the old site but the church says the site is too small, so obviously there are some size problems with the building code.

Ground Zero Greek Orthodox Church: St Nicholas Waits For New Life - BCNN1

Six months later, the Port Authority said negotiations ended because St. Nicholas demanded too much money and approval power over a vehicle security center beneath the sites. Port Authority spokesman Stephen Sigmund said the church can return to its original location.

"In 2009, we made our final offer, which again included up to $60 million in public money, and told St. Nicholas Orthodox Church that the World Trade Center could not be delayed over this issue," he said in a written statement. "They rejected that offer."


The church is holding firm to the Liberty Street swap plan, and says its old site is unacceptable -- it's too close to the proposed vehicle security center's garage doors, and St. Nicholas needs more space for the visitors to the 9/11 memorial and thousands of new residents in the neighborhood.

The new 130 Liberty Street site could accommodate a church six times bigger than the old one, which was open only twice a week and didn't offer any children's programs.

 

[DiveCon]

What do you think SIZE means????????
Please don't pretend to be so STUPID that you don't know building codes have limits on size!

they are not exceeding the building code on size moron
other building there are MUCH larger and so is the proposed Islamic center/mosque

The church rejected the new site and $60 million in public money. They are free to rebuild on the old site but the church says the site is too small, so obviously there are some size problems with the building code.

Ground Zero Greek Orthodox Church: St Nicholas Waits For New Life - BCNN1

Six months later, the Port Authority said negotiations ended because St. Nicholas demanded too much money and approval power over a vehicle security center beneath the sites. Port Authority spokesman Stephen Sigmund said the church can return to its original location.

"In 2009, we made our final offer, which again included up to $60 million in public money, and told St. Nicholas Orthodox Church that the World Trade Center could not be delayed over this issue," he said in a written statement. "They rejected that offer."


The church is holding firm to the Liberty Street swap plan, and says its old site is unacceptable -- it's too close to the proposed vehicle security center's garage doors, and St. Nicholas needs more space for the visitors to the 9/11 memorial and thousands of new residents in the neighborhood.

The new 130 Liberty Street site could accommodate a church six times bigger than the old one, which was open only twice a week and didn't offer any children's programs.

the $60 million is to build the blast sheild needed for the PA parking structure under the proposed new church
they were NOT giving the church $60 m

 

[Smartt33]

Bigot starts ground zero church: Where's the outrage? - War Room - Salon.com
A pastor who hates Muslims, Mormons and gays will start preaching Sunday. Will mosque opponents speak out?
BY JUSTIN ELLIOTT

A bigoted pastor who has assailed gays and Muslims is launching the "9-11 Christian Center at Ground Zero" a mere two blocks from the World Trade Center site this Sunday, but so far the project hasn't drawn a peep of protest from those who are outraged by the "ground zero mosque."

Pastor Bill Keller of Florida said today he will begin preaching Sunday at the Marriott at 85 West Street (see proximity to ground zero here). A weekly service is planned at the hotel until the $8 million 9/11 Christian Center finds a permanent space. (Fundraising is going well, Keller told Salon today.)

To get a sense of where Keller is coming from, consider his project's website, which calls Islam a religion of "hate and death" whose adherents will go to hell. It also says: "Islam is a wonderful religion... for PEDOPHILES!"

Keller is the same pastor who hosted a birther infomercial that encouraged viewers to send him and a partner donations to advance the birther cause. His Internet ministry explicitly calls President Obama the new Hitler. He calls homosexuality a perversion. And in 2008, he targeted presidential contender Mitt Romney for being Mormon with a campaign called "voting for Satan."

In short, if critics of the Park51 Islamic community center, which is explicitly welcoming of all faiths, truly believe that there is a "zone of solemnity" around ground zero (as Gov. Pat Quinn put it), they should be horrified at Keller's 9/11 Christian Center.

Ditto for those who believe that religious leaders should not build "deliberately provocative" projects around ground zero, as another mosque opponent put it.

So, what you are saying is that since you support the Mosque near ground zero, and you are angry with the protesters, and anyone against it, you you want everyone to shut ujp around there?

 

[edthecynic]

they are not exceeding the building code on size moron
other building there are MUCH larger and so is the proposed Islamic center/mosque

The church rejected the new site and $60 million in public money. They are free to rebuild on the old site but the church says the site is too small, so obviously there are some size problems with the building code.

Ground Zero Greek Orthodox Church: St Nicholas Waits For New Life - BCNN1

Six months later, the Port Authority said negotiations ended because St. Nicholas demanded too much money and approval power over a vehicle security center beneath the sites. Port Authority spokesman Stephen Sigmund said the church can return to its original location.

"In 2009, we made our final offer, which again included up to $60 million in public money, and told St. Nicholas Orthodox Church that the World Trade Center could not be delayed over this issue," he said in a written statement. "They rejected that offer."


The church is holding firm to the Liberty Street swap plan, and says its old site is unacceptable -- it's too close to the proposed vehicle security center's garage doors, and St. Nicholas needs more space for the visitors to the 9/11 memorial and thousands of new residents in the neighborhood.

The new 130 Liberty Street site could accommodate a church six times bigger than the old one, which was open only twice a week and didn't offer any children's programs.

the $60 million is to build the blast sheild needed for the PA parking structure under the proposed new church
they were NOT giving the church $60 m

"please provide proof of this"